₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
What they thought nah!

You believe Jesus existed before Adam (just like he told the Jews) and therefore came from heaven, and believing that, here's what you wrote:

"So whoever comes from heaven must be one of those living there either God or angel and in this case Jesus didn't claim he was an angel rather God's Son which makes him divine so to speak."

MaxInDHouse:
Na wah for them o, i should believe those who accused and killed Jesus based on false accusations!

But you believe Jesus said he was one with God, and that once you've seen him you've seen God. Who else has said anything close to that in Jewish history, and how far is that from saying he's same as God?

QuinQ:
Jesus is God. I don't know how anybody can be arguing that. If not, tell us what he is

A myth...has anybody considered that?

sonmvayina:
A myth...has anybody considered that?

Patrick Star gladly honors us with his presence 😁.

sonmvayina:
A myth...has anybody considered that?

OK, are you saying the OT is a myth, all the prophecies about the comming Messiah a myth, his rejection by the Jews a myth, his crucifixion a myth, persecution of Christians by Rome a myth, conversion of many Romans to Christianity a myth, Edict of Milan that decriminalize Christianity a myth, Nicene conference a myth? Where exactly does this your myth start and end?

QuinQ:
OK, are you saying the OT is a myth, all the prophecies about the comming Messiah a myth, his rejection by the Jews a myth, his crucifixion a myth, persecution of Christians by Rome a myth, conversion of many Romans to Christianity a myth, Edict of Milan that decriminalize Christianity a myth, Nicene conference a myth? Where exactly does this your myth start and end?

The Messiah the Jewish prophet spoke about is a man from the line of David through Solomon his son. Not a demi god. So the the prophecy was not talking about Jesus. The Messiah is coming to rule. He will be crowned king and be anointed with a special oil as part of his coronation . He is not coming to die for sins. God already gave them the solution to the problem of sin. Jesus was never king. The two contradictory genealogies in Mathew and Luke can never produce a Messiah.
Jesus was a Roman Catholic invention QED.

QuinQ:
OK, are you saying the OT is a myth, all the prophecies about the comming Messiah a myth, his rejection by the Jews a myth, his crucifixion a myth, persecution of Christians by Rome a myth, conversion of many Romans to Christianity a myth, Edict of Milan that decriminalize Christianity a myth, Nicene conference a myth? Where exactly does this your myth start and end?

All these stuff are what Christianity is saying. They are not what the Jews imply when they talk about a Messiah.
There is no second coming arrangements in the Tanakh. Christianity is rebranded paganism nothing more. The worship of Lucifer and her son(mother and child) nothing more.
God hates human sacrifice, he even hates animal sacrifice....what he wants us to sacrifice is our ego....confess and forsake our sins, he would forgive. When he sent Jonah to Nineveh, they repented, he forgave them. No animal sacrifice. That is sufficient for God.

QuinQ:
You believe Jesus existed before Adam (just like he told the Jews) and therefore came from heaven, and believing that, here's what you wrote:

"So whoever comes from heaven must be one of those living there either God or angel and in this case Jesus didn't claim he was an angel rather God's Son which makes him divine so to speak."

The 'sheepish narrative' they have cannot clearly define the concept "God" hence they have a problem with Jesus being God🤕. Which makes them conflate identity with nature🤔.

The narrative JW have is that Christ is an angel, noticeably Michael 🤔; now they run into problems very quickly! Without even using scriptures just basic logic they have problems reconciling the preeminence of Christ over the rest(angels). A certain elder from them decided to create the first set theory 👀(Primus conventus) which states that these 'archangels' were the first set of angels to interact with God👀, which also runs into another problem because it assumes that Angels were not made at the same time or they were made in batches😀—A lovely fallacious reconciliation with the scripture, ' all things were made by Jesus' yet this theory falls flat🤕, very flat, Indeed! Upon deeper analysis.

Also, the law of non-contradiction 😂 doesn't favor their narratives 🤧. The character of Jesus on earth conflicts greatly with the warlike dispositions of Michael 👀— which will warrant men to call Jesus an hypocrite for encouraging peace🤔 while he didn't 'turn the left cheek' in heaven👀.

