₦airaland Forum

Islam Is Idolatry And Paganism?

Historians like Vaqqidi have said. Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave twenty-seven names of pre-Islamic deities. From the Qur’an itself, we can name up to nine of these idols. The Ka’bah, housing many of these gods, has remained the temple of Allah and which Muslims revere and go to worship and kiss in the Mecca during the Hajj. It is significant to remind ourselves that even if a Muslim is not in Mecca, he has to face the direction of this shrine, Ka’bah, while praying every time. History says pagans in Arabia had been visiting Ka’bah on pilgrimage centuries before Islam started at all. Foreign merchants and Arabs faced the Ka’bah in prayer because that was where most of their gods were deposited. Many of the gods were brought by these merchants from their countries.

Interestingly, Muslims want to accept that Mecca was already being worshipped at this Ka’bah shrine in Mecca by Arabs and pagans before Mohammed came. They do not want to accept the fact that even the ways hajj was being performed in those days by the pagans: the shaving of hair, the running around the Ka’bah, the kissing of the black stone, the sacrifices, etc.

Some Muslims get flared up when they are confronted with these facts. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic
literature has prove this. In the Quran itself, we see that pre-Islamic pagan Arabs made their strongest oaths in the name
of Allah because they believed he was the most powerful of their gods (Surah 6:109), He was already regarded by the pagans as the creator, the lord of the shrine, the lord of Ka'bah, and the territorial god of the city of Mecca. Ka'bah was also known as "baithu'llah" ("house of allah". All other idol shrines in other regions in Arabia were also called "baitullah'. Mohammed said he had been called to worship "the Lord of this house (that is the shrine of Ka'bah)" (Surah 106:3; 27:91; 6:109). In that Surah 27:91, Allah was called "the Lord of this city (Mecca)". That means he was a territorial god. That is the reason for the pilgrimage, and the reason why every Muslim must face the direction of Mecca while praying. If he faces elsewhere he knows he is not facing Allah.

Apart from Allah, other major deities being worshipped by these pagans of Mecca are Al-lat or Allat (which is the Islamic goddesses, the feminine form of the word "allah". The other female idols being worshipped at the time are al-Uzzra and al-Manat (Surah 53:19-20), and they were all being worshipped inside the Ka'bah. According to Al-Tabari, the gharaaniq (female idols) were even regarded as daughters of Allah. Other popular idols were Wadd, Suwa, Yaguth, Ya'uq, Nasr, and Hubal which Muhammad's wife, Khadijah, too sacrificed to and worshipped because her sons to Mohammed were dying young (Surah 17:23; See also the book, The Life of Muhammad by Egyptian Islamic scholar, Mohammed Haykal (p.69).

One other proof that Allah was already being worshipped as an idol in Arabia is the fact that Mohammed's father was called Abdallah or Abdullah, meaning "the servant or slave of Allah", and yet he wasn't a Muslim! He was an idol worshipper, and was named after that idol.

Some have taken this to mean that Allah must therefore be almighty God. But What this can only prove is that Allah was alread known in Arabia to be a supernatural being. It is NOT a proof that he is God Almighty


TO BE CONTINUED

____________________________________
Book reverence: Who Is This Allah?
_____________________________________


____________________________________
Previous threads
_____________________________________

1. Mut'ah: A Divine Prostitution
2. Kaaba Of The Bedouin Tribes
3. Islam Is Idolatry And Paganism?
4. Can You Marry Or Give Out Your 9 Year Old Daughter In Marriage?

Please go ask your question in the Islamic section if your intention is not preaching to the choir that thinks Islam is pagan.

You'd get answers there.

https://www.nairaland.com/islam

I observed same

https://www.nairaland.com/8183196/like-islam-muslims-juju-religion#131471423

Let me keep this space

And this space too

Why are you afraid of the truth coming out. If there is any lie in what has been written, point it out and stop being a coward.


I was challenged by sterope, and the game is already on.

Muslims say "we are not paganist", but then go ahead practising paganism and idolatory.

budaatum:
Please go ask your question in the Islamic section if your intention is not preaching to the choir that thinks Islam is pagan.

