₦airaland Forum

Sirmwill:
Originally God said man would die after the Garden of Eden error
Now , Jesus came and said man would not die again I mean AGAIN

like I said, understanding comes from the Holy Spirit and this here is an evidence that if God doesn't reveal his word to us we may misinterpret it.

Let me not go to deep into it, God said he would die, but not when he would die nor how he would die, and later God tells Adam you will return to the dust of the earth. Did God's word change?


Jesus saying we would not die would seem like a lie seeing that those who believe do "die" according to the understanding of men concerning death. But Jesus, like in scripture, would use a different word, slept as if to refer to the death of believers as sleeping and he could wake them up, resurrection. Now though both the wicked and the righteous look alike lying in state, one is dead the other is asleep.


Understanding and knowledge is given to you, Jesus said to his disciples, but not to them. Do you understand.

Sirmwill:
It is
After you heard the word of truth and the gospel of your salvation, and you believed, you are immediately sealed with the Holy Spirit 🙂 because it's a promise Jesus made

lol if it were that easy, many would have believed

gohf:
like I said, understanding comes from the Holy Spirit and this here is an evidence that if God doesn't reveal his word to us we may misinterpret it.

Let me not go to deep into it, God said he would die, but not when he would die nor how he would die, and later God tells Adam you will return to the dust of the earth. Did God's word change?


Jesus saying we would not die would seem like a lie seeing that those who believe do "die" according to the understanding of men concerning death. But Jesus, like in scripture, would use a different word, slept as if to refer to the death of believers as sleeping and he could wake them up, resurrection. Now though both the wicked and the righteous look alike lying in state, one is dead the other is asleep.


Understanding and knowledge is given to you, Jesus said to his disciples, but not to them. Do you understand.

No!
Jesus specifically said, MAN would not even die at all
I mean experience any death not even sleep death, not even actual death.

Do you need a bible reference for this 😇

Sirmwill:
No!
Jesus specifically said, MAN would not even die at all
I mean experience any death not even sleep death, not even actual death.

Do you need a bible reference for this 😇

no I don't
What you need is the Holy Spirit to help you understand the word of God

gohf:
lol if it were that easy, many would have believed

Yeah
It's that easy 🙂

But
You know how difficult for Jesus to believe he was the Son of God after just being told with a loud voice from heaven and a white dove coming to land upon his shoulder and the voice saying "This is my son in whom I am well pleased"
Then for the next 40days, it seemed like the opposite.
He went hungry with no food being provided for the SON OF GOD that Created the Earth and all the food in it 🙂
The devil smart in his evil ways kept on Tempting with the "If you are truly the son of God..." Intro

That is exactly what happens to believers today
"If you truly have the holy Spirit then...."
This is the devil trying to make one doubt the existence of the holy Spirit in them. In most cases, the devil uses sin to make them lose that belief
Now, there is a whole different explanation of how Faith been the Assurance of things not yet seen works if one holds on to the faith to make it seen 🙂
So yeah

The Holy Spirit was a promise by Jesus. It is easily given when someone believes the gospel of Salvation.

gohf:
no I don't
What you need is the Holy Spirit to help you understand the word of God

This Bible verse I am quoting, it was Jesus(The word himself) that is speaking here

John 11:25 AND 26

25. Jesus said, ‘I am the one who will raise people up and give them life. The person who believes in me will live, even though he has died. 26. Anyone who is living and who believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?’ (Joh 11: 25-26)

Another version
AMP
25. Jesus said to her, "_I_ am the Resurrection and the Life! The one believing in Me, even if he dies, he will live! 26. "And every [one] living and believing [or, trusting] in Me shall by no means die into the age [fig., forever]! Do you believe this [or, Are you convinced of this]?" (John 11: 25-26)

Another version
25. Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live. 26. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this? (Joh 11: 25-26)
MKJV

25. Jesus said: »I am the resurrection and the life. He who puts active faith in me will live, even if he dies. 26. »Whoever lives and puts active faith in me will never die. Do you believe this?« (Joh 11: 25-26)
NSB

I am waiting for you to see something different in this verses

Sirmwill:
This Bible verse I am quoting, it was Jesus(The word himself) that is speaking here

John 11:25 AND 26

25. Jesus said, ‘I am the one who will raise people up and give them life. The person who believes in me will live, even though he has died. 26. Anyone who is living and who believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?’ (Joh 11: 25-26)

Yes I knew that was the verse and I know what it means as I have told you already.

The question now is, either you believe he lied or that your understanding of what he said is wrong.

