₦airaland Forum

Maeve7:
Yeah, right. The hardest work in the world.

IbeOkehie:
The gap between classes doesn't matter. Liberals emphasize the gap to stoke envy and ginger up votes.

Jeff Bezos started Amazon in 1995 with $300K and is now worth over $100 billion.

Around that time I was in the lower working class and now I'm in the middle class. Someone who was in college around the same time as me now earns double my own income working for Amazon. Bezos started with a car and now owns private jet and yacht, me I started in the USA walking to work and now I own cars.

So what the hell does it matter to me or her what Bezos is worth? All three of us have gained significant increases in our wealth and well being. Which is actually the major advantage of liberal capitalism, that the rising tide of a free market lifts all boats. There should be no complaints about inequality if there's broad improvement in living standards. In fact that is THE economic definition of DEVELOPMENT, anyone can look it up.

And here's the other thing - there is NO SOLUTION FOR INEQUALITY. It's a condition of nature. Even in Communist North Korea the President sure lives better than the bus drivers. It's like complaining that the sun rises every morning. Again, what's the point? Really.

The research cited from Pew and other places was specifically meant to shed more light on the truth that the middle class is shrinking. Yes, but where are those middle class people going? The LONG TERM evidence in the USA is that more middle class people are moving UPWARD to the upper class THAN DOWNWARD to the lower class. It explains a lot.

As for Red States vs Blue States, the summary argument is simple and straightforward. Same argument I made to someone on this Nairaland who was going on and on about how Europe (I think Germany?) is better than the USA. Compare migration numbers.

There's an EPIC POPULATION MIGRATION away from Blue States to Red States. No, it's not the weather...check the migration pattern between Indiana and Illinois for instance. Here's a stunning stat for liberals - for the first time since the end of slavery, Black Americans are now LEAVING the State of Illinois and their major destinations are the Slave States of the Confederacy.

As for FINANCIAL CONDITIONS, anyone can look up the current deficits and general financial health indicators such as credit ratings of California & New York vs Texas and Tennessee. California is a financial disaster. This is big news RIGHT NOW ....I'm surprised at anyone citing Blue States as financially stable. Those states are broke and that's why they're taxing their residents heavily. Petrol Tax is set to go up AGAIN in California by 60 cents in the next month or so.

Ahhhh, wetin again? I don tire....there was the CEO thingy...



Well thanks for acknowledging they deserve more. They deserve whatever the market price is for CEO's. There's nothing else to say about that other than to encourage those who think they can do better to just go ahead and start companies based on their notions of equitable pay. This is one reason why labour unions are a joke. Why try dictating to management when they can get together and form their own company and implement their own rules? They have thousands of members and can easily raise the capital required.



Nigerians need to stop looking at the NOW and pay more attention to the HOW. The average CEO that you see is not a product of his or her effort alone. The point has been made over and over that SUCCESS is a generational pursuit. The bountiful RESULTS that have become targets of envy are the accummulation of labour, blood, sweat and tears invested over generations. That is how INHERITANCE works and it's not just money. Look at sports & entertainment, it's the same thing.

Notice how so many Asian Indian CEO's like Vivek Ramaswamy or top politicians like Rishi Sunak are children of medical doctors? The father of Kemi Badenoch is a medical doctor too. It takes a lot of work to qualify and practice as a medical doctor and then pour the accummulated capital into a child who goes on to achieve superlative performance. Again, nobody falls from the sky with capital.

Anyway I don tire. Death to Socialism, liberalism and leftism

Good Luck to Nigerians.

Gerrard59:
The world today is much wealthier than during the '60s. There is less poverty today than 100 years ago. People live longer these days than 50 years ago. All thanks to human ingenuity and capitalism. Fine, in the face of declining birth rates, something has to change. But we should remember the past and now.

People in the 1900s would be terribly envious of the comforts and standard of living someone in 2024 enjoys. Capitalism did that. Humans are naturally greedy, and so far, that is the only economic system that caters to that trait. Unsurprisingly, it is the only economic system that has pulled more people out of poverty than any other economic system.

bemeruca:
Take Elon Musk and Tesla for example. if a CEO's leadership results in a billion-dollar increase in company valuation, a multi-million-dollar salary might be seen as a justified return on investment.

Elon promised this and took all the risk.

bemeruca:
Work difficulty is not a measure of what one is paid.

