₦airaland Forum

The doctrine of hyper-grace teaches that because of God's grace, Christians no longer need to repent or strive for holiness, as all sins—past, present, and future—are already forgiven. While God's grace is indeed abundant and central to salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), this belief distorts the biblical balance between grace and responsibility.

1. Grace Does Not Abolish Obedience
Jesus Himself said, “If you love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Paul, who preached salvation by grace, also warned, “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!” (Romans 6:1-2). True grace empowers believers to live righteously, not to remain in sin.

2. Repentance is Ongoing
The Bible repeatedly calls believers to repentance, not just at salvation but as a continual act (Acts 3:19, 1 John 1:9). Even churches in Revelation were rebuked for sin and called to repent (Revelation 2:5, 3:19).

3. Holiness is Still Required
Hebrews 12:14 states, “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” Grace enables, but does not replace, our call to holy living.

4. Judgment Still Exists
While believers are saved by grace, they are still accountable (2 Corinthians 5:10). Jesus warned that many who call Him “Lord” will be rejected because they practiced lawlessness (Matthew 7:21-23).


A biblical understanding of grace does not lead to lawlessness but to transformation (Titus 2:11-12). True grace calls us to deeper love, repentance, and obedience, not complacency in sin.

Thankgod89:
➜The doctrine of hyper-grace teaches that because of God's grace, Christians no longer need to repent or strive for holiness, as all sins—past, present, and future—are already forgiven. While God's grace is indeed abundant and central to salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), this belief distorts the biblical balance between grace and responsibility.
1. Grace Does Not Abolish Obedience
Jesus Himself said, “If you love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Paul, who preached salvation by grace, also warned, “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!” (Romans 6:1-2). True grace empowers believers to live righteously, not to remain in sin.
2. Repentance is Ongoing
The Bible repeatedly calls believers to repentance, not just at salvation but as a continual act (Acts 3:19, 1 John 1:9). Even churches in Revelation were rebuked for sin and called to repent (Revelation 2:5, 3:19).
3. Holiness is Still Required
Hebrews 12:14 states, “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” Grace enables, but does not replace, our call to holy living.
4. Judgment Still Exists
While believers are saved by grace, they are still accountable (2 Corinthians 5:10). Jesus warned that many who call Him “Lord” will be rejected because they practiced lawlessness (Matthew 7:21-23).
A biblical understanding of grace does not lead to lawlessness but to transformation (Titus 2:11-12). True grace calls us to deeper love, repentance, and obedience, not complacency in sin

But where is the evidence of the grace idea itself in the lives of over the 2.2. billion Catholics and Christians across the globe? Where can it be seen and examined?

Kobojunkie:
But where is the evidence of the grace idea itself in the lives of over the 2.2. billion Catholics and Christians across the globe? Where can it be seen and examined?

The evidence of grace is not measured by the perfection of every individual who claims Christianity, but by the undeniable transformation it brings to those who truly embrace it. If we look beyond institutions and flawed human behavior, we see grace at work in:

1. Changed Lives – Millions testify to radical personal transformation, from addiction to freedom, hatred to love, selfishness to service. These are real, observable shifts in character that psychology alone cannot fully explain.

2. Acts of Love and Sacrifice – Christian organizations lead in humanitarian efforts—feeding the poor, caring for the sick, and advocating for justice. Hospitals, orphanages, and schools worldwide exist because of this grace-driven compassion.

3. Personal Encounters – The most compelling evidence is found in those who have experienced God’s grace firsthand. Millions speak of peace beyond understanding, freedom from guilt, and a love that transforms their entire being.

Grace is not a vague idea—it is a force that changes hearts, communities, and history itself. It can be examined in lives truly surrendered to Christ, where the evidence is undeniable.