Sirmwill:
Yeah
It's that easy 🙂

But
You know how difficult for Jesus to believe he was the Son of God after just being told with a loud voice from heaven and a white dove coming to land upon his shoulder and the voice saying "This is my son in whom I am well pleased"
Then for the next 40days, it seemed like the opposite.
He went hungry with no food being provided for the SON OF GOD that Created the Earth and all the food in it 🙂
The devil smart in his evil ways kept on Tempting with the "If you are truly the son of God..." Intro

That is exactly what happens to believers today
"If you truly have the holy Spirit then...."
This is the devil trying to make one doubt the existence of the holy Spirit in them. In most cases, the devil uses sin to make them lose that belief
Now, there is a whole different explanation of how Faith been the Assurance of things not yet seen works if one holds on to the faith to make it seen 🙂
So yeah

The Holy Spirit was a promise by Jesus. It is easily given when someone believes the gospel of Salvation.

Jesus didn't find it difficult, he is the author of faith for a reason, he didn't argue that with the devil for even when he was a teenager he told Mary should I not be about my Father's business.

For the Spirit bears witness within, if someone outside questions the Holy Spirit in another it is possible because we don't see what is in man except it is revealed to us. It doesn't in anyway raise doubt about the existence of the Holy Spirit.

Whether it is easy or hard is less important as to that a person actually has received the Holy Spirit.

After all while for some while Peter was still speaking they received but for Simon who offered money he was rejected and told to go and properly repent.

gohf:
How can the spirit in you which reveals to you the secrets of men and gives you power not be able to reveal the truth of the holy scriptures that pertains to the salvation of souls, if such spirit is from God. For understanding and knowledge of the word of God comes from the spirit of God.

Now we know even the devil quotes scripture and knows God's word even from the beginning but he twists it like he did while tempting Jesus.

I have been asked how is it possible for there to be different teachings of certain subjects within the church, is the spirit of God two, the many interpretations which contradict each other causes confusion?

No man of God is a spirit or dwells in the spiritual permanently. Abraham misinterpreted God, Moses, Elijah, Peter. We are all are subject to errors.

That God uses any pastor to wrought miracles does not mean he can be scripturally sound. They are two different things. That a pastor has the knowledge of the Bible, which always limited, does not mean he can do the miraculous either.

MightySparrow:
No man of God is a spirit or dwells in the spiritual permanently. Abraham misinterpreted God, Moses, Elijah, Peter. We are all are subject to errors.

That God uses any pastor to wrought miracles does not mean he can be scripturally sound. They are two different things. That a pastor has the knowledge of the Bible, which always limited, does not mean he can do the miraculous either.

and how did you know they misinterpreted God? Wasn't it because there was correction and they accepted it.

Look there are mistakes a man of God may make, but not the Gehazi Balaam type and then refuse to repent of it.

Yes Peter spoke by the spirit and later spoke by the devil but he was rebuked for it, for what he said later to Jesus. But at this time was the spirit of God dwelling in him?

You said that God doing miracles through a man doesn't mean he can be scriptural sound?
Give us an example of such men
Then what is the purpose of the miracles if that is true

Not sure what you mean by scripturally sound but I take it, to mean to reveal the intent and heart of God concerning salvation for us.

gohf:
and how did you know they misinterpreted God? Wasn't it because there was correction and they accepted it.

Look there are mistakes a man of God may make, but not the Gehazi Balaam type and then refuse to repent of it.

Yes Peter spoke by the spirit and later spoke by the devil but he was rebuked for it, for what he said later to Jesus. But at this time was the spirit of God dwelling in him?

You said that God doing miracles through a man doesn't mean he can be scriptural sound?
Give us an example of such men
Then what is the purpose of the miracles if that is true

Not sure what you mean by scripturally sound but I take it, to mean to reveal the intent and heart of God concerning salvation for us.

Peter refused to eat with Gentiles, would not preach to Gentiles until even after baptism of the Holy Spirit.
His shadow
Elijah believed he was the only one remaining serving God. Elijah brought fire down.

Moses approved of divorce, Jesus distanced Himself from such Law.

Moses struck the Rock (Jesus) in the wilderness.

MightySparrow:
Peter refused to eat with Gentiles, would not preach to Gentiles until even after baptism of the Holy Spirit.
His shadow
Elijah believed he was the only one remaining serving God. Elijah brought fire down.

Moses approved of divorce, Jesus distanced Himself from such Law.

Moses struck the Rock (Jesus) in the wilderness.

not sure what you mean by refused, because at first they had to wait for the Spirit ane power to come upon them and when the Lord spoke to him he went to the gentiles and witnessed the them baptized by the Holy Spirit.

So I don't know what you are trying to show, especially when mentioning things like Elijah thought he was the only one, he didn't go around lying and defrauding people and which one is Elijah brought down fire is a fire mutant or what? What's your point, is that some evil that he did?


Moses approved divorced, so what? Wasn't it because of the wickedness of men, was the law not also because of the wickedness of men.