You'd get answers there.

https://www.nairaland.com/islam

UncleAyo:
Why are you afraid of the truth coming out. If there is any lie in what has been written, point it out and stop being a coward.


I was challenged by sterope, and the game is already on.

What's annoying is you religious people constantly warring with each other, which you wouldn't do if your own god was not a pagan, which is what your god becomes if you can't obey the instructions it gave you!

Post it in the Islamic section if you are not afraid of being challenged.

UncleAyo:
Muslims say "we are not paganist", but then go ahead practising paganism and idolatory.

And what do you think this thread shows you are practising?

I'm irreligious. Get your fact straight.... Go through my posts here.

I know it pains you that I'm exposing the fakery of religions.

Updated: My use of the word "irreligous" was whimsical. There is no God or gods, angels or spirit any where. There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no life after death. These are figment of human imaginations. There is no proven existence beyond the physical. And if you want me to use the word atheist, Yes! I just don't like being tagged.

budaatum:
What's annoying is you religious people constantly warring with each other, which you wouldn't do if your own god was not a pagan, which is what your god becomes if you can't obey the instructions it gave you!

Post it in the Islamic section if you are not afraid of being challenged.

UncleAyo:
I'm irreligious. Get you fact straight.... Go through my post here.

I know it pains you that I'm exposing the fakery of religions.

I've checked your threads, and your constant posts about religion do not support your claim of being irreligious.

As for paining me, a book can not be fake, even if its content is all lies. Its how you understand those books that makes them fake or real for you.

SMH

budaatum:
I've checked your threads, and your constant posts about religion do not support your claim of being irreligious.

As for paining me, a book can not be fake, even if its content is all lies. Its how you understand those books that makes them fake or real for you.

.

Sterope:
He is a waste time, knowledge and effort. He is not willing to learn or understand. He wants to be right and doesn't even have the required capacity for what he is claiming . He is also a pagan. He wants us to be worship creations like his misguided self.

You can't open the heart of someone who believes Allah means moon god in 2024. He is lost! May God guide his soul.

I am an atheist, the 'gods are human creations' type, and I do agree he is a waste of time and space who is unwilling to learn and understand.

If he knew what the world was like before the introduction of the religious books we read, he'd be delighted and impressed that we humans created gods and the education systems that evolved out of them.

The world was not any different before the introduction of religious books. This is where Atheists think it is a gotcha. No it isn't.

Same as saying religion has caused more death or suffering. Lol.

budaatum:
I am an atheist, the 'gods are human creations' type, and I do agree he is a waste of time and space who is unwilling to learn and understand.

If he knew what the world was like before the introduction of the religious books we read, he'd be delighted and impressed that we humans created gods and the education systems that evolved out of them.

All these fake imported religions have destroyed the normal mental processes of a lot of our people.

If you are following any of the two religion, you should know for fact that:

There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no God (or god), there is no Allah, there are no angels, there are no demons, there are no spirits, there is no life after death, juju don't work, there is no eternal judgment, there is no karma, there was no historical Jesus. All those are figment of human imaginations and tools use by a very few some to control the very many others. The earlier you understand and accept these facts as facts, the happier and merrier your life and existence will be.

The religion you're currently claiming is the religion of your parents, if you were born into a different family of another religion (say Hinduism), that is the exact religion you will practice.

You were born without a religion in you, your factory reset has no religion in it. If you were to be a phone and they do factory reset on you today being a phone, there will not be anything found related to religion in your settings, files and file systems anymore; you learn religion only after your birth growing up.


Islam is idolatry and paganism, Christianity aswell is idolatry - All the world religion is idolatry, including all the Abrahamic religion. Holy communion is idolatory, bowing for a stone call Kaaba of the Bedouin tribes is also idolatory, killing of rams is idolatory, kissing or licking of a stone at mecca is idolatory, throwing of stone at pilgrimage is idolatory too.

Infact, Illah is what the Arabic call God and not Allah. Allah was one of the diety been worshiped before the invention of Islam. That is why muslims will say something like "la ilah ila huwa" meaning Allah is one Illah (God). Have you ask yourself why Prophet Mohammed's father who was an idol worshiper and who lived before the invention of islam has Allah in is name Abdullai== Abdu Allah? It is because Allah has been an idol worshiped by paganists before the Prophet received his revelations.

