₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
I am replying your initial position here;

funny but this here is the truth

What you wrote
"Do a bit of study and tell me the difference between

1) Heavenly realms in Ephesians 6 v 12 (epouraniois in greek) and;
2) Their place in heaven in Revelation 12 v 8 (topos ouranō in greek)"

And what I responded
You that has studied why don't you say the answer

But you claim you response that "If you read Revelation 12 v 11-12 carefully, I hope you know that was referring to the dead in Christ.
Those still alive in Christ are to put on the armour of God and keep on fighting - Ephesians 6 v 12." Which is supposed to answer the difference between heavenly places and heaven is associated with my quote of Revelation 12:10.. claiming it responds to this

Is a lie for there is no connection only confusion.

OkCornel:
Your method is neither right nor sufficient. It's laughable at best

🤧Go and dispute with Jesus! 😂

The verses due to your narrow-mindedness and hasty generalization which you didn't take cognizance to, before spewing out a false conclusion are the ones dismantling your premise!

gohf:
funny but this here is the truth

What you wrote
"Do a bit of study and tell me the difference between

1) Heavenly realms in Ephesians 6 v 12 (epouraniois in greek) and;
2) Their place in heaven in Revelation 12 v 8 (topos ouranō in greek)"

And what I responded
You that has studied why don't you say the answer

But you claim you response that "If you read Revelation 12 v 11-12 carefully, I hope you know that was referring to the dead in Christ.
Those still alive in Christ are to put on the armour of God and keep on fighting - Ephesians 6 v 12." Which is supposed to answer the difference between heavenly places and heaven is associated with my quote of Revelation 12:10.. claiming it responds to this

Is a lie for there is no connection only confusion.

So you’re telling us Revelation 12 v 10 is isolated from Revelation 12 v 11-12? 🤷

You’re also telling us Satan has been hurled down to earth in Revelation 12 v 10?

OkCornel:
Use that same google and paste the answers here. You claim it's been fulfilled, paste the answers here.
Who fulfilled the abomination that causes desolation in Matthew 24?

Patiently waiting

Am not doing that!
You are going to do the research you failed to do before spewing a false absolute statement!

If you had done your homework; you would have known better than to commit this doctrinal error!

Gabrielshow24:
🤧Go and dispute with Jesus! 😂

The verses due to your narrow-mindedness and hasty generalization which you didn't take cognizance to, before spewing out a false conclusion are the ones dismantling your premise!

So Jesus gave you the laughable method you’re using to discuss here?

Interesting

Gabrielshow24:
Am not doing that!
You are going to do the research you failed to do before spewing a false absolute statement!

If you had done your homework; you would have known better than to commit this doctrinal error!

What you’re really telling us is that you’ve been trapped and you have no answers as to who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24.

Humour me some more

OkCornel:
So Jesus gave you the laughable method you’re using to discuss here?

Interesting

Who's talking about method?
Am talking about Jesus' statements that dismantle your initial premise.

That's what I am here to show.
If you can dismiss the SUPREME AUTHORITY OF JESUS then I will be obliged to heed whatever you say but if you can't then hush it and begin to see reasons why your conclusion was wrong in the first place!!!

OkCornel:
What you’re really telling us is that you’ve been trapped and you have no answers as to who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24.

Humour me some more

Contrary to evidence, you are the one looking for historical timemark here is a verse that has a well known historical timemark to it.

Disprove it🤧!!!

Gabrielshow24:
Who's talking about method?
Am talking about Jesus' statements that dismantle your initial premise.

That's what I am here to show.
If you can dismiss the SUPREME AUTHORITY OF JESUS then I will be obliged to heed whatever you say but if you can't then hush it and begin to see reasons why your conclusion was wrong in the first place!!!

Great, so when did Jesus see Satan fall like lightening from heaven in Luke 10 v 18 hmmm?

Somehow Satan regained access to heaven after he was cast out before the creation of heaven and earth abi? 🥱

OkCornel:
Are you telling us the tribulations believers are facing right now is the great tribulation in Revelation 12 v 17 and Revelation 13?

This is what is written
Rev.12.17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (NKJV)


And Revelation 13 speaks of the deceptions of the devil and his agents
For example
Rev.13.14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. (NKJV)

Is this when you think the great tribulations started?


And Jesus said
Matt.24.21 - For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt.24.22 - And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
Matt.24.23 - "Then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ!' or "There!' do not believe it.
Matt.24.24 - For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Now this is what I asked you; If there are no tribulations why are you even wrestling?