Moses struck the rock, you are on your own calling it Jesus o, and we knew that's a mistake he made out of anger were he spoke as if he was their god. And wasn't he rebuked for it?


In NONE of these do you find them teaching an error that goes against God, or were they reproved for doing so?


Like I said do not associate mistakes common to men to one in which perverts the word of God and refuses to repent from it, because other men they believe in do so as well, even when it goes against the words of Jesus.

Will the Spirit of Christ lead one into going against Christ? No.

Out of the abundance in a man he speaks, and out of the evil he brings forth evil words so also out of the good he speaks forth rivers of living water refreshing the lives of those thirsty for God.

IF HE MISSES PRAYING IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

gohf:
That loyalty seems cultured into them, some may say it may even have a demonic influence involved in it.

Because no matter how you read the word of God to them it's like they are blind like a strong veil has been put over their eyes to reject whatever wasn't said by their pastors.


Some of this men have the ability to confuse people into giving into demonic projects and the people will be happy doing so. Receiving strong joy and confidence from deception.

on point

pointblank247:
One of the problem with many pastors is in giving the scripture their denominational interpretation and trumpeting the view of his GO as the voice of God. He is handicapped actually because anything Short of that is seen as disloyalty.

One of the reasons I left the former mega church I was attending. Pastors blindly trying to trumpet what the doctrine of the GO or the church says as the absolute truth, when it's glaring that it's not biblical. I usually stand to correct such, and I was being looked at as a rebel. I can't stand such settings.

Sirmwill:
😅
You need to know something


When Paul was going to Jerusalem to preach, some specific people prophesied in the name of God that he should not go

And meeting the disciples we were there for seven days: and they gave Paul orders through the Spirit not to go up to Jerusalem. (Act 21: 4)

That was through the spirit of God oo

Now

Another set of people again did the same
11. And he came to us, and took the band of Paul's clothing, and putting it round his feet and hands, said, The Holy Spirit says these words, So will the Jews do to the man who is the owner of this band, and they will give him up into the hands of the Gentiles. 12. And hearing these things, we and those who were living in that place made request to him not to go to Jerusalem. (Act 21: 11-12)

Now
When Paul went to Jerusalem, look at what God told Paul himself

And the night after, the Lord came to his side and said, Be of good heart, for as you have been witnessing for me in Jerusalem, so will you be my witness in Rome. (Act 23: 11)

This is a very solid example of people even Giving Prophecy i.e speaking the mind of God about something which the person (Paul in this case) went against and still went to Jerusalem and God commended him for it as you see in Acts 23:11
God was happy with Paul that he said that he would also go to Rome to do the same thing he has come to Jerusalem to do

I am quoting your original text to firstly apologise for saying that
Acts.21.4 We went ashore, found the local believers, and stayed with them a week. These disciples prophesied through the Holy Spirit that Paul should not go on to Jerusalem.

Meant they gave own personal interpretation of what the Holy Spirit showed them, now it's possible they did but today I believe I received a correction from the Lord concerning my stance of what Paul did.

I haven't gone through what I wrote as I believe an apology first is important.

Now what I heard was it was Paul's decision to go to Jerusalem, haven't I shown you times when he went or even wanted to go and do, based on his own decisions.

I wouldn't completely believe it, till I got directed to Acts 22:17-21

Acts.22.17 - "Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance
Acts.22.18 - and saw Him saying to me, "Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.'
Acts.22.19 - So I said, "Lord, they know that in every synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believe on You.
Acts.22.20 - And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.'
Acts.22.21 - Then He said to me, "Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles."'



Though Luke did not record a direct command for Paul to not go to Jerusalem, you are right I agree, Paul went against the will and he faced the consequences that was revealed.

Then the Lord appeared to him in that Acts.23.11 - But the following night the Lord stood by him and said, "Be of good cheer, Paul; for as you have testified for Me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness at Rome."

To encourage and correct him.


Even I my self do the things I believe is right even when they go against God's leading but because the Lord sees that the heart is right he sends us encouragement after we have been disciplined.

I still stand as I have show that both what the Spirit revealed and the direction the Lord spoke to Paul were in agreement.

And just as atimes there are no direct commands, I believe it's for there to be room for mercy. Like a brother or sister could be shown to someone but no command saying you must marry her.


I apologise once again.

gohf:
I am quoting your original text to firstly apologise for saying that
Acts.21.4 We went ashore, found the local believers, and stayed with them a week. These disciples prophesied through the Holy Spirit that Paul should not go on to Jerusalem.

Meant they gave own personal interpretation of what the Holy Spirit showed them, now it's possible they did but today I believe I received a correction from the Lord concerning my stance of what Paul did.

I haven't gone through what I wrote as I believe an apology first is important.

Now what I heard was it was Paul's decision to go to Jerusalem, haven't I shown you times when he went or even wanted to go and do, based on his own decisions.

