₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
Did you read through the content of the link yourself? If yes, why aren't you able to point me directly to the lines that answer my particular questions to you?

Skimming through the content of the link, I have not been able to find any mentions of the events that took place right as the Pharaoh was dying, so what is it you are afraid of?

2. There is a lack of evidence for the additional claims you have made thus far regarding the information presented in verses 90-93 from Surah Yunus. If you insist that it is a poor grasp of English translation, then you should probably help me by providing me with the source for the additional details you introduced via your interpretation.

3. I see you are quickly turning this into an ego trip instead of responding appropriately to the questions asked.

https://quran.com/yunus

Chapter 10 Verse 96

Indeed, those against whom your Lord’s decree ˹of torment˺ is justified will not believe

Chapter 10 Verse 97

even if every sign were to come to them—until they see the painful punishment.

Chapter 10 Verse 98

If only there had been a society which believed ˹before seeing the torment˺ and, therefore, benefited from its belief, like the people of Jonah.1 When they believed, We lifted from them the torment of disgrace in this world and allowed them enjoyment for a while.

MaxInDHouse:
The problem is Islam in itself a believer in one god is a Muslim (according to Islam) whoever agrees that there is only one God is automatically a Muslim but that's not the truth.
Pharaoh believe in many gods but he quickly released the Israelites when he realized that the God who sent Moses is mightier than all the Gods in Egypt.
Now to an average Muslim that submission automatically qualifies Pharaoh to be called a Muslim.
Muslims can't prove the OP wrong on this since fighting and killing fellow believers means nothing to Muslims so far both sides are fighting for a just course in their hearts.

Thanks for your comment. I only posted what is written in their Quran. No addition. No subtraction. No modification.

For instance, everybody knows that maximumSide is of Jehovah's Witnesses and you are bold, exxited,willing, and happy to declare that.

Pharaoh here as revealed by angel Gabriel did confess without a blush that he was a Muslim. The Quran testifies to this confession.

I don't anything clumsiness in the statement.


Yet, no Muslim has answered my question: ' Allah sent Pharaoh a Muslim to annihilate Israel, the non - Muslim nation. At the red Sea Allah drowned his servant and saved his enemies. Why?

IMEI:
➜https://quran.com/yunus

Why do I get the feeling that you don't even have a clear understanding of the topic itself? Either that or you have no answers, but in a desperate attempt to pretend you know, you feel posting irrelevant links would somehow make the questions go away? How else does one go about explaining the various attempts to derail, abeg?

Pharoah was at the door of death, then he cried out that he now believed and was a Muslim. Then Allah of the Muslims answered pharoah, insisting that Pharoah's corpse would be preserved as an example to others to come after him.
⚉ Where is it stated that Allah of Muslims rejected Pharoah's last-minute repentance since we are, in fact, being made to believe here that Allah of Muslims responded to Pharoah at the point of his death?
⚉ If Pharoah was a non-Muslim even up until his last breath, why did the Allah of the Muslims take time out to answer him?
⚉ Or, does Allah of the Muslims respond to the last-ditch efforts at the repentance made by everyone — regardless of whether they are Muslims or not?

Lukuluku69:
I believe that there is no god but Allah in Whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am also one of those who submit to Allah. The Quran 10:90


The king answered Daniel, and said, "Truly your God is the God of gods, the Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, since you could reveal this secret."
-- Daniel 2:47
KJV Bible


Tell me the difference in both statements. Does Nebuchadnezzar also worship Jehovah and practiced Judaism since Daniel was a Jew and of that Faith?

I like your logic:
Jas.2.19 - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

That simply means that Shytan and jinns are Muslims because they believe in one God.


Satan is a Muslim.

illicit:
Yeah

There's one other christain zealot here, who claims that Christians exist even before Jesus Christ...

He said there were Christians in Genesis

I think the guy is really daft

You should have asked him to explain his concept rather.

IMEI:
https://quran.com/yunus
➜Chapter 10 Verse 96 Indeed, those against whom your Lord’s decree ˹of torment˺ is justified will not believe
➜ Chapter 10 Verse 97 even if every sign were to come to them—until they see the painful punishment.
➜ Chapter 10 Verse 98 If only there had been a society which believed ˹before seeing the torment˺ and, therefore, benefited from its belief, like the people of Jonah.1 When they believed, We lifted from them the torment of disgrace in this world and allowed them enjoyment for a while.

So, which of the above fits the case with Pharoah, and how?

Is the painful punishment death, in this case, drowning? Is the torment death(in this case, the drowning)?

Kobojunkie:
Why do I get the feeling that you don't even have a clear understanding of the topic itself? Either that or you have no answers, but in a desperate attempt to pretend you know, you feel posting irrelevant links would somehow make the questions go away? How else does one go about explaining the various attempts to derail, abeg?