Did I say we are in the great tribulations?
And even if we are, it means the sixth seal has been opened and the trumpets have been sounding

Did you not read Revelation 7 I quoted
Rev.7.14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


If there is no point to your question will there be a point in receiving an answer?

Gabrielshow24:
Contrary to evidence, you are the one looking for historical timemark here is a verse that has a well known historical timemark to it.

Disprove it🤧!!!

The roundabout games, I know this is what a defeated debater resorts to when he no longer has answers to defend his position.

My position is crystal clear, the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 is yet to happen, but since you insist otherwise, kindly prove your position with historical evidence.


Patiently waiting

OkCornel:
So you’re telling us Revelation 12 v 10 is isolated from Revelation 12 v 11-12? 🤷

You’re also telling us Satan has been hurled down to earth in Revelation 12 v 10?

Read the scripture and the bible again, whether you agree or not is your choice but do not say you were ignorant for the truth is here before you today.

nations! (NKJV)
This happened when Jesus won the battle
That's why verse 15
Isa.14.15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. (NKJV)

This is yet to happen, and like Revelation says it happens just before the millennium reign


Ezekiel prophecies it as well
Ezek.28.8 - They shall throw you down into the Pit, And you shall die the death of the slain In the midst of the seas.
Ezek.28.9 - "Will you still say before him who slays you, "I am a god'? But you shall be a man, and not a god, In the hand of him who slays you.

It has not yet happened. Yes he was cast out from God's presence as Moses wrote in Genesis and roamed the earth but he sneaked into the assembly of God's children when they present themselves before the LORD.



I hope you all understand. God bless

gohf:
This is what is written
Rev.12.17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (NKJV)


And Revelation 13 speaks of the deceptions of the devil and his agents
For example
Rev.13.14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. (NKJV)

Is this when you think the great tribulations started?


And Jesus said
Matt.24.21 - For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt.24.22 - And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
Matt.24.23 - "Then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ!' or "There!' do not believe it.
Matt.24.24 - For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Now this is what I asked you; If there are no tribulations why are you even wrestling?


Did I say we are in the great tribulations?
And even if we are, it means the sixth seal has been opened and the trumpets have been sounding

Did you not read Revelation 7 I quoted
Rev.7.14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


If there is no point to your question will there be a point in receiving an answer?

The early church faced tribulations and persecution, and we all know that is not the great tribulation which is still a future event.

That being said, how did you conclude Satan and his Angels are already cast out of heaven to earth or the war in heaven has happened for that matter without the woman being chased into the wilderness to receive protection for 1,260 days while the rest of her offspring face the great tribulation in Revelation 12 v 17?

gohf:
Read the scripture and the bible again, whether you agree or not is your choice but do not say you were ignorant for the truth is here before you today.

nations! (NKJV)
This happened when Jesus won the battle
That's why verse 15
Isa.14.15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. (NKJV)

This is yet to happen, and like Revelation says it happens just before the millennium reign


Ezekiel prophecies it as well
Ezek.28.8 - They shall throw you down into the Pit, And you shall die the death of the slain In the midst of the seas.
Ezek.28.9 - "Will you still say before him who slays you, "I am a god'? But you shall be a man, and not a god, In the hand of him who slays you.

It has not yet happened. Yes he was cast out from God's presence as Moses wrote in Genesis and roamed the earth but he sneaked into the assembly of God's children when they present themselves before the LORD.



I hope you all understand. God bless

Was Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 addressed to Satan? Or the king of Babylon and king of tyre respectively.

Context!

OkCornel:
The roundabout games, I know this is what defeated debater resorts to when he no longer has answers to defend his position.

My position is crystal clear, the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 is yet to happen, but since you insist otherwise, kindly prove your position with historical evidence.


Patiently waiting

I think the verse says something about Judea😂.
I wonder if that is still futuristic!
You don't want to accept that the verse seems to LITERALLY suggest that the abomination spoken of by Daniel is fulfilled!
And still elucidates some aspects of the prophecy which is yet to come!

So irrespective of how you interpret it, it negates your initial premise, ranting "great tribulation" here and there.

After all it's the LORD OF HEAVEN that spoke those verses👀

Gabrielshow24:
I think the verse says something about Judea😂.
I wonder if that is still futuristic!
You don't want to accept that the verse seems to LITERALLY suggest that the abomination spoken of by Daniel is fulfilled!
And still elucidates some aspects of the prophecy which is yet to come!

So irrespective of how you interpret it, it negates your initial premise, ranting "great tribulation" here and there.

After all it's the LORD OF HEAVEN that spoke those verses👀

You still haven’t told us who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24.

We are still waiting

OkCornel:
You still haven’t told us who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24.