Thankgod89:
➜The evidence of grace is not measured by the perfection of every individual who claims Christianity, but by the undeniable transformation it brings to those who truly embrace it. If we look beyond institutions and flawed human behavior, we see grace at work in:
1. Changed Lives – Millions testify to radical personal transformation, from addiction to freedom, hatred to love, selfishness to service. These are real, observable shifts in character that psychology alone cannot fully explain.
2. Acts of Love and Sacrifice – Christian organizations lead in humanitarian efforts—feeding the poor, caring for the sick, and advocating for justice. Hospitals, orphanages, and schools worldwide exist because of this grace-driven compassion.
3. Personal Encounters – The most compelling evidence is found in those who have experienced God’s grace firsthand. Millions speak of peace beyond understanding, freedom from guilt, and a love that transforms their entire being.
➜Grace is not a vague idea—it is a force that changes hearts, communities, and history itself. It can be examined in lives truly surrendered to Christ, where the evidence is undeniable.

1. Changed lives, you say? They are real yet in Nigeria where at least 60 million of the populace claim to have this same testimony are also among the worst of Nigeria. How come?

2. Acts of love and sacrifice? Do you mean the same acts that are carried out by non-Christian organizations like UNICEF, USAID, etc, in the same Nigeria?

3. Personal encounters and understanding which has resulted in the creation of over 45,000 different images of the same Christian God — denominations in the same religion? Anyone looking from the outside would note that the many contradictory ideas cannot be cohesively merged together for good reason hence the division that is observed even within Christianity and among Christians.

4. It is not vague yet all you have stated are vague ideas/conclusions of what it is.

Please note that none of the above definitively answers the question I asked earlier.

Kobojunkie:
But where is the evidence of the grace idea itself in the lives of over the 2.2. billion Catholics and Christians across the globe? Where can it be seen and examined?

Also, at this point it may make sense to ask that you explain what exactly grace is since there seem to be so many different definitions of what it is across the many different denominations of Christianity.

Kobojunkie:
1. Changed lives, you say? They are real yet in Nigeria where at least 60 million of the populace claim to have this same testimony are also among the worst of Nigeria. How come?

2. Acts of love and sacrifice? Do you mean the same acts that are carried out by non-Christian organizations like UNICEF, USAID, etc, in the same Nigeria?

3. Personal encounters and understanding which has resulted in the creation of over 45,000 different images of the same Christian God — denominations in the same religion? Anyone looking from the outside would note that the many contradictory ideas cannot be cohesively merged together for good reason hence the division that is observed even within Christianity and among Christians.

4. It is not vague yet all you have stated are vague ideas/conclusions of what it is.

Please note that none of the above definitively answers the question I asked earlier. Also, at this point it may make sense to ask that you explain what exactly grace is since there seem to be so many different definitions of what it is across the many different denominations of Christianity.

I see your skepticism, and it's fair to demand concrete evidence rather than general claims. Let me address your points directly.

1. Changed Lives vs. Nigeria’s Reality

You highlight that Nigeria, despite having millions of professing Christians, still struggles with corruption and societal decay. The issue here is not the failure of grace but the inconsistency between professed faith and actual transformation. Not everyone who claims Christianity truly lives by its principles. Jesus Himself warned of this:
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father” (Matthew 7:21).

That said, real transformation does exist in Nigeria and elsewhere—individuals and communities where Christian values have led to positive change. However, faith that is cultural or superficial will not yield genuine transformation, just as having a hospital nearby does not mean everyone is healed.

2. Acts of Love & Non-Christian Organizations

Yes, organizations like UNICEF and USAID also perform humanitarian work. But the presence of secular efforts does not negate the role of Christian-driven charity. Many non-religious organizations today were historically influenced or founded on Christian values. The distinction is that Christian charity is driven by a spiritual calling, often working in places others avoid.

More importantly, Christianity does not claim exclusivity in doing good. Jesus’ parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) shows that love and service are not bound to religious labels. The real question is not who does good but why grace transforms some to do good sacrificially, even when it is not required by law or policy.

3. Denominational Divisions & Contradictions

You point to 45,000 denominations as evidence of Christianity’s inconsistency. But division does not necessarily mean falsehood—it often reflects human imperfection, cultural differences, and theological nuances. Despite disagreements, core Christian beliefs remain intact: grace, salvation through Christ, love, and righteousness.

