₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
how do you as an atheist determine what's good or bad? 🤨

Dude, if I slap u without any reason, is it good or bad? If I steal ur money is it good or bad? Why do I need the inducement of eternal damnation or bliss to do what is good as an upright human?

Gabrielshow24:
I asked for your objective basis.
You elucidated a rhetoric without proof!!!
Now I am asking for your burden of proof along with the foundational basis for your "philosophical stances" 🤨

You alluded to simple reason.
Now, don't you think the conclusion you arrive as "good" might not be the same as someone else's conclusion?🤨

How then do you resolve such situation?🤔
Now imagine this globally🤔!!!
Consider wisely the implications of your statements 🤔

In the Bible, slavery was condoned. In the old testament, Yhwh encouraged it, even told Israelites to take slaves from neighboring lands. In the new testament, it was stated that slaves should obey their masters as if they are god. Many other verses too support many actions that are deemed immoral today.
If we are to take the bible as a moral compass, we'd have adopted slavery but we as humans have thought it out and realized that slavery aint moral. Philosophical codes like Hammurabi Codes(where the bible copied the 10 commandments) guide us along with societal and cultural influences

jaephoenix:
In the Bible, slavery was condoned. In the old testament, Yhwh encouraged it, even told Israelites to take slaves from neighboring lands. In the new testament, it was stated that slaves should obey their masters as if they are god. Many other verses too support many actions that are deemed immoral today.
If we are to take the bible as a moral compass, we'd have adopted slavery but we as humans have thought it out and realized that slavery aint moral. Philosophical codes like Hammurabi Codes(where the bible copied the 10 commandments) guide us along with societal and cultural influences

Thanks God, we didn't follow the Hammurabi code🙃.
You would have been vindicated by natural forces 🙃.

Like I said, it implicitly condemned slavery!
And it was in the New testament 🤔.

I mentioned that verse myself like I said, I don't lie.
Even though God allowed Israelites to keep slaves it was quite different from the slavery of the world🤔 but when Jesus came he made it clear all men were equal.

He even hinted on things just permitted not originally in the divine plan such as divorce, slavery etc

That's why his disciples understood this as a conclusion to why under Christ we are one!!!

jaephoenix:
Dude, if I slap u without any reason, is it good or bad? If I steal ur money is it good or bad? Why do I need the inducement of eternal damnation or bliss to do what is good as an upright human?

What is good to you?
Might not necessarily be good to me🙃.

Some enjoy being beaten 😁, some even enjoy feeling pain—if you know you know!

Like I discussed with the lovely damsel and your colleague!
How do you reconcile this?
What then is objectively good for all? 🙃

Gabrielshow24:
That makes an assumption that I have a "conscience"🤨

How are you certain that I have one? 🤔
What of those that their supposed "conscience" has been seared? 🤨

What then is " good" or "bad"?
As far as I am concerned it's good to me🤨!
—Someone was blocking my way so I shot him, problem solved🤔.
Is that not good for me?

Yeah, some people don't have conscience and that has impacted negatively in the world, like many leaders who have caused wars by trying to annex land from their neighbors.
Some also have conscience

Gabrielshow24:
You seem to forget that Christianity is the foundation of common law!!!

Previous laws such as Hammurabi code didn't treat all equally.

You see where am getting to with this!!!
Kindly go outside, ask 10 people whether or not Tinubu's administration is "good" or "bad".

Let's start from there🙃.
Don't even do that, just peruse on Nairaland some threads and see the differing opinions of his administration!!!

In that case, is Tinubu's administration objectively good?

The bible got its 10 commandments from that Hammurabi Code, and the Bible isn't even a moral compass. Your god commanded a lot of actions which would be atrocities in todays morals.
Imagine if we incorporated the Bible laws into our Constitution?
Anyway the common law has many origin which include Bible, secular humanism etc

LordReed:
Stated what? No where in your discourse with cococandy was the Code of Hammurabi mentioned.