We are still waiting

In all sincerity try and answer this question; was Jesus being specific about the tribulation that was to come by adding "Judea" ? Or not?

Consider wisely, the logical implications of your response; as this gravely affects your stance


Secondly: Tell me, If Jesus really were describing the end of the world, why would it only affect those in Judea? And why would fleeing to the mountains make any difference?

Be sincere and answer!

Gabrielshow24:
In all sincerity try and answer this question; was Jesus being specific about the tribulation that was to come by adding "Judea" ? Or not?

Consider wisely, the logical implications of your response; as this gravely affects your stance


Secondly: Tell me: If Jesus really were describing the end of the world, why would it only affect those in Judea? And why would fleeing to the mountains make any difference?

Be sincere and answer!

Who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24? We are still awaiting your answer

OkCornel:
Who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24? We are still awaiting your answer

You're not sincere with yourself.
Let me post the verse so that the world will see and be the judge both of the HISTORICAL👀 context and meaning of them;

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Now let's do this one more time!
According to history when did the inhabitants of Judaea flee?

Gabrielshow24:
You're not sincere with yourself.
Let me post the verse so that the world will see and be the judge both of the HISTORICAL👀 context and meaning of them;

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Now let's do this one more time!
According to history when did the inhabitants of Judaea flee?

Can you tell us who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24?

We are still awaiting your response. Unless you’re telling us whenever the inhabitants of Judea flee, it automatically means the abomination of desolation in the temple happened.

That being said, who in history fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 and declared himself god in the temple according to 2 Thessalonians 2 v 3-4.

We are patiently awaiting your response.

OkCornel:
Can you tell us who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24?

We are still awaiting your response. Unless you’re telling us whenever the inhabitants of Judea flee, it automatically means the abomination of desolation in the temple happened.

That being said, who in history fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 and declared himself god in the temple according to 2 Thessalonians 2 v 3-4.

We are patiently awaiting your response.

Those are JESUS words!🤭
And all the more reason or evidence to suggest that the "great tribulation" has been fulfilled!

Once again disprove JESUS then I will believe your nonsensical conclusion!

But if you can't then keep quiet and be open to reason!!!

This will not help you!!!

Gabrielshow24:
Those are JESUS words!🤭
And all the more reason or evidence to suggest that the "great tribulation" has been fulfilled!

Once again disprove JESUS then I will believe your nonsensical conclusion!

But if you can't then keep quiet and be open to reason!!!

This will not help you!!!

So who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24, and declared himself as god in temple in 2 Thessalonians 2 v 3-4?

We are waiting for your historical evidences to answer the question

Once again since you dodged the question it was the romans that sacked the temple even recorded by Josephus citing Daniel as regards the Romans treading in the holy of holies fulfilling the prophecies of Jesus!; before it was later sacked by Islam after on.

That's the historical context!
"That's why the verse says those in Judaea should flee"

But it doesn't end there,. Jesus said "after the tribulations of that time" then they will see the son of man clothed in Glory!

But since this has not yet happened we can only deduce that we are still in the tribulation!

So my guy stop capping rubbish!

Certainly, it had been good for me to die before I had seen the house of God full of so many abominations, or these sacred places that ought not to be trodden upon at random, filled with the feet of these blood-shedding villains.

Josephus (Wars 4:3:10)

So there is an historical timemark for the supposed tribulation that's why some allude that it has happened others say because of futuristic and unfulfilled clauses it's still in the future others also argue that we are currently in it!

And it's not literal but rather a metaphorical meaning!

I can continue to cite Jewish Talmuds, ancient historians that quote the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy in the occupation of Jerusalem by the Romans!

Gabrielshow24:
So there is an historical timemark for the supposed tribulation that's why some allude that it has happened others say because of futuristic and unfulfilled clauses it's still in the future others also argue that we are currently in it!

And it's not literal but rather a metaphorical meaning!

I can continue to cite Jewish Talmuds, ancient historians that quote the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy in the occupation of Jerusalem by the Romans!

So from the accounts of Josephus, the Talmuds and historical records available, who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 and declared himself god in the temple in 2 Thessalonians 2 v 3-4?

I’m patiently waiting for the name of the person and the year this happened.

Irrespective of the different views they all agree upon the fact that the "desolation of the temple" had already been fulfilled! Exactly in the same way JESUS said it will!

So judging by your initial sentiments that after "the tribulation then the angelic war in heaven!"
So inferring by this I can say that the angelic war has been occurred because the tribulation which has occurred either in part or fullness has taking place.

So brother you are not smart at all!
Either way, it negates your premise!!!

