₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
What would you like to know?

Hmmmm!

You made a wide ranging statement.

as you implied above, you are a convert, by JW Abi

Well

Zocalite:
Hmmmm!
You made a wide ranging statement. as you implied above, you are a convert, by JW Abi
Well

YES!

Ohyoudidnt:
Narrated by 'Umar ibn al-Khattab:
"I heard Hisham ibn Hakim reciting Surah Al-Furqan in a way different from the way I recited it. And I was about to rush to him, but I gave him a chance to finish. Then I tied his garment around his neck and brought him to Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) and said, 'I have heard this person reciting Surah Al-Furqan in a way different from the way you taught me to recite it.' The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, 'Release him. Recite, O Hisham.' So he recited in the way I heard him recite. The Prophet (peace be upon him) then said, 'It was revealed in this way.' And then he (the Prophet) said to me, 'Recite, O 'Umar.' So I recited it, and he (the Prophet) said, 'It was revealed in this way. The Quran has been revealed in seven Ahruf, so recite it in the way that is easy for you.'" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Muslim)


The linguistic diversity among Arab tribes stems from a variety of factors, including historical interactions, geographical influences, phonetic variations, morphological differences, syntactic structures, semantic shifts, and cultural significance. These elements all contribute to a [b]complex yet cohesive [/b]framework within the Arabic language.

Linguistic diversity won't change entire meaning of verses.

What you are alluding to is wrong.
Linguistic variations should only change pronunciations and words not entire context.

If truly your prophet said this, then he is a liar!
If I come to you and tell you, "Oh you didn't " Go to the bank and meet the bank manager 🤨 then all of a sudden it's written down that I said "go to the bank and meet the cleaner🙄" while another version says "Go and meet the bank manager at the town square🤨".

Do you see where I am getting with this?
Even if, I allow your pathetic excuse of Arabic diversity it shouldn't change the meaning that abrasively!!!

Some versions are so far apart that they beg the question 🤨.

Imagine, in one version it's Allah that his doing the wondering while in another version it's Mohammed's 🙄.

It just goes to show how inexact and illiterate your prophet was!!!

Well, he is not the only one to be blamed but also his companions 🤨.

This is evidence that Allah didn't preserve your Quran word for word🤔.
It's your pathetic cover up statement that fails miserably when tested!!!

MaxInDHouse:
YES!

When you see it, quote me by erasing the email address

Let's talk

Zocalite:
When you see it, quote me by erasing the email address
Let's talk

I don't DM strangers so if what you want to know can't be discussed here please log on to jw.org

Gabrielshow24:
Linguistic diversity won't change entire meaning of verses.

What you are alluding to is wrong.
Linguistic variations should only change pronunciations and words not entire context.

If truly your prophet said this, then he is a liar!
If I come to you and tell you, "Oh you didn't " Go to the bank and meet the bank manager 🤨 then all of a sudden it's written down that I said "go to the bank and meet the cleaner🙄" while another version says "Go and meet the bank manager at the town square🤨".

Do you see where I am getting with this?
Even if, I allow your pathetic excuse of Arabic diversity it shouldn't change the meaning that abrasively!!!

Some versions are so far apart that they beg the question 🤨.

Imagine, in one version it's Allah that his doing the wondering while in another version it's Mohammed's 🙄.

It just goes to show how inexact and illiterate your prophet was!!!

Well, he is not the only one to be blamed but also his companions 🤨.

This is evidence that Allah didn't preserve your Quran word for word🤔.
It's your pathetic cover up statement that fails miserably when tested!!!

Odiegwu!

It took you all of three months to try to understand what I wrote and you still don't?

Perhaps you should first give Quran verses in Arabic that support your argument. Where do we see things equivalent to meet the manager, meet the cleaner or meet the manager at the town square?


What do you understand by the meaning of the word COHESIVE?

Ohyoudidnt:
Odiegwu!

It took you all of three months to try to understand what I wrote and you still don't?

Perhaps you should first give Quran verses in Arabic that support your argument. Where do we see things equivalent to meet the manager, meet the cleaner or meet the manager at the town square?


What do you understand by the meaning of the word COHESIVE?

You totally ignored my point to focus on irregularities.

