₦airaland Forum

Thankgod89:
You're right, it wasn’t murder or theft in the usual sense. It was disobedience. But not just breaking a random rule, it was a rupture in relationship. God gave humans everything, life, freedom, purpose, joy and one boundary to honor His authority and trust. Eating the fruit wasn’t about snacking; it was about saying, “I want to decide what’s right and wrong without You.” It was a declaration of independence from the very Source of life.

The consequence of separating from God isn’t just punishment, it’s death, because God is life. If I unplug a lamp, it doesn’t get punished—it just goes dark. Sin is unplugging from the Source, and darkness naturally follows. It’s not about God being offended over a technicality. It’s about the human race stepping out of harmony with the Creator and everything else unraveling from there.

Could God have just forgiven them? Absolutely. But forgiveness, even for God, isn’t ignoring the reality of damage. True forgiveness costs something emotionally, relationally, even spiritually. And that cost is what Jesus eventually bore. But even in the garden, God didn’t sever ties. He went looking for them. He clothed them. He promised a future Redeemer (Genesis 3:15). Discipline came, yes but not abandonment. It was a fracture, not a final goodbye.

Now about the analogy of parenting, it’s a good one. We don’t disown toddlers for breaking plates, true. But we do teach them that choices have consequences. And if that child one day grows up and says, “I don’t want your rules, your values, or your love, I’ll live how I want,” that’s not just a broken plate. That’s a broken relationship. That’s the tragedy of sin and it’s not that God won’t forgive, it’s that people can choose to reject Him.

I believe in the Holy Bible, guided by the help of the Holy Spirit. I don’t compare my faith with Islam or any other belief system. Someone once asked you question from Hebrews 11:3:
“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

From there, the conversation just kept unfolding…

Christianity isn’t filled with heavy doctrines, the message is actually clear. The problem isn’t with the faith, but with how it’s often misunderstood. As Jesus said in John 5:39:
“Search the Scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.”
The heart of it all is Christ. If you truly seek Him through the Word, the message becomes clearer.

Kobojunkie:
1. The bulk of what you claim and seem to believe comes not from The Bible but from the many doctrines compiled by the religion of Christianity, a religion whose only connection is. That is what I have been trying to get you to see here. Yes, there was a man called Jesus Christ who happened to be an Israelite(of the Jewish subset), but everything else you claimed in your OP and insist on after that is not biblical but sourced from the various interpretations that belong instead to the religion of Christianity — religious gobbledegook.

2. Yes!

3. The framework of the Christian faith is the same as arguing from a religious standpoint. This is because the doctrines that comprise the religion of Christianity— its over 46000 different denominations/interpretations included— are 99.99999% removed from the actual content of the Bible —Israelite Scripture. Many of the ideas spewed so far by those who argue from within the religion have nothing to do with the original messages intended by the authors of the individual books, let alone the YHWH of Israel or Jesus Christ of Israel, His Son.

Thankgod89:
You're right, it wasn’t murder or theft in the usual sense. It was disobedience. But not just breaking a random rule, it was a rupture in relationship. God gave humans everything, life, freedom, purpose, joy and one boundary to honor His authority and trust. Eating the fruit wasn’t about snacking; it was about saying, “I want to decide what’s right and wrong without You.” It was a declaration of independence from the very Source of life.

The consequence of separating from God isn’t just punishment, it’s death, because God is life. If I unplug a lamp, it doesn’t get punished—it just goes dark. Sin is unplugging from the Source, and darkness naturally follows. It’s not about God being offended over a technicality. It’s about the human race stepping out of harmony with the Creator and everything else unraveling from there.

Could God have just forgiven them? Absolutely. But forgiveness, even for God, isn’t ignoring the reality of damage. True forgiveness costs something emotionally, relationally, even spiritually. And that cost is what Jesus eventually bore. But even in the garden, God didn’t sever ties. He went looking for them. He clothed them. He promised a future Redeemer (Genesis 3:15). Discipline came, yes but not abandonment. It was a fracture, not a final goodbye.

Now about the analogy of parenting, it’s a good one. We don’t disown toddlers for breaking plates, true. But we do teach them that choices have consequences. And if that child one day grows up and says, “I don’t want your rules, your values, or your love, I’ll live how I want,” that’s not just a broken plate. That’s a broken relationship. That’s the tragedy of sin and it’s not that God won’t forgive, it’s that people can choose to reject Him.

I believe in the Holy Bible, guided by the help of the Holy Spirit. I don’t compare my faith with Islam or any other belief system. Someone once asked you question from Hebrews 11:3:
“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

From there, the conversation just kept unfolding…

Christianity isn’t filled with heavy doctrines, the message is actually clear. The problem isn’t with the faith, but with how it’s often misunderstood. As Jesus said in John 5:39:
“Search the Scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.”
The heart of it all is Christ. If you truly seek Him through the Word, the message becomes clearer.