All Abrahamic religion are idolatory, they only package them well and condemn your heritage as evil, whereas, Nigeria was better in terms of morality, honesty and integrity before they brought the foreign religions.

In peace loving, emotional intelligence, love for neighbor, respect for sanctity of life, we are even better than those who brought those religion with primitive leaders whose morality and characters are highly questionable.

UncleAyo:
All these fake imported religions have destroyed the normal mental processes of a lot of our people.

If you are following any of the two religion, you should know for fact that:

There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no God (or god), there is no Allah, there are no angels, there are no demons, there are no spirits, there is no life after death, juju don't work, there is no eternal judgment, there is no karma, there was no historical Jesus. All those are figment of human imaginations and tools use by a very few some to control the very many others. The earlier you understand and accept these facts as facts, the happier and merrier your life and existence will be.

The religion you're currently claiming is the religion of your parents, if you were born into a different family of another religion (say Hinduism), that is the exact religion you will practice.

You were born without a religion in you, your factory reset has no religion in it. If you were to be a phone and they do factory reset on you today being a phone, there will not be anything found related to religion in your settings, files and file systems anymore; you learn religion only after your birth growing up.


Islam is idolatry and paganism, Christianity aswell is idolatry - All the world religion is idolatry, including all the Abrahamic religion. Holy communion is idolatory, bowing for a stone call Kaaba of the Bedouin tribes is also idolatory, killing of rams is idolatory, kissing or licking of a stone at mecca is idolatory, throwing of stone at pilgrimage is idolatory too.

Infact, Illah is what the Arabic call God and not Allah. Allah was one of the diety been worshiped before the invention of Islam. That is why muslims will say something like "la ilah ila huwa" meaning Allah is one Illah (God). Have you ask yourself why Prophet Mohammed's father who was an idol worshiper and who lived before the invention of islam has Allah in is name Abdullai== Abdu Allah? It is because Allah has been an idol worshiped by paganists before the Prophet received his revelations.

All Abrahamic religion are idolatory, they only package them well and condemn your heritage as evil, whereas, Nigeria was better in terms of morality, honesty and integrity before they brought the foreign religions.

In peace loving, emotional intelligence, love for neighbor, respect for sanctity of life, we are even better than those who brought those religion with primitive leaders whose morality and characters are highly questionable.

Your mumu is legendary! Juju don't work, no spirits, ect

I will not honor by replying those who are trying to divert my attention on this thread. They left the message to attack the messenger.

I expect them to critic what I wrote but they have decide to to attack me instead.



When someone resorts to cursing or using profanity in response to a disagreement because they cannot provide a valid argument to support their position, they may be engaging in ad hominem attacks or verbal abuse. Ad Hominem Attacks: This refers to attacking the person making the argument rather than addressing the argument itself. It's a logical fallacy where the focus shifts from the issue at hand to attacking the character, motives, or attributes of the person involved. Verbal Abuse: Using foul language, insults, or derogatory remarks to demean or belittle the other person. This behavior is aimed at intimidating or silencing the opponent rather than engaging in constructive debate.



Mo sese n mu eye bo lapo ni. Emi ati Sterope ti ti ese bo sokoto kanna.

Sterope:
The world was not any different before the introduction of religious books. This is where Atheists think it is a gotcha. No it isn't.

Same as saying religion has caused more death or suffering. Lol.

The world was very very different before the introduction of religious books, and worse too.

Before religious books, the masses had no books at all, and didn't go to school every Sunday, and I doubt you'd want to claim school na scam, or would you? Or is it that you are not aware that Monday to Friday school evolved out of the religious need to learn to read?

It didn't start with the Judaic religions neither, note, as the first religious book of the Greeks was Homer's Odyssey, and the Egyptians were writing books of the dead long before then, but unfortunately didn't bother teaching its reading to the masses so the gods behind it died.

P s. Only stupid ignorant people say "religion has caused more death or suffering", because historical evidence shows it did the exact opposite.

UncleAyo:
All these fake imported religions have destroyed the normal mental processes of a lot of our people.

If only this were true, but it isn't.

The fact we get to read the fabricated stories in those religious books has expanded our minds just like normal fiction and nollywood does.

