₦airaland Forum

Christ voluntarily laid down His life as an atonement for God’s wrath against the sinfulness of mankind.
John 3:16

Old Testament (Prophecy of the Suffering Servant)

Isaiah 53:4-5 –
"Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed."

This prophecy foretells the Messiah's duty to suffer and die for the sins of the people.

New Testament (Jesus’ Words About Laying Down His Life)

1. John 10:17-18 –
"The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Jesus declares that it is His duty, given by the Father, to lay down His life.

2. John 15:13 –
"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."

This highlights the Son’s sacrificial love and His duty to die for others.

The Son obeyed the Father, thereby setting the example for us who are sons and daughters by adoption to follow.

The Second Person of the Trinity who is the Son communicates with the Father by prayer.

That doesn't make Him any less Divine. All it means is that He humbled Himself to step out of Eternity and into nature in the form of a human being as a servant and obedient Son.

Christ died because it was the Son's duty to die and be resurrected, not the Father's or the Holy Spirit.

Antichristian2:
This is even worse! So can we say Jesus died when he saw the father died?

If the father's power is the same as that of the son, then the father should have come to save humans not the son! And the son shouldn't have claimed the father is greater than him. And why is Jesus always praying to the father? Getting authority from the father? Doing the father's will? Can equal persons send each other messages where one is the sender and the other is the messenger?

Do Equal Gods worship one another? If Jesus worshipped the father, where did the father worshipped Jesus?

Jesus died! Can the father and the spirit too die? When did they die?

You should really stop doing this because you keep exposing the degree of abject ignorance you have about Scripture.

The Israelites ALWAYS acknowledged God as their Father. It is written all over the Old Testament:


1. Exodus 4:22-23 –
"Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’”

Here, God directly refers to Israel as His "firstborn son," emphasizing their special status among the nations.

2. Deuteronomy 32:19-20 –
"The LORD saw this and rejected them because He was angered by His sons and daughters. ‘I will hide my face from them,’ He said, ‘and see what their end will be; for they are a perverse generation, children who are unfaithful.’"

God refers to the Israelites as His "sons and daughters," but also rebukes their disobedience.


3. Isaiah 1:2 –
"Hear, O heavens! Listen, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: 'I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.'"

This passage portrays Israel as God’s children who have turned away from Him.

4. Jeremiah 3:19 –
"I myself said, ‘How gladly would I treat you like my children and give you a pleasant land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.’ I thought you would call me ‘Father’ and not turn away from following me."

Here, God explicitly expresses His desire for Israel to acknowledge Him as their Father.

5. Hosea 1:10 –
"Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’"

This passage speaks of a future restoration where Israel will once again be recognized as God's children.

The apostles were addressing Jewish audiences who were more knowledgeable about their special status in the eyes of God the Father as His adopted children, but were ignorant about the status of Christ as their Messiah because their religious teachers like the Rabbis and Pharisees had given them false teachings about Christ.

It was important for the Christological knowledge of these Jewish converts to be firmly established in accordance with their knowledge of the Old Testament which they already had, unlike the gentile pagan nations. That is why Paul and Peter concentrated on the One issue for which there was a deficiency in their Spiritual knowledge and that is their ignorance of the Divinity of Christ as the Second Person of the Triune God.

Even if they had an understanding of God the father (which i doubt any Jew recognises the word God the father) the disciples should have followed Jesus's command to baptise the people in the name of the father, son and the holy spirit. It is an express command which they didn't obey!

This casts an aspersion on the book of Matthew. Did that event actually happened? Did Jesus really tell them to baptise in the name of the trinity? Will the disciples disobey Jesus if he truly had said that?

Yes, I do. The 3 Persons of the Godhead are distinct but they all share the same Eternal, uncreated and Divine Nature

Truthseeker10:
Do agree with the diagram below?

Antichristian2:
➜Was the Bible written for everyone? Was even Jesus aware of the entire Bible as it is today? The ➜Qur'an was recited during the lifetime of Muhammad. The Torah was recited during the lifetime of Moses! Was the New Testament recited during the lifetime of Jesus?

