₦airaland Forum

adeniyi65:
■ I don't know what you are trying to draw with the two references from OT. OT or these particular references don't against slavery in anyway. Rather, it was following the trend of slavery that had been happening before then till that moment. It's trying to have both the slave owners and the slaves as "believers". A process where the slave Christians will accept their tormentors to practice the religion together. We wouldn't disclaim the fact that OT goes soft on Slavery, but it doesn't see Slavery as Sin which is a serious sin across all nations' constitutions today. If OT highlights list of things we should stop doing that they are sin; why is slavery missing? These sins are man-made just as slavery. Why not highlighting slavery as well? Part of the sins that Bible against are these: adultery, backbiting, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred. Why is slavery not part of the sins that OT against? The answer is clear. God is ok with it(slavery).

Sins as listed in the Law of Moses are not man-made ideas as you would like to console yourself in thinking. They are rather ideas which the God of Israel opposed and as such made rules against in the land of Israel, particularly for those born of the blood of Jacob. For example, in the land of Israel, the constitution reads that those born of the blood of Jacob were not to blaspheme the name of the God of Israel — there does not seem an extension of the same towards those of foreign descent who were found in that same land.

2. Slavery isn't a sin; the same God commands His followers to submit to and obey Him — what slaves do — as their one and only master. He has His God-ordained slavery separate from that ordained by men over their selves. And those enslaved by Him enjoy benefits greater than those who do not in the land of Israel, according to reports in the book. So, you are in error here attempting to argue that since your human exposure to the idea of slavery is of the barbaric wickedness of men, therefore all slavery is wrong.

Lucifyre:
Because its myth and fiction mixed with a dose of reality of the times they were written in, same as the useless quaran.

Yeah! Stop comparing your life.

adeniyi65:
But have you forgotten that this OT consists most of the references for for 21st century Christians collecting and giving tithes. You can't neglect part of a book and choose others to suit your need.

A
She also forgot the OT bore the 10 commandments. So why are Christians denigrating the OT

StillDtruth:
Do you not already beat people under your control whether employees, children or slaves? Are you punished for beating them even today?

If you were indeed reasonable as you try to sound then you would have seen other commandments prohibiting slavery eg

1) Leviticus 19:18 "Thou shall not steal (whether persons or things. Exodus 20:15/17 expanded its scope) neither deal falsely".

It is dealing falsely to take a houseboy/girl for service which is what you told their lawful Masters (parents) only for you to turn them to slaves in your house and beating and evil treating them.

2) Leviticus 25:17 "Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:"

3) Exodus 23:9 "Thou shalt not oppress a stranger:

4) Exodus 20:21 "Thou shalt neither vex a stranger nor oppress him:

5) Exodus 20:22 "ye shall not afflict ...a fatherless child".

6) Exodus 23:2 "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil:"

7) Exodus 23:6 "Thou shalt not wrest the judgement of thy poor in his cause"

Commandments which came after the whole world was evil and people like you committed every wickedness under the sun including slavery and after this Commandslavery began to drop.and change from what it used to be to another face we see today. And the Commandments are still there but people continue to be evil

Did you read where Yahweh specifically told slaves to be subservient. He also told them in Ephesians to obey their masters. HE SPECIFICALLY SAID ISRAELITES SHOULD TAKE SLAVES FROM THEIR NEIGHBORS
So stop talking rubbish

NNTR:
To start with and with all due respect, it is disingenuous and libellous to affirm that God ordains slavery, that was already instituted and establish, prior to Him coming on board to sanitise, humanise and moralise it with reforms

Slavery already was a reality in the system (i.e. Genesis 9: 20-27, has the first mention of slave/slavery in the bible) before the emergence of God's slavery reforms

If you are married, you know that one dont neccesarily cut off ones privates because of not wanting to traumatise ones kids from the shock of seeing ones little man, aka third leg, sometimes pka JT or John Thomas, but one simply covers up, in their presence, if one is au naturale (i.e. in the nude), so your ill advice, to those in charge of primary education to ban OT from the reach of primary school pupils, can be dismissed off as pure balderdash.