The problem is that stupid people believe instead of bothering to understand what they read. But that period of ignorance too will soon pass.

UncleAyo:
Islam Is Idolatry And Paganism?

Historians like Vaqqidi have said. Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave twenty-seven names of pre-Islamic deities. From the Qur’an itself, we can name up to nine of these idols. The Ka’bah, housing many of these gods, has remained the temple of Allah and which Muslims revere and go to worship and kiss in the Mecca during the Hajj. It is significant to remind ourselves that even if a Muslim is not in Mecca, he has to face the direction of this shrine, Ka’bah, while praying every time. History says pagans in Arabia had been visiting Ka’bah on pilgrimage centuries before Islam started at all. Foreign merchants and Arabs faced the Ka’bah in prayer because that was where most of their gods were deposited. Many of the gods were brought by these merchants from their countries.

Interestingly, Muslims want to accept that Mecca was already being worshipped at this Ka’bah shrine in Mecca by Arabs and pagans before Mohammed came. They do not want to accept the fact that even the ways hajj was being performed in those days by the pagans: the shaving of hair, the running around the Ka’bah, the kissing of the black stone, the sacrifices, etc.

Some Muslims get flared up when they are confronted with these facts. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic
literature has prove this. In the Quran itself, we see that pre-Islamic pagan Arabs made their strongest oaths in the name
of Allah because they believed he was the most powerful of their gods (Surah 6:109), He was already regarded by the pagans as the creator, the lord of the shrine, the lord of Ka'bah, and the territorial god of the city of Mecca. Ka'bah was also known as "baithu'llah" ("house of allah". All other idol shrines in other regions in Arabia were also called "baitullah'. Mohammed said he had been called to worship "the Lord of this house (that is the shrine of Ka'bah)" (Surah 106:3; 27:91; 6:109). In that Surah 27:91, Allah was called "the Lord of this city (Mecca)". That means he was a territorial god. That is the reason for the pilgrimage, and the reason why every Muslim must face the direction of Mecca while praying. If he faces elsewhere he knows he is not facing Allah.

Apart from Allah, other major deities being worshipped by these pagans of Mecca are Al-lat or Allat (which is the Islamic goddesses, the feminine form of the word "allah". The other female idols being worshipped at the time are al-Uzzra and al-Manat (Surah 53:19-20), and they were all being worshipped inside the Ka'bah. According to Al-Tabari, the gharaaniq (female idols) were even regarded as daughters of Allah. Other popular idols were Wadd, Suwa, Yaguth, Ya'uq, Nasr, and Hubal which Muhammad's wife, Khadijah, too sacrificed to and worshipped because her sons to Mohammed were dying young (Surah 17:23; See also the book, The Life of Muhammad by Egyptian Islamic scholar, Mohammed Haykal (p.69).

One other proof that Allah was already being worshipped as an idol in Arabia is the fact that Mohammed's father was called Abdallah or Abdullah, meaning "the servant or slave of Allah", and yet he wasn't a Muslim! He was an idol worshipper, and was named after that idol.

Some have taken this to mean that Allah must therefore be almighty God. But What this can only prove is that Allah was alread known in Arabia to be a supernatural being. It is NOT a proof that he is God Almighty


TO BE CONTINUED

____________________________________
Book reverence: Who Is This Allah?
_____________________________________

Also, previous Threads:
1. Mut'ah: A Divine Prostitution
2. Kaaba Of The Bedouin Tribes

I wonder if you are seeking peer review or poking fun.

Did you substantiate that 9 Idols are mentioned in the Quran or blindly copy to paste?

Al-Waqidi’s works focus more on the Sirah (biographies of Muhammad) and early Islamic conquests rather than on pre-Islamic theology.

Waqidi does not explicitly state that Allah was one of the 360 idols in the Kaaba, as one might envision the physical statues and idols worshipped by pre-Islamic Arabs. Instead, he implies that Allah was among the deities revered by the polytheistic Arabs, but not in the same manner as idols like Hubal, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, or Manat.

While Al-Waqidi's writings mainly concentrate on early Islamic history, they have faced criticism regarding their reliability. Some of his narratives may be shaped by later theological views or misinterpretations. There is no clear and widely accepted assertion from Al-Waqidi that Allah was an idol; such a statement would contradict the core monotheistic message of Islam which denounce idol worship and promote belief in the One God.