What you cited up there, is an example of the contextual differences that can be found in different Quranic versions one that goes beyond just linguistic variations!!!

I didn't say literally that you will find meet the bank manager 🤨, maybe as usual you didn't grab the context!!!

Perhaps like your prophet you are waiting for other linguistic variations 🤨.

Contrary to your first paragraph, I decided to reply quotes that I haven't replied to, yours being one of them!!!

Kindly tell us how one revealed message resulted in different Quranic versions. 🤨

How did 'one to many' occur🤔 if truly God(Allah in your case) preserved it word for word👀?

Repeatedly blabbing, do present the exact Quran verses or you hide under ambiguity?

Gabrielshow24:
You totally ignored my point to focus on irregularities.

What you cited up there, is an example of the contextual differences that can be found in different Quranic versions one that goes beyond just linguistic variations!!!

I didn't say literally that you will find meet the bank manager 🤨, maybe as usual you didn't grab the context!!!

Perhaps like your prophet you waiting for other linguistic variations 🤨.

Contrary to your first paragraph, I decided to reply quotes that I haven't replied to, yours being one of them!!!

Kindly tell us how one revealed message resulted in different Quranic versions. 🤨

How did 'one to many' occur🤔 if truly God(Allah in your case) preserved it word for word👀?

MaxInDHouse:
I don't DM strangers so if what you want to know can't be discussed here please log on to jw.org

Good!

I don't need to go to their site since you are a bonafide jw member

As a good orator, muslim convert you are sound to reply

Why did you say jw member are the real disciple of Jesus Christ?

What's makes other Christians fake

Zocalite:
Good!
I don't need to go to their site since you are a bonafide jw member
As a good orator, muslim convert you are sound to reply
Why did you say jw member are the real disciple of Jesus Christ?
What's makes other Christians fake

When God called Abraham He promised that through his lineage all the families of the earth will bless themselves! Genesis 12:1-3

So the reason why God established pure worship through that man is to bless all mankind but then how practical will this be?

God passed the same promise to Isaac so if anyone claims he is a Muslim through the prophethood of Muhammad who is from the lineage of Ishmael such a person has lost out in the blessings God promised through Abraham! Genesis 17:18-21

Then God passed on the same blessing to Jacob the second son of Isaac and from then God began working on how to establish pure worship until the nation of Israel was formed.

So how will all the nations be blessed through Israel?

God said a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah will come and teach people the way of holiness. Isaiah 9:6-7; 35:8

That's why Jesus called himself the WAY, TRUTH and LIFE! John 14:6

Jesus will sacrifice his human life to redeem mankind but not everyone will benefit.
WHY?
Because as the world's most Wonderful Counselor and Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} he will teach faithful people throughout the world how to cohabit peacefully.
It is through his teachings that one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers will emerge as his WITNESSES! Act 1:8
So the purpose of Christianity is to search for friends of peace in anywhere they could be found {Luke 10:6} and teach them they WAY of peace as taught by Christ Jesus {Matthew 28:20} the result will be that all true believers will use what Jesus taught them to resolve their disparities peacefully among themselves divert their resources into production and information materials stop producing buying selling and using weapons and vow never to raise weapons against anyone again! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Only Jehovah's Witnesses Organization is achieving this today! Matthew 5:14-16

Ohyoudidnt:
Repeatedly blabbing, do present the exact Quran verses or you hide under ambiguity?

I am not like your prophet!

Surah 37:12.
In the hafs, Mohammed is the one doing the wondering while in the warsh it's Allah!

There also plethora of other discrepancies!
This is beyond dialectics!

MaxInDHouse:
When God called Abraham He promised that through his lineage all the families of the earth will bless themselves! Genesis 12:1-3

So the reason why God established pure worship through that man is to bless all mankind but then how practical will this be?

God passed the same promise to Isaac so if anyone claims he is a Muslim through the prophethood of Muhammad who is from the lineage of Ishmael such a person has lost out in the blessings God promised through Abraham! Genesis 17:18-21

Then God passed on the same blessing to Jacob the second son of Isaac and from then God began working on how to establish pure worship until the nation of Israel was formed.

So how will all the nations be blessed through Israel?