The Code of Hammurabi predates Christianity by almost 1,800 years so the idea that men needed your god to formulate laws is hogwash.

Talking about equality show me where in the Bible slavery was condemned.

Christians justified slavery with the Bible until the 1800s for crying out loud. Even now some Chrisitians still maintain that people like you and I are inferior because of the colour of our skin and will defend it with the Bible. So much for objectivity huh.

The Bible doesn't even promote equality. Women can't preach, slavery is allowed and encouraged etc

jaephoenix:
The Bible doesn't even promote equality. Women can't preach, slavery is allowed and encouraged etc

He says Paul condemn sexuality so no male or female because in heaven there won't be male or female. Ever hear such dumbassery. LoLz

jaephoenix:
The Bible doesn't even promote equality. Women can't preach, slavery is allowed and encouraged etc

Women can preach, you have a wrong understanding.
A woman taught Apollos, the christian teacher!
What Paul admonished was a certain level of learning before undergoing such!

The teacher of Apollos, I can't remember her name now but will check and get back to you on this was a learned lady among others!!!

Edit: her name was Priscilla!

Gabrielshow24:
Under Christ there is no Greek, jew, master or slave but all are equal - paraphrased greatly from Paul but you get my gist.

Conviction in Christ made christians scrap slavery!!!
After all Christ says love your neighbor as yourself!!!

If not for this slavery would have been the order of the day🙃.

Same Paul that said slaves obey your slavemasters like you obey god?
Same Paul that said

1 Timothy 2:11-12
King James Version
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Timothy 2:11-12
King James Version
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Abolition of slavery was made by King George III and started by William Grenville, 1st Baron Grenville. Wilberforce then continued it. None of that came from the bible cos people enslaved others by quoting the bible. Guess the name of the first slave ship? Jesus!

LordReed:
He says Paul condemn sexuality so no male or female because in heaven there won't be male or female. Ever hear such dumbassery. LoLz

This is a straw man!
Paul confirmed Jesus' words of christians not marrying or being given in marriage in Heaven!

The theme of the verse was to show oneness with God.
We saw and loved one another as ourselves!!!

Gabrielshow24:
No one disputes that.
Any tom, dick and Harry can make laws?

How profitable are they to the good of all? 🤨
I do remember some civilizations that had different laws — equality not being one of them,
Justice sometimes overlooked etc

Some had laws to make men face perilous circumstances, some had laws to kill twins,
Some had laws (recommendations) to drink houseflies🙃, some had laws to drink camel urine, some had laws to sleep with underage girls!!!

And the list goes on and on!!!
In all those societies you appeal to, you won't have the values you presently take for granted!!!

The values that stemmed from Christ!!!

Lol 😆
Your bible said working on sabbath is death sentence. And you'll be punished for wearing cloth of different fiber and wating shellfish. Imagine those are laws today.
Also those laws u stated aren't in force today cos those societies have moved on

jaephoenix:
Same Paul that said slaves obey your slavemasters like you obey god?
Same Paul that said

1 Timothy 2:11-12
King James Version
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Timothy 2:11-12
King James Version
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Abolition of slavery was made by King George III and started by William Grenville, 1st Baron Grenville. Wilberforce then continued it. None of that came from the bible cos people enslaved others by quoting the bible. Guess the name of the first slave ship? Jesus!

Like I have stated earlier!
The woman was to "learn in silence" until when she had attained some certain level of understanding then she can proceed in teaching!

There were a lot of early women that taught others one of whom I mentioned, Priscilla!

Paul said so because there were some christians as at then that were slaves to non-christians!

Also the fact that they too as at then were a minority made Paul conclude so!
He also admonished them not to run the physical race but to look towards Christ the "author and finisher of our faith"!!!

-----------
Also anyone can name any object after any concept or being.
It doesn't necessarily mean the being is complicit to the effects of such!!!

Gabrielshow24:
It's clearly written there,
Those that fought against slavery were convinced of the verse!
Coupled with God's second commandment, love your neighbor as yourself!!!