The Bible is not a prejudicial or discriminatory book, it is part, a history book, educational book, inspirational book et cetera, that lays out facts and absolute truths as happened

Take note that according to 2 Timothy 3:16:
'All Scripture is God-breathed [given by divine inspiration] and is profitable for instruction,
for conviction [of sin], for correction [of error and restoration to obedience],
for training in righteousness
[learning to live in conformity to God’s will, both publicly and privately
—behaving honorably with personal integrity and moral courage];'

The bible unapologetically presents the good, the bad, the ugly and the gory in all their glories

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Another bullshit.
Wasn't idol worship, homosexuality etc rife in the old testament? So why did Yahweh specifically tell Israelites not do all those but somehow forgot to tell them not to be slavers. Also he specifically said they should take slaves from their neighbors. So what are you defending?

AntiChristian:
Yeah! Stop comparing your life.

Doesn't change the quran been a dumber and dafter repackaged version of the bible. Which is funny as you often ridicule and point out inconsistencies in the bible when its just 2 sides of the same dirty coin, with the quran been nastier and dirtier. Delusional man pointing out others for having a diffrent kind of delusion, isn't that ironic and funny. Go sit down in a corner joor.

jaephoenix:
A
She also forgot the OT bore the 10 commandments. So why are Christians denigrating the OT

Nah so we see am o. Choosing what to use and believe.

jaephoenix:
Another bullshit.

Never mind, when the sky falls, you'll wish you have this good bullshit to take cover under

jaephoenix:
Wasn't idol worship, homosexuality etc rife in the old testament?

Your off topic question goes beyond the scope of the thread and the limits of its 'God Ordains Slavery' title

jaephoenix:
So why did Yahweh specifically tell Israelites not do all those but somehow forgot to tell them not to be slavers.

Mind you, God doesnt forget. God's never being in the forgetfulness business

jaephoenix:
Also he specifically said they should take slaves from their neighbors.

Response follows immediately below

jaephoenix:
So what are you defending?

Refuting the 'God Ordains Slavery' falsehood

As Ive earlier advanced slavery, serfdom and bond-servitude were all already instituted and established prevailing social chaos or disorders prior to God coming on board to sanitise, humanise and moralise with specified reforms, so what's that difficult in giving credit where credit is due

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

jaephoenix:
Did you read where Yahweh specifically told slaves to be subservient. He also told them in Ephesians to obey their masters. HE SPECIFICALLY SAID ISRAELITES SHOULD TAKE SLAVES FROM THEIR NEIGHBORS
So stop talking rubbish

He said servants obey your masters exactly what people all over the world.already say, so.you are talking rubbish.

NNTR:
Never mind, when the sky falls, you'll wish you have this good bullshit to take cover under

Your off topic question goes beyond the scope of the thread and the limits of its 'God Ordains Slavery' title

Mind you, God doesnt forget. God's never being in the forgetfulness business

Response follows immediately below

Refuting the 'God Ordains Slavery' falsehood

As Ive earlier advanced slavery, serfdom and bond-servitude were all already instituted and established prevailing social chaos or disorders prior to God coming on board to sanitise, humanise and moralise with specified reforms, so what's that difficult in giving credit where credit is due

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Please read before replying. I specifically told you vices that were engrained and institutionalized which Yahweh specifically gave orders to prohibit. I told you homosexuality, idolizing etc were in place. Did Yahweh give specific laws against them? Yes. So why didn't he do the same for slavery.
This time slowly read my question before you give the answer your pastor brainwashed into your brain

StillDtruth:
He said servants obey your masters exactly what people all over the world.already say, so.you are talking rubbish.

He said slaves.
I also see you ignored the part i said Yahweh told Israelites to raid their neighbors for slaves

adeniyi65:
Nah so we see am o. Choosing what to use and believe.

Cherry-picking is a common vice for Christians. They pick out the goody stuffs in the OT like creation, 10 commandments, tithing etc, then ignore the baddies. If you ask why the ignore the baddies they tell you "Oh, its the OT, they contain the old order blah blah blah"

jaephoenix:
He said slaves.
I also see you ignored the part i said Yahweh told Israelites to raid their neighbors for slaves

He said servants and God did not say raid neighbors for slaves stop repeating yourself like a mad person.

jaephoenix:
■ Cherry-picking is a common vice for Christians. They pick out the goody stuffs in the OT like creation, 10 commandments, tithing etc, then ignore the baddies. If you ask why the ignore the baddies they tell you "Oh, its the OT, they contain the old order blah blah blah"

indeed!

jaephoenix:
Please read before replying

You should take a leaf from your 'Please read before replying' book and copy from it

jaephoenix:
I specifically told you vices that were engrained and institutionalized which Yahweh specifically gave orders to prohibit. I told you homosexuality, idolizing etc were in place.