God said a descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah will come and teach people the way of holiness. Isaiah 9:6-7; 35:8

That's why Jesus called himself the WAY, TRUTH and LIFE! John 14:6

Jesus will sacrifice his human life to redeem mankind but not everyone will benefit.
WHY?
Because as the world's most Wonderful Counselor and Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} he will teach faithful people throughout the world how to cohabit peacefully.
It is through his teachings that one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers will emerge as his WITNESSES! Act 1:8
So the purpose of Christianity is to search for friends of peace in anywhere they could be found {Luke 10:6} and teach them they WAY of peace as taught by Christ Jesus {Matthew 28:20} the result will be that all true believers will use what Jesus taught them to resolve their disparities peacefully among themselves divert their resources into production and information materials stop producing buying selling and using weapons and vow never to raise weapons against anyone again! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Only Jehovah's Witnesses Organization is achieving this today! Matthew 5:14-16

Who told only jw org is the only Christian domination achieving the biblical truth you mentioned above

Jw are different from other Christian domination because they don't believe in rapture and after life judgement as stated in the Bible and the "holy spirit"

I thought that's what you wanted to even argue about

Never you mention that only jw member are the only true Christian again

Who told you that

Just stick to your lane of being a potent Christian orator especially to muslims which you once belong to

Jw of all people making wide claim of real Christian

People that don't relate with other Christian fold, that don't pray, only do unwelcome intruding evangelism

You people are full of yourself

Zocalite:
Never you mention that only jw member are the only true Christian again.

You could have asked questions about what you think JWs got wrong but since you believe different religions with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines are all Christians that's your own portion true Christians are people who have the same line of thought {John 17:22} and whose faith is working {James 2:18-26} only Jehovah's Witnesses organization fits in to that.

Why not mention the name of your own church if you believe there is something worthwhile you people practice?

Gabrielshow24:
I am not like your prophet!

Surah 37:12.
In the hafs, Mohammed is the one doing the wondering while in the warsh it's Allah!

There also plethora of other discrepancies!
This is beyond dialectics!

This comes from someone with zero understanding of arabic language be it classical or the various dialects.

What really does Surah 37:12 refer to in it's entirety? Is it not astonishment at the disbelief and ridicule shown by those who deny the resurrection and mock the message?

In the Hafs version the prophet Muhammad pbuh is astonished and the Warsh version has it as Allah being astonished isn't this what you refer to? The primary cause of this difference are the verbs عَجِبْتَ (‘ajibta) in Hafs and عَجِبْتُ (‘ajibtu) in Warsh. Now let me ask you if you are familiar with native languages of Nigeria? You will know that depending on how it's pronounced a group of letters can mean different things even when spelt the same way. Dialect?

Now your contention is you are surprised (the prophet) and I am surprised (Allah) however both cases refer to some astonishment. Though in the latter case it is rhetorical and a show of disapproval.

Both recitations really capture the sheer disbelief of the Quraysh, and the message stays the same: their refusal to accept the truth is truly mind-boggling (astonishing)

Ohyoudidnt:
This comes from someone with zero understanding of arabic language be it classical or the various dialects.

What really does Surah 37:12 refer to in it's entirety? Is it not astonishment at the disbelief and ridicule shown by those who deny the resurrection and mock the message?

In the Hafs version the prophet Muhammad pbuh is astonished and the Warsh version has it as Allah being astonished isn't this what you refer to? The primary cause of this difference are the verbs عَجِبْتَ (‘ajibta) in Hafs and عَجِبْتُ (‘ajibtu) in Warsh. Now let me ask you if you are familiar with native languages of Nigeria? You will know that depending on how it's pronounced a group of letters can mean different things even when spelt the same way. Dialect?

Now your contention is you are surprised (the prophet) and I am surprised (Allah) however both cases refer to some astonishment. Though in the latter case it is rhetorical and a show of disapproval.

Both recitations really capture the sheer disbelief of the Quraysh, and the message stays the same: their refusal to accept the truth is truly mind-boggling (astonishing)

Even this is a pathetic attempt 🤨 to reconcile logically the two differences!

A fool can see the theme is on "astonishment" but who is really "astonished" is the question you have completely ignored, one you know undermines your point🤨!