I wouldn't want to be beaten, whipped or sun dried for menial reasons!!!
Also, all those that fought for the freedom of slaves were all christians!!!

I'm not saying that some elements didn't use some certain verses out of context but what am saying is that the present "freedom" you have comes from a Christian foundation!!!

You won't have all these values if you lived in the time of Hammurabi, or perhaps in an Islamic society or any society you can think of for that matter!!!

Please how are these bible verses out of context?

• Ephesians 6:5 - "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." This passage instructs slaves to obey their masters, implying slavery is acceptable.

• Leviticus 25:44-46 - This passage allows the buying and selling of foreign slaves as property that can be passed down as inheritance. It places no time limit on slavery.

• 1 Timothy 6:1-2 - "Those who are under the yoke of slavery should regard their masters as deserving of all honor." This passage promotes slaves honoring their masters, indicating slavery is part of the divine order.

• Colossians 3:22 - "Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters." Like Ephesians 6:5, this passage commands slaves to completely obey their masters, legitimizing slavery.

• Exodus 21:2-6 - This passage lays out laws regarding the treatment of Hebrew slaves but sanctions permanent slavery for those who do not want to leave their masters. It also allows male slaves to be passed down to children as inheritance.

Deut 20:16-17 has God ordering the Hebrews to commit 6 complete and total genocides.

1 Sam 15:3 has God explicitly ordering another complete and total genocide including killing infants.


Rape:
Deut 22:28-29 lays out the means by which a man may rape a virgin, pay off her father, and marry her. Nothing says that she has the right to say no.

jaephoenix:
Lol 😆
Your bible said working on sabbath is death sentence. And you'll be punished for wearing cloth of different fiber and wating shellfish. Imagine those are laws today.
Also those laws u stated aren't in force today cos those societies have moved on

Most of those laws are more symbolic in nature🤔

As touching the shellfish that was a definite syllogism to their disassociation to certain behaviors and people.

As touching, not wearing clothing of two different things, that's symbolic to their belief in God!

Sabbath day is self explanatory.
The Jews took its enforcement quite stringent!
Jesus talked about this by saying "Man was not made for the sabbath day but the sabbath for man"

jaephoenix:
Please how are these bible verses out of context?

• Ephesians 6:5 - "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." This passage instructs slaves to obey their masters, implying slavery is acceptable.

• Leviticus 25:44-46 - This passage allows the buying and selling of foreign slaves as property that can be passed down as inheritance. It places no time limit on slavery.

• 1 Timothy 6:1-2 - "Those who are under the yoke of slavery should regard their masters as deserving of all honor." This passage promotes slaves honoring their masters, indicating slavery is part of the divine order.

• Colossians 3:22 - "Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters." Like Ephesians 6:5, this passage commands slaves to completely obey their masters, legitimizing slavery.

• Exodus 21:2-6 - This passage lays out laws regarding the treatment of Hebrew slaves but sanctions permanent slavery for those who do not want to leave their masters. It also allows male slaves to be passed down to children as inheritance.

Deut 20:16-17 has God ordering the Hebrews to commit 6 complete and total genocides.

1 Sam 15:3 has God explicitly ordering another complete and total genocide including killing infants.


Rape:
Deut 22:28-29 lays out the means by which a man may rape a virgin, pay off her father, and marry her. Nothing says that she has the right to say no.

I have touched Paul's allusion to why these verses were given!

You can see from there, "those under the yoke of slavery", "earthly masters" etc.
This acted has a guideline of how christians in such situation should behave!!!

But within the christian community we treat all with love!!!
Both friends and foes🤤!!!

jaephoenix:
Please how are these bible verses out of context?

• Ephesians 6:5 - "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." This passage instructs slaves to obey their masters, implying slavery is acceptable.

• Leviticus 25:44-46 - This passage allows the buying and selling of foreign slaves as property that can be passed down as inheritance. It places no time limit on slavery.

• 1 Timothy 6:1-2 - "Those who are under the yoke of slavery should regard their masters as deserving of all honor." This passage promotes slaves honoring their masters, indicating slavery is part of the divine order.