Gerrard59:
The world today is much wealthier than during the '60s. There is less poverty today than 100 years ago. People live longer these days than 50 years ago. All thanks to human ingenuity and capitalism. Fine, in the face of declining birth rates, something has to change. But we should remember the past and now.

People in the 1900s would be terribly envious of the comforts and standard of living someone in 2024 enjoys. Capitalism did that. Humans are naturally greedy, and so far, that is the only economic system that caters to that trait. Unsurprisingly, it is the only economic system that has pulled more people out of poverty than any other economic system.

Maeve7:
Nobody has argued the opposite.

GloriousGbola:
my guy

this is conservative propaganda

and i am not sure the UHG ceo is someone you should be referencing - unless you are cool with denying legitimate health claims for profit - since greed is good

GloriousGbola:
greed is good.

this is the capitalism that conservatives are fanboying over

this is just one example of where the us is in the pursuit of shareholder value

cococandy:
And if the business fails, what do you think happens?
You think he assumes the loss since he took the risk?

No. In America he’ll get billions of tax payer dollars in bailouts so that he doesn’t have to suffer the consequences of the risk he took that didn’t pay off. And who suffers for it, the general population. Because our money is being used to bail them out and subsidize them so they can keep saying they’re running billion dollar businesses.

The funds that we can’t put into healthcare because “who will pay for it?” The funds we can’t use to feed children in school because that would be welfare and welfare is bad. The funds that we can’t use to pay for maternity leave. Everything that the general population could benefit from can be done if billionaires were a little less greedy. If they hadn’t lobbied and basically bought out govt as their little errand boys.

So next time when you guys are rushing to respond to posts, understand where the commenter is coming from.

No one is jealous or envious of them. That line of thinking is so elementary I can’t even begin to comprehend why it’s being insinuated and not just by you. SMH

raumdeuter:
They have their own metrics for approving and denying. The way they have denied some, they have also approved many and saved many lives

If it's easy you can dump them and get other insurance or form your own insurance where you approve everyone and see how long you last

Insurance has denied my claims before many times and I was pissed. During a winter freeze one of my houses pipe froze and caused a leak. I had to fix it for a certain amount and lodge tenant in a hotel. I filed claims they told me I haven't met the deductible. I cursed them under my breathe and moved on
I knew they were right based on what I signed up for.

It's business, when I run my own business I will state what I also want and get people to comply

cococandy:
Sorry Ibe I hate to break it to you that the improvement in your life doesn’t mean anything if a simple medical bill or ICU stay can render you bankrupt & homeless. Because both your lives got better in the time frame doesn’t mean the liberal capitalism worked in both you guys favor.

It may not matter to you what he’s worth, but it should matter to you that public funds are used to subsidize their businesses. You guys seem to look at the conversation like people are jealous of them. No we’re saying stop investing public funds into them because they are supposed to make life easier for the simple guy. We’ve seen that they don’t. Whatever profits they making isn’t going back into the public pot.

The billions he received in subsidies could fund a social program that helps make sure middle class families are not being effed over by a small illness or accident. And somehow he would still be a billionaire. His luxuries that he worked hard for would still be his.

You really want to compare blue states versus red states? After red states are getting subsidized by blue states?

Me sef don tire too.

Good luck to you.

Maeve7:
That‘s what I have been saying from the beginning.

cococandy:
You can’t be serious. Tell me you are joking.

Because there’s no way you’re comparing a broken pipe to life saving healthcare that the health insurance promised to cover only to find a way to weasel out of at the last minute when one’s life is on the line. They’re changing their medication coverage mid term, changing what providers they accept , changing what procedure they’ll cover, all of this after their clients have signed up and paid for years.

When someone is on their literal death bed you’re saying they can go find another insurance company after they’ve been paying into the system they currently have for probably decades? How? With their now preexisting condition?

People are crying about how their loved ones died after being denied care then the insurance sends them a letter saying they’ve been approved for whatever lifesaving treatment they needed and had been begging for. The cruelty is the point.

raumdeuter:
How much have they given back to the society in form of taxes they pay, jobs they create and innovation they lead

Bezos makes sure you can order anything from your phone and get it at your doorstep in hours, Musk is mass producing electric cars. These guys have made the country significantly better and our lives way easier

basilico:
Ijebos
What is wrong with this proposition.

raumdeuter:
It's business.

cococandy:
Taxes? No they take more money from us than they pay in taxes. Some years they pay 0 in taxes. So that’s not a net benefit to the country.