Irrespective of whatsoever logical maneuvers you employ to satisfy traditional Muslim narratives, you only buttress my point that your "Quran " is not preserved!

From the visible arc of Uthman's burning of Qurans👀, to the supposed 7 qiraats along with all the Qurans that stems from them🤨 screams man-made!!!

Some of these Qurans have contradictory 'english' meanings🤔; in one version It says 'a thing', in another a totally different 'thing'. although you can argue that the intended meaning are the same🤨 which is in stark contrast to a "revelation revealed to be clear, decisive and explains all things" 👀

Let me know who exactly is astonished? 🤨
If Allah was " astonished " consider the slippery slope that leads to🤨 and if Muhammad was the one astonished then the other version is 'false'!

Gabrielshow24:
Even this is a pathetic attempt 🤨 to reconcile logically the two differences!

A fool can see the theme is on "astonishment" but who is really "astonished" is the question you have completely ignored, one you know undermines your point🤨!

Irrespective of whatsoever logical maneuvers you employ to satisfy traditional Muslim narratives, you only buttress my point that your "Quran " is not preserved!

From the visible arc of Uthman's burning of Qurans👀, to the supposed 7 qiraats along with all the Qurans that stems from them🤨 screams man-made!!!

Some of these Qurans have contradictory 'english' meanings🤔; in one version It says 'a thing', in another a totally different 'thing'. although you can argue that the intended meaning are the same🤨 which is in stark contrast to a "revelation revealed to be clear, decisive and explains all things" 👀

Let me know who exactly is astonished? 🤨
If Allah was " astonished " consider the slippery slope that leads to🤨 and if Muhammad was the one astonished then the other version is 'false'!

Good that you are getting somewhere and realizing how you have no point of argument or observation.

You clearly see that there is surprise in both cases about how people persist in disbelief despite clear evidence otherwise. Whether Allah expresses disapproving astonishment or the prophet pbuh is astonished, it doesn't alter what the astonishment is about.

Can I ask if this was a journal entry like a diary of prophet Muhammad pbuh or words revealed to him?

Do you not see the different recitations being preserved over the time of thereabout 1400 years?

If it wasn't preserved will you see this difference in recitation?


Please you have a brain, use it.

Ohyoudidnt:
Good that you are getting somewhere and realizing how you have no point of argument or observation.

You clearly see that there is surprise in both cases about how people persist in disbelief despite clear evidence otherwise. Whether Allah expresses disapproving astonishment or the prophet pbuh is astonished, it doesn't alter what the astonishment is about.

Can I ask if this was a journal entry like a diary of prophet Muhammad pbuh or words revealed to him?

Do you not see the different recitations being preserved over the time of thereabout 1400 years?

If it wasn't preserved will you see this difference in recitation?


Please you have a brain, use it.

Ah, so now we’re getting somewhere, are we? It’s interesting that you acknowledge the astonishment in both cases, but let’s not gloss over the elephant in the room: the fact that one version has Allah expressing astonishment while the other has Muhammad doing the same. That’s not just a minor detail; it’s a fundamental shift in meaning!

You ask whether this was a journal entry or a revelation. Well, if it were a diary entry, it would certainly explain the inconsistencies! But if these are supposed to be divine revelations, then we have a serious problem. How can we trust the integrity of a text that presents such divergent accounts of the same event?

You mention the preservation of different recitations over 1400 years as evidence of authenticity. But isn’t it curious that these variations lead to such significant differences in meaning? If the Quran were truly preserved word for word, we wouldn’t be having this conversation about who is astonished—Allah or Muhammad.

So, while you encourage me to use my brain, I suggest you do the same. Instead of trying to reconcile these discrepancies, perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that they raise more questions than they answer. After all, if the message can change so drastically between recitations, how can we be sure of its original intent?

Let’s not settle for half-hearted explanations when the stakes are so high. The integrity of the text deserves a more thorough examination than mere assertions of preservation!🤨

Gabrielshow24:
Ah, so now we’re getting somewhere, are we? It’s interesting that you acknowledge the astonishment in both cases, but let’s not gloss over the elephant in the room: the fact that one version has Allah expressing astonishment while the other has Muhammad doing the same. That’s not just a minor detail; it’s a fundamental shift in meaning!