• Colossians 3:22 - "Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters." Like Ephesians 6:5, this passage commands slaves to completely obey their masters, legitimizing slavery.

• Exodus 21:2-6 - This passage lays out laws regarding the treatment of Hebrew slaves but sanctions permanent slavery for those who do not want to leave their masters. It also allows male slaves to be passed down to children as inheritance.

Deut 20:16-17 has God ordering the Hebrews to commit 6 complete and total genocides.

1 Sam 15:3 has God explicitly ordering another complete and total genocide including killing infants.


Rape:
Deut 22:28-29 lays out the means by which a man may rape a virgin, pay off her father, and marry her. Nothing says that she has the right to say no.

Touching genocide.
The bible records of the Lord sanctioning this because of the wickedness of the said Nations!!!

Touching rape:
The understanding then was that the "woman" was under the supervision of her male relative (be it Dad, or Brother) and even when wickedness is done unto her, the perpetrator must seek her hand in marriage, rightfully atoning for the wickedness he had done to her.

Whether she had a say or not was heavily implied that she didn't!!!

Her male relative made decisions for her!!!
Hence the Father decided whom he wanted his daughter to marry!!!

Gabrielshow24:
Unfortunately for you, history is not on your side.

His teachings of resisting evil, love your neighbor as yourself, pray for your enemy were what👀?

They didn't reform the society?
They formed the foundational basis for christian values!

They produced what became common law!!!

The Origin of common law is both religious (christianity and islam)and atheistic(secular humanism)
The bible gave 10 commandments each one strictly giving instructions for each human vice. At no point did yhwh say thou shalt not enslave anyone. He listed adultery, idolatry etc but slavery, nope! Guess his next instructions after the 10 Commandments? Take slaves from your neighboring countries!

Gabrielshow24:
It's not hard, if you want the bible verse here it is
Galatians 3:28: There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus

The problem with paul is that he's a two sided sonofabitch! He'll say this and next thing that comes out of his mouth bam! No woman can preach! Slaves obey slavemasters! Etc

Gabrielshow24:
It's nice how you cleverly brought up sources without listing their theological backgrounds.

It's like bringing out Messi without mentioning Argentina🤧.

Well it buttresses your point doesn't it? 🤣🤣
To burst your bible what's the religious belief of the king you talked about?

Except if you want to assume the king was just like you😂😂😂.

Any way have at it🙃

So those English kings were Christians? Same kings that have many concubines, drunks, stole etc? Lol 😆

jaephoenix:
The Origin of common law is both religious (christianity and islam)and atheistic(secular humanism)
The bible gave 10 commandments each one strictly giving instructions for each human vice. At no point did yhwh say thou shalt not enslave anyone. He listed adultery, idolatry etc but slavery, nope! Guess his next instructions after the 10 Commandments? Take slaves from your neighboring countries!

I have addressed this already.
LordReed's article alludes that the common law was heavily influenced by the church🤔

Emphasis on "heavily influenced".

Well in the defense of the bible, it seems to be more as a punishment for those nations before them🤔 and it turned into a tradition when they sought to keep their slaves🤔.
Probably what led to the mosaic law of slavery!
Permitted for the time being!!!

Lending credence to Jesus' words "that some things were not meant to be so from the beginning" 🤔.

It was permitted men that's why when Jesus came he set the record straight!!!

jaephoenix:
So those English kings were Christians? Same kings that have many concubines, drunks, stole etc? Lol 😆

Most of them confess such by mouth but their actions can say the contrary 🤕.

Anyways we use their fruits to judge them following Christ's standard!

Gabrielshow24:
The question which you have failed to answer is the one you quoted above, my supposed "2nd message" to you!

I'm a Christian, I do not lie.
If I don't know something, I tell you straight up that's how I was brought up!!!
I hate evasion, do you see you have me mistaken?

Who after all has been eluding the other's question?
I know you must have been used to some christians on this forum that tell lies and are intellectually dishonest but I am not like them.