I wouldn't completely believe it, till I got directed to Acts 22:17-21

Acts.22.17 - "Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance
Acts.22.18 - and saw Him saying to me, "Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.'
Acts.22.19 - So I said, "Lord, they know that in every synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believe on You.
Acts.22.20 - And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.'
Acts.22.21 - Then He said to me, "Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles."'



Though Luke did not record a direct command for Paul to not go to Jerusalem, you are right I agree, Paul went against the will and he faced the consequences that was revealed.

Then the Lord appeared to him in that Acts.23.11 - But the following night the Lord stood by him and said, "Be of good cheer, Paul; for as you have testified for Me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness at Rome."

To encourage and correct him.


Even I my self do the things I believe is right even when they go against God's leading but because the Lord sees that the heart is right he sends us encouragement after we have been disciplined.

I still stand as I have show that both what the Spirit revealed and the direction the Lord spoke to Paul were in agreement.

And just as atimes there are no direct commands, I believe it's for there to be room for mercy. Like a brother or sister could be shown to someone but no command saying you must marry her.


I apologise once again.

😇
Yunno
Everything Jesus commanded is the greatest
And the most powerful because
His commandments are love based.
And
Everything Jesus said was going to be the foundation on which the new covenant is now established as described in Hebrews.
So with this in mind, whatever any person, Man of God or not, Prophet, anyone whosoever says I should do even if he says it is God that said I should do so, if it contradicts these commandments of Jesus, I would rather go with What Jesus said.
Paul totally decides to go to Jerusalem for the love of God he has had and for the love of the people already misled there.
He, after previously being a strong upholder of the law,was like the totally right person to go to Jerusalem to show them the light.
Even till today, some Churches(most Churches) still tend to follow some of the commandments given by Moses and other Prophets which are directly opposite to the commandments given by Jesus.
In these churches, people still see visions, and prophesy in agreement to their beliefs and it is through God.And sometimes, these prophesies are from God.
Thing is God works with people based on how they see and understand him.
There's a part of freewill in the whole equation.
Like a Pastor in a particular church can quote a scripture in the Bible where God commanded the Army to destroy a particular kingdom and spare no living thing to live , with this, they should therefore kill their "enemies" and spare them not so that they(the enemies) after being dead,can give way for their (the church members) prosperity and greatness. People can even see visions and say this by the Spirit.
This is actually the foundation of some specific churches all over Nigeria.
Similarly, another Pastor in another church is quoting where Jesus gave his commandments that we should pray for our enemies. "You have heard before that an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but now I tell you, pray for your enemies".
These two different types of pastors are quoting from the scriptures which is the word of God.
They are both right (probably) but one is believing Jesus more than the other.
Yunno
That was kinda what led to all of these conversation of ours. You said Some Pastors quote scriptures wrongly.
So, I'm saying. The only scriptures we should hold dearly on to is actually the commandments of Jesus. With this, no Prophecy in this world or Pastor or anyone can lead us astray
😇

gohf:
I have usually excused some of these things (teachings) as human error but in as we are weak as long as we are willing, just as the spirit of God lead the church in Acts in it's growth, he will lead us into correction as well unless if that which is in us is not of God. But the root of such human error should not be said to be from God, it was not the spirit of God that made some rise up and claim circumcision was necessary for salvation so also it is not the spirit of God that adds things Jesus never commanded us to do especially when they contradict the love that Jesus preached and taught. Note love doesn't condone evil nor harbor it.

Many times we fall victim to false preaching, false teaching and false prophecy because many of us do not have the time to get to know God nor have the Holy Spirit and the understanding of God's word. Imagine someone who works mornings to evening Monday to Friday only opens the bible on Sundays and even if they do read during the week, do they spend time studying it? This has lead to mass deception and acceptance of error.

In truth THEY WERE NEVER SENT BY GOD OR HIS SON IN THE FIRST PLACE

1 John 4 the Living Bible

[1] Dearly loved friends, don’t always believe everything you hear just because someone says it is a message from God: test it first to see if it really is. For there are many false teachers around,
[2] and the way to find out if their message is from the Holy Spirit is to ask: Does it really agree that Jesus Christ, God’s Son, actually became man with a human body? If so, then the message is from God.
[3] If not, the message is not from God but from one who is against Christ, like the Antichrist you have heard about who is going to come, and his attitude of enmity against Christ is already abroad in the world.
[4] Dear young friends, you belong to God and have already won your fight with those who are against Christ because there is someone in your hearts who is stronger than any evil teacher in this wicked world.
[5] These men belong to this world, so, quite naturally, they are concerned about worldly affairs and the world pays attention to them.
[6] But we are children of God; that is why only those who have walked and talked with God will listen to us. Others won’t. That is another way to know whether a message is really from God; for if it is, the world won’t listen to it. 😀😁