₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
You are not paying attention at all. 🤔

The Catholics invented most of their doctrines and traditions by way of their many twists and lies of scripture. Even the idea of the cross as a sacred symbol was invented by the Catholics. The idea of the book you carry around called your Bible is some sort of "Holy" book that should be revered and never tossed, torn, or burned... all ideas that came from the Catholics. Many of your prayer rituals, and ceremonies in your Pentecostal churches came from the Catholic traditions as well.

He doesn't know that obviously.

[quote author=Muurian post=132865265][/quote]Lol.

Let's quickly agree for your sake that Peter was the first Pope of Rome. For this agreement to work, I must first excuse your crass ignorance of Scripture. The history of Peter is in the Bible. Go read and don't allow anyone deceive you. Jesus never appointed Peter Pope of Rome. I don't know why you cannot read the Bible but instead you choose to read Google and Wikipedia!

Okay, now, let's assume Peter was the first Pope of Rome, kindly tell us where Peter practiced the pagan traditions of Queen of heaven, rosaries, Imageries, etc and handed them over to you.

Kobojunkie:
I did that earlier but you reject the Gospels as Jesus Christ made clear those who would adopt doctrines and traditions of men — Religion — would. So, your particular problem here has nothing to do with me.

2. I also did that when I pointed out that the Pagans, some of them Romans, eventually set up a religion by which to manipulate the minds of people and also gain power and prestige for themselves amongst the people of the time. They cooked up stories of all kinds to associate themselves in any way possible with at least the apostles whose stories were never again to be heard of after the end came in 70 AD. That eventually paid dividends for many of them when the religion was made the official religion of Rome by Constantine who equally wanted to get in on the political importance of the religion at the time. [/quote]My friend, you didn't prove any of your claims with Scriptures. You were only mentioning verses and explaining them in the most heretical manner.

On your second point, I have told you that the Church is fully aware of the evils committed by the Roman Catholics and has reformed, has kept reforming and would continue to reform. The Church has long departed from the occultic rites of Roman Catholicism.

Kobojunkie:
😂😂😂😂 Which church discovered which lies? The same churches that built their foundation on that which was Catholicism— doctrines and traditions— before them abi which one? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Seems you don't know what Protestants and Reformation is all about.

2. How could they have dropped that which is still part and parcel of the belief system even to this day?

Are you kidding me? We do not believe or practice the same things as the Roman Catholics.

3. Taken from Babylonian cults? Religion, in the form of what is called Judaism today, is what the Jews— the Nation of Judea, the sister nation of the former nation of Israel — took from the Babylonians when they were there in captivity. And that is the tradition that even Pentecostalism upholds to this day as Christianity is famously known to be modeled after Judaism before it, the very Religion Jesus Christ is known to have condemned even during HIs time.

You don't even know the Babylonian cult to be able to make the difference. You're just too ignorant.

GothamCities:
■ My friend, you didn't prove any of your claims with Scriptures. You were only mentioning verses and explaining them in the most heretical manner.
■ On your second point, I have told you that the Church is fully aware of the evils committed by the Roman Catholics and has reformed, has kept reforming and would continue to reform. The Church has long departed from the occultic rites of Roman Catholicism.

This statement of yours makes absolutely no sense! I simply quoted what is written in Scripture as is written. If you think that is heretical to do then it means you don't accept what is in fact stated in Scripture to begin with.

2. Balderdash! Your churches are founded upon the same doctrines and traditions of the Catholic Church. The so-called Reformation was merely a farce by those who wished to have a piece of the power and glamour that formerly belonged only to the Catholic Church. The foundation of their so-called reformation is the same foundation drawn by the Catholic church, most of their doctrines and traditions are the same, except for the fact that they claim to have been reformed. Yes, all 45,000 denominations of Christianity today, including those of the Catholic Church, all share the same functional doctrines and traditions. So, stop deceiving yourself thinking you deceive others by it.

GothamCities:
■ Seems you don't know what Protestants and Reformation is all about.
■ Are you kidding me? We do not believe or practice the same things as the Roman Catholics.
■ You don't even know the Babylonian cult to be able to make the difference.
■ You're just too ignorant.

1. Its you who lacks an understanding of what really took place during the so-called Reformation and how and why Christianity, even with its over 45,000 branches that have shot out since then all retain and continue many of the same doctrines and traditions associated with its mother church, the Catholic Church.

2. That is the lie you tell yourselves but the fact is most of your traditions today can easily be traced back to the Catholic Church. Even your offering collection rituals are from the Catholic church.