The claims that Al-Waqidi suggested Allah was just another idol among many, must be a misunderstanding or oversimplifying his work.

Waqqidi acknowledges Allah as a major deity within a wider polytheistic context, without equating Him to lesser idols. He highlights Allah’s importance as a primary deity worshipped by certain tribes, especially the Quraysh. He points out that although many idols were honored in Mecca, Allah was distinct as the creator and sustainer.

His writings illustrate how various tribes honored different idols, while also noting that some people called upon Allah for particular needs or in times of distress. This reflects a nuanced relationship between monotheistic beliefs and polytheistic practices.

Share a Youtube link of just one video to backup your assertion about efficacy of juju or an existence of a spirit.

IslamVIRGINS:
Your mumu is legendary! Juju don't work, no spirits, ect

Did you substantiate that 9 Idols are mentioned in the Quran or blindly copy to paste?

Here are examples of mentioning of idols in the quran.

1. Surah An-Najm (53:19-20)

The Quran mentions three among prominent idols of pre-Islamic Arabia:

"So have you considered Al-Lat and Al-‘Uzza? And Manat, the third—the other one?"
(Surah An-Najm, 53:19-20)

Al-Lat, Al-‘Uzza, and Manat

2. Surah Nuh (71:23)

"And they said, 'Never leave your gods and never leave Wadd or Suwa' or Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr.'"
(Surah Nuh, 71:23)

Wadd, Suwa', Yaghuth, Ya'uq, Nasr.

He points out that although many idols were honored in Mecca, Allah was distinct as the creator and sustainer.

Except you've not been taught by your quranic teachers that Muhammed (while still young), his father, his grandfather and his Quraysh tirbe (among other beduoin tribes) were 100% paganist and idolator or you're just trying taqqiyah on me whether it will work. Now go back and read what you wrote slowly and logically with the new info that they are %100 paganists and idolators.

Explore2xmore:
I wonder if you are seeking peer review or poking fun.

Did you substantiate that 9 Idols are mentioned in the Quran or blindly copy to paste?

Al-Waqidi’s works focus more on the Sirah (biographies of Muhammad) and early Islamic conquests rather than on pre-Islamic theology.

Waqidi does not explicitly state that Allah was one of the 360 idols in the Kaaba, as one might envision the physical statues and idols worshipped by pre-Islamic Arabs. Instead, he implies that Allah was among the deities revered by the polytheistic Arabs, but not in the same manner as idols like Hubal, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, or Manat.

While Al-Waqidi's writings mainly concentrate on early Islamic history, they have faced criticism regarding their reliability. Some of his narratives may be shaped by later theological views or misinterpretations. There is no clear and widely accepted assertion from Al-Waqidi that Allah was an idol; such a statement would contradict the core monotheistic message of Islam which denounce idol worship and promote belief in the One God.

The claims that Al-Waqidi suggested Allah was just another idol among many, must be a misunderstanding or oversimplifying his work.

Waqqidi acknowledges Allah as a major deity within a wider polytheistic context, without equating Him to lesser idols. He highlights Allah’s importance as a primary deity worshipped by certain tribes, especially the Quraysh. He points out that although many idols were honored in Mecca, Allah was distinct as the creator and sustainer.

His writings illustrate how various tribes honored different idols, while also noting that some people called upon Allah for particular needs or in times of distress. This reflects a nuanced relationship between monotheistic beliefs and polytheistic practices.

UncleAyo:
Infact, Illah is what the Arabic call God and not Allah. Allah was one of the diety been worshiped before the invention of Islam. That is why muslims will say something like "la ilah ila huwa" meaning Allah is one Illah (God).

Arabic has a general term for God, "Ilah", Muslims specifically use "Allah" to refer to the Creator of the heavens and the earth. The name "Allah" embodies all the perfect attributes and qualities of God as outlined in the Quran.

In Islam, Allah is the specific name for God used solely to denote the one true deity deserving of worship. Unlike a generic term for God, Allah uniquely identifies the Supreme Being in Islam.

