₦airaland Forum

Ojuntana:
But why should a munafiq who reads his quran where Allah refers to itself as "We" ask questions about the plurality of God in another religion?
Allah is "We" like demons called legion in the Bible. "We" is first person plural.
How does the munafiq explain this?

StillDtruth:
I repeat, trinity is born out of the observation that 3 Great Authorities exercise Rule over us.

So, whether trinity, duality or unity, it really does not matter.

But the bottomline of what we see is the principle of Separation of Powers at play.

Did you see Jesus mention The Holy Spirit as an Authority? No

So does that not tell you where The Holy Spirit is coming from?

As you see in Exodus and in John 14:26 The Holy Spirit does not come unless, sent, therefore you see He is under Authority and has a very special Office and Power He Holds!

Do you not know the meaning of an illustration? Obviously, your reasonability quotient for the day is exhausted and your blasphemous madness is returning because you can clearly see that you are going to hellfire.

Petalss:
Let us set aside the Islamic perspective, as an Arab Christian, what should I traditionally call God in my language?

TenQ:
Was this the lie you were fed or that Allah is actually a unification of Deitys or what do you think AHAD means?

Narrated Anas:
When 'Abdullah bin Salam heard the arrival of the Prophet at Medina, he came to him and said, "I am going to ask you about three things WHICH NOBODY KNOWS EXCEPT A PROPHET: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble ITS MATERNAL UNCLE?" Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel has just now told me of their answers." 'Abdullah said, "He (i.e. Gabriel), from amongst all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews." Allah's Apostle said,

"The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west;

the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver.

As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah."

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 546)

Qasim6:
Keep running helter skelter.

Even the Jews you Christians claim you worship the same YHWH with. They disagree with you on the concept of God.

Their view on YHWH is closer to our view on Allah
Their view on God as echad is the same as our view of ahad

So where do you Christians get your own YHWH and your echad (compound one) from? from Iblis?

TenQ:
Is it true that the name of the Allah of the Muslim Arabs is Allah?

The name of the Allah of the Christian Arab is not Allah but YHWH!

Here you are lost!

Ojuntana:
The Qur'an was written in Arabic not English. The use of We in English royalty was to recognise the sovereignty of the English people residing in its royalty. It could also be referred to as "We(England) are not amused".
The fallacy in your argument is drawing equivalence between Arabic personification and English when both are not known to share any common linguistic or cultural bond.
Is there any example of an Arab sovereign referring to itself as We before Allah in the Qur'an?
Same Allah sometimes referred to itself as I when it suited it. As a god that's vehemently sought to establish its monotheistic value, would it not have been better to stick to I instead of We?
The God of the Jews never used plural to refer himself in original Greek and Hebrew. If Allah is same as the Jewish God Yahweh, why did he now go and cause confusion in Arabic?

Petalss:
Wow, just wow. It seems you're a linguistic scholar to determine which languages are permitted to use the Majestic Pronoun. So, the English language can have the Majestic Plural 'We,' but the Arabic language cannot?

When the Queen was talking, she was not referencing the whole of England, she was speaking for herself.

Examples of "We" in the Quran:

"We created the heavens and the earth..." (Quran 25:2)
"We sent Noah to his people..." (Quran 7:59)
"We gave Moses the Book..." (Quran 2:87)

Examples of "I" in the Quran:

"I am Allah, there is no god but Me..." (Quran 20:14)
"I created you from a single soul..." (Quran 39:6)
"I am the One who forgives..." (Quran 7:155)

Thus, Allah uses both "We" and "I" based on the context to express different aspects of His relationship with creation. The use of "We" highlights His majesty and power, while "I" emphasizes a direct, personal connection.

TenQ:
Have you noticed that the God of Abraham, Isaac , Moses and David doesn't speak in this manner?

Check the Taurat, Zabur and Injeel and show if God speaks like Allah in the Qur'an

Petalss:
Let us set aside the Islamic perspective, as an Arab Christian, what should I traditionally call God in my language?

AntiChristian:
Allah says He is one!

He begets not nor is He begotten!

So "We" and "Us" is for Respect!

Yorubas too use it for elders!