I explicitly told you that you are going beyond the scope of the thread and the limits of its 'God Ordains Slavery' title heading. What part of that dont you get at all.Hmm?

jaephoenix:
Did Yahweh give specific laws against them? Yes ...

Read my lips, I am not going to be drawn or be distracted by your nonsensical and ignorant wrangle.
If you still want to continue with your lopsided argument, simply limit it to slavery, serfdom and bond-servitude, well thats if you know what the differences and distinctions are between the trio

jaephoenix:
... So why didn't he do the same for slavery.

God came on board to sanitise, humanise and moralise with specified and unequivocally undisputed reforms

jaephoenix:
This time slowly read my question before you give the answer your pastor brainwashed into your brain

Making a statement of this kind and make it like in this manner, betrays how a feeble, shallow person who lacks depth you are

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

adeniyi65:
Thank the abolitionist who helped stopped slavery, who knows wether today you might be in sugarcane farm in the Caribbean working helplessly without wage but crumbs of cheese to your mouth and scourge at your back.

Let me ask 2 simple questions. If U don't know, do some research.


1. U admitted abolitionist ended slavery. Who are they? What religion do they follow? What gave them the inspiration to end slavery? Which book convinced them that slavery is wrong?

2. If U claim the Europeans used the bible to justify enslavement of black people. Why did the slave masters give a different bible to the slaves.
How come the bible used by slaves is different from that of the master.
Since bible condone slavery, why didn't both slave and his master read from the same bible.
How come slaves in that era had a different bible.

SIRTee15:
Let me ask 2 simple questions. If U don't know, do some research.


1. U admitted abolitionist ended slavery. Who are they? What religion do they follow? What gave them the inspiration to end slavery? Which book convinced them that slavery is wrong?

People's instinct, wise thinkers thought of the need to end it because it's barbaric. There's no Bible verse that inspires slave abolition, instead, NT only advises slaves to submit to their slave masters. Bible only favors White supremacists that refused to stop slavery in America after Abraham Lincoln proclamation abolishing slavery. They have series of references not to stop it

SIRTee15:
2. If U claim the Europeans used the bible to justify enslavement of black people. Why did the slave masters give a different bible to the slaves.
How come the bible used by slaves is different from that of the master.
Since bible condone slavery, why didn't both slave and his master read from the same bible.
How come slaves in that era had a different bible.

Your number 2 question is not clear.the Bible in the market is not restrict for either slave masters alone or the slaves alone. Anyone can choose his choice translation. But I will explain a little thing here. Instinct and way of reasoning is different in all men. So in the slavery years, this made some read bible and appreciate its softness on slavery while others reasoned and frown at it. Those Christians who frown at slavery out of their reasoning for a just world for every man are the ones who will find verses on God's love for all to seek for equality against slavery while set asiding the pro slavery aspect of the Bible just as today Christians choose tithe from OT and abandon those that don't go with their system.

adeniyi65:
People's instinct, wise thinkers thought of the need to end it because it's barbaric. There's no Bible verse that inspires slave abolition, instead, NT only advises slaves to submit to their slave masters. Bible only favors White supremacists that refused to stop slavery in America after Abraham Lincoln proclamation abolishing slavery. They have series of references not to stop it


Your number 2 question is not clear.the Bible in the market is not restrict for either slave masters alone or the slaves alone. Anyone can choose his choice translation. But I will explain a little thing here. Instinct and way of reasoning is different in all men. So in the slavery years, this made some read bible and appreciate its softness on slavery while others reasoned and frown at it. Those Christians who frown at slavery out of their reasoning for a just world for every man are the ones who will find verses on God's love for all to seek for equality against slavery while set asiding the pro slavery aspect of the Bible just as today Christians choose tithe from OT and abandon those that don't go with their system.

With due respect. I am not interested in your opinion.
My questions are based on facts and I want factual response not opinionated ones.

Tell me the names of the abolitionists. I want their names, who are they, what do they believe in. What book inspired them to fight against slavery.
Except U are here with other sinister or impure motives, and not truth seeker....U would answer my questions with sincerity.