UncleAyo:
Share a Youtube link of just one video to backup your assertion about efficacy of juju or an existence of a spirit.

Let me refer you to baba for village make him test something for your body

And the ussual rhetoric. SMH


Internet has exposed a lot of lies we've been told. Told that people record even when they sneeze, why is it difficult for you to bring a video link.

IslamVIRGINS:
Let me refer you to baba for village make him test something for your body

UncleAyo:
And the ussual rhetoric. SMH


Internet has exposed a lot of lies we've been told. Told that people record even when they sneeze, why is it difficult for you to bring a video link.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/gKyTMA9ma1g

Juju no dey work Oya watch dis video

The tape was edited and a lot of people have already confirmed its fakery. This is the same way they decieve you with miracle and spiritual experiences in religion.

Now go and watch the video one more time
1. Focuse on the shadow on the wall. You will discover that part of the shadow disappear when the supposed man disappeared.
2. The same thing happened to the shadow of the policeman on the floor which also disappear as it was cut along with the removed part.

However, where is the normal timestamp that alway come with cctv recordings?

The video was doctored and both the mopol man and the bank staff are complicit in the crime.

SMH

IslamVIRGINS:
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/gKyTMA9ma1g

Juju no dey work Oya watch dis video

UncleAyo:
Here are examples of mentioning of idols in the quran.

1. Surah An-Najm (53:19-20)

The Quran mentions three among prominent idols of pre-Islamic Arabia:

"So have you considered Al-Lat and Al-‘Uzza? And Manat, the third—the other one?"
(Surah An-Najm, 53:19-20)

Al-Lat, Al-‘Uzza, and Manat

2. Surah Nuh (71:23)

"And they said, 'Never leave your gods and never leave Wadd or Suwa' or Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr.'"
(Surah Nuh, 71:23)

Wadd, Suwa', Yaghuth, Ya'uq, Nasr.

You referenced 9 and present 8.

Particularly Wadd, Suwa', Yaghuth, Ya'uq, Nasr are mentioned in reference to the people of Noah.
Were they in Mecca?
Is there convincing proof that these idols were amongst those in the Kaaba?

UncleAyo:
Except you've not been taught by your quranic teachers that Muhammed (while still young), his father, his grandfather and his Quraysh tirbe (among other beduoin tribes) were 100% paganist and idolator or you're just trying taqqiyah on me whether it will work. Now go back and read what you wrote slowly and logically with the new info that they are %100 paganists and idolators.

Indeed most of the Quraish tribe before prophet Muhammad were polytheists, worshiping multiple idols and associating partners with Allah, some individuals among them held different beliefs or practices.

There were notable exceptions, such as the Hanifs and those influenced by Christianity or Judaism.

UncleAyo:
I'm irreligious. Get your fact straight.... Go through my posts here.

I know it pains you that I'm exposing the fakery of religions.

Updated: My use of the word "irreligous" was whimsical. There is no God or gods, angels or spirit any where. There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no life after death. These are figment of human imaginations. There is no proven existence beyond the physical. And if you want me to use the word atheist, Yes! I just don't like being tagged.

Your update is noted. However, regarding your attitude to the Quran (and I assume, the Bible), it's like claiming Harry Potter is fake, or Things Fall Apart is fake, or stories about the ijapa (tortoise) are fake, and then not learning anything from those books because they are made up fakes. Point is, we learn a lot from stories.

Left to me, and only because Nigeria already reads those books, I would make the Holy Bible and the Quran compulsory reading in secondary school. I'd even glue the Quran to the end of the New Testament and give copies to every student as soon as they enter JSS1. The contradictions alone should make them learn to think about what they read instead of blindly believing the books. I'd include critical thinking in the curriculum so they learn to use their brains.

Please in future, consider critiquing the believers and not the books. Only stupid people believe Things Fall Apart and Harry Potter, and intelligent people should not be blaming Chinua Achebe and J. K. Rowling for the stupidity of their readers.

____________________________________
Previous threads
_____________________________________

1. Mut'ah: A Divine Prostitution
2. Kaaba Of The Bedouin Tribes
3. Islam Is Idolatry And Paganism?
4. Can You Marry Or Give Out Your 9 Year Old Daughter In Marriage?