Pharoah was at the door of death, then he cried out that he now believed and was a Muslim. Then Allah of the Muslims answered pharoah, insisting that Pharoah's corpse would be preserved as an example to others to come after him. Where is it stated that Allah of Muslims rejected Pharoah's last-minute repentance since we are,in fact, being made to believe here that Allah of Muslims responded to Pharoah at the point of his death? If Pharoah was a non-Muslim even up until his last breath, why did the Allah of the Muslims take time out to answer him?

God spoke to pharaoh through Moses, He sent Moses to pharaoh

God spoke to Moses directly, He spoke to pharaoh through His Messenger Moses who He spoke to directly

The problem is my overestimating you, I'll be responding to you like I would a baby

Those who God had decreed punishment for, their repentance weren't accepted at the time of punishment:

Chapter 10 Verse 96 - 98

"Indeed, those against whom your Lord’s decree ˹of torment˺ is justified will not believe

even if every sign were to come to them—until they see the painful punishment.

If only there had been a society which believed ˹before seeing the torment˺ and, therefore, benefited from its belief, like the people of Jonah. When they believed, We lifted from them the torment of disgrace in this world and allowed them enjoyment for a while."

From the above it's clear that 'belief' only benefits before the decreed punishment begins

Furthermore:

Chapter 4 verse 18

"However, repentance is not accepted from those who knowingly persist in sin until they start dying, and then cry, “Now I repent!” nor those who die as disbelievers. For them We have prepared a painful punishment."

Here the Quran speaks of the exact situation in which pharaoh found himself. He had many chances to repent or believe prior to his last moment, but stubbornly refused. We are judged by what we do of our own free will, but at the moment of death it isn’t truly free will because the person sees their own lack of choice in the matter (of death), so that situation “pressured” them to repent or have faith. Death had come to him, and until the last moment he was chasing after Musa (Moses) and his people with intent to kill them. So this about-face occurred only under the duress and undeniable knowledge that occurs when one sees death just before the moment of death itself, barely enough time to have made his statement.

Kobojunkie:
Be specific! Explain yourself by citing the verses and how they are self-explanatory, according to you.
What exactly is one meant to comprehend from reading the above other than what is in fact stated as-is written?

According to verse 91:
You see am so? Pharaoh was once disobedient, not submitting to Allah (not a Muslim); but, now he(Pharaoh changed his mind, submitted to Allah, became a Muslim.

The thing is crystal clear.

IMEI:
Qur'an is the direct word of God, this is God stating that He rejected pharaoh's claim of believing in Him

God being the One who knows all things, knew pharaoh's motivations were phony and He rejected it...only God knows actual intentions and a person who genuinely repents is known by God, vis-a-vis someone who is insincere

From where did you pick your analysis in the Quran?

MightySparrow:
From where did you pick your analysis in the Quran?

There are many links

Qur'an.com

Islam dot qa

Or you can simply type in tafseer of whatever verse you want in the Google searchbox

Tafseers are broad explanations and teachings of the Qur'an

IMEI:
➜God spoke to pharaoh through Moses, He sent Moses to pharaoh God spoke to Moses directly, He spoke to pharaoh through His Messenger Moses who He spoke to directly The problem is my overestimating you, I'll be responding to you like I would a baby Those who God had decreed punishment for, their repentance weren't accepted at the time of punishment:
Chapter 10 Verse 96 - 98 "Indeed, those against whom your Lord’s decree ˹of torment˺ is justified will not believe. even if every sign were to come to them—until they see the painful punishment. If only there had been a society which believed ˹before seeing the torment˺ and, therefore, benefited from its belief, like the people of Jonah. When they believed, We lifted from them the torment of disgrace in this world and allowed them enjoyment for a while."
➜ From the above it's clear that 'belief' only benefits before the decreed punishment begins
➜ Furthermore:
Chapter 4 verse 18 "However, repentance is not accepted from those who knowingly persist in sin until they start dying, and then cry, “Now I repent!” nor those who die as disbelievers. For them We have prepared a painful punishment."
Here the Quran speaks of the exact situation in which pharaoh found himself. He had many chances to repent or believe prior to his last moment, but stubbornly refused. We are judged by what we do of our own free will, but at the moment of death it isn’t truly free will because the person sees their own lack of choice in the matter (of death), so that situation “pressured” them to repent or have faith. Death had come to him, and until the last moment he was chasing after Musa (Moses) and his people with intent to kill them. So this about-face occurred only under the duress and undeniable knowledge that occurs when one sees death just before the moment of death itself, barely enough time to have made his statement.