You folks and your crazy logic ehn! See baseless rules abeg! 😂😂😂😂😂

2. LOL...The Law of Moses was not recited to all but to the people of Israel(and the foreigners among them) since it was the National Constitution of the Nation created by YHWH in Canaan. It was never meant for all but for those who inhabited the nation of Israel constituted by YHWH, a nation on this earth. Jesus Christ of Israel, on the other hand, is a Constitutional Law for a nation that is not of this earth. Your recital rules there which hold no ground outside of your mind do not count. Only those who first became citizens — born-again—of the Kingdom can go on to gain an understanding of the Law. 😁

BlackViper:
Christ voluntarily laid down His life as an atonement for God’s wrath against the sinfulness of mankind.
John 3:16

Old Testament (Prophecy of the Suffering Servant)

Isaiah 53:4-5 –
"Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed."

This prophecy foretells the Messiah's duty to suffer and die for the sins of the people.

New Testament (Jesus’ Words About Laying Down His Life)

1. John 10:17-18 –
"The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Jesus declares that it is His duty, given by the Father, to lay down His life.

2. John 15:13 –
"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."

This highlights the Son’s sacrificial love and His duty to die for others.

The Son obeyed the Father, thereby setting the example for us who are sons and daughters by adoption to follow.

The Second Person of the Trinity who is the Son communicates with the Father by prayer.

That doesn't make Him any less Divine. All it means is that He humbled Himself to step out of Eternity and into nature in the form of a human being as a servant and obedient Son.

Christ died because it was the Son's duty to die and be resurrected, not the Father's or the Holy Spirit.

Who created man to be sinful? Who created sin in the first place? And what's the importance of killing your son (which happens to be yourself) when you can just forgive anyone who repents.

The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him. But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. Ezekiel 18:20-22

You should really stop doing this because you keep exposing the degree of abject ignorance you have about Scripture.

The Israelites ALWAYS acknowledged God as their Father. It is written all over the Old Testament:


1. Exodus 4:22-23 –
"Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’”

Here, God directly refers to Israel as His "firstborn son," emphasizing their special status among the nations.

2. Deuteronomy 32:19-20 –
"The LORD saw this and rejected them because He was angered by His sons and daughters. ‘I will hide my face from them,’ He said, ‘and see what their end will be; for they are a perverse generation, children who are unfaithful.’"

God refers to the Israelites as His "sons and daughters," but also rebukes their disobedience.


3. Isaiah 1:2 –
"Hear, O heavens! Listen, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: 'I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.'"

This passage portrays Israel as God’s children who have turned away from Him.

4. Jeremiah 3:19 –
"I myself said, ‘How gladly would I treat you like my children and give you a pleasant land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.’ I thought you would call me ‘Father’ and not turn away from following me."

Here, God explicitly expresses His desire for Israel to acknowledge Him as their Father.

5. Hosea 1:10 –
"Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’"

This passage speaks of a future restoration where Israel will once again be recognized as God's children.

The apostles were addressing Jewish audiences who were more knowledgeable about their special status in the eyes of God the Father as His adopted children, but were ignorant about the status of Christ as their Messiah because their religious teachers like the Rabbis and Pharisees had given them false teachings about Christ.

It was important for the Christological knowledge of these Jewish converts to be firmly established in accordance with their knowledge of the Old Testament which they already had, unlike the gentile pagan nations. That is why Paul and Peter concentrated on the One issue for which there was a deficiency in their Spiritual knowledge and that is their ignorance of the Divinity of Christ as the Second Person of the Triune God.

You accused me earlier of context, in which of the verses you quoted did you include the context?

The Israelites didn't attach divinity to themselves. Though they have this racist mentality from the Bible as God's special people. But God only chooses them as far as they submit to Him alone.

That is false as i said. Jesus made a command in Matthew specifying the manner in which they should baptize people.

The disciples deviated from this command which means one of the following:

they never received the message (Matthew was a lie).
They forgot the message (and they may have forgotten so many things too).
They promoted what they wished to promote. (Agenda of the Romans).

Kobojunkie:
You folks and your crazy logic ehn! See baseless rules abeg! 😂😂😂😂😂

2. LOL...The Law of Moses was not recited to all but to the people of Israel(and the foreigners among them) since it was the National Constitution of the Nation created by YHWH in Canaan. It was never meant for all but for those who inhabited the nation of Israel constituted by YHWH, a nation on this earth. Jesus Christ of Israel, on the other hand, is a Constitutional Law for a nation that is not of this earth. Your recital rules there which hold no ground outside of your mind do not count. Only those who first became citizens — born-again—of the Kingdom can go on to gain an understanding of the Law. 😁

Yeah baseless to you.