Try as hard you can, you can't invalidate the authority of Jesus!

Do you still want more?

Gabrielshow24:
Once again since you dodged the question it was the romans that sacked the temple even recorded by Josephus citing Daniel as regards the Romans treading in the holy of holies fulfilling the prophecies of Jesus!; before it was later sacked by Islam after on.

That's the historical context!
"That's why the verse says those in Judaea should flee"

But it doesn't end there,. Jesus said "after the tribulations of that time" then they will see the son of man clothed in Glory!

But since this has not yet happened we can only deduce that we are still in the tribulation!

So my guy stop capping rubbish!

At the bolded, tell me another joke. So believers are also being persecuted to accept the mark of the beast too right?

Buhahahaha

Gabrielshow24:
Irrespective of the different views they all agree upon the fact that the "desolation of the temple" had already been fulfilled! Exactly in the same way JESUS said it will!

So judging by your initial sentiments that after "the tribulation then the angelic war in heaven!"
So inferring by this I can say that the angelic war has been occurred because the tribulation which has occurred either in part or fullness has taking place.

So brother you are not smart at all!
Either way, it negates your premise!!!

Try as hard you can, you can't invalidate the authority of Jesus!

Do you still want more?

So you can’t point out the name of the person that fulfilled the abomination in Matthew 24 and declared himself god in the temple in 2 Thessalonians 2 v 3-4 after reading through Josephus’ accounts, the Jewish Talmud and other historical accounts available?

OkCornel:
So from the accounts of Josephus, the Talmuds and historical records available, who fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 and declared himself god in the temple in 2 Thessalonians 2 v 3-4?

I’m patiently waiting for the name of the person and the year this happened.

Don't get things wrong
1) the temple has been DESOLATED!
2) revelation even states some of the personalities such as the Kings that are to reign are already but some are still to come!

This along with the words of Jesus: "After the tribulation of that time", "the son of man will come"

Irrespective of the tribulation that occurred remotely in Judaea there is an encompassing tribulation which is still to come because of some clauses!

So as far Jesus is concerned there are two interpretations and they don't help your case!

1) either the tribulation which Jesus spoke about is manifested some other unknown events are still to take place

2) or from the time of the tribulation of Jerusalem to the time of Jesus' second coming .the entire world is in a state of "Tribulation"!

These are the logically implications of the statement of Jesus but since you have hinged your entire goalpost on the chronological order of tribulation then fall.

HENCE I ARGUE AND POSIT USING YOUR ARGUMENTS AGAINST YOU THAT SATAN HAS FALLEN!!!

Gabrielshow24:
Don't get things wrong
1) the temple has been DESOLATED!
2) revelation even states some of the personalities such as the Kings that are to reign are already but some are still to come!

This along with the words of Jesus: "After the tribulation of that time", "the son of man will come"

Irrespective of the tribulation that occurred remotely in Judaea there is an encompassing tribulation which is still to come because of some clauses!

So as far Jesus is concerned there are two interpretations and they don't help your case!

1) either the tribulation which Jesus spoke about is manifested some other unknown events are still to take place

2) or from the time of the tribulation of Jerusalem to the time of Jesus' second coming .the entire world is in a state of "Tribulation"!

These are the logically implications of the statement of Jesus but since you have hinged your entire goalpost on the chronological order of tribulation then fall.

HENCE I ARGUE AND POSIT USING YOUR ARGUMENTS AGAINST YOU THAT SATAN HAS FALLEN!!!

Who committed the abomination of desolation in the temple (Matthew 24) and declared himself as god in the temple? (2 Thessalonians 2 v 3-4)

Read the accounts of Josephus, the Jewish Talmuds and other historical accounts.

Give us the name of the person and the year it happened.

We are all waiting

OkCornel:
So you can’t point out the name of the person that fulfilled the abomination in Matthew 24 and declared himself god in the temple in 2 Thessalonians 2 v 3-4 after reading through Josephus’ accounts, the Jewish Talmud and other historical accounts available?

🤦 You and circular reasoning 5 & 6!

If you were smart enough you will see what I am bringing out here.

You posited initially that I give you an historical timemark.

Here it is!
I can likewise commit the self same fallacy of exactness by showing you from the same bible that it categorically emphasizes "the DESOLATION OF THE TEMPLE"!

Which interpreted literally has been fulfilled!!!

But metaphorically because of some certain clauses and events which have not yet happened suggests a global tribulation

You claimed everything according to scriptures is chronological and sequential, now I have brought this verse of JESUS that totally destroys your premise and renders your arguments null and void.