Truthseeker10:
Does the Bible teach that God will burn people forever in Hell?

Matthew 13
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

DemonSlayer:
➜It's much clearer now, thanks. I'm curious, what's the extent of the Bible that you consider "biblical"—pure, unadulterated Scripture? Aren't the so-called "religious gobbledegook" (funny choice of words there ) derived from scriptures?
➜In this case, the atonement of sin through the death of Jesus.
➜ Noted! What does " " mean?
➜Noting the incredibly diverse interpretations and the myriads of denominations is a very good point, Kobo! Thanks for pointing that out. I probably took that for granted because it seems in Nigeria, there's a mainstream Christianity that agrees on some key doctrines, including the one we're exploring in this thread.
➜ I'm curious, though, how did you arrive at the 99.99999% deviation of "religious gobbledegook" from the Bible? I get your point, but that's an extreme exaggeration to the point of being unreasonable.
➜ Lastly, what stance are you arguing from; does it have a name?

DemonSlayer:
Matthew 13
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Kobojunkie:
1. Nope!

2. Again, the answer is an emphatic No! Jesus Christ of Israel's claim, as recorded in Israelites-only Scripture, is that only individuals born from their mother's womb of the bloodline of Jacob require this supposed atonement of sins and could help obtain it by way of the Covenant, which is the Kingdom of God. The same Jesus Christ of Israel went to state that those who were not born of that bloodline had no capacity to handle that which is Holy... His Covenant.. and hence warned His followers to avoid them where it concerns the details of the Covenant. This all directly conflicts with the religious narratives, all of which mostly insist that all humans require atonement and all qualify for Jesus Christ of Israel's death.

3. thinking emoticon ➜🤔

4. The existence of mainstream Christianity in Nigeria is a perception, though not a reality. You only need to directly interact with some of the members from the many different Christian organizations to realize that they do not consider themselves the same. The competition between the various sects is palpable in some communities. Within the same organization/denomination(complete overarching interpretation of scriptures), you are bound to find several other mini-denominations with their own additional ideas regarding the core interpretations fed to them from the religion's overlord higher up on the organizational hierarchy. RCCG and Deeper Life are two particular organizations/denominations that I am aware operate in this manner. Mainstream Christianity does not exist in Nigeria as far as I know.

4. It sounds extreme, but if you reason it clearly, you will find it isn't.

⚉ Can a book written in plaintext — not alien language or by aliens — really have over 46,000 different interpretations?
⚉ Does any book written by human authors in human language for the direct consumption of humans, no formal education required, require interpreting?
⚉ If the contextual content of a book— author's message — points to logic A, but the reader's particular forced interpretation points away from logic A, do we conclude that the author was wrong and the reader is instead correct?

The God of the Book took on the title God of Israel alone, declaring Israel His only inheritance in the land of men — Humans. Jesus Christ of Israel came declaring His Father, YHWH, God of Israel, sent Him only to the Lost Sheep of Israel(He never went on this declaration). All of the prophets of Israel before and after Jesus Christ of Israel were Israelites. But somehow Religion of Christianity(Islam as well) would have us believe that right after the Roman war against the Jews which lead to complete decimation of Jerusalem, the exile of the Jewish Population from much of the Roman Empire, and the destruction of the nation of Judah by the Romans during the first Century AD, the Romans — non-Israelites — took over the reigns and became the chosen people of this very same God of Israel and His Son, Jesus Christ of Israel.

5. Pointing out the bullsheet that is the religion of Christianity(Islam included).

Truthseeker10:
In the above scriptures that you've quote
1)what part of human burn in hell fire?
2)where will people burn forever, hell fire or lake of fire?

DemonSlayer:
What do you mean what part?

Hell fire? Lake of fire? What's the difference, why are we splitting hairs? Fire na fire.

Kobojunkie:
1. Nope!

2. Again, the answer is an emphatic No! Jesus Christ of Israel's claim, as recorded in Israelites-only Scripture, is that only individuals born from their mother's womb of the bloodline of Jacob require this supposed atonement of sins and could help obtain it by way of the Covenant, which is the Kingdom of God. The same Jesus Christ of Israel went to state that those who were not born of that bloodline had no capacity to handle that which is Holy... His Covenant.. and hence warned His followers to avoid them where it concerns the details of the Covenant. This all directly conflicts with the religious narratives, all of which mostly insist that all humans require atonement and all qualify for Jesus Christ of Israel's death.

3. thinking emoticon ➜🤔

4. The existence of mainstream Christianity in Nigeria is a perception, though not a reality. You only need to directly interact with some of the members from the many different Christian organizations to realize that they do not consider themselves the same. The competition between the various sects is palpable in some communities. Within the same organization/denomination(complete overarching interpretation of scriptures), you are bound to find several other mini-denominations with their own additional ideas regarding the core interpretations fed to them from the religion's overlord higher up on the organizational hierarchy. RCCG and Deeper Life are two particular organizations/denominations that I am aware operate in this manner. Mainstream Christianity does not exist in Nigeria as far as I know.