2. Interesting! So what you are insinuating is that even before he drew his last breath, Pharoah had already been condemned to torment by the Allah of the Muslims? Meaning that it did not matter at all that Allah of the Muslims responded(answered) to Pharaoh; even as he died, he remained a non-muslim. Right?

3. Based on this, wouldn't it then mean that Allah of the Muslims responds to the cries of non-Muslims at the point of death even though literally all death-bed confessions— since they are mostly made out of regret—are rejected by Allah of the Muslims?

Kobojunkie:
So, which of the above fits the case with Pharoah, and how?

Is the painful punishment death, in this case, drowning? Is the torment death(in this case, the drowning)?

The punishments of this life began with the plagues and were sealed with the drowning after he and his armies followed Moses and his followers across the sea

IMEI:
➜The punishments of this life began with the plagues and were sealed with the drowning after he and his armies followed Moses and his followers across the sea

Huh? So, all the other Egyptians who were caused to die by way of the plagues were all as part of the Pharaoh's torment? And this is how the Allah of the Muslims deals with everyone who is not a Muslim or was this torment particular to the Pharoah?

Kobojunkie:


2. Interesting! So what you are insinuating is that even before he drew his last breath, Pharoah had already been condemned to torment by the Allah of the Muslims? Meaning that it did not matter at all that Allah of the Muslims responded(answered) to Pharaoh; even as he died, he remained a non-muslim. Right?

3. Based on this, wouldn't it then mean that Allah of the Muslims responds to the cries of non-Muslims at the point of death even though literally all death-bed confessions— since they are mostly made out of regret—are rejected by Allah of the Muslims?

My advice, get a Qur'an and read

Or go to

Qur'an.com

All your answers are there, if you care

Kobojunkie:
Huh? So, all the other Egyptians who were caused to die by way of the plagues were all as part of the Pharaoh's torment? And this is how the Allah of the Muslims deals with everyone who is not a Muslim or was this torment particular to the Pharoah?

Are you quoting Qur'an or Bible? Don't use biblical evidence to challenge qur'anic positions

IMEI:
➜My advice, get a Qur'an and read Or go to Qur'an.com All your answers are there, if you care

I have actually read the quran before now. I did not memorize any of the tales contained at the time.

Anyways, according to you, once Allah of the Muslim's torment begins — in this case, Pharoah's torment began when the plagues started— all doors to becoming a Muslim are closed. Is this the case?

IMEI:
➜Are you quoting Qur'an or Bible? Don't use biblical evidence to challenge qur'anic positions

Pharoah was a god over his people, right? And the plagues that you mentioned impacted him and his people, right? Where they all local to the Pharoah?

The Pharaoh was now in a dilemma. He had no intention of allowing Bani Isra'i1 to leave Egypt. In the years that followed Egypt was visited by several calamities such as floods, locusts, lice, frogs appearing in food and utensils etc. (these have been described in the Qur'an as آيَاتٍ مُّفَصَّلَاتٍ (Signs distinct 7:133). The Pharaoh would, at the time of each such visitation, approach Sayyidna Musa (علیہ السلام) and promised to release Bani Isra'il from his bondage and let them leave Egypt if he prayed to Allah to deliver him from the disaster. But as soon as the affliction was removed through the prayers of Musa علیہ السلام the Pharaoh reneged on his promise.

This happened several times until Allah commanded Sayyidna Musa (علیہ السلام) to take Bani Isra'il with him and leave Egypt. One night he and the whole tribe of Bani Isra'il quietly stole out of Egypt. The next morning when the Pharaoh discovered their escape, he assembled his army and went after them. Sayyidna Musa (علیہ السلام) and his men soon came to a river which had to be crossed. Allah commanded the river that when Sayyidna Musa (علیہ السلام) would strike its water with his staff it should part to make twelve exits for the twelve tribes of Bani Isra'il and that when they had crossed over, it should resume its normal flow again.

Kobojunkie:
I have actually read the quran before now. I did not memorize any of the tales contained at the time.

I just do not understand why religious folks feel the need to add their own interpretation to what is written in the many books and then insist their ideas are better than what is stated in the book, all while insisting, against facts, that it is in fact what is written in the book.

Maybe you just need to humble yourself and learn from those who know

IMEI:
➜Maybe you just need to humble yourself and learn from those who know

. Humble in this case meaning? The last I checked, humble has nothing to do with reading and understanding the content of a book, but you seem to think differently.

Anyways, according to you, once Allah of the Muslim's torment begins — in this case, Pharoah's torment began when the plagues started— all doors to becoming a Muslim are closed. Is this the case?

MightySparrow:
Yet, no Muslim has answered my question: ' Allah sent Pharaoh a Muslim to annihilate Israel, the non - Muslim nation. At the red Sea Allah drowned his servant and saved his enemies. Why?