3. I don't need to know of a Babylonian cult as all I need to know is Babylon mentioned in Scripture and what the God of Israel accused the Jews — Israelites as well —came away from Babylon with. That religion and everything put on top of it amounts to Paganism —antiChrist — where the God of Israel is concerned.

4. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I am far from the ignorant one in these things.

Muurian:
While pentecostals and catholics both claim to follow Jesus Christ, Catholic doctrine holds that Pentecostals, lacking adherence to the sacraments, apostolic authority, and tradition, has departed from true christianity. As noted in numerous historical documents, including the Council of Trent and the writings of early Church Fathers, Christianity was established with specific doctrines, sacraments, and a hierarchical authority that pentecostalism largely disregards.

You failed to understand that, just like the way God permitted Christianity from it early stage of it existence that it stood still now according to this scripture,

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

The same way God had allowed schism to happen.
if God had not permitted schism it would have come to nought a long time ago and wouldn't have existed anymore in Christianity till now.

Christianity is not about doctrines, sacraments or Apostolic authorities.
As a matter of facts the said apostles who postulated these doctrines and sacraments are mere humans therefore they cannot fight God who has permitted schism all these centuries.

What you should understand is that, the earth is Lord's and it fullness thereof.

You can't box God and confine him into your doctrines and sacraments it's not possible.

So relax, what will be will surely be

paxonel:
You failed to understand that, just like the way God permitted Christianity from it early stage of it existence that it stood still now according to this scripture,

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

The same way God had allowed schism to happen.
if God had not permitted schism it would have come to nought a long time ago and wouldn't have existed anymore in Christianity till now.

Christianity is not about doctrines, sacraments or Apostolic authorities.
As a matter of facts the said apostles who postulated these doctrines and sacraments are mere humans therefore they cannot fight God who has permitted schism all these centuries.

What you should understand is that, the earth is Lord's and it fullness thereof.

You can't box God and confine him into your doctrines and sacraments it's not possible.

So relax, what will be will surely be

You have also failed to understand a simple thing, that Christianity is not the only way to worship God.

If you must worship God as a Christian, you must do it the Catholic way. That is the only way because they are "the christians".

If you are not doing it the Catholic way, then you are no Christian. You should choose whatever name you want but not Christians.

This is why you guys are called pentecostals, because you think you can select whichever part of Catholic (Christianity) traditions that suits you and damn the rest.

Veneration of Saints, honouring of Mary, worshipping of Jesus as God, Adherence to the sacraments are the distinctive features that differentiated christians from the beginning and made them different from Judaism adherents, the prevalent religion in Jesus time.

So once you are not doing all the above, you are not a Christian. Doesn't matter how many scriptures you quote.

Christianity is a way of life. Scriptures were written centuries and decades apart and were compiled by the Catholics over centuries before they termed it what you call the Bible today.

If the Pope is coming to Nigeria today, even your pastors will be scrambling to be in front row seat to greet him.

GothamCities:
Lol.

Let's quickly agree for your sake that Peter was the first Pope of Rome. For this agreement to work, I must first excuse your crass ignorance of Scripture. The history of Peter is in the Bible. Go read and don't allow anyone deceive you. Jesus never appointed Peter Pope of Rome. I don't know why you cannot read the Bible but instead you choose to read Google and Wikipedia!

Okay, now, let's assume Peter was the first Pope of Rome, kindly tell us where Peter practiced the pagan traditions of Queen of heaven, rosaries, Imageries, etc and handed them over to you.

Even if they show you, you will still ask another meaningless question.

Who wrote the scriptures and compiled them into the book you call Bible you are so crazy about? Is it not same Catholics?

You people have been so decieved and gone far off the rail that you continue to argue, always ending up showing your heavy ignorance.

Muurian:
So anyone that doesn't agree with you is a devil?

Lol. Typical indoctrinated fella

Spoken like a true Satanist aka atheist in clear proof that Catholicism leads to atheism.And funny, it is coming from you Catholic, a disciple of indoctrinations.

Muurian:
@bolded, Show proof.

Clear proof that Catholics, are not Christians. and do not read the bible for all i said is right there in the bible looking at you but you never saw it.

I think you are just an atheist coming to stir up strife, clear proof you are a devil.

Muurian:
You have also failed to understand a simple thing, that Christianity is not the only way to worship God.

If you must worship God as a Christian, you must do it the Catholic way. That is the only way because they are "the christians".

If you are not doing it the Catholic way, then you are no Christian. You should choose whatever name you want but not Christians.

[This is why you guys are called pentecostals, because you think you can select whichever part of Catholic (Christianity) traditions that suits you and damn the rest.