You ask whether this was a journal entry or a revelation. Well, if it were a diary entry, it would certainly explain the inconsistencies! But if these are supposed to be divine revelations, then we have a serious problem. How can we trust the integrity of a text that presents such divergent accounts of the same event?

You mention the preservation of different recitations over 1400 years as evidence of authenticity. But isn’t it curious that these variations lead to such significant differences in meaning? If the Quran were truly preserved word for word, we wouldn’t be having this conversation about who is astonished—Allah or Muhammad.

So, while you encourage me to use my brain, I suggest you do the same. Instead of trying to reconcile these discrepancies, perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that they raise more questions than they answer. After all, if the message can change so drastically between recitations, how can we be sure of its original intent?

Let’s not settle for half-hearted explanations when the stakes are so high. The integrity of the text deserves a more thorough examination than mere assertions of preservation!🤨

Let's agree my brain cannot decipher can you show me the fundamental shift in meaning and it's effect?

Ohyoudidnt:
Let's agree my brain cannot decipher can you show me the fundamental shift in meaning and it's effect?

Allah or Muhammad?🤨

Gabrielshow24:
Allah or Muhammad?🤨

And how is this fundamentally a problem?

Ohyoudidnt:
And how is this fundamentally a problem?

Did you bother to consider the slippery slope of both? 🤨

I leave that to you as an assignment, that should help you 'decipher' what the problem is 🤨!

Gabrielshow24:
Did you bother to consider the slippery slope of both? 🤨

I leave that you as an assignment, that should help you 'decipher' what the problem is 🤨!

Very lame as expected. You have argued without full thought and got stuck with the dim half thought logic. It's been explained the astonishment/disapproval at disbelief and you are pointing at a flaw you cannot explain.


What is the problem that you cannot explain?

Ohyoudidnt:
Very lame as expected. You have argued without full thought and got stuck with the dim half thought logic. It's been explained the astonishment/disapproval at disbelief and you are pointing at a flaw you cannot explain.


What is the problem that you cannot explain?

That's a silly logical reconciliation.
I have answered this rhetoric earlier.

Who is astonished, Muhammad or Allah?
If Allah was astonished then definitely he is not all-knowing!
If it was Muhammad then the other version is false!

Don't you use your brain at all?🤦🏾‍♂️
Imagine in 3953 and men stumble upon two newsletters, one says Ronaldo won 2015 balloon d'or another says Messi🤨.

It is very evident that 'someone' won the ballon d'or but who won it?🤨
A question you and your scholars can never answer without demolishing your 'foolish' traditional narratives!

Gabrielshow24:
That's a silly logical reconciliation.
I have answered this rhetoric earlier.

Who is astonished, Muhammad or Allah?
If Allah was astonished then definitely he is not all-knowing!
If it was Muhammad then the other version is false!

Don't you use your brain at all?🤦🏾‍♂️
Imagine in 3953 and men stumble upon two newsletters, one says Ronaldo won 2015 balloon d'or another says Messi🤨.

It is very evident that 'someone' won the ballon d'or but who won it?🤨
A question you and your scholars can never answer without demolishing your 'foolish' traditional narratives!

I asked you a question before which you threw more jibe at than answer. Is the Quran a diary of the prophet Muhammad pbuh?

Of the different Qiraat, how many say the same Warsh version says and how many say the same as Hafs?

Then particularly what is meant in either version?

Don't hide in analogy, answer directly, straightforward.

Ohyoudidnt:
I asked you a question before which you threw more jibe at than answer. Is the Quran a diary of the prophet Muhammad pbuh?

Of the different Qiraat, how many say the same Warsh version says and how many say the same as Hafs?

Then particularly what is meant in either version?

Don't hide in analogy, answer directly, straightforward.

I have answered your first question, you can kindly go revise what I have said about it!

What's with you and evasion? You intentionally do not want to answer my direct question knowing fully well its logical implications to your stance!
Also, what does other divergent versions have to do with my question? The other versions will only be weapons in my arsenal against your pathetic Islamic traditional narratives!

The English translation is self explanatory 🙃 only an intellectually dishonest dunce will try to reconcile the differences between Muhammad wonders and Allah wonders trying to posit that they are the same!!!