They created jobs and are innovative? . They received labor in exchange. And the laborer received money in exchange for giving them labor. They don’t need extra rewards for creating labor that they benefited from. Innovation? Is he not getting paid for his innovation? My prime account is $140 dollars for membership. Everyone who uses that innovative service pays for it. Everyone who buys the mass produced electric car pays for it. They’re not providing free innovative services to the public. They get their fair compensation from the money we give in exchange.

Why should public funds be given on top of what we already pay?

cococandy:
Gotcha. Maybe human lives shouldn’t be business.

Or at the very least you guys can stop voting against access to affordable care for those who can’t afford insurance.

raumdeuter:
The high prices are not solely due to capitalism but partly caused by excessive government regulation. The FDA approval process is lengthy and expensive, which limits competition and keeps prices high. Capitalists and conservatives always preach against smaller govt

the insulin market in the U.S. is dominated by a small number of manufacturers, creating sort of monopoly which is anti capitalism. Encouraging market entry for more manufacturers through deregulation could lower prices.

capitalism, while sometimes imperfect, is responsible for driving the innovation that created insulin and other life-saving medications in the first place

Without the innovations driven by capitalism we won't even get it. We should be grateful for capitalism for the world we live in today. Someone said having constant hot water was not a thing just 50yrs ago

The average CEO that you see is not a product of his or her effort alone. The point has been made over and over that SUCCESS is a generational pursuit. The bountiful RESULTS that have become targets of envy are the accummulation of labour, blood, sweat and tears invested over generations. That is how INHERITANCE works and it's not just money. Look at sports & entertainment, it's the same thing.

Around that time I was in the lower working class and now I'm in the middle class. Someone who was in college around the same time as me now earns double my own income working for Amazon. Bezos started with a car and now owns private jet and yacht, me I started in the USA walking to work and now I own cars.

raumdeuter:
Someone has to pay for it
The doctors won't treat anyone for free, the hospitals are not free. Medications are not free.
It's either individual use their insurance to pay or govt pays by increasing everyone's tax burden

Someone has to pay for it

Magnoliaa:
LMAO.

The problem with you guys...you, Gerrard and others like you is that you're actually not as "principled" or have your values rooted in reality as you'd like to think.

You're actually more more of a "sheeple," and fanboys, and detached from reality as the "extreme" leftists and socialists you like to point fingers at.

You hammer all the time that inequality is a "fact of nature," and then still turn around to insist that the people who got to the top did it through their sheer hardwork, will, personal effort, etc.

You guys will "justify" why institutions like colonialism existed in the past or why wars were waged (mEn hAd tO Be dOmiNaNt tO cOnQuEr LaNd), but in the 21st century, you want us to believe that the offspring of colonialists who are big capitalists today or came from a line of monarchs are rich because they've put in the work, and that other people are not like them is just because they are not doing enough.

Nepotism, crime proceeds, illegality, unethical business dealings, even backed by state power, doesn't exist in your worldview. (And I am not saying this is the case of every wealthy person).

You literally were arguing why two people cannot produce the same result in a similar job...so how do you reconcile that with the belief that "hard work can get you to the top?" When realistically, only one (or a few) person can be the best or the better?

If by virtue of nature/natural abilities, some can scale up, and be successful, then no matter social abilities or capitalistic tools other employ, then they just cannot measure up. You cannot believe that there is an 'inherent worth or equality/equity' to capitalism that gives people a level playing field, and that everyone who gets into the playground, and follows the rules, can replicate the same level of success as Bezos, and his kind and still believe that humans are not equal. So ultimately, capitalism WILL favour people who are suited for its dynamics. And if you believe everyone should have a personality or lifestyle required to be mega-successful in a capitalist world, or else they are failed in some way, that just says more about your small-mindedness.

In your only the fittest survive in a cutthroat world, where does your exchanging back and forth words with strangers on a forum fit in? Like you likely wouldn't survive in a world that stringently fit into your 'rules and machismo are the order of the day' perspective. The growth of humanities alongside the physical/material world has also made the world much more livable and enjoyable.

And you've shifted the goalpost.

The factor of generational wealth to success negates the claims of hard work, etc.

I mean, Maeve's question, and I assume we're talking about a baseline situation here, where all things are equal: what "hard" work does a CEO do more than the average, toiling workers under them?

What is hard work to a person who got a business funding running into millions from their will parents will not be hard work for someone is starting out fresh out of college and looking for a job, even in the same field.