Ojuntana:
Eureka!!
There you have it. Bless your soul. The Arabic Allah in Islam is a counterfeit of the Jewish God.
You're enlightened

TenQ:
Is it true that the name of the Allah of the Muslim Arabs is Allah?

The name of the Allah of the Christian Arab is not Allah but YHWH!

Here you are lost!

Ojuntana:
Again, you have to show the Arabs using the "majestic plural" as you put it. English and Arabic are not linguistically nor culturally similar so you can't use one to explain the other except you imply it is English translators that introduced the first person plural in describing Allah.

Qasim6:
Confusion in enemies camp

Unfortunately for u and Tenq the Jews don't believe you have the same God as them.

So do you guys worship a God that is counterfeit of the Jewish God?

Kingsempires:
Arab Christain call God ALLAH

Ojuntana:
I am not in debate with Jews. The Jews accept the Old Testament as part of Torah. Their debate is about Jesus as a son of God which is not new. The Jews do not accept the Qur'an as writing about their God even though Muhammad copied so many Jewish figures into it.

Petalss:
While Arab Christians embrace the use of the Arabic language to refer to God as 'Allah', some Nigerian Christians, like Ten Q, disagree with this practice.

It's essential to recognize that one's dislike or criticism of Islam as a religion should not be conflated with the Arabic language itself. Arabic is a neutral language, a tool for communication, and its use should not be rejected solely because of its association with a particular religion.

In fact, many Arabic-speaking Christians have used the term 'Allah' to refer to God for centuries, highlighting the language's versatility and adaptability across different cultures and faiths.

Petalss:
1. Sultan Saladin (Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn al-Ayyūbi) In one of his letters, Sultan Saladin, a notable figure in Islamic and Arab history, used the majestic plural to refer to himself when addressing his officials:"لقد أمرنا بعناية الله ورعايته، أن يُنصر الإسلام، وتبقى راياته مرفوعة"
("We have commanded, by the grace and care of God, that Islam be victorious, and that its banners remain raised high".In this letter, Saladin uses "We" ("نحن" to refer to himself, though he is a single person. The use of the majestic plural is a reflection of his authority and the high station he occupies as a leader.

2. King Hussein of Jordan Modern Arab leaders also use this convention. King Hussein of Jordan, in many of his official speeches, used "We" to refer to himself as the head of state. For instance, in one of his speeches, he said:"نحن ملتزمون بتحقيق السلام العادل والشامل في المنطقة"
("We are committed to achieving a just and comprehensive peace in the region".Here, "We" represents King Hussein as the singular speaker but expresses his authority as the sovereign of Jordan.

3. Caliph Harun al-Rashid (Abbasid Caliphate) Harun al-Rashid, the famous Abbasid caliph, also used the majestic plural in correspondence. One of his letters reads:"لقد أمرنا ببناء هذه المدينة العظيمة، لتكون شاهداً على حضارتنا"
("We have commanded the building of this great city, to stand as a testament to our civilization".In this case, Harun al-Rashid uses "We" to denote his status as a caliph, though the decision and command were made by him alone.

Qasim6:
Well, most Jews will tell you they worship the same God as the Muslims, and we believe our God revealed the Qur'an. What does that tell you?

I am not sure we are ever going to find a Jew that will accept they worship the same God as the Christian.

So are you Christians worshipping a counterfeit of the Jewish God?

Narrated Anas:
When 'Abdullah bin Salam heard the arrival of the Prophet at Medina, he came to him and said, "I am going to ask you about three things WHICH NOBODY KNOWS EXCEPT A PROPHET: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble ITS MATERNAL UNCLE?" Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel has just now told me of their answers." 'Abdullah said, "He (i.e. Gabriel), from amongst all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews." Allah's Apostle said,

"The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west;

the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver.

As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah."

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 546)

Ojuntana:
1. All these are post-Islam Arab leaders who ruled as Islamic leaders. Their leanings are Islamic in nature just as we have sultan in sokoto today ruling as an islamic leader. You will be better served taking your examples from the pre-Islamic Arabia.

