₦airaland Forum

QuinQ:
And what most people don't notice is the present tense used by Jesus HIMSELF: "Before Abraham I AM"

What does "I AM" mean?

QuinQ:
Suddenly you no longer pay attention to tense used. HE SAID "I AM" NOT "I WAS"!!! Same "I am" God told Moses was His name. Same great "I Am"!

In the context of the verse that you quoted, was Jesus identity the issue or the length of his existence?

QuinQ:
So it's no more because of coming from heaven, it is now because of Abraham!😅
But they themselves said why they wanted to stone him to death in John 10 - "because you, being a man, make yourself God."
You still haven't answered the question: was Moses also around before Abraham?😆
In the whole history of the Jews who else claimed to be around before their forefathers, or claimed oneness with God?

Does Jesus claiming oneness with God meant that he was God almighty?

Truthseeker10:
Do you agree with the diagram below?

No

Truthseeker10:
What does "I AM" mean?

To biblical Jews, that's God's name

Truthseeker10:
In the context of the verse that you quoted, was Jesus identity the issue or the length of his existence?

Both

Truthseeker10:
Does Jesus claiming oneness with God meant that he was God almighty?

He was/is divine (not like Moses or any others). That's all we humans know. We lack the capacity to know much more than that

Truthseeker10:
If the Word was God Almighty, is he no longer God almighty?

I normally don’t get into debates about whether Christ is God or not. I believe everyone should call Him who they believe He is—or as the Spirit reveals Him to them. However, I felt it was important to respond to MaxInDHouse, who referred to Jesus merely as a prophet.

But I will reply to you concerning whether He is God or not.

The Word was God Almighty—and still is. When John 1:1 says, “the Word was God,” it doesn’t mean He used to be God and then stopped. It affirms the eternal and divine nature of the Word from the very beginning.

When the Word became flesh (John 1:14), He didn’t lose His divinity—He added humanity to Himself. As Philippians 2:6–7 says:

“Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to His own advantage; rather, He made Himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.”

So, the incarnation wasn’t subtraction—it was addition. The eternal Son of God became fully human without ceasing to be fully God. That’s why He could say in John 8:58, “Before Abraham was, I AM,” applying to Himself the divine name.

Thankgod89:
I normally don’t get into debates about whether Christ is God or not. I believe everyone should call Him who they believe He is—or as the Spirit reveals Him to them. However, I felt it was important to respond to MaxInDHouse, who referred to Jesus merely as a prophet.

But I will reply to you concerning whether He is God or not.

The Word was God Almighty—and still is. When John 1:1 says, “the Word was God,” it doesn’t mean He used to be God and then stopped. It affirms the eternal and divine nature of the Word from the very beginning.

When the Word became flesh (John 1:14), He didn’t lose His divinity—He added humanity to Himself. As Philippians 2:6–7 says:

“Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to His own advantage; rather, He made Himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.”

So, the incarnation wasn’t subtraction—it was addition. The eternal Son of God became fully human without ceasing to be fully God. That’s why He could say in John 8:58, “Before Abraham was, I AM,” applying to Himself the divine name.

Explain John 14:28 in connection with the bolded above.

QuinQ:
He was/is divine (not like Moses or any others). That's all we humans know. We lack the capacity to know much more than that

by saying divine, do you mean he was the Almighty God?

QuinQ:
Both

So when Jesus said "I am", was he talking of his length of existence or identity?

QuinQ:
To biblical Jews, that's God's name

is "I am" the same as "JHVH"?

QuinQ:
No

What is wrong with the diagram?

Truthseeker10:
by saying divine, do you mean he was the Almighty God?

We know he is God. We know he is not like Moses and the rest. We lack the capacity to fully know the nature of God

Truthseeker10:
So when Jesus said "I am", was he talking of his length of existence or identity?

I was not there. People who were there and heard him directly and saw his expressions thought he was implying he was God

Truthseeker10:
is "I am" the same as "JHVH"?

To biblical Jews whose entire existence revolved around these things, "I Am" is the name of God

Truthseeker10:
What is wrong with the diagram?

God cannot be diagramed by man. We lack the capacity to fully know the nature of God

Truthseeker10:
So the father is greater than Jesus?

Both can be addressed as God. But the relationship between them is such that the father is the head of the union.

See the word, God as a form of existence. God, angels, humans, animals are different forms in which life exists.

For animals, we figuratively call lion king of the jungle, it doesn't mean other animals are no longer animals.

We call Michael archangel, that doesn't mean Gabriel and the rest angels are no more angels

For humans, you call your biological dad father, that doesn't mean you too don't exist in the human form. It doesn't make you less human

For the God form of existence, we call him father, that doesn't mean mean Jesus is not existing in the form of God

You find it hard to understand because you have an underlying believe that God is one person - not a state of existence.

While on earth, Jesus described himself as "the only begotten son of God". That means he was the only person to exist in human form and still exist in thesame "state of existence" with the father. He was the only person who was born human and still possess divinity.

Ruke1991:
Both can be addressed as God. But the relationship between them is such that the father is the head of the union.

See the word, God as a form of existence. God, angels, humans, animals are different forms in which life exists.

For animals, we figuratively call lion king of the jungle, it doesn't mean other animals are no longer animals.