Your response to number 2 shows U need to do some reading on slavery.
So U think a slave will go to open market and buy a bible? From who, who will sell a book to a slave. In case U don't know, it's a crime for a slave to read except approved by his masters.
Slaves read the bible given to them by their Masters.

So why did slave Masters give a different bible to their slaves if the book approved of slavery.


Since U mentioned Abraham Lincoln, let me share with U what he thinks of the bible.

“Amazing Grace! How sweet the sound
that saved a wretch/wreck like me.
I once was lost, but now am found
was blind, but now I see.”
- Hymn of John Newton,
former slave owner, reformed slave owner,
regenerated soul aka born again or born of the Spirit even born from on high

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

SIRTee15:
With due respect. I am not interested in your opinion.
My questions are based on facts and I want factual response not opinionated ones.

Tell me the names of the abolitionists. I want their names, who are they, what do they believe in. What book inspired them to fight against slavery.
Except U are here with other sinister or impure motives, and not truth seeker....U would answer my questions with sincerity.

Your response to number 2 shows U need to do some reading on slavery.
So U think a slave will go to open market and buy a bible? From who, who will sell a book to a slave. In case U don't know, it's a crime for a slave to read except approved by his masters.
Slaves read the bible given to them by their Masters.

So why did slave Masters give a different bible to their slaves if the book approved of slavery.


Since U mentioned Abraham Lincoln, let me share with U what he thinks of the bible.

I still remain a Truth seeker and if I'm to see anything truthful correlative with the history of the past or that can be useful for the future, I have no hidden agenda than to accept it with open hands. I'm not dogmatic on holding tight to opinion when it has been proven wrong. I'm just a problem solver.





Back to the conversation. Majority of European inhabitants are Christians. So it's understandable if every abolitionist that shows up there practice Christianity. Significant numbers of inhabitants in middle East practice Islam. So it's clearly understandable if their abolitionists are Muslims because abolition of slavery came in different time at different part of the world. So is other part of Asia who neither practice Islam nor Christianity. Such is inhabitants of China who are Buddhists excluding British colony of India.





Therefore to answer that the religion of the abolitionists is the major tool that influence abolitionism is false, that verdict should be absolutely seen as weak. It's because, if Bible influenced abolitionists of Christian settlements/nations, what influenced the abolitionist of Islamic settlement/nations. What influenced the abolitionists of Buddhism settlement/nations.




I believe if you are sincerely with your discussion as well, you should be able to analyze the above paragraph for justification that, human across all settlements were the ones who reasoned that the horrible use of fellow men like them in slavery should stop, which happened to them at different time.



I will like to add this to that answer. In history of Africa slavery. There is an African settlement which forbidded slavery even before abolitionism took place. They hate it with all passion. To avoid raid into their settlement, they builded tick solid wall around their settlement, neither did they partake in slave trade within their settlement. Slave raiders still abduct their people when they go outside the wall to farm. For that reason, residents of the settlement still builded second enclosure wall to cover their farm making two round circle wall shielding the people while one shielded their farm. This people knew nothing about Christianity as at then. Should we now say Christianity is what influenced them when they don't know or practice it? It's clearly their reasoning. Reasoning to distance themselves from barbaric act even when God is indifferent to slavery far away Israel. what
Religionists believe is that we need a kind of holy book to guide us because we are of flesh and to show us right from wrong. I believe animals that don't have human reasoning capability should be the one to need a guide book to know right from wrong(I don't mean to be rude) human are naturally endowed with intelligence that can create problems for their own advantage and solve problems (either man made or natural disaster) to their own advantage as well.



I think there is no need of mentioning names of abolitionists of Christian settlements again with that clear explanation.but to prove you are right at where you said slaves are not allowed to read. Yes that's how it is. I have come across the book of notable American and British abolitionist like Booker T. Washington. Fredrick Douglas and Olaudah Equiano(that tells you I have been a long reader on slavery). They all claimed that not reading Bible is prohibited alone but all slaves were prohibited from learning how to read and write for they know that literacy opens way for the seeking of knowledge, and the seeking of knowledge can make the slaves rebellious against them one day which actually happened eventually.

MaxInDHouse:
SLAVERY began the very moment Adam and Eve chose to become Gods from that day ...

This is so not true! Slavery in the Bible began with the enslavement of Adam and Eve.