2. There's no context to show that they referred individually to themselves and not their council or Emirate. Like I already told you, the English use it because their royal lines are embodiment of their sovereignty. Is an islamic ruler sovereign? I think not since Allah is the sovereign in an islamic Emirate. You're free to correct me if I'm wrong.

3. No source for your quotes.

4. Try harder!!

Petalss:
It's simple, you have issue with the language. Research for yourself if the Arabic language has the Majestic Pronoun ’We'

Kingsempires:
I dey watch religion s video well well. There is a Egyptian Christain I use to follow on TikTok he said God is Allah in Arabic language. Most Arab Christain video I use to watch is Allah that they use to call God

Ojuntana:
You claimed. Prove it!!

Petalss:
Thank you for the confirmation.

AntiChristian:
Who is defining it? Show us where it is defined explicitly?



Saying that YHWH is the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit has limitations, including:

Oversimplification: It reduces the complexity of the Trinity, obscuring the distinct roles of each person.
Misunderstanding Personhood: It conflates the individuality of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, undermining their unique identities.
Biblical Context: It neglects the distinct roles outlined in Scripture, misrepresenting their interactions.
Historical Theology: It diverges from traditional Christian creeds that affirm the co-equality and co-eternity of the three persons.

God cannot die! YHWH the word died! If all of them are co-equal Jesus won't be acting like a messenger to the father!

Holding conversations with humans is different from existing as three different persons with different identities and persons! Stop the confusion!



Here are the limitations this poses!
1. You oversimplified God to be just three reversible identities like steam, water and Ice! The triple point simplifies the complex nature of the Trinity by reducing it to three states of the same substance, rather than three distinct persons coexisting in one divine essence.

2. Your Water analogy has no Personhood. While it clear the father is not equal to the son while the son is not equal to the spirit. They all have different roles according to your Bible! Steam = Water = Ice!

3. Each of your Trinitarian Gods have different roles which your water analogy cannot depict!

4. And you mentioning the triple point of water represents a static case unlike the Trinitarian case that is dynamic involving continuous interactions among the parts! For example, Jesus said by himself he can do nothing! In triple point, Is water dependent on Ice to exist in that state?



1. This presents trinity as though the components Gods exist as one entity! Each of the human body component never exists on its own to make a complete human! They must exist together. Is this same for the trinity? When Jesus died was his father still God?

2. It also presents us with hierarchical wahala. The body, Spirit and Soul are not co-equal! Are your Gods similar?

3. The state of a human body, soul and spirit can change over time! Does the trinity change likewise?

4. The analogy does not adequately capture the relational dynamics among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as the human components do not interact in the same profound way that the divine persons do.

Ojuntana:
That's a lie
Most Jews from even the time of Muhammad see him as a fake prophet. The Jews claim exclusivity in the aspect of worship and will never accept any non- Jew as a prophet. Besides, Muhammad was notorious for failing the simple test given to him to prove the genuiness of his claims to prophethood as shown in the hadith below. Judge for yourself!!

Ojuntana:
Jews call their God Yahweh same as Christians. Jews only disagree with the status of Jesus. They even accept the existence of the Spirit of God!! Do you Muslims accept the spirit of God exists?

Petalss:
Thank you for the confirmation.

Kingsempires:
that is nothing but the truth

Ojuntana:
It is the lie you were fed that's under discussion here.
The major lie that Muhammad is a prophet. Judge for yourself if Muhammad passed the test of a prophet which he willingly took himself from the hadith below:


Ignoring the first two answers as they are futuristic and thus not verifiable, and using the third answer given by Muhammad, do you think he passed the test of prophethood which he took or he failed?

Petalss:
Yeah, I am lost.

I'm feeling confused. You mentioned that Arab Christians refer to God as YHWH, but I’ve heard differently from Arab Christians themselves. It seems like there’s a contradiction between what you said and what they believe. I’m not sure who is mistaken here, but I’d like to understand the truth.

TenQ:
I guess you are not educated about the Arab Christians.

Again,
The Name of the Allah of the Arab Christians is YHWH!


Ask any Muslim if any of the 99 names of Allah is YHWH?
The name of the Allah of the Arab Muslims is Allah!