₦airaland Forum

FiveFootNinja:
The start of your first paragraph is already a contradiction.





I think you know you've overextended a bit with your argument and now you're trying to play it safe. It was comments like these that made me quote you in the first place:


It's pretty obvious you were trying to portray your worldview as being evidenced by QM claiming it as a framework for your belief, so it's a bit strange now that after this framework has been shown to be problematic, you are now trying to disclaim it and distance yourself from your past attempts of applying it. 😒

I have not claimed that the universe is logical or vice versa. I don't know enough to make any blanket assumptions. All I have alluded to is the fact that the universe as we know is governed by certain laws. Also I don't think your reference to the placebo effect as proof of the universe being illogical is accurate at all.

There have been research works and studies made and documented in neurobiology for the placebo effect. It has been established that the mind can influence the body's reactions through biochemical pathways. What's so mysterious or "illogical" there? 🤷🏽

And you're confusing yourself with a lot of concepts here. Like psychology for instance. It's basic psychology that if I'm envisioning myself as being clean, I'm motivating myself to take a shower, whether I'm conscious of that fact or not. And this is normal human behavior.

No dey whine us abeg. You need actual evidence to make this kind of argument to work. All these ones you're saying right now is just yarns. 🙄

With respect sir, you're not being truthful. I never said any of these is based on QM. I only said QM illustrates that the universe at core is NOT logical! (And QM is the very core of the universe).

It is beyond psychology and neurology and anything science can explain (which is what you're constantly trying to do - fit things into science). It is like trying to fit the miracles of Christ into science. Many times he said, "Your faith cured you". Your own head cured you! If your head can cure something as complex as a disease how much more these other stuff? And here you are trying to explain it with psychology and neurology!

DaddyCoool:
Consider sir, because we don't know the universe works like magic, when we want to accomplish something the first and usually only things we consider are our prevailing circumstances and how "hard" it would be from there, and secondly, "how" (the steps we have to take to get there). The magic is in the fact we can actually almost ignore those two things that seem the most important!

How is this magical? Please just stop.

StillDtruth:
No one can tell a whole story spanning generations without holes and cuts. So you are talking rubbish.

Are you an slowpoke? How is the Adam and Eve story spanning generations?

LordReed:
Where did they use magic in the fight?

When the automobile, submarines and scud missiles, infra red, Bluetooth were first made, they were called magic.

So leave excess talk

StillDtruth:
When the automobile, submarines and scud missiles, infra red, Bluetooth were first made, they were called magic.

So leave excess talk

Abeg jor, carry your yeye go one side.

LordReed:
Are you an slowpoke? How is the Adam and Eve story spanning generations?

Like you were not talking about the whole bible.

If I had said Adam and Eve now you would have changed post to the whole bible.

But now that I have covered the whole bible you have now changed post to Adam and Eve.

Even at that no can tell the whole story of their marriage and lives without holes and cuts.

So you are still talking rubbish looking for useless arguments to make.

StillDtruth:
Like you were not talking about the whole bible.

Even at that no can tell the whole story of their marriage and lives without holes and cuts.

So you are still talking rubbish looking for useless arguments to make.

SMH you really are a slowpoke for real.

LordReed:
How is this magical? Please just stop.

It is magical sir, because it makes the seemingly difficult or impossible, easy. It shifts the needful from outside you to inside your head! Which makes it all magic NOT logic or science (which are what FiveFootNinja is always trying to fit things into!)

If you THINK you are beaten, you are;
If you THINK you dare not, you don't.
If you'd like to win, but THINK you can't,
you won't.
If you THINK you'll lose, you've lost...
Sooner or later the man who wins
Is the man who THINKS he can!

DaddyCoool:
With respect sir, you're not being truthful. I never said any of these is based on QM. I only said QM illustrates that the universe at core is NOT logical! (And QM is the very core of the universe).

It is beyond psychology and neurology and anything science can explain (which is what you're constantly trying to do - fit things into science). It is like trying to fit the miracles of Christ into science. Many times he said, "Your faith cured you". Your own head cured you! If your head can cure something as complex as a disease how much more these other stuff? And here you are trying to explain it with psychology and neurology!

I quoted your very own words back at you, so there's no need for you to be disingenuous. I might give you the benefit of doubt if you really didn't understand the implications of your argument, but it was clearly evidenced in the way you presented your argument. And to be honest, it's difficult for me to believe that you really didn't know what you were doing when you said:

YES!! If you are able to honestly see yourself as totally already that. But it doesn't go by comparison (richest), but that may happen by default. It's a power we just don't use because our brain is wired to believe things have to make sense when in fact the universe is NOT logical at all!😆. Quantum mechanics has proven it!

And the tone of your delivery in that last sentence was emphatic.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to fit everything into science. I'm just telling you that most times, observable events can be explained in ways that don't necessarily subvert the common idea of causality. You're the one using magic to explain your ignorance.

DaddyCoool:
With respect sir, you're not being truthful. I never said any of these is based on QM. I only said QM illustrates that the universe at core is NOT logical! (And QM is the very core of the universe).