It is very obvious that Adam and Eve who were created from the dust of the earth, and a rib, and told not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, were naked ignorant slaves in the Garden of Eden, which they tended for those created in the Image of God who did eat "every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it" including the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil so they would know how to rule and subdue and multiply.

Eve, thankfully, used her own senses (men can't accept that a woman can have a brain, so they had to introduce a fake talking serpent!), to test if it is true that she would surely die if she ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, only to find she did not die, but gained wisdom and her eyes opened and she freed herself and Adam from slavery from whence they went on to populare the earth, we read, and live almost 1000 years.

The moral of the story is, ignorant people are slaves to those who nourish themselves with knowledge, so nourish yourself with knowledge if you don't want to be a slave.

'Nourish yourself with knowledge' is precisely what is meant by "accept Jesus Christ into your life", because, as is known, one must reduce one's ignorance by nourishing oneself with the ability to read in order to get to know Jesus, and then must one seek understanding and eventually wisdom which prolongs life.

NNTR:
“Amazing Grace! How sweet the sound
that saved a wretch/wreck like me.
I once was lost, but now am found
was blind, but now I see.”
- Hymn of John Newton,
former slave owner, reformed slave owner,
regenerated soul aka born again or born of the Spirit even born from on high

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

The heavily redacted 'Select parts of the Holy Bible:for the use of negro slaves, in the British West-India Islands' bible aka 'Slave Bible' readily comes to mind

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

adeniyi65:
I still remain a Truth seeker and if I'm to see anything truthful correlative with the history of the past or that can be useful for the future, I have no hidden agenda than to accept it with open hands. I'm not dogmatic on holding tight to opinion when it has been proven wrong. I'm just a problem solver.





Back to the conversation. Majority of European inhabitants are Christians. So it's understandable if every abolitionist that shows up there practice Christianity. Significant numbers of inhabitants in middle East practice Islam. So it's clearly understandable if their abolitionists are Muslims because abolition of slavery came in different time at different part of the world. So is other part of Asia who neither practice Islam nor Christianity. Such is inhabitants of China who are Buddhists excluding British colony of India.





Therefore to answer that the religion of the abolitionists is the major tool that influence abolitionism is false, that verdict should be absolutely seen as weak. It's because, if Bible influenced abolitionists of Christian settlements/nations, what influenced the abolitionist of Islamic settlement/nations. What influenced the abolitionists of Buddhism settlement/nations.




I believe if you are sincerely with your discussion as well, you should be able to analyze the above paragraph for justification that, human across all settlements were the ones who reasoned that the horrible use of fellow men like them in slavery should stop, which happened to them at different time.



I will like to add this to that answer. In history of Africa slavery. There is an African settlement which forbidded slavery even before abolitionism took place. They hate it with all passion. To avoid raid into their settlement, they builded tick solid wall around their settlement, neither did they partake in slave trade within their settlement. Slave raiders still abduct their people when they go outside the wall to farm. For that reason, residents of the settlement still builded second enclosure wall to cover their farm making two round circle wall shielding the people while one shielded their farm. This people knew nothing about Christianity as at then. Should we now say Christianity is what influenced them when they don't know or practice it? It's clearly their reasoning. Reasoning to distance themselves from barbaric act even when God is indifferent to slavery far away Israel. what
Religionists believe is that we need a kind of holy book to guide us because we are of flesh and to show us right from wrong. I believe animals that don't have human reasoning capability should be the one to need a guide book to know right from wrong(I don't mean to be rude) human are naturally endowed with intelligence that can create problems for their own advantage and solve problems (either man made or natural disaster) to their own advantage as well.



I think there is no need of mentioning names of abolitionists of Christian settlements again with that clear explanation.but to prove you are right at where you said slaves are not allowed to read. Yes that's how it is. I have come across the book of notable American and British abolitionist like Booker T. Washington. Fredrick Douglas and Olaudah Equiano(that tells you I have been a long reader on slavery). They all claimed that not reading Bible is prohibited alone but all slaves were prohibited from learning how to read and write for they know that literacy opens way for the seeking of knowledge, and the seeking of knowledge can make the slaves rebellious against them one day which actually happened eventually.

U are so ashamed of the truth U now writing long epistles to rationalize your deceptive opinion.
Yoruba will say ' Too much talk generates abundance of lies.
Truth is simple, concise and straightforward.
The inability to answer my questions with few sentence shows U hiding something and not being sincere.
U are not a truth seeker.