This also squashes their absolute statement of "No true christian will take up arms". In all, it reduces their conclusion to a mere false Equivocation! You could also say, 'Why didn't they say Jesus is a winnowers fan because he was written coming with one?'😁 As a subtle reply to their 'coming with the voice of an Archangel' rhetoric🤧 and to finish it off, you can totally squash their allusions by using the extreme of their argument —seeing it is centred on 'Jesus being an angel'—to conclude that God, himself, is a messenger of himself😂 which they can never have a rebuttal for. Any response from them will be met with simple questions and they will be forced to either evade or avoid these questions, totally!

All in all without typing too much because of this despot of a bot😂. You get the gist.

Jesus is not God and never was. God is the universal divine consciousness....not a Jewish man up in the sky....God is within us.

After God has finished creating the earth, he then created humans (man and woman) as a means for God to experience his creation
Man is God having a human experience...
When he expires...the body goes to earth and the spirit returns to God..(see Ecclesiastics 12:7)

sonmvayina:
Jesus is not God and never was. God is the universal divine consciousness....not a Jewish man up in the sky....God is within us.

After God has finished creating the earth, he then created humans (man and woman) as a means for God to experience his creation
Man is God having a human experience...
When he expires...the body goes to earth and the spirit returns to God..(see Ecclesiastics 12:7)

Indeed, he didn't experience it while creating it. He needed to fully take on the form of humans. Infact, your God is responsible for the state of the world. He is just experiencing Hardship by using himself(balablu) in high places to deprive himself(the masses) of basic amenities in low places🤧. What a God? The God that continues to fail his own purpose, allowing himself to be killed by himself 😂😂😂, coming back everytime to repeat the cycle!

To what end, Haba! Your God has personality disorder 😵‍💫. Probably, not, he is just using himself(me) to talk to himself(you) that he has personality disorder 😂😂😂.

Truthseeker10:
Did Jesus ever claim that his human will was subjected to his own divine will?

I’ve mentioned before that I’m not a fan of debating whether Christ is God or not. I only chose to engage in this discussion because I had some free time. But now, I’m stepping away from it. You’re free to call Jesus whoever He is to you.
Thanks.

Gabrielshow24:
Indeed, he didn't experience it while creating it. He needed to fully take on the form of humans. Infact, your God is responsible for the state of the world. He is just experiencing Hardship by using himself(balablu) in high places to deprive himself(the masses) of basic amenities in low places🤧. What a God? The God that continues to fail his own purpose, allowing himself to be killed by himself 😂😂😂, coming back everytime to repeat the cycle!

To what end, Haba! Your God has personality disorder 😵‍💫. Probably, not, he is just using himself(me) to talk to himself(you) that he has personality disorder 😂😂😂.

You still don't understand anything for you?
God created the heavens and the earth. He then created the sun, stars and moon and a sign their functions, he commanded the earth to bring forth vegetarian and animals of their kind and she complied. He then proceeded to ask the earth to join him to create man. The earth brought the sand/dust..and God moulded it into a statue of a man and then God send his spirit (which was the same image and likeness as God) in other words himself into the statue and it came to life (a living soul) . Do you understand so far before I continue?

sonmvayina:
The Messiah the Jewish prophet spoke about is a man from the line of David through Solomon his son. Not a demi god. So the the prophecy was not talking about Jesus. The Messiah is coming to rule. He will be crowned king and be anointed with a special oil as part of his coronation . He is not coming to die for sins. God already gave them the solution to the problem of sin. Jesus was never king. The two contradictory genealogies in Mathew and Luke can never produce a Messiah.
Jesus was a Roman Catholic invention QED.

sonmvayina:
All these stuff are what Christianity is saying. They are not what the Jews imply when they talk about a Messiah.
There is no second coming arrangements in the Tanakh. Christianity is rebranded paganism nothing more. The worship of Lucifer and her son(mother and child) nothing more.
God hates human sacrifice, he even hates animal sacrifice....what he wants us to sacrifice is our ego....confess and forsake our sins, he would forgive. When he sent Jonah to Nineveh, they repented, he forgave them. No animal sacrifice. That is sufficient for God.

(A Roman invention that trashed their cherished gods and made their god-emperor just another sinful man needing salvation!)

I must assume you've never heard of Isaiah 9.
Here it is below. You didn't answer my question as to wether all those other things were also myths: from persecution of Christians by Rome to Constantine’s mother becoming Christian to Edict of Milan. Here's a Isaiah 9. Note the bolded.