Veneration of Saints, honouring of Mary, worshipping of Jesus as God, Adherence to the sacraments are the distinctive features that differentiated christians from the beginning and made them different from Judaism adherents, the prevalent religion in Jesus time.

So once you are not doing all the above, you are not a Christian. Doesn't matter how many scriptures you quote. .

Where in the bible did Peter, Paul and co venerate.and worship Mary? or tell people to do so?

So, this radition is your pagan tradition and not found in the bible, nor did Peter in the bible say so

So clearly, your Peter of Catholic church is another Peter and not the one in the bible.

This one you are arguing so much, you must have committed a very very big sin, pass Baltasar.

Muurian:
You have also failed to understand a simple thing, that Christianity is not the only way to worship God.

If you must worship God as a Christian, you must do it the Catholic way. That is the only way because they are "the christians".

If you are not doing it the Catholic way, then you are no Christian. You should choose whatever name you want but not Christians.

This is why you guys are called pentecostals, because you think you can select whichever part of Catholic (Christianity) traditions that suits you and damn the rest.

Veneration of Saints, honouring of Mary, worshipping of Jesus as God, Adherence to the sacraments are the distinctive features that differentiated christians from the beginning and made them different from Judaism adherents, the prevalent religion in Jesus time.

So once you are not doing all the above, you are not a Christian. Doesn't matter how many scriptures you quote.

Christianity is a way of life. Scriptures were written centuries and decades apart and were compiled by the Catholics over centuries before they termed it what you call the Bible today.

If the Pope is coming to Nigeria today, even your pastors will be scrambling to be in front row seat to greet him.

Ok, do you have any scripture in the bible to verify this your catholic fundamentals?

Because, protestants and other Christians solely depend on biblical records one of which is John 3:16

John 3:16 ... That whosever believeth in him should not perish but have Everlasting life

Whosever implies whether you are catholic or Presbyterian or Methodist or Anglican or whatever pentecostalist.

If there is any record in the bible that specifically mention catholic as the sole authority to claim Christianity you can post it here.

Or...

GothamCities:
Study Church History my friend. Those things were brought into the Church by Constantine the emperor of Rome in his attempt to merge the Church and the state.

Jesus, His disciples, and all the Christians who lived 300yrs before Constantine never practiced such profanities.

Great!

paxonel:
Ok, do you have any scripture in the bible to verify this your catholic fundamentals?

Because, protestants and other Christians solely depend on biblical records one of which is John 3:16

John 3:16 ... That whosever believeth in him should not perish but have Everlasting life

Whosever implies whether you are catholic or Presbyterian or Methodist or Anglican or whatever pentecostalist.

If there is any record in the bible that specifically mention catholic as the sole authority to claim Christianity you can post it here.

Or...

By this reasoning, what biblical record has been used to determine what is scripture?
How would Christians in a remote village in say 40 to 80AD have known about John 3:16 that likely hadn't been written or received for decades?
At what point did Christianity become solely of the book? Which church council approved this?
What do you think the original church as opposed to the heretics in the 1st 4 centuries was called?
Would you dimiss God as 'Trinity ' as this word isn't in the bible and not defined for centuries.?

Dtruthspeaker:
Clear proof that Catholics, are not Christians. and do not read the bible the for all i said is right there in the bible looking at you are but you never saw it.

I think you are just an atheist coming to stir up strife, clear proof you are a devil.

You can't meander your way out of facts bro.

btoks:
By this reasoning, what biblical record has been used to determine what is scripture?
How would Christians in a remote village in say 40 to 80AD have known about John 3:16 that likely hadn't been written or received for decades?
At what point did Christianity become solely of the book? Which church council approved this?
What do you think the original church as opposed to the heretics in the 1st 4 centuries was called?
Would you dimiss God as 'Trinity ' as this word isn't in the bible and not defined for centuries.?

Good questions.

paxonel:
Ok, do you have any scripture in the bible to verify this your catholic fundamentals?

Because, protestants and other Christians solely depend on biblical records one of which is John 3:16

John 3:16 ... That whosever believeth in him should not perish but have Everlasting life

Whosever implies whether you are catholic or Presbyterian or Methodist or Anglican or whatever pentecostalist.

If there is any record in the bible that specifically mention catholic as the sole authority to claim Christianity you can post it here.

Or...

You keep talking about scriptures. Who wrote this scriptures?

Dtruthspeaker:
Spoken like a true Satanist aka atheist in clear proof that Catholicism leads to atheism.And funny, it is coming from you Catholic, a disciple of indoctrinations.

Christians (catholics) all over the world follow the same teachings, traditions and dogmas for two thousand years now.