U have been trapped and now looking for lies to escape your ignorant opinion U brought here.
You even redefined the definition of abolitionists in order to dig your neck deeper into the sand.
This is what U wrote about abolitionist earlier on this thread.
Thank the abolitionist who helped stopped slavery, who knows wether today you might be in sugarcane farm in the Caribbean working helplessly without wage but crumbs of cheese

So how did someone in Africa who erected sticks to evade being captured and sold into slavery ended slavery in Carribbean.
People who were hiding from being victims of slavery have suddenly become abolitionist according to adeniyi.
FYI, ancient Benin kingdom didn't participate in the Atlantic slave trade and banned slave trade business within their domain, does that make them abolitionist?

All of a sudden U forcing me to accept that Christian by name and Christian by practice is the same.
Are missionaries to Africa same as the colonialist to Africa.
Mr man, give me the names of abolitionists and what motivated them to believe slavery is wrong.
Let me give U a name and research on it...The Quakers.
That U are John Thomas doesn't mean U live your life to reflect the biblical origin of the name.
FYI, the islamic world didn't abolish slavery on their own free will, they were forced to do so by western countries or when it became impractical to continue. Officially, Islamic world criminalise slavery in the 1960s, until then U could buy a slave in Arab open market.

Master taught their favourite slaves to read and write. Some slaves could read and write to some extent. Your claim of slaves didnt learn to read or write at all is a lie.
Masters need cheap labour for book keeping and keeping simple stocks of farm items. Favourite slaves were taught basic numbers and grammars.
Now those slaves were given a different bible to read out to their fellow slaves on Sundays. The question is why?


FINALLY I'M GLAD U MENTIONED ABRAHAM LINCOLN AS AN ABORTIONIST.
ABRAHAM SAID HE WAS CONVINCED HE WAS FIGHTING A JUST WAR BECAUSE OF THE MOTIVATION TO END SLAVERY.
HE SAID THIS CONVICTION CAME UPON HIM WHEN HE READ THE BIBLE AND LEARNT ALL MEN WERE CREATED EQUALLY IRRESPECTIVE OF RACE.

SO IF BIBLE CONDONED SLAVERY, HOW COME ABOLITIONISTS WERE MOTIVATED BY THE SAME BIBLE TO END SLAVERY.
IF THE BIBLE CONDONED SLAVERY, HOW COME SLAVE MASTERS GAVE A DIFFERENT BIBLE TO SLAVES.

pls help me makes sense of the above contradiction.

StillDtruth:
He said servants and God did not say raid neighbors for slaves stop repeating yourself like a mad person.

It looks like you too don't read your babble

Leviticus 25:44 ►
New International Version
“’Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

NNTR:
You should take a leaf from your 'Please read before replying' book and copy from it

I explicitly told you that you are going beyond the scope of the thread and the limits of its 'God Ordains Slavery' title heading. What part of that dont you get at all.Hmm?

Read my lips, I am not going to be drawn or be distracted by your nonsensical and ignorant wrangle.
If you still want to continue with your lopsided argument, simply limit it to slavery, serfdom and bond-servitude, well thats if you know what the differences and distinctions are between the trio

God came on board to sanitise, humanise and moralise with specified and unequivocally undisputed reforms

Making a statement of this kind and make it like in this manner, betrays how a feeble, shallow person who lacks depth you are

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Ok, so in other words, Yahweh doesn't want to change the norms for slavery, but decides to change the norms for other vices.
Thanks for your explanations

SIRTee15:
Let me ask 2 simple questions. If U don't know, do some research.


1. U admitted abolitionist ended slavery. Who are they? What religion do they follow? What gave them the inspiration to end slavery? Which book convinced them that slavery is wrong?

2. If U claim the Europeans used the bible to justify enslavement of black people. Why did the slave masters give a different bible to the slaves.
How come the bible used by slaves is different from that of the master.
Since bible condone slavery, why didn't both slave and his master read from the same bible.
How come slaves in that era had a different bible.

1. Abolitionists ended slavery DESPITE THE TEACHINGS IN THE BIBLE SINCE NOWHERE WAS IT WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE THAT SLAVING IS A SIN. Slavery was ended despite the bible
2. The same bible is what they are reading. The Bible is replete with copious amount of passages encouraging slavery from the OT to NT

SIRTee15:
With due respect. I am not interested in your opinion.
My questions are based on facts and I want factual response not opinionated ones.