It is beyond psychology and neurology and anything science can explain (which is what you're constantly trying to do - fit things into science). It is like trying to fit the miracles of Christ into science. Many times he said, "Your faith cured you". Your own head cured you! If your head can cure something as complex as a disease how much more these other stuff? And here you are trying to explain it with psychology and neurology!

As for the highlighted, have you considered that the universe is actually logical, except it doesn't confirm to our own expectations? There's actually a big difference between "counterintuitive" and "illogical". Basically there's a difference between common sense and formal logic. It just occured to me that you might be confusing those two concepts.

By the way, quantum mechanics is rooted in logical systems apparently, so that's another one of your claims being shot down.
Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_logic

DaddyCoool:
It is magical sir, because it makes the seemingly difficult or impossible, easy. It shifts the needful from outside you to inside your head! Which makes it all magic NOT logic or science (which are what FiveFootNinj_a is always trying to fit things into!)

If you THINK you are beaten, you are;
If you THINK you dare not, you don't.
If you'd like to win, but THINK you can't,
you won't.
If you THINK you'll lose, you've lost...
Sooner or later the man who wins
Is the man who THINKS he can!

Like Burna Boy said: "you go dey explain tire, because no evidence". 🚶🏽🚶🏽🚶🏽

DaddyCoool:
It is magical sir, because it makes the seemingly difficult or impossible, easy. It shifts the needful from outside you to inside your head! Which makes it all magic NOT logic or science (which are what FiveFootNinja is always trying to fit things into!)

If you THINK you are beaten, you are;
If you THINK you dare not, you don't.
If you'd like to win, but THINK you can't,
you won't.
If you THINK you'll lose, you've lost...
Sooner or later the man who wins
Is the man who THINKS he can!

LoLz. These are just silly platitudes that ignore reality. Only someone living in lalaland thinks this is how the world works.

FiveFootNinja:
I quoted your very own words back at you, so there's no need for you to be disingenuous. I might give you the benefit of doubt if you really didn't understand the implications of your argument, but it was clearly evidenced in the way you presented your argument. And to be honest, it's difficult for me to believe that you really didn't know what you were doing when you said:

And the tone of your delivery in that last sentence was emphatic.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to fit everything into science. I'm just telling you that most times, observable events can be explained in ways that don't necessarily subvert the common idea of causality. You're the one using magic to explain your ignorance.

QM has proven that the universe is NOT logical at core!!!! That's ALL!!! I didn't say it proved anything else!!
And if the univere is not logical, these other stuff are NOT far-fetched (my exact words). NOT that QM proves anything in the macro world!!!!

DaddyCoool:
QM has proven that the universe is NOT logical at core!!!! That's ALL!!! I didn't say it proved anything else!!
And if the univere is not logical, these other stuff are NOT far-fetched (my exact words). NOT that QM proves anything in the macro world!!!!

Lol. I like how you just ignored everything I said (including my distinction between formal logic and common sense) only to come back and keep repeating yourself like I didn't just point out the flaws of your position. Not a good look for you I must say.

If you're going to keep repeating yourself on this subject and not offer any evidence to back your claims up, then my work here is done. I'll let discerning readers decide for themselves.

FiveFootNinja:
Lol. I like how you just ignored everything I said (including my distinction between formal logic and common sense) only to come back and keep repeating yourself like I didn't just point out the flaws of your position. Not a good look for you I must say.

If you're going to keep repeating yourself on this subject and not offer any evidence to back your claims up, then my work here is done. I'll let discerning readers decide for themselves.

WHAT do I keep repeating that is wrong?? And can you please state again what you said that you said for clarification. Maybe I missed it.

It is simple: we've known for ages through direct experience, testimonies, and observation, that people's thoughts and strong faith seem to affect reality and that results are NOT necessarily logical. THEN QM comes along and demonstrates that the universe is indeed NOT logical at core (meaning most minute level), and that our attention can indeed make something appear. It is that simple!

FiveFootNinja:
As for the highlighted, have you considered that the universe is actually logical, except it doesn't confirm to our own expectations? There's actually a big difference between "counterintuitive" and "illogical". Basically there's a difference between common sense and formal logic. It just occured to me that you might be confusing those two concepts.

By the way, quantum mechanics is rooted in logical systems apparently, so that's another one of your claims being shot down.
Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_logic

Ok, I'm just now seeing this. Let me read it and respond

FiveFootNinja:
As for the highlighted, have you considered that the universe is actually logical, except it doesn't confirm to our own expectations? There's actually a big difference between "counterintuitive" and "illogical". Basically there's a difference between common sense and formal logic. It just occured to me that you might be confusing those two concepts.