By the time the college graduate takes your advice and rose up to become a CEO (which thousands of other college graduates will not), the founder who got funded who have more than trippled his wealth and then pass it on.

cc: Ibeokehie

bemeruca:
Yeah, because how you define difficult may deviate from how everyone else defines it.

So go and be a CEO if you can. Then tell us if it's easy to get the job or not. Me and raumdeuter will wait.

what do Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk really have in common? Sure, they’re all tech billionaires, super smart people, savvy innovators and successful entrepreneurs. But there’s another thing: they all had families who helped them at the very beginning.

Bill Gates’s mom introduced him to executives at IBM, which helped him forge a deal for his first operating system MS-DOS.

Bezos’s parents were early investors in Amazon.

Musk comes from a wealthy, South African background.

Among other well-known entrepreneurs, Mark Zuckerberg reportedly took a $100,000 loan from his father to start Facebook.

Michael Dell’s parents offered some seed money for his fledging computer business.

Nike founder Phil Knight credits his parents for helping him start the company too.

All of these men came from upper-middle-class families and of course none of them owe their success entirely to mom and dad. But without their parents’ help, be it financial or otherwise, who knows where they – or the world – would be today?

Family money and background plays a critical role when it comes to starting up a business. In fact, it’s one of the primary sources of funding for startups, well ahead of other options like bank loans and venture capital. And the more money mom and dad have, the better. A new study confirms this.

“There is a strong connection between your parent’s income and your chances of becoming a startup entrepreneur, with those from a strong financial background having a higher chance of becoming entrepreneurs,” said Shira Greenberg, the chief economist Israel’s ministry of finance, in a recent report conducted by his agency and reported by the Jerusalem Post.

The study – which used demographic, academic and financial data from Israeli entrepreneurs between the ages of 25 and 35 and their families – found that the income of an entrepreneur’s parents was the most important factor towards the likelihood of starting up a business.

“Having strong financial support can help someone who is interested in setting up a startup and providing a financial safety net in the case of failure,” the report said.

The Israeli study correlates to the 2013 findings of University of California, Berkeley economists Ross Levine and Rona Rubenstein, who looked at the shared traits of entrepreneurs and found that most were white, male, and highly educated. “If one does not have money in the form of a family with money, the chances of becoming an entrepreneur drop quite a bit,” Levine told Quartz.

And even though having money is important, it’s not all that. It’s the family environment that has a big impact on the startup entrepreneur.

According to the Jerusalem Post’s report on the study, there was “a significant connection between the parents’ level of education and entrepreneurship” and “that connection is even stronger if the parents studied science or technology”. The study did not find a difference if this impetus came from either the father or mother, as long as it was there.

Being intelligent wasn’t a factor either. The Israeli study found that even those that scored lower on mathematic achievement tests but came from a family with higher income and wealth had more of a chance becoming an entrepreneur.

Obviously, none of this necessarily translates into success. There’s a difference between starting a business and actually making it profitable and valuable. Bezos, Gates, Musk and all the other billionaires who got help from their parents took advantage of that help and then used their brains, work ethic – and a little luck – to build great companies. But none of this would have happened if they didn’t at least start somewhere.

Governments can offer tax breaks, grants and special loans. Non-profits can provide assistance to fledging entrepreneurs. Big companies can make strategic investments. But in the end, one of the most important factors – if not the most important – for entrepreneurship is mom and dad. Come to think of it, doesn’t that account for a lot of other things too?

cococandy:
That’s why I don’t respond to half the stuff they post sometimes. They keep coming to conclusions that no one implied to. Or purposefully misrepresenting what is being said. Sigh

Otherwise you’re going to find yourself in a round about argument defending something you didn’t even say. 😂

Maeve7:


I know. It‘s because it’s either black or white in their limited capacity to reason. You have to be a communist if you point out the flaws in capitalism. It’s one or the other or too complex for them to comprehend.

GloriousGbola:
i read a story years back about how dangote had a gambling problem in his youth. he was given seed money to start a business. he blew the money. he was given money again. he blew it again. then on hajj in mecca, his uncle forced him to swear he would never gamble again. today dangote is nigeria /africa's richest man. but he got three chances in addition to resources at his disposal

elon musk was literally bailed out by the us government

cococandy:
Oh Gerard has justified/excused racism on here severally.

So I’ve no doubt he would sure as hell have been on the side of the colonizers because ✨cApitLisM✨. With excuses like “who’ll plow the fields of cotton if manufacturers can’t have slaves?”

🙄

Most times u just scroll past his comments.