Tell me the names of the abolitionists. I want their names, who are they, what do they believe in. What book inspired them to fight against slavery.
Except U are here with other sinister or impure motives, and not truth seeker....U would answer my questions with sincerity.

Your response to number 2 shows U need to do some reading on slavery.
So U think a slave will go to open market and buy a bible? From who, who will sell a book to a slave. In case U don't know, it's a crime for a slave to read except approved by his masters.
Slaves read the bible given to them by their Masters.

So why did slave Masters give a different bible to their slaves if the book approved of slavery.


Since U mentioned Abraham Lincoln, let me share with U what he thinks of the bible.

Well, like you said we are not interested in your opinion nor that of Lincoln.
Please show us in the Bible where it tells people to abolish slavery or where it states that slavery is bad.
The Bible explicitly said murder, lying, covetousness etc are all sins, even made them into commandments, but it omits the fatcs that slavery was a sin, despite the facts is was very common.

SIRTee15:
U are so ashamed of the truth U now writing long epistles to rationalize your deceptive opinion.
Yoruba will say ' Too much talk generates abundance of lies.
Truth is simple, concise and straightforward.
The inability to answer my questions with few sentence shows U hiding something and not being sincere.
U are not a truth seeker.

U have been trapped and now looking for lies to escape your ignorant opinion U brought here.
You even redefined the definition of abolitionists in order to dig your neck deeper into the sand.
This is what U wrote about abolitionist earlier on this thread.
Thank the abolitionist who helped stopped slavery, who knows wether today you might be in sugarcane farm in the Caribbean working helplessly without wage but crumbs of cheese

So how did someone in Africa who erected sticks to evade being captured and sold into slavery ended slavery in Carribbean.
People who were hiding from being victims of slavery have suddenly become abolitionist according to adeniyi.
FYI, ancient Benin kingdom didn't participate in the Atlantic slave trade and banned slave trade business within their domain, does that make them abolitionist?

All of a sudden U forcing me to accept that Christian by name and Christian by practice is the same.
Are missionaries to Africa same as the colonialist to Africa.
Mr man, give me the names of abolitionists and what motivated them to believe slavery is wrong.
Let me give U a name and research on it...The Quakers.
That U are John Thomas doesn't mean U live your life to reflect the biblical origin of the name.
FYI, the islamic world didn't abolish slavery on their own free will, they were forced to do so by western countries or when it became impractical to continue. Officially, Islamic world criminalise slavery in the 1960s, until then U could buy a slave in Arab open market.

Master taught their favourite slaves to read and write. Some slaves could read and write to some extent. Your claim of slaves didnt learn to read or write at all is a lie.
Masters need cheap labour for book keeping and keeping simple stocks of farm items. Favourite slaves were taught basic numbers and grammars.
Now those slaves were given a different bible to read out to their fellow slaves on Sundays. The question is why?


FINALLY I'M GLAD U MENTIONED ABRAHAM LINCOLN AS AN ABORTIONIST.
ABRAHAM SAID HE WAS CONVINCED HE WAS FIGHTING A JUST WAR BECAUSE OF THE MOTIVATION TO END SLAVERY.
HE SAID THIS CONVICTION CAME UPON HIM WHEN HE READ THE BIBLE AND LEARNT ALL MEN WERE CREATED EQUALLY IRRESPECTIVE OF RACE.

SO IF BIBLE CONDONED SLAVERY, HOW COME ABOLITIONISTS WERE MOTIVATED BY THE SAME BIBLE TO END SLAVERY.
IF THE BIBLE CONDONED SLAVERY, HOW COME SLAVE MASTERS GAVE A DIFFERENT BIBLE TO SLAVES.

pls help me makes sense of the above contradiction.

Abolitionism in its simplest meaning means stopping something. But the general use of abolitionism can be cite towards Western slavery. no qualm. For clarification sake I would agree with you on some case for later comparison. the reason why the westerners gave different Bible to slaves? The Bible given to them is a sensored Bible that is meant to keep them in continual slavery. Many part of OT were filtered away leaving most of the NT part that instructs slaves to be submissive to their masters. https://www.history.com/news/slave-bible-redacted-old-testament


It's clear that NT has verses that supports equality of all human irrespective of race or color in the front of God(what your claimed abolitionists cited), but does that erase the verses that hold tight to slavery? And it's still the same Bible which instructs slaves to remain submissive.