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.

Gabrielshow24:
The 'sheepish narrative' they have cannot clearly define the concept "God" hence they have a problem with Jesus being God🤕. Which makes them conflate identity with nature🤔.

The narrative JW have is that Christ is an angel, noticeably Michael 🤔; now they run into problems very quickly! Without even using scriptures just basic logic they have problems reconciling the preeminence of Christ over the rest(angels). A certain elder from them decided to create the first set theory 👀(Primus conventus) which states that these 'archangels' were the first set of angels to interact with God👀, which also runs into another problem because it assumes that Angels were not made at the same time or they were made in batches😀—A lovely fallacious reconciliation with the scripture, ' all things were made by Jesus' yet this theory falls flat🤕, very flat, Indeed! Upon deeper analysis.

Also, the law of non-contradiction 😂 doesn't favor their narratives 🤧. The character of Jesus on earth conflicts greatly with the warlike dispositions of Michael 👀— which will warrant men to call Jesus an hypocrite for encouraging peace🤔 while he didn't 'turn the left cheek' in heaven👀.

This also squashes their absolute statement of "No true christian will take up arms". In all, it reduces their conclusion to a mere false Equivocation! You could also say, 'Why didn't they say Jesus is a winnowers fan because he was written coming with one?'😁 As a subtle reply to their 'coming with the voice of an Archangel' rhetoric🤧 and to finish it off, you can totally squash their allusions by using the extreme of their argument —seeing it is centred on 'Jesus being an angel'—to conclude that God, himself, is a messenger of himself😂 which they can never have a rebuttal for. Any response from them will be met with simple questions and they will be forced to either evade or avoid these questions, totally!

All in all without typing too much because of this despot of a bot😂. You get the gist.

Another one is that he is exactly like Moses. I don't know who comes up with this stuff for them

QuinQ:
(A Roman invention that trashed their cherished gods and made their god-emperor just another sinful man needing salvation!)

I must assume you've never heard of Isaiah 9.
Here it is below. You didn't answer my question as to wether all those other things were also myths: from persecution of Christians by Rome to Constantine’s mother becoming Christian to Edict of Milan. Here's a Isaiah 9. Note the bolded.

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.

All these stories were told to you by Christians/Catholic. Everything is forged.
Isaiah 9 that you quoted, I don't think you even read it yourself. You won't have even referenced it.
"For to us A child is born"
The child has already been born. Infact he was 6 years old when Isaiah wrote those. Isaiah was already seeing the child. He was a young boy....he would be future king. He would rule probability after his father died and there would be peace during his reign.....
The person in question is future KING HEZEKIAH his father was king Ahaz, who was hated.

QuinQ:
You believe Jesus existed before Adam (just like he told the Jews) and therefore came from heaven, and believing that, here's what you wrote:
"So whoever comes from heaven must be one of those living there either God or angel and in this case Jesus didn't claim he was an angel rather God's Son which makes him divine so to speak."

Well if you must know he is Archangel Michael!

QuinQ:
But you believe Jesus said he was one with God, and that once you've seen him you've seen God. Who else has said anything close to that in Jewish history, and how far is that from saying he's same as God?

Ọmọ Jesus came from heaven means he is one of God's Spirit Sons in heaven an angel!

MaxInDHouse:
Well if you must know he is Archangel Michael!

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ Jesus came from heaven means he is one of God's Spirit Sons in heaven an angel!

OK, and you say he's exactly like Moses. Is Moses also Archangel Michael?
And how about John the Baptist? Remember he also came from heaven

sonmvayina:
All these stories were told to you by Christians/Catholic. Everything is forged.
Isaiah 9 that you quoted, I don't think you even read it yourself. You won't have even referenced it.
"For to us A child is born"
The child has already been born. Infact he was 6 years old when Isaiah wrote those. Isaiah was already seeing the child. He was a young boy....he would be future king. He would rule probability after his father died and there would be peace during his reign.....
The person in question is future KING HEZEKIAH his father was king Ahaz, who was hated.

Wow, I never knew history books were also made up by Rome - and people actually study history, not knowing everything was made up by Rome. Who exactly in Rome made them up? Or did they have a conference of Roman senators and agreed to invent Jesus and history? They could not agree on anything except inventing Jesus!