Consider how science has thousands of conflicting theories yet still pursues truth. Disagreements do not invalidate the pursuit, and unity is not required for truth to exist. Even with divisions, Christianity remains the largest and most enduring faith in human history.

4. Is Grace Just an Idea?

I get your frustration—you’re asking for something tangible, not just concepts. But grace, like love, justice, or consciousness, is not a physical object to be placed under a microscope. It is seen in its effects. If a corrupt man turns honest, an addict becomes free, or a persecuted believer loves his enemies, what caused that shift? These transformations are the real-world impact of grace.


If you’re asking where grace can be objectively examined, look at individuals, not institutions. Look at those who live out their faith consistently, even when it costs them something. If Christianity were false, its transformative power would not be seen across time, cultures, and history. Yet, despite human flaws, that change continues.

Kobojunkie:
1.
Also, at this point it may make sense to ask that you explain what exactly grace is since there seem to be so many different definitions of what it is across the many different denominations of Christianity.

The term grace is often used in different ways, but at its core, biblical grace refers to God’s unearned favor and enabling power. Let’s break it down into two key aspects:

1. Grace as Unmerited Favor

Grace means that God offers love, forgiveness, and salvation not because of human effort or worthiness, but as a free gift. This is seen in:

Salvation by grace – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:.

Forgiveness despite failure – “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:.


2. Grace as Divine Empowerment

Grace is not just about forgiveness—it also transforms and strengthens believers to live rightly. It’s God’s power at work in human weakness, as seen in:

Victory over sin – “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14).

Strength in weakness – “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness” (2 Corinthians 12:9).


While denominations emphasize different aspects of grace, the core idea remains: [b]Grace is God’s loving favor and power freely given to undeserving people. [/b]Some groups focus more on its role in salvation, others on its role in daily Christian living, but the essence is the same.

Thankgod89:
➜I see your skepticism, and it's fair to demand concrete evidence rather than general claims. Let me address your points directly.
1. Changed Lives vs. Nigeria’s Reality
You highlight that Nigeria, despite having millions of professing Christians, still struggles with corruption and societal decay. The issue here is not the failure of grace but the inconsistency between professed faith and actual transformation. Not everyone who claims Christianity truly lives by its principles. Jesus Himself warned of this:
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father” (Matthew 7:21).
That said, real transformation does exist in Nigeria and elsewhere—individuals and communities where Christian values have led to positive change. However, faith that is cultural or superficial will not yield genuine transformation, just as having a hospital nearby does not mean everyone is healed.
Acts of Love & Non-Christian Organizations Yes, organizations like UNICEF and USAID also perform humanitarian work. But the presence of secular efforts does not negate the role of Christian-driven charity. Many non-religious organizations today were historically influenced or founded on Christian values. The distinction is that Christian charity is driven by a spiritual calling, often working in places others avoid.
More importantly, Christianity does not claim exclusivity in doing good. Jesus’ parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) shows that love and service are not bound to religious labels. The real question is not who does good but why grace transforms some to do good sacrificially, even when it is not required by law or policy.
Denominational Divisions & Contradictions You point to 45,000 denominations as evidence of Christianity’s inconsistency. But division does not necessarily mean falsehood—it often reflects human imperfection, cultural differences, and theological nuances. Despite disagreements, core Christian beliefs remain intact: grace, salvation through Christ, love, and righteousness.
Consider how science has thousands of conflicting theories yet still pursues truth. Disagreements do not invalidate the pursuit, and unity is not required for truth to exist. Even with divisions, Christianity remains the largest and most enduring faith in human history.
2. Is Grace Just an Idea? I get your frustration—you’re asking for something tangible, not just concepts. But grace, like love, justice, or consciousness, is not a physical object to be placed under a microscope. It is seen in its effects. If a corrupt man turns honest, an addict becomes free, or a persecuted believer loves his enemies, what caused that shift? These transformations are the real-world impact of grace.
➜If you’re asking where grace can be objectively examined, look at individuals, not institutions. Look at those who live out their faith consistently, even when it costs them something.
➜If Christianity were false, its transformative power would not be seen across time, cultures, and history. Yet, despite human flaws, that change continues.