Of course the same thing can't be said about pentecostals with their fragmented belief systems. Everyone thinks they can interpret the Bible (A book catholics/christians compiled for themselves) as they seem fit while pretending that God "revealed" it to them just to decieve the gullible.

Do we want to go the way of the council of Nicaea and the likes arguing on the person of Jesus(Christology), the study of God, I mean the trinity and esteeming Mary as the mother of God because she bore Jesus and therefore, making her cult more important and valuable in substance in obtaining salvation rather than evangelizing the world? It was these endless and unprofitable arguments that led to the fall of the Church and gave Islam power to rise in the 7th century. It is even written boldly within the pages of Quran where it is stated that

And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do.
English - Sahih International Quran 5:14

My point is that doing the will of Jesus Christ is the criterion which guarantees one salvation ultimately. The Roman Catholic Church, Protestant Church, Puritan Church, Pentecostal Church or whatever the name of the church have nothing to proof before Jesus regarding our aspirations and salvation in Him.

Kobojunkie:
😂😂😂😂 Which church discovered which lies? The same churches that built their foundation on that which was Catholicism— doctrines and traditions— before them abi which one? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

2. How could they have dropped that which is still part and parcel of the belief system even to this day?

3. Taken from Babylonian cults? Religion, in the form of what is called Judaism today, is what the Jews— the Nation of Judea, the sister nation of the former nation of Israel — took from the Babylonians when they were there in captivity. And that is the tradition that even Pentecostalism upholds to this day as Christianity is famously known to be modeled after Judaism before it, the very Religion Jesus Christ is known to have condemned even during HIs time.

This is absolute inaccurate nonsense peddled as fact. What's your source for this cap? Funny.

Captain4Jehovah:
Do we want to go the way of the council of Nicaea and the likes arguing on the person of Jesus(Christology), the study of God, I mean the trinity and esteeming Mary as the mother of God because she bore Jesus and therefore, making her cult more important and valuable in substance in obtaining salvation rather than evangelizing the world? It was these endless and unprofitable arguments that led to the fall of the Church and gave Islam power to rise in the 7th century. It is even written boldly within the pages of Quran where it is stated that

And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do.
English - Sahih International Quran 5:14

My point is that doing the will of Jesus Christ is the criterion which guarantees one salvation ultimately. The Roman Catholic Church, Protestant Church, Puritan Church, Pentecostal Church or whatever the name of the church have nothing to proof before Jesus regarding our aspirations and salvation in Him.

The church didn't fall in the 7th century and would never fall as Jesus himself said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Regarding church councils, this is how church has always functioned even from the early days(e.g Act 15) . It's always been required to settle disputes and clarify/come to a consensus on church teachings. Ironically, the canon of the bible was also confirmed via church councils.

The arguments about the person of Christ has always been fundamental to the Christian faith, therefore when certain heretics (Arianism) taught a different teaching to what was orthodox,this had to be brought up at the council of Nicaea.

The teaching about Mary as (Theotokus) Mother of God is all to do with Jesus. It is to confirm that Jesus is both God and Man and there was never a separation while Jesus was on earth ( against the Nestorian schism). Basically, who was the Jesus that Mary gave birth to and what did that make her.

These issues and many others were not clear from reading scriptures alone and thus had to be decided by the church. It's no use stating that it's not profitable as this is how the faith as been defined. It is very convenient to take things for granted many centuries after the event.

There will be new issues and the church will reconvene to address these. Shikena

Muurian:
Even if they show you, you will still ask another meaningless question.

Who wrote the scriptures and compiled them into the book you call Bible you are so crazy about? Is it not same Catholics?

You people have been so decieved and gone far off the rail that you continue to argue, always ending up showing your heavy ignorance.

These your rantings hold no water!

Show me first and let me disbelieve first before you make conclusions that I won't believe.

I don't know why some individuals choose to be deceived and so much hate their own souls.

Jesus didn't bow to any image, the disciples didn't use any rosary, no one ever prayed to any Mary the mother of God for the first 400yrs of Christianity. The Pagan Romans brought them into the church 400yrs after Jesus and 300years after the death of the last apostle. Instead of you to go dig for the truth, you're holding firmly to the profanities of the Romans without considering your eternity.

The Roman Catholics didn't give us the Bible! The Nicene fathers collected the books that had existed before them. These fathers in the council of Nicaea consisted of Eastern Orthodox Christians and others who later became Roman Catholics. The Nicene fathers were part of the early undivided church before the church broke into two which saw the emergence of Roman paganism in the Catholic Church, while those who rejected Roman paganism remained in Eastern Christian Orthodoxy.

Muurian:
You keep talking about scriptures. Who wrote this scriptures?