By the way, quantum mechanics is rooted in logical systems apparently, so that's another one of your claims being shot down.
Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_logic

Ok, I've now read it and your link. I think you're going to confuse yourself and the "audience" delving into mathematics.
I was going to use the word "counterintuitive" but I decided that intuition usually follows logic and what is counterintuitive is very likely to also be illogical, so no need using such a long word!
All these points below about QM are both counterintuitive and illogical (it's normal meaning)

DaddyCoool:
Ok, I've now read it and your link. I think you're going to confuse yourself and the "audience" delving mathematics.
I was going to use the word "counterintuitive" but I decided that intuition usually follows logic and what is counterintuitive is very likely to also be illogical, so no need using such a long word!
All these points below about QM are both counterintuitive and illogical (it's normal meaning)

None of these are illogical unless you don't know the meaning of the word.

DaddyCoool:
And it doesn't occur to you that they're both talking of same HOSTORICAL occurrence but with distortions from re-telling and human memory?

Nah
What about the Indian and Chinese one...or even the Yoruba or Igbo one....
They are all different...but the messages are consistent.

DaddyCoool:
Well, I may not know much but I know one thing FOR SURE: you are NOT wiser nor know better than Christ!
Christ and the apostles regarded the story as historical fact, even tracing genealogy of Christ to Adam. Who am I to believe, you or them? You who know almost nothing about how the universe works!

FYI: Jesus is a Roman Catholic invention.
So what's next?

FiveFootNinja:
Like Burna Boy said: "you go dey explain tire, because no evidence". 🚶🏽🚶🏽🚶🏽

Evidence abound of people who changed their conditions by changing their thoughts!

LordReed:
None of these are illogical unless you don't know the meaning of the word.

Both "illogical" and "counterintuitive" describe something that doesn't make sense or follow a predictable pattern. All these are counter to logic of our macro world (normal meaning of logic, as I emphasized). Of course anything can be logical within it's own context, but that's not what we're talking about. You may create a system of logic based on the quantum world and have all these logical and even intuitive, but we're talking from perspective of our macro world!

DaddyCoool:
Ok, I've now read it and your link. I think you're going to confuse yourself and the "audience" delving into mathematics.
I was going to use the word "counterintuitive" but I decided that intuition usually follows logic and what is counterintuitive is very likely to also be illogical, so no need using such a long word!
All these points below about QM are both counterintuitive and illogical (it's normal meaning)

You didn't really address anything though. Everything you captured in the screenshots are underpinned by rigorous logical formalisms. None of them strictly violate logic.

Logic and intuition are two entirely separate things. QM defies common sense, but that doesn't strip it of its logical underpinnings at all.

sonmvayina:
Nah
What about the Indian and Chinese one...or even the Yoruba or Igbo one....
They are all different...but the messages are consistent.

Non of those was cited by God incarnate as historical fact

DaddyCoool:
Evidence abound of people who changed their conditions by changing their thoughts!

QM is only concerned with the behavior of particles, not the power of positive thinking. Lol.

sonmvayina:
FYI: Jesus is a Roman Catholic invention.
So what's next?

So how come Roman Catholics don't emphasize Jesus at all, but instead Mary and others? It is the other denominations that emphasize Christ and His words

FiveFootNinja:
You didn't really address anything though. Everything you captured in the screenshots are underpinned by rigorous logical formalisms. None of them strictly violate logic.

Logic and intuition are two entirely separate things. QM defies common sense, but that doesn't strip it of its logical underpinnings at all.

I think you missed this my post:

Both "illogical" and "counterintuitive" describe something that doesn't make sense or follow a predictable pattern. All these are counter to logic of our macro world (normal meaning of logic, as I emphasized). Of course anything can be logical within it's own context, but that's not what we're talking about. You may create a system of logic based on the quantum world and have all these logical and even intuitive, but we're talking from perspective of our macro world!

DaddyCoool:
Both "illogical" and "counterintuitive" describe something that doesn't make sense or follow a predictable pattern. All these are counter to logic of our macro world (normal meaning of logic, as I emphasized). Of course anything can be logical within it's own context, but that's not what we're talking about. You may create a system of logic based on the quantum world and have all these logical and even intuitive, but we're talking from perspective of our macro world!

So they are illogical because you define them to be illogical. SMH.

If they were illogical we would not know how to find them but we found them and can even predict their characteristics. Stop saying what you don't know and redefining things to fit your kookie jargons.

Everyday247:
You ask too much questions.
If care is not taken, you may go missing.

Be warned!

You don't get lost when you ask questions. Instead of discouraging him from asking, you should humble yourself and admit that you don't have the answers.

LordReed:
So they are illogical because you define them to be illogical. SMH.

If they were illogical we would not know how to find them but we found and can even predict their characteristics. Stop saying what you don't know and refining things to fit your kookie jargons.

You are the one talking foolish sir.
1+1=11 is illogical in our normal world BUT quite logical in the binary world

DaddyCoool:
I Added this:
8. What was Adam supposed to do, his wife now knew he was a slowpoke who did not even know he was naked. If he didn't eat the fruit, if you were his wife, would you stay married to a slowpoke with no self-awareness?🤣

There is always a choice, no matter how hard it is to make it. I love your questions, though.

FiveFootNinja:
QM is only concerned with the behavior of particles, not the power of positive thinking. Lol.

For a long time thoughts and imagination were observed to seemingly affect reality then QM came along and provided physical instance where that actually happens!