1. So all of this is to tell me that this grace thing you keep talking of does not exist among the over 60 million Nigerians in Nigeria who have the same personal testimony that you claim can be used to source this evidence for the presence of grace?

2. Humans are ever-changing so if an addict decides to change, or a corrupt man turns honest, etc., it can simply be a change of heart. For instance. This is observed in both those who claim religion and those who have absolutely nothing to do with religion. So, to assert that all change of this kind is religious would be very disingenuous.

3. I am looking at you as an individual. Where is this grace that you pretend you have to be found in your life?

4. All religions also claim to have had similar transformative power across time, cultures and history. That is a fact. So, this is nothing unique to Christianity in any way or bit.

Thankgod89:
The term grace is often used in different ways, but at its core, biblical grace refers to God’s unearned favor and enabling power. Let’s break it down into two key aspects:
1. Grace as Unmerited Favor---Grace means that God offers love, forgiveness, and salvation not because of human effort or worthiness, but as a free gift. This is seen in: Salvation by grace – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:. Forgiveness despite failure – “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:.
2. Grace as Divine Empowerment
Grace is not just about forgiveness—it also transforms and strengthens believers to live rightly. It’s God’s power at work in human weakness, as seen in:
Victory over sin – “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14).
Strength in weakness – “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness” (2 Corinthians 12:9).
While denominations emphasize different aspects of grace, the core idea remains: [b]Grace is God’s loving favor and power freely given to undeserving people. [/b]Some groups focus more on its role in salvation, others on its role in daily Christian living, but the essence is the same.

So, where are the signs of this unmerited favor and divine empowerment to be observed or seen in your life as opposed to the life of someone who is not a Christian... say a Muslim or even an athiest?

Kobojunkie:
So, where are the signs of this unmerited favor and divine empowerment to be observed or seen in your life as opposed to the life of someone who is not a Christian... say a Muslim or even an athiest?

Understand this: God’s grace is not measured by material success, an easy life, or external achievements. I’m a civil engineer, and I know what I’ve accomplished and this has nothing to do with me being Christian. Many non-Christians are wealthy, intelligent, and even morally upright. But the true mark of grace is a transformed relationship with God—something that cannot be earned through human effort.

You're asking about the unmerited favor I’ve received from God. It may seem ordinary to you, but to me, it’s priceless.

Salvation through Christ – I am saved by grace, not by my own efforts or good deeds.

Forgiveness of sins – No matter how broken my past, God’s mercy has given me a fresh start.

The Holy Spirit’s presence – God lives within me, guiding, strengthening, and transforming my life.

I can personally testify to God’s power in freeing me from addictions and destructive habits. I struggled with masturbation, adultery, and anger at the slightest provocation. This change did not come from self-discipline alone but from God working in me.

That said, I’m not claiming that non-believers are incapable of doing good. The real difference isn’t just in outward morality but in the deeper reason and power behind how believers live. A Christian’s transformation is not based on personal willpower but on God’s grace actively working within them.

You don’t know me, and sharing my journey doesn’t mean you won’t still criticize or dragged me. Believe what you choose, and let peace reign.

Thank you.

Thankgod89:
➜Understand this: God’s grace is not measured by material success, an easy life, or external achievements. I’m a civil engineer, and I know what I’ve accomplished and this has nothing to do with me being Christian. Many non-Christians are wealthy, intelligent, and even morally upright. But the true mark of grace is a transformed relationship with God—something that cannot be earned through human effort.
You're asking about the unmerited favor I’ve received from God. It may seem ordinary to you, but to me, it’s priceless. Salvation through Christ – I am saved by grace, not by my own efforts or good deeds. Forgiveness of sins – No matter how broken my past, God’s mercy has given me a fresh start. The Holy Spirit’s presence – God lives within me, guiding, strengthening, and transforming my life. I can personally testify to God’s power in freeing me from addictions and destructive habits. I struggled with masturbation, adultery, and anger at the slightest provocation. This change did not come from self-discipline alone but from God working in me.
➜ That said, I’m not claiming that non-believers are incapable of doing good. The real difference isn’t just in outward morality but in the deeper reason and power behind how believers live. A Christian’s transformation is not based on personal willpower but on God’s grace actively working within them. You don’t know me, and sharing my journey doesn’t mean you won’t still criticize or dragged me. Believe what you choose, and let peace reign. Thank you.