But nobody ever called Hezekiah Mighty God, everlasting Father, and his kingdom did not last forever

Gabrielshow24:
Truthseeker is just pulling your legs. He doesn't have anything useful to add. The other guy, gohf, doesn't have a point. All his premises can be destroyed if you ask him to define what a "God" should be🤕.

All these anti-Christs pretending to be christians but negate the very fact of scripture that Jesus is God! Also, My use of nairaland has been greatly hampered by the bot, which seems to target me with reckless abandon👀— which delayed my response to this thread, irrespective let's see if this message stands or gets me banned😁.

you said it is a fact of scripture, well tell us where God said Jesus is God or that the Christ is God? That's if you know what scripture is and what the Christ means.

QuinQ:
OK, and you say he's exactly like Moses. Is Moses also Archangel Michael?
And how about John the Baptist? Remember he also came from heaven.

It's not a must you argue simply because of the dogma you were taught from childhood.
Jesus was a PROPHET in the manner of Moses doesn't mean Moses is also from heaven.
All humans are from the lineage of Adam that's why we were all born in sin and as for John the baptist who told you he is from heaven?

gohf:
you said it is a fact of scripture, well tell us where God said Jesus is God or that the Christ is God? That's if you know what scripture is and what the Christ means.

😂It seems you have decided to come out of your shell and talk👀, that's good. Let's talk, Christ gave lots of hints to his divine nature.

Now let me ask you, how do you know that when God was speaking in the Bible that it wasn't Jesus? If you can succinctly decipher without alluding to a generic term, then we have a discussion then if you can't then you are no different to a blind man that calls whatsoever he touches Hairy!

I will like to know your system of identifying whether it was the Father or the Son or perhaps the spirit 👀 that spoke in such and such place🤨.

Let's see how reasonable you are!
If you can't then you buttress the entire point of scripture that it was Jesus that revealed 'trinity' to us!

Gabrielshow24:
😂It seems you have decided to come out of your shell and talk👀, that's good. Let's talk, Christ gave lots of hints to his divine nature.

Now let me ask you, how do you know that when God was speaking in the Bible that it wasn't Jesus? If you can succinctly decipher without alluding to a generic term, then we have a discussion then if you can't then you are no different to a blind man that calls whatsoever he touches Hairy!

I will like to know your system of identifying whether it was the Father or the Son or perhaps the spirit 👀 that spoke in such and such place🤨.

Let's see how reasonable you are!
If you can't then you buttress the entire point of scripture that it was Jesus that revealed 'trinity' to us!

seems I may have been ignoring you for you to refer to it has coming out of a shell to talk to you. And I am beginning to see reason why my past self did so.

You could not even answer the question asked you, yet you are demanding a conversation and even asking me questions. Wow. You really are full of yourself ain't you, lol you even want to see how reasonable I am. All this response to enquire I made of you. Don't bother answering

Your other reason already showed how foolish you reason, you saw the reasons and left. Smh pathetic

MaxInDHouse:
It's not a must you argue simply because of the dogma you were taught from childhood.
Jesus was a PROPHET in the manner of Moses doesn't mean Moses is also from heaven.
All humans are from the lineage of Adam that's why we were all born in sin and as for John the baptist who told you he is from heaven?

I'm not arguing, I'm only asking questions. How come Moses and every other prophet run from being seen as as one with God but Jesus ran towards it. How come non of them ever said the kind of things about themselves that Jesus was saying about Himself -"I am the only way to God". They all direct you to the way, Christ said He Himself was the way.

Have you forgotten John the Baptist said he was sent (from heaven) to prepare the way for the Lord and that he was no fit to untie His shoes?

And to make sense of it, is to believe that the only way to God is God himself. It just has to be so. 😕

May God give us wisdom

QuinQ:
I'm not arguing, I'm only asking questions. How come Moses and every other prophet run from being seen as as one with God but Jesus ran towards it. How come non of them ever said the kind of things about themselves that Jesus was saying about Himself -"I am the only way to God". They all direct you to the way, Christ said He Himself was the way.

Have you forgotten John the Baptist said he was sent (from heaven) to prepare the way for the Lord and that he was no fit to untie His shoes?