We call Michael archangel, that doesn't mean Gabriel and the rest angels are no more angels

For humans, you call your biological dad father, that doesn't mean you too don't exist in the human form. It doesn't make you less human

For the God form of existence, we call him father, that doesn't mean mean Jesus is not existing in the form of God

You find it hard to understand because you have an underlying believe that God is one person - not a state of existence.

While on earth, Jesus described himself as "the only begotten son of God". That means he was the only person to exist in human form and still exist in thesame "state of existence" with the father. He was the only person who was born human and still possess divinity.

According to your explanation, are you saying that both Jesus and the Father are God but the father is greater than Jesus?

QuinQ:
God cannot be diagramed by man. We lack the capacity to fully know the nature of God

Lol...so is there an explanation that you can give me now that will counter the diagram and that will fully explain the nature of God? If no....is your idea about God not as faulty as the diagram since you cannot explain the full nature of God?

QuinQ:
To biblical Jews whose entire existence revolved around these things, "I Am" is the name of God

😂😂So "I am" is not the same as "JHVH". Are you saying that biblical Jews did not take "JHVH" as the name of God?

QuinQ:
I was not there. People who were there and heard him directly and saw his expressions thought he was implying he was God

So what made you think that their implications were right even when Jesus never said he was equal with God?

QuinQ:
We know he is God. We know he is not like Moses and the rest. We lack the capacity to fully know the nature of God

So you don't know if Jesus is the Almighty God?😂

Truthseeker10:
Explain John 14:28 in connection with the bolded above.

When Jesus says, “The Father is greater than I,” He is speaking as the incarnate Son, who willingly humbled Himself and took on human flesh (Philippians 2:6–7). In His humanity, He voluntarily submitted to the Father’s will and accepted a lower position for the sake of our salvation.

So, the Father is “greater” in function or role during the incarnation, not in essence. Jesus still retained full divinity but operated in a position of submission.

In short, Jesus wasn’t denying His divinity—He was preparing the disciples for His departure. He emphasized the greatness of the Father to comfort them, showing that His going away was part of a larger divine plan. If the Father was greater in position, then His return to the Father was not a loss but a completion of His mission.

QuinQ:
No

you're oneness? You believe Jesus is God our Father?

Thankgod89:
When Jesus says, “The Father is greater than I,” He is speaking as the incarnate Son, who willingly humbled Himself and took on human flesh (Philippians 2:6–7). In His humanity, He voluntarily submitted to the Father’s will and accepted a lower position for the sake of our salvation.

So, the Father is “greater” in function or role during the incarnation, not in essence. Jesus still retained full divinity but operated in a position of submission.

In short, Jesus wasn’t denying His divinity—He was preparing the disciples for His departure. He emphasized the greatness of the Father to comfort them, showing that His going away was part of a larger divine plan. If the Father was greater in position, then His return to the Father was not a loss but a completion of His mission.

are you saying that now Jesus is equal or greater than the Father?
Are you saying that Jesus is no more in the flesh?
Are you saying that the Father's role now is lesser?

Thankgod89:
When Jesus says, “The Father is greater than I,” He is speaking as the incarnate Son, who willingly humbled Himself and took on human flesh (Philippians 2:6–7). In His humanity, He voluntarily submitted to the Father’s will and accepted a lower position for the sake of our salvation.

So, the Father is “greater” in function or role during the incarnation, not in essence. Jesus still retained full divinity but operated in a position of submission.

In short, Jesus wasn’t denying His divinity—He was preparing the disciples for His departure. He emphasized the greatness of the Father to comfort them, showing that His going away was part of a larger divine plan. If the Father was greater in position, then His return to the Father was not a loss but a completion of His mission.

So in what function precisely was the father greater than Jesus?
In what way was Jesus still equal to the father in essence?

QuinQ:
I was not there. People who were there and heard him directly and saw his expressions thought he was implying he was God

and yet Jesus corrected them or are you saying he later lied and deceived them because he was afraid of being killed?

Truthseeker10:
So in what function precisely was the father greater than Jesus?
In what way was Jesus still equal to the father in essence?

A.) Functionally, the Father was greater than Jesus in the context of the incarnation, because Jesus had taken on a role of submission and servanthood as part of His mission on earth.

Jesus said repeatedly that He came to do the will of the Father (John 6:38), not His own. He obeyed, prayed to, and was sent by the Father.

Incarnational Humility, Philippians 2:6–8 explains that Jesus, though equal with God, “made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant” and “humbled Himself.”

B.) In essence (nature), Jesus remained fully and eternally God, equal with the Father in every divine attribute:

John 1:1 – “The Word was God.”

Colossians 2:9 – “In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.”

Hebrews 1:3 – “He is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.”

John 10:30 – “I and the Father are one.”

Truthseeker10:
Lol...so is there an explanation that you can give me now that will counter the diagram and that will fully explain the nature of God? If no....is your idea about God not as faulty as the diagram since you cannot explain the full nature of God?

I know there is only one God. I know Jesus is God. And I know the Father is also God

Truthseeker10:
😂😂So "I am" is not the same as "JHVH". Are you saying that biblical Jews did not take "JHVH" as the name of God?

To them God had several names. One of them was "I Am"