So, what you are saying is that you have no outward proof of any you claim to have there? You have no proof of this salvation which you claim and of this holy spirit of yours which seems to tell at least over 45,000 different stories/tales going by the over 45,000 different denominations of the religion of Christianity, all of which conflict with the others. Does this make sense to you?

2. The bulk of the good done in the world we live in today is literally done by those who don't even believe in your particular deity. So, if believing in your particular deity provides individuals with no tangible measure, of what use is this grace that you offer to them?

Kobojunkie:
So, what you are saying is that you have no outward proof of any you claim to have there? You have no proof of this salvation which you claim and of this holy spirit of yours which seems to tell at least over 45,000 different stories/tales going by the over 45,000 different denominations of the religion of Christianity, all of which conflict with the others. Does this make sense to you?

2. The bulk of the good done in the world we live in today is literally done by those who don't even believe in your particular deity. So, if believing in your particular deity provides individuals with no tangible measure, of what use is this grace that you offer to them?

I’ve explained myself to you, yet you continue asking for outward proof. Bro/Mr., I am more than sufficient—beyond measure. I’m not here to prove my material success.

I’ve seen your comments in many posts, and I’m convinced that you stand against the CROSS. Your acts of antagonism will never change the fact that JESUS CHRIST REMAINS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. I am here to testify to the transformation I’ve experienced since accepting Him as my personal Savior.

Feel free to continue acting like Jannes and Jambres, as described in 2 Timothy 3:8, but the truth will stand.

Thankgod89:
➜I’ve explained myself to you, yet you continue asking for outward proof. Bro/Mr., I am more than sufficient—beyond measure. I’m not here to prove my material success.
➜I’ve seen your comments in many posts, and I’m convinced that you stand against the CROSS. Your acts of antagonism will never change the fact that JESUS CHRIST REMAINS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. I am here to testify to the transformation I’ve experienced since accepting Him as my personal Savior. Feel free to continue acting like Jannes and Jambres, as described in 2 Timothy 3:8, but the truth will stand.

1. I should ask for outward proof since I can't read your mind but your actions and so far, it seems your grace thingy does not guarantee any real behavioral —outward changes — that can in fact be linked back to it.

2. You just lied! According to Jesus Christ of Israel whom you pretend to follow, there are outward proofs of what He gave to His followers. There were signs which were served as proof of their being His followers - Mark 16 vs 14-19 - and we read in the book of Acts of His actual followers going on to do many of what Jesus Christ of Israel Himself did while He was alive. There was no report of them failing to heal —the writers reported the same 100% success rate that was recorded during the time of Jesus Christ of Israel as far as His disciples.

You pretend what you have is from that same Jesus Christ of Israel but unfortunately what you have comes with no proof implying you don't have Jesus Christ of Israel at all but some counterfeit linked to religion instead.

Kobojunkie:
1. I should ask for outward proof since I can't read your mind but your actions and so far, it seems your grace thingy does not guarantee any real behavioral —outward changes — that can in fact be linked back to it.

2. You just lied! According to Jesus Christ of Israel whom you pretend to follow, there are outward proofs of what He gave to His followers. There were signs which were served as proof of their being His followers - Mark 16 vs 14-19 - and we read in the book of Acts of His actual followers going on to do many of what Jesus Christ of Israel Himself did while He was alive. There was no report of them failing to heal —the writers reported the same 100% success rate that was recorded during the time of Jesus Christ of Israel as far as His disciples.

You pretend what you have is from that same Jesus Christ of Israel but unfortunately what you have comes with no proof implying you don't have Jesus Christ of Israel at all but some counterfeit linked to religion instead.