If you are practicing a false religion it's a problem because there will be lots and lots of questions you won't be able to answer no matter how bold you are.

Pharaoh became a Muslim after he was defeated by Jehovah not before then but as Islam doesn't know why believers in the same god should fight against one another no Muslim can explain why Pharaoh wants to attack fellow Muslims (as Muslims will call Moses and those with him)

Allah has nothing to say or do about his worshipers fighting and killing one another that's why Pharaoh (Muslim) could still be determined to kill Moses (Muslim)

Kobojunkie:
Pharoah was a god over his people, right? And the plagues that you mentioned impacted him and his people, right? Where they all local to the Pharoah?

Whatever torment that was visited, was for pharaoh and those who followed him

Kobojunkie:
. Humble in this case meaning? The last I checked, humble has nothing to do with reading and understanding the content of a book, but you seem to think differently.

Anyways, according to you, once Allah of the Muslim's torment begins — in this case, Pharoah's torment began when the plagues started— all doors to becoming a Muslim are closed. Is this the case?

The plagues were only the beginning and were warnings at that point, the painful punishment is the one that finishes off the receiver and guarantees eternal punishment, which in this case is the drowning

The same as Prophet Lut in Sodom and Gomorrah, Prophet Saleh, Prophet Nuh (peace be up on them all)

Allah accepts the repentance of a man so long as the death rattle has not yet reached his throat (Google this)

Repentance was closed off to the pharaoh when he was about to die at the very point of death

illicit:
Well then... But historically, Judaism started before Christianity, and Christianity started before Islam...

So Pharaoh couldn't have been a Muslim, there were no Muslims in his era

I don't understand.
Quran says Pharaoh was a Muslim. I stand with the Quran.

IMEI:
➜The plagues were only the beginning and were warnings at that point, the painful punishment is the one that finishes off the receiver and guarantees eternal punishment, which in this case is the drowning
➜The same as Prophet Lut in Sodom and Gomorrah, Prophet Saleh, Prophet Nuh (peace be up on them all) Allah accepts the repentance of a man so long as the death rattle has not yet reached his throat (Google this)
➜Repentance was closed off to the pharaoh when he was about to die at the very point of death

Again, you saying that Pharoah was a condemned man, no longer able to become a muslim, after the plagues instituted by Allah of the Muslims began?

2. The plague in Pharoah's case started before the death rattle — his actual drowing incident. Or are we talking of a different death rattle here?

3. You said ealier that it was closed off when the plagues began. Now you are saying it was when he was about to die — drown. Can you pick one please?

IMEI:
➜Whatever torment that was visited, was for pharaoh and those who followed him

Really? So, Allah of the Muslims responded just before death to all the non-muslims among the Pharoah's people who died during the whole ordeal?

Kobojunkie:
Again, you saying that Pharoah was a condemned man, no longer able to become a muslim, after the plagues instituted by Allah of the Muslims began?

2. The plague in Pharoah's case started before the death rattle — his actual drowing incident. Or are we talking of a different death rattle here?

3. You said ealier that it was closed off when the plagues began. Now you are saying it was when he was about to die — drown. Can you pick one please?

I say what I say, you understand what you understand

You're the one who's confused, you do the picking

Kobojunkie:
Really? So, Allah of the Muslims responded just before death to all the non-muslims among the Pharoah's people who died during the whole ordeal?

In trying to make a mockery, you're making yourself look more stupid

Please stop responding to him. He just wants to argue. If anyone wants to clarify about pharaoh's position in the Qur'an, let him/her go and read the whole Qur'an by themselves.

IMEI:
I say what I say, you understand what you understand

You're the one who's confused, you do the picking

The way he even writes "Allah of the Muslims" tells you that he just wants mock you. Allah guides whom he wishes.

IMEI:
In trying to make a mockery, you're making yourself look more stupid

IMEI:
✓ I say what I say, you understand what you understand
You're the one who's confused, you do the picking

This confusion stems from your earlier response insisting that the punishment of this life as instituted --the torment of pharaoh-- by the Allah of Muslims on Pharaoh began at the point that the plagues were initialized.

IMEI:
✓ [b]The punishments of this life began with the plagues and were sealed with the drowning [/b]after he and his armies followed Moses and his followers across the sea

IMEI:
✓ In trying to make a mockery, you're making yourself look more stupid

Make a mockery of what? You? Why? The other fellow whose suggestions seem to conflict with yours equally claims to be a Muslim.

RealAbba:
The way he even writes "Allah of the Muslims" tells you that he just wants mock you. Allah guides whom he wishes.

I know, I know her posting history... it's a woman