The law of Moses was recited to the people he was sent to.
Same as Jesus did to the people he was sent to
Same as Muhammad to the world he was sent to.

BlackViper:
Yes, I do. The 3 Persons of the Godhead are distinct but they all share the same Eternal, uncreated and Divine Nature

So If the the diagram clearly states that God is the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit, How can the Word Who is God be with God according to John 1:1?

Antichristian2:
➜Yeah baseless to you. The law of Moses was recited to the people he was sent to.
➜Same as Jesus did to the people he was sent to Same as Muhammad to the world he was sent to.

➜The fact that there is no Law in the books that requires this kind of recitation must first take place before a Law can be certified as such renders your claim baseless. This idea may apply to you Islam but it does not apply as far as YHWH and His Laws are concerned.

2. This is a lie! Jesus Christ taught His Law to His followers. He never required nor commanded a reciting of the Laws to anyone or any man. There was no such requirement in the Books of the Law of Moses either. The Laws were meant to be taught to the people, not recited.

Islam and its recitations have no connection to YHWH, His Law of Moses, or Jesus Christ.

Because ALL 3 PERSONS of the Trinity are God. They all have the essential attributes of God because they are Divine, Uncreated and Eternal.

Truthseeker10:
So If the the diagram clearly states that God is the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit, How can the Word Who is God be with God according to John 1:1?

BlackViper:
Because ALL 3 PERSONS of the Trinity are God. They all have the essential attributes of God because they are Divine, Uncreated and Eternal.

According to the Diagram's description, does John 1:1 mention another person apart from The Word That is God?

So How can the Word Who is God be with God according to John 1:1?

God did not create sin. It entered into creation as a result of Man's disobedience of God’s command.

Secondly, God is the moral arbiter and Judge of humanity. Even in a human court, repentance will not stop a guilty man from facing the consequences of his crimes. That standard is even more elevated when it comes to God’s Divine standards because they are Higher than anything humanity can achieve.

Before sin corrupted nature, Man was living up to God’s standards, but once he fell, it was going to take an extraordinary act of Divine compassion to reconcile man in his fallen state with God.

Ezekiel 18-20 to 22 is referring to mere mortals, not to First and Second Persons of the Trinity because God does not and cannot sin. It is simply not in His Divine Nature.

Antichristian2:
Who created man to be sinful? Who created sin in the first place? And what's the importance of killing your son (which happens to be yourself) when you can just forgive anyone who repents.

The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him. But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. Ezekiel 18:20-22

Where exactly did I say that the Israelites attached divinity to themselves? Or is putting words into people's mouths part of your Taqqiya script?

I never said there was anything Divine about the people of Israel, just that God elevated them above all the other peoples of the Earth.

They may not look like morally righteous people anymore, but that is because for 2000 years, the overwhelming majority of them have rejected their Messiah and there are severe spiritual consequences for this act of rebellion against the Will of God.

You accused me earlier of context, in which of the verses you quoted did you include the context?

The Israelites didn't attach divinity to themselves. Though they have this racist mentality from the Bible as God's special people. But God only chooses them as far as they submit to Him alone.

That is false as i said. Jesus made a command in Matthew specifying the manner in which they should baptize people.

The disciples deviated from this command which means one of the following:

they never received the message (Matthew was a lie).
They forgot the message (and they may have forgotten so many things too).
They promoted what they wished to promote. (Agenda of the Romans).

Because the Word who was with God is a person within the Godhead. He is the Second Person of the Triune God.

John 1:1 to 3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.


It is by His Word that God created this Universe of which the earth is a tiny speck.

Truthseeker10:
According to the Diagram's description, does John 1:1 mention another person apart from The Word That is God?

So How can the Word Who is God be with God according to John 1:1?

BlackViper:
Because the Word who was with God is a person within the Godhead. He is the Second Person of the Triune God.

John 1:1 to 3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.


It is by His Word that God created this Universe of which the earth is a tiny speck.

So please where does the Diagram attached numbers to the persons?

Does the diagram say that The Word is a second person within the Godhead or it says The word is God?

We don't derive the divine nature of the Triune God from a diagram, rather we get a full picture from Scripture.