THANK YOU!!!

GOOD NIGHT.

Misinformation is the problem most people have the word GRACE has been misconstrued as condoning wrongdoing but what is the meaning?

Another word for grace is "UNDESERVED KINDNESS" it means God's kindness towards a sinner that such wrongdoers doesn't deserve.

For instance death is the wages of sin {Romans 6:23} but instead of killing us immediately for our wrongdoing God showed us mercy by allowing us to keep on living then in that same state God provided a sacrificial lamb that will bear all our sin so that we are declared righteous due to the blood of Jesus.
This doesn't mean that a Christian can now choose wrongdoing as an hobby but whatever error we commit unknowingly due to imperfection we only need to go and discuss it with the elders representing the congregation of God and their prayer will serve as healing for our downhearted soul. James 5:14-15
But whoever chooses to continue in his or her wrongdoing wilfully is nailing Jesus again for the second time {Hebrews 6:4-6} such ones will start hiding their sins away from the congregation by not associating with those who can help them with God's word {Hebrews 10:24-25} there is no redemption for them! Hebrews 10:26-31

MaxInDHouse:
Misinformation is the problem most people have the word GRACE has been misconstrued as condoning wrongdoing but what is the meaning?

Another word for grace is "UNDESERVED KINDNESS" it means God's kindness towards a sinner that such wrongdoers doesn't deserve.

For instance death is the wages of sin {Romans 6:23} but instead of killing us immediately for our wrongdoing God showed us mercy by allowing us to keep on living then in that same state God provided a sacrificial lamb that will bear all our sin so that we are declared righteous due to the blood of Jesus.
This doesn't mean that a Christian can now choose wrongdoing as an hobby but whatever error we commit unknowingly due to imperfection we only need to go and discuss it with the elders representing the congregation of God and their prayer will serve as healing for our downhearted soul. James 5:14-15
But whoever chooses to continue in his or her wrongdoing wilfully is nailing Jesus again for the second time {Hebrews 6:4-6} such ones will start hiding their sins away from the congregation by not associating with those who can help them with God's word {Hebrews 10:24-25} there is no redemption for them! Hebrews 10:26-31

I agree with everything you wrote except the point about confessing our wrongdoing to an Elder. I stand to be corrected, but I believe that the primary recipient of our confession is God Himself. Scripture encourages us to confess our sins directly to Him, as seen in Psalm 51:4: "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight." Similarly, 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

while Scripture encourages confessing sins to God and, in certain contexts, to fellow believers, it does not explicitly require confessing sins to a specific person or institution.

Thankgod89:
I agree with everything you wrote except the point about confessing our wrongdoing to an Elder.

It's confessing to the ELDERS plural not singular!

Thankgod89:
➜THANK YOU!!! GOOD NIGHT.

You have yet to provide proof for your grace thing.

Kobojunkie:
You have yet to provide proof for your grace thing.

I can tell you're frustrated. Even if I show you proof, it probably wouldn't matter to someone like you. Just relax and find peace.

Thankgod89:
➜I can tell you're frustrated. Even if I show you proof, it probably wouldn't matter to someone like you. Just relax and find peace.

Asking a question means I am frustrated. You religious folks are the same no matter where you are encountered. 🙄🙄🙄

Kobojunkie:
Asking a question means I am frustrated. You religious folks are the same no matter where you are encountered. 🙄🙄🙄

No matter how bright a light shines, a blind man will still remain blind. Likewise, no matter how much proof is given—even if it's right before your eyes—you still won’t believe. Why chase after shadows when you know deep down that you stand in opposition to the message of the cross?

Thankgod89:
✓ No matter how bright a light shines, a blind man will still remain blind. Likewise, no matter how much proof is given—even if it's right before your eyes—you still won’t believe. Why chase after shadows when you know deep down that you stand in opposition to the message of the cross?

Asking you to provide proof of your connection to this grace thing and the man called Jesus Christ of Israel who instead swore that His Father sent Him only to the Lost Sheep of Israel ensuring those of them who have him would have proof makes me a blind man! 😞😞