Anyway, before you start claiming what you don't know about.

Does the information below solve your curiously?

Captain4Jehovah:
...
My point is that doing the will of Jesus Christ is the criterion which guarantees one salvation ultimately. The Roman Catholic Church, Protestant Church, Puritan Church, Pentecostal Church or whatever the name of the church have nothing to proof before Jesus regarding our aspirations and salvation in Him.

Jesus Christ of Israel never said this which you claim. And to your other statement regarding your churches, Jesus Christ made abundantly clear that the dogs will trample that which is Holy -- guaranteed. That invariably means that all your churches operate based on trampled/unholy aka antichrist ideas.

John 3:16

MYGODISNOTWEAK:
John 3:16

Try instead John 3 vs 14 through 20 to see that the statement was made by Jesus Christ regarding the Israelites -- the same to whom the bronze snake was raised in the desert. He basically used that statement to insist that it is that very same world -- the world comprised of the Israelites(blood line of Jacob) that He was sent by His Father.

btoks:
The church didn't fall in the 7th century and would never fall as Jesus himself said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Regarding church councils, this is how church has always functioned even from the early days(e.g Act 15) . It's always been required to settle disputes and clarify/come to a consensus on church teachings. Ironically, the canon of the bible was also confirmed via church councils.

The arguments about the person of Christ has always been fundamental to the Christian faith, therefore when certain heretics (Arianism) taught a different teaching to what was orthodox,this had to be brought up at the council of Nicaea.

The teaching about Mary as (Theotokus) Mother of God is all to do with Jesus. It is to confirm that Jesus is both God and Man and there was never a separation while Jesus was on earth ( against the Nestorian schism). Basically, who was the Jesus that Mary gave birth to and what did that make her.

These issues and many others were not clear from reading scriptures alone and thus had to be decided by the church. It's no use stating that it's not profitable as this is how the faith as been defined. It is very convenient to take things for granted many centuries after the event.

There will be new issues and the church will reconvene to address these. Shikena

Non emphasis on the word "fall" makes my point INVALID AS TO THE POINT RAISED IN RELATION TO THE CHURCH STATUS. Islam took advantage of this while the church leaders were busying sanitizing the house. It was more than arguing alone, rifts also ensued. It should be NOTED that the Church lacked the WILL or I should simply say, the CHANCE TO WITNESS Christ as against the early apostles' grace. It's in the sake to restore sanity and establish sound doctrines that brought about these councils. I equally add: we know in part! However, the Church can't be overthrown!

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ of Israel never said this which you claim. And to your other statement regarding your churches, Jesus Christ made abundantly clear that the dogs will trample that which is Holy -- guaranteed. That invariably means that all your churches operate based on trampled/unholy aka antichrist ideas.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7 : 21

I think this answers your doubt and view about salvation in Christ. This is a personal relationship with God, I mean doing the Father's will. And this has been the way Jehovah has been dealing with man right from Adam TILL DATE.

Captain4Jehovah:
Non emphasis on the word "fall" makes my point INVALID AS TO THE POINT RAISED IN RELATION TO THE CHURCH STATUS. Islam took advantage of this while the church leaders were busying sanitizing the house. It was more than arguing alone, rifts also ensued. It should be NOTED that the Church lacked the WILL or I should simply say, the CHANCE TO WITNESS Christ as against the early apostles' grace. It's in the sake to restore sanity and establish sound doctrines that brought about these councils. I equally add: we know in part! However, the Church can't be overthrown!

There was obviously evangelisation along with the councils ( not every bishop, priest or layman attended the councils). The fact is even in the time of the Apostles there was infighting and dissention among people about the subject of circumcision of Gentiles - This led to the council of Jerusalem where a decision had to be made. This effectively carried on although there was a lull in the 1st 3 centuries due to the persecution of Christians. Church had to get its own house in order before worrying about external attacks. I really don't know how you think the Church would have been better off not holding councils!

Captain4Jehovah:
✓ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7 : 21

I think this answers your doubt and view about salvation in Christ. This is a personal relationship with God, I mean doing the Father's will. And this has been the way Jehovah has been dealing with man right from Adam TILL DATE.

My doubt? The problem here is instead in your doubt of what Jesus Christ Himself decreed to His Followers. in that same Matthew 7 vs 6, Jesus Christ is famous for warning His followers against giving that which is Holy to the dogs -- non-israelites ---, specifying that dogs trample that which is Holy. Your religions were all of them established by these very people whom Jesus Christ warned His followers against, so clearly,you don't regard Jesus Christ let alone know Him because if you did, you wouldn't think to circumvent Him by claiming you had something to do with Adam.