The diagram is simply a schematic to help explain what the basic idea of the Trinity is.

Truthseeker10:
So please where does the Diagram attached numbers to the persons?

Does the diagram say that The Word is a second person within the Godhead or it says The word is God?

BlackViper:
We don't derive the divine nature of the Triune God from a diagram, rather we get a full picture from Scripture.

The diagram is simply a schematic to help explain what the basic idea of the Trinity is.

So is the diagram description of a triune God as God is the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit wrong?

Where does the scriptures number the persons of the triune God?

Are you actually this dense or do you really need my help in explaining Scripture to you?

Truthseeker10:
So is the diagram description of a triune God as God is the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit wrong?

Where does the scriptures number the persons of the triune God?

BlackViper:
Are you actually this dense or do you really need my help in explaining Scripture to you?

Oga where does the scriptures number the persons of the Trinity?

Truthseeker10:
Oga where does the scriptures number the persons of the Trinity?

Oga trinitarians don provoke!

BlackViper:
God did not create sin. It entered into creation as a result of Man's disobedience of God’s command.

Secondly, God is the moral arbiter and Judge of humanity. Even in a human court, repentance will not stop a guilty man from facing the consequences of his crimes. That standard is even more elevated when it comes to God’s Divine standards because they are Higher than anything humanity can achieve.

Before sin corrupted nature, Man was living up to God’s standards, but once he fell, it was going to take an extraordinary act of Divine compassion to reconcile man in his fallen state with God.

Ezekiel 18-20 to 22 is referring to mere mortals, not to First and Second Persons of the Trinity because God does not and cannot sin. It is simply not in His Divine Nature.

Isaiah 45:7: This verse states that God "forms light and creates darkness, I make peace and create evil." This passage suggests that God can use both good and evil for His purposes.

Job 1-2: This book explores the concept of God's sovereignty and permission. It depicts Satan seeking permission from God to test Job's faith. While God allows suffering and hardship, He ultimately remains in control. I can't imagine how Job's family and properties were destroyed by God's permission in a test.

Where exactly did I say that the Israelites attached divinity to themselves? Or is putting words into people's mouths part of your Taqqiya script?

I never said there was anything Divine about the people of Israel, just that God elevated them above all the other peoples of the Earth.

They may not look like morally righteous people anymore, but that is because for 2000 years, the overwhelming majority of them have rejected their Messiah and there are severe spiritual consequences for this act of rebellion against the Will of God.

Did i say you said that? You should point out any thing that looks false here cos i know when the response gets into you you start crying "Taqqiya script". They rejected Jesus just as they've been doing before with other Prophets sent to them!

Does the Scripture say that there is more than 3 Divine Persons in the Trinity?

Truthseeker10:
Oga where does the scriptures number the persons of the Trinity?

BlackViper:
➜Does the Scripture say that there is more than 3 Divine Persons in the Trinity?

The Trinity delusion, along with every other god-delusion you carry, has nothing to do with Israelite Scripture. It is a construct that is wholly of religion, particularly the religion founded by those whom Jesus Christ of Israel referred to as dogs — non-Israelites — whom He warned were incapable of handling that which is holy.

Antichristian2:
New International Version
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

New Living Translation
Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”

Isa.49.6 He says, "You will do more than restore the people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Kobojunkie:
According to the books of the Gospel, the same Jesus Christ equally made clear through direct word — figures of speech included — that He was sent by His Father only to the bloodline of Jacob.