Jesus said he is one with God because it was difficult for his listeners to believe in his teachings which contradicts the actions of former prophets.
So for them to know that God is behind Jesus he performed the greatest miracles ever recorded in the Bible.

That word "One with God" simply means he has God's backing not that he is the same as God.

The assignment given to John is what he said it's from heaven not John the son of Zachariah while Jesus has no human father.

gohf:
seems I may have been ignoring you for you to refer to it has coming out of a shell to talk to you. And I am begging to see reason why my past self did so.

You could not even answer the question asked you, yet you are demanding a conversation and even asking me questions. Wow. You really are full of yourself ain't you, lol you even want to see how reasonable I am. All this response to enquire I made of you. Don't bother answering

Your other reason already showed how foolish you reason, you saw the reasons and left. Smh pathetic

Just tell the world, you have no answer to this question. Is it not the Lord speaking in Isaiah 48? Yet he mentions the sovereign Lord hath sent him with his spirit🤨.

What point do you have? You can't give a definition for the concept called God!

The point of my question was to show the world—which your response has greatly validated—that there is some difficulty of knowing which of the God-head is speaking; which shows how generic, or slightly vague the term God is! It's a way for me to inundate with reasoning your sheepish vague use and application of the term God!

Also, why should I evade such a simple question? I will surely get there and answer your questions both scripturally and logically!

If Jesus is God why did he say "pray our father"?

Jesus is NOT God according to God's word the title "GOD" was used for many other personalities {Psalms 82:1, 6} but out of all these Gods Jesus is the only one who was created first so he existed before all other creatures and he is the one given the privilege to create them.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said he is one with God because it was difficult for his listeners to believe in his teachings which contradicts the actions of former prophets.
So for them to know that God is behind Jesus he performed the greatest miracles ever recorded in the Bible.

That word "One with God" simply means he has God's backing not that he is the same as God.

The assignment given to John is what he said it's from heaven not John the son of Zachariah while Jesus has no human father.

He also said once you've seen him you've seen the Father and the Father was in Him and He in the Father. Not only did no other prophet come close to saying that but if you said that about any other prophet he'd curse you for trying to bring a curse on him.

As for John the Baptist, read Mathew 3:3 about him --
This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the LORD,
make straight paths for him.’”
Note, LORD not prophet.
Also, what sort of prophet is another prophet not fit to untie His shoes??

QuinQ:
He also said once you've seen him you've seen the Father and the Father was in Him and He in the Father. Not only did no other prophet come close to saying that but if you said that about any other prophet he'd curse you for trying to bring a curse on him.

John explained no man has seen God at any time but Jesus through his words, thought and actions explained God {John 1:18} this means all the qualities of God could be seen in Jesus because unlike other prophets who were imperfect humans Jesus is a perfect being like the first man Adam {1Corinthans 15:45} so he possessed all the qualities we need to see in God just as Adam had before he rebelled against God. Luke 3:38

QuinQ:
As for John the Baptist, read Mathew 3:3 about him --
This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the LORD,
make straight paths for him.’”
Note, LORD not prophet.
Also, what sort of prophet is another prophet not fit to untie His shoes??

Preparing the way for Jehovah (LORD in KJV) means it's time for the Jews to know all the qualities of God through the Christ not that Christ is Jehovah.
Remember who has not known Christ has not known all the qualities of God! John 1:18

QuinQ:
Wow, I never knew history books were also made up by Rome - and people actually study history, not knowing everything was made up by Rome. Who exactly in Rome made them up? Or did they have a conference of Roman senators and agreed to invent Jesus and history? They could not agree on anything except inventing Jesus!

But nobody ever called Hezekiah Mighty God, everlasting Father, and his kingdom did not last forever

All this stories were written after Nicaea, probably by Eusebius the master forger. He is the one who wrote the history of the church. In it, he even said he never cared about the truth, he was only concerned with making a people believe.

This is what Isaiah wrote....this is what you get when you follow a mistranslated version.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said he is one with God because it was difficult for his listeners to believe in his teachings which contradicts the actions of former prophets.
So for them to know that God is behind Jesus he performed the greatest miracles ever recorded in the Bible.

That word "One with God" simply means he has God's backing not that he is the same as God.

The assignment given to John is what he said it's from heaven not John the son of Zachariah while Jesus has no human father.

I love the bolded.