Once again, I ask you who is it? Mohammed or Allah!

Gabrielshow24:
I have answered your first question, you can kindly go revise what I have said about it!

What's with you and evasion? You intentionally do not want to answer my direct question knowing fully well its logical implications to your stance!
Also, what does other divergent versions have to do with my question? The other versions will only be weapons in my arsenal against your pathetic Islamic traditional narratives!

The English translation is self explanatory 🙃 only an intellectually dishonest dunce will try to reconcile the differences between Muhammad wonders and Allah wonders trying to posit that they are the same!!!

Once again, I ask you who is it? Mohammed or Allah!

So in all your rambling you don't know?

Very shameful.

Ohyoudidnt:
So in all your rambling you don't know?

Very shameful.

The Quran is to be shamed not me, after all it claims to explain all things in detail!😂😂😂
Your pathetic prophet is also to be shamed for lacking proper wisdom to differentiate between authentic Jewish narratives and apocryphal stories! If not why will a sane person not conclusively say that it was one or other that wondered but instead relies on the simple fact that wondering is the theme of the message!😂😂😂

Very shameful indeed!😂😂😂

Stupid reply from a stupid indoctrinated Muslim! When you are ready to face your shame, you know where to find me but I have left it as a question to all you hypocrites, who actually wondered! 🤨

Gabrielshow24:
The Quran is to be shamed not me, after all it claims to explain all things in detail!😂😂😂
Your pathetic prophet is also to be shamed for lacking proper wisdom to differentiate between authentic Jewish narratives and apocryphal stories! If not why will a sane person not conclusively say that it was one or other that wondered but instead relies on the simple fact that wondering is the theme of the message!😂😂😂

Very shameful indeed!😂😂😂

Stupid reply from a stupid indoctrinated Muslim! When you are ready to face your shame, you know where to find me but I have left it as a question to all you hypocrites, who actually wondered! 🤨

Aha! He acknowledges he is incapable of understanding.

We are getting somewhere finally.

When you do not understand how then can you castigate?

Ohyoudidnt:
Aha! He acknowledges he is incapable of understanding.

We are getting somewhere finally.

When you do not understand how then can you castigate?

Coming from a sane person positing that "Ronaldo wonders" and "Messi wonders" are the same😂😂😂

Foolishness is indeed bliss!

Gabrielshow24:
Coming from a sane person positing that "Ronaldo wonders" and "Messi wonders" are the same😂😂😂

Foolishness is indeed bliss!

Indeed he is ashamed to say.

How can you liken Ronaldo and Messi to this?

Do they not compete in a sport against each other and contest superiority or their fans do this for them?

Please 'wise' one how does this relate to this discussion? Who sends the other Messi or Ronaldo?

Ohyoudidnt:
Indeed he is ashamed to say.

How can you liken Ronaldo and Messi to this?

Do they not compete in a sport against each other and contest superiority or their fans do this for them?

Please 'wise' one how does this relate to this discussion? Who sends the other Messi or Ronaldo?

Foolish one, can't you see how vague your allusions are? Of what use is the "wondering" if the subject of it is not properly known! 🤨. It's just a foolish attempt to make yourself sleep at night, given the plethora of inconsistencies within your Quran!

With all due respect, I would have written a better Quran than this one.😂😂😂
If you have anything useful to say, kindly tell the world who wondered🤔—Oh, you can't 😂😂😂

Gabrielshow24:
Foolish one, can't you see how vague your allusions are? Of what use is the "wondering" if the subject of it is not properly known! 🤨. It's just a foolish attempt to make yourself sleep at night, given the plethora of inconsistencies within your Quran!

With all due respect, I would have written a better Quran than this one.😂😂😂
If you have anything useful to say, kindly tell the world who wondered🤔—Oh, you can't 😂😂😂

Do yourself a favour and place pictures of the full arabic text of the warsh and hafs text of this verse not just the verb here let me show you something.

Gabrielshow24:
I am not like your prophet!

Surah 37:12.
In the hafs, Mohammed is the one doing the wondering while in the warsh it's Allah!

There also plethora of other discrepancies!
This is beyond dialectics!

Didn't I answer this before?

You would have written but have not been able to write anything except what you copy from others.