⚉ In John 6 vs 37-38, Jesus Christ proclaimed, "The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them. I came down from heaven to do what God wants, not what I want." This statement invariably means Jesus Christ of Israel had no choice in picking the people that would be His; His Father is the one who made the decision as far as the people Jesus Christ was sent.
⚉ In Matthew 15 vs 20, Jesus Christ announced that He was sent by His Father only to the Lost Sheep of Israel— the bloodline of Jacob. By this, He officially declared Himself savior to the race of Israelites and not of any other race — Jesus Christ of Israel.
⚉ In John 3 vs 14 - 18, we learn from Jesus Christ of Israel that the people whom His Father loves — YHWH(God of Israel) were the very same people whom Moses, who was sent before Him, raised the Serpent in the desert to save. He went on to describe them as " the World"(a metonymy, a figure of speech, used as a reference to the condemned of Israel), which God loved.
⚉ In Matthew 7 vs. 6, Jesus Christ of Israel openly warned His followers against giving what is Holy to the dogs — non-Israelites— declaring the dogs incapable of handling that which is Holy — they are unqualified to do so.
⚉ In Matthew 10 vs. 1 - 6, when Jesus Christ of Israel had the opportunity to send His disciples out to announce the Kingdom of God, He sent them only to the Israelites.
⚉ Then, in Matthew 28 vs. 16-20 and Mark 16 s 15 - 18, applying the same metonymy he had earlier used, Jesus Christ of Israel dispersed His followers into the World which He had previously described to His followers.
⚉ To seal it all, in Luke 24, Jesus Christ proclaimed that His Word is Everlasting meaning it can never be changed ---- not by Him, or any human being even after He is dead and gone.

YHWH bestowed on Himself the title of "God of Israel", and this as He gave the name "Israel" only to the man named Jacob. Jesus Christ of Israel, himself a descendant of the bloodline of Jacob who is called Israel, NEVER indicated that He was sent to or came to save non-Israelites. The lie that He did was fabricated entirely by those of the religions of Christianity and Islam.

Isa.49.6 He says, "You will do more than restore the people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

gohf:
Isa.49.6 He says, "You will do more than restore the people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

This was referring to another person as Jesus was never mentioned! I can even claim it is Muhammad!

Did Jesus lied he was sent only to Israel?

➜Isa.49.6 He says, "You will do more than restore the people of Israel to me. I will make you a light to the Gentiles, and you will bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

A Gentile is a member of a specific bloodline and nation(family) living in a foreign land. The term was first used about the descendants of Noah's Son, Japheth, in Genesis 10, who had migrated further out to different countries from their homeland.
Japheth’s Descendants

2 Japheth’s sons were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.
3 Gomer’s sons were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.
4 Javan’s sons were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.[a]
5 All the people who lived in the area around the Mediterranean Sea came from these sons of Japheth. The people separated and went to different countries according to languages, families, and nations. - Genesis 10 vs 2 - 5

As stated in verse 5, the people referred to as Gentiles in the above passage where people who were part of the family of Japheth— blood descendants— though they lived in other nations(away from their family's homeland).

BlackViper:
Does the Scripture say that there is more than 3 Divine Persons in the Trinity?

So where does the scriptures number them?

Antichristian2:
This was referring to another person as Jesus was never mentioned! I can even claim it is Muhammad!

Did Jesus lied he was sent only to Israel?

was Muhammad sent to the Israelites? Was he an Israelite?

Why would you ask if Jesus lied, when you claimed he wrote nor sanctioned any book?

gohf:
was Muhammad sent to the Israelites? Was he an Israelite?

He was sent to the whole world! Israel is just a subset of the world!

Why would you ask if Jesus lied, when you claimed he wrote nor sanctioned any book?

So we should take the Phrase as a lie then! Jesus lied to the canaanite woman that he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

Antichristian2:
He was sent to the whole world! Israel is just a subset of the world!

So we should take the Phrase as a lie then! Jesus lied to the canaanite woman that he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

is that your answer to the question I asked you of why you are asking?

So according to you Isaiah wrote about Muhammad so what was his message to the Israelites

MaxInDHouse:
Oga trinitarians don provoke!

You can't see your deluded brother going in circles.

He's question has been answered yet just repeating the same question.

Intelligent person will ask question based on the answer(s) supply to question but he keeps repeating the same question instead of pointing out what is wrong in the person answer.

I know you're not bright to figure that out.

BlackViper:
We don't derive the divine nature of the Triune God from a diagram, rather we get a full picture from Scripture.

The diagram is simply a schematic to help explain what the basic idea of the Trinity is.

where did you find that full picture in scripture?
Where you are told there are three gods God the father god the son god the spirit. Please post the scripture here so we can read it, even if it's not in the scriptures use the gospels and letters and revelations as well.

Emusan:
You can't see your deluded brother going in circles. He's question has been answered yet just repeating the same question. Intelligent person will ask question based on the answer(s) supply to question but he keeps repeating the same question instead of pointing out what is wrong in the person answer. I know you're not bright to figure that out.

Sorry o!
I know sey na me be your problem on this forum!