The trait of Christians from the earliest time to the present day can be liked to a system, a system of filtering bible reference to suit their ambition. What would now happen to the part they left if other same believers of yours pick it?



Now to accept your verdict for sake of later clarification. Let us accept that Western abolitionists were influenced by Bible. What influenced those that distanced themselves from slavery in Africa or other part of Africa? as I await the answer, I will clarify something here again. Settlements that knew nothing about Christianity or Islam distanced themselves from slavery because their reasoning is against it. Their own have nothing to do with abolitionism. So I haven't deviate from the topic. Is it also Bible that stop people who distanced themselves from slavery? No! People used their reasoning to distance themselves from slavery.


Note: I wouldn't entirely disqualify your claim that Arab world is forced to abandon slavery.



You can also check the link below to know that Bible supported slavery clearly. The blog post is written by a Christian who is open to dialogue. https://michaelpahl.com/2017/01/27/the-bible-is-clear-god-endorses-slavery/



A big question here for you. Bible openly preach against adultery, idolatry, backbiting and many others. Why did Bible refused to do same on slavery?

adeniyi65:
Abolitionism in its simplest meaning means stopping something. But the general use of abolitionism can be cite towards Western slavery. no qualm. For clarification sake I would agree with you on some case for later comparison. the reason why the westerners gave different Bible to slaves? The Bible given to them is a sensored Bible that is meant to keep them in continual slavery. Many part of OT were filtered away leaving most of the NT part that instructs slaves to be submissive to their masters. https://www.history.com/news/slave-bible-redacted-old-testament


It's clear that NT has verses that supports equality of all human irrespective of race or color in the front of God(what your claimed abolitionists cited), but does that erase the verses that hold tight to slavery? And it's still the same Bible which instructs slaves to remain submissive.


The trait of Christians from the earliest time to the present day can be liked to a system, a system of filtering bible reference to suit their ambition. What would now happen to the part they left if other same believers of yours pick it?



Now to accept your verdict for sake of later clarification. Let us accept that Western abolitionists were influenced by Bible. What influenced those that distanced themselves from slavery in Africa or other part of Africa? as I await the answer, I will clarify something here again. Settlements that knew nothing about Christianity or Islam distanced themselves from slavery because their reasoning is against it. Their own have nothing to do with abolitionism. So I haven't deviate from the topic. Is it also Bible that stop people who distanced themselves from slavery? No! People used their reasoning to distance themselves from slavery.


Note: I wouldn't entirely disqualify your claim that Arab world is forced to abandon slavery.



You can also check the link below to know that Bible supported slavery clearly. The blog post is written by a Christian who is open to dialogue. https://michaelpahl.com/2017/01/27/the-bible-is-clear-god-endorses-slavery/



A big question here for you. Bible openly preach against adultery, idolatry, backbiting and many others. Why did Bible refused to do same on slavery?

Well said, case in point 👇🏾

jaephoenix:
1. Abolitionists ended slavery DESPITE THE TEACHINGS IN THE BIBLE SINCE NOWHERE WAS IT WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE THAT SLAVING IS A SIN. Slavery was ended despite the bible
2. The same bible is what they are reading. The Bible is replete with copious amount of passages encouraging slavery from the OT to NT

If U are not ready to answer my question, pls don't quote me.
I'm not interested in your whataboutism

1. Give me the names of the abolitionists who fought for the global termination of slave trade.
What is their religion, what is the source of their inspiration. What book Gabe them the motivation to end the slave trade.
Start with the Quakers.

2. If bible condoned slavery, why did the slave masters omitted more than half of the bible b4 giving it to slaves to read.
Why didn't they read from the same bible since the book condoned slave trade.

If U are not ready to answer my question, pls don't quote me.

Lucifyre:
Well said, case in point 👇🏾

this still proves Christianity condones slavery. Why must Holy book teaches how to manage slavery when it can bluntly say NO to slavery as it says no to other mere sins. This things sometimes question the genuinity of Bible as holy book.

Lucifyre:
Well said, case in point 👇🏾

By giving them a different bible right?
A bible that omitted more than half of the bible pages.
That doesn't look like Christianity to me, that's religious fraud.