Now that this is settled, kindly answer the question for all to see.
Let's learn together, we are not enemies 🙃

The most bleeped up thing I have heard today.
When a Nigerian tells me that, I know the next thing that comes out of that mouth would be a barefaced white lie

Gabrielshow24:
This is a straw man!
Paul confirmed Jesus' words of christians not marrying or being given in marriage in Heaven!

The theme of the verse was to show oneness with God.
We saw and loved one another as ourselves!!!

Ok so you no longer believe that that passage condemns slavery? Good! LoLz.

Gabrielshow24:
Irrespective of your allusions, the common law was heavily influenced by the church and hence as a result CHRIST!!!

it was built on Christ's principles🤔!!!
That's the take home.
It didn't originate from Islamic countries or even polytheistic countries but rather from a Christ influenced nation.

This in no wise ridicules or downplays the laws present in other nations but rather to show the influence of Christ in the formation of common law!!!

If so, why didn't it say idolatry, homosexuality etc are crimes now?

jaephoenix:
The problem with paul is that he's a two sided sonofabitch! He'll say this and next thing that comes out of his mouth bam! No woman can preach! Slaves obey slavemasters! Etc

He is not, you need to understand the angle he is coming from!

Some christians were under slavery: he didn't want to suggest an uprising hence he gave them a subtle advise, obey your masters and keep your head on the heavenly goal!

While some christians were free!
All in all, in Christian gatherings all were treated equally both those that were under the yoke of slavery and those that were not!

That was the message he intended to pass across!

jaephoenix:
If so, why didn't it say idolatry, homosexuality etc are crimes now?

It condemns other "natural" practices such as bestiality, homosexuality etc.

The Mosaic law does that and Christians echo that also!!!

LordReed:
Ok so you no longer believe that that passage condemns slavery? Good! LoLz.

If you treat your colleague as your equal, would you subjugate him under you? 🤨

It condemned slavery implicitly!!!

Gabrielshow24:
Thanks God, we didn't follow the Hammurabi code🙃.
You would have been vindicated by natural forces 🙃.

Like I said, it implicitly condemned slavery!
And it was in the New testament 🤔.

I mentioned that verse myself like I said, I don't lie.
Even though God allowed Israelites to keep slaves it was quite different from the slavery of the world🤔 but when Jesus came he made it clear all men were equal.

He even hinted on things just permitted not originally in the divine plan such as divorce, slavery etc

That's why his disciples understood this as a conclusion to why under Christ we are one!!!

1.How is the slavery of the bible different from 'Slavery of the world' ?
2. So r u saying god and Jesus have differing views on slavery? Btw Jesus never explicitly condemned slavery.
3. Can you quote this hint u r talking about?
4. New testament says slaves should do whatever their masters say, meaning that slavery was very much going on then. So why didn't Paul say stop slavery in any of his letters?

Gabrielshow24:
If you treat your colleague as your equal, would you subjugate him under you? 🤨

It condemned slavery implicitly!!!

Then it condemned sexuality implicitly! Stop identifying as male!

Gabrielshow24:
What is good to you?
Might not necessarily be good to me🙃.

Some enjoy being beaten 😁, some even enjoy feeling pain—if you know you know!

Like I discussed with the lovely damsel and your colleague!
How do you reconcile this?
What then is objectively good for all? 🙃

Some may enjoy getting beaten or killed. Sadomasochism, self flagellation and suicide are considered good by a minority who may be mentally challenged or psychotic. I'm talking about majority who are sane

Gabrielshow24:
Women can preach, you have a wrong understanding.
A woman taught Apollos, the christian teacher!
What Paul admonished was a certain level of learning before undergoing such!

The teacher of Apollos, I can't remember her name now but will check and get back to you on this was a learned lady among others!!!

Edit: her name was Priscilla!

Oga I posted verses where Paul strictly says NO WOMAN SHOULD PREACH. Matter of fact, 2 verses. What have u gotta say?