4. It sounds extreme, but if you reason it clearly, you will find it isn't.
⚉ Can a book written in plaintext — not alien language or by aliens — really have over 46,000 different interpretations?
⚉ Does any book written by human authors in human language for the direct consumption of humans, no formal education required, require interpreting?
⚉ If the contextual content of a book— author's message — points to logic A, but the reader's particular forced interpretation points away from logic A, do we conclude that the author was wrong and the reader is instead correct?

The God of the Book took on the title God of Israel alone, declaring Israel His only inheritance in the land of men — Humans. Jesus Christ of Israel came declaring His Father, YHWH, God of Israel, sent Him only to the Lost Sheep of Israel(He never went on this declaration). All of the prophets of Israel before and after Jesus Christ of Israel were Israelites. But somehow Religion of Christianity(Islam as well) would have us believe that right after the Roman war against the Jews which lead to complete decimation of Jerusalem, the exile of the Jewish Population from much of the Roman Empire, and the destruction of the nation of Judah by the Romans during the first Century AD, the Romans — non-Israelites — took over the reigns and became the chosen people of this very same God of Israel and His Son, Jesus Christ of Israel.

DemonSlayer:
➜Hmmm, this is deep oo. Which one is Israelites-only Scripture? Do you mean the Old Testament or something else? I'm familiar with Jesus' mission to the House of Israel, but I'm also aware that he didn't strictly limit his ministry to this group. He was hanging out with all sorts of people to the point where the Pharisees were accusing him of associating with the gentiles.
➜I actually have a problem with this notion of God playing favourites.
➜ I feel it's Jewish propaganda.
➜ Good thing I asked! I thought it's an exasperated, condescending sigh, like "just I can't with these deluded morons, high on their religious gobbledegook!" Thinking is good.
➜ You're right to a very large extent. I've actually lived that experience since I've done a fair amount of exploring different denominations. I still maintain that while there's a lot of disagreement about several fringe doctrines, for the most part, the majority of denominations in Nigeria, at the most fundamental level, agree that Jesus died to grant believers eternal life.
➜ Very solid points, I've grappled with these myself but 99% gobbledegook is still too wild!
➜ While they've evolved over time, the abrahimic religions share the same root, the Israelite Scripture.
➜ If Christianity, Islam, etc are full of it (BS), what's the alternative?

Kobojunkie:
1. All the people that Jesus Christ was reported to have hung out with— Pharisees, sinners, Gentiles, were Israelites...— where all flesh and blood Israelites. I am aware that Christianity's particular interpretation of the term Gentile pointed to non-Israelites, but the fact is, Israelite Scripture does not record them as such. Couple this with the fact that Jesus Christ of Israel did not mince words when He warned His followers against giving that which is Holy to the non-Israelites, aka the dogs. Your supposed recollection of Jesus Christ of Israel having some, what you call ministry outside of the bloodline of Israel was all lies cooked up and fed to you by your religious overlords, as there is no record of any such in Israelite Scripture.

2. The same YHWH who in Exodus formerly took on the title of God of Israel is recorded to have said in that book that He would show favor to whomever He wishes to. Are you insinuating that you do not think He has the right to decide for himself as He chooses?

3. You think it is a Jewish agenda that the entire book was authored by Israelites, and the God in question is called the God of Israel? Is it also a Jewish agenda that the Greek Gods are gods of the Greeks alone?

4.

5. The overarching division that pervades the many sects cannot be reasonably ignored, though.

6. I suspect you still hold out some hope that religion can hold some solution for you is why you reject the evidence right before you, though. It is the same reason why over 5 billion people on the planet, without tangible evidence, continue to hold tight to religion, against logic.

7. None of their roots directly connect with the Laws and teachings of the God of Israel—YHWH—, His Prophets, or to Jesus Christ of Israel, though. The only religion which we learn of its existence in the book is Judaism, which was divided into the sects of the Pharisees and Sadducees at one point. But, we also learn that it was disavowed from before its beginning by the God of Israel, and also by Jesus Christ of Israel, who continued to pronounce curses on all those who would go the way of religion rather than abide concretely by the Law of God.

8. Why religion? Why give men the power to manipulate your life in the first place? That is pretty much what Religion is about at its core.

DemonSlayer:
I get you, even if I don't agree that faith is a prerequisite for understanding. There are many books and many stories, we have the freedom to disagree with the ideas they present, it's often never enough to quote one book to shut up dissenting views.

If guess it’s easier to use reason to dismantle the flaws in other points of view, but when it comes to our own, faith tends to step in as a shield for the incomprehensible. In fact, through faith, you can believe anything—often at the expense of reason—leaving room for gullibility to take root.