₦airaland Forum

PulsingPurple:
[color=#006400]Question:[/color]
"God killed tons of people in the Bible."
[color=#8B0000]Response:[/color]
Well, it’s actually way more than that.
God numbers everyone’s days.
He’s the [color=#8B0000]Giver of Life[/color], so He can take it—especially if people sin.

MaxInDHouse:
God is not happy killing anyone whether they sin or not His main reason for killing is love for those who are doing the right thing it's like when you wish to save some people out of those who has been infected with a dealy, incurable and infectious disease the first thing to do is quarantine infected ones away from the rest but what happens when the only way to quarantine them is by locking them where they can't in anyway come in contact with the rest?

That's what God is doing!

Most of those killed back then will be resurrected again when the virus has been squashed by then whoever wants to bring back the virus will be exterminated completely never to be remembered again.

So it's an act of love for those who aren't infected that God wiped out infected ones.

PulsingPurple:
It's a long read as well. You can also look up the title above on YouTube to watch a video (from Redeemed Zoomer) with these (better) explanations instead.

This one will be a bit different.
Plenty (if not most) of the arguments for atheism are structured as a confrontation to the Christian God, so the responses to these questions are also included at once.

AlbertNewton:
The bolded is true. And I think that's largely because the biblical god has become the most popular of all the numerous gods out there. Furthermore, there's a book, the bible, that's purported to contain accounts of the deeds and words of this god, providing disprovable grounds to argue for or against the realness or existence of such an entity. Through the omniscience and omnipotence qualities often attributed to it, the biblical god also comes the closest to what might "make sense" for a creator of the universe to be like. In a way, if it can be established that the biblical god is not real, then we can safely say that none of the other gods can be real!

I was raised in a Christian home, but as a result of the stupid and evil things that were recorded God did (and said) in the bible, as well as the ridiculousness of the idea of heaven and hell, I couldn't see the biblical god as real let alone as the creator of the universe. And because I can't find a better replacement for the biblical god, I ended up an atheist.
Since we are yet to fully grasp existence (the cause and the purpose of it), I'm all for the possibility that there could be some entity out there that actually created the universe, but I'm convinced it's not the blood-thirsty, tribalistic monster talked about in the bible.

PulsingPurple:
[color=#006400]Question:[/color]
"God killed tons of people in the Bible."..

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted often amuse me because most of you never studied the Bible with the true worshipers of the Author!

AlbertNewton:
Who are you referring to ?

AlbertNewton:
The bolded is true. And I think that's largely because the biblical god has become the most popular of all the numerous gods out there. Furthermore, there's a book, the bible, that's purported to contain accounts of the deeds and words of this god, providing disprovable grounds to argue for or against the realness or existence of such an entity. Through the omniscience and omnipotence qualities often attributed to it, the biblical god also comes the closest to what might "make sense" for a creator of the universe to be like. In a way, if it can be established that the biblical god is not real, then we can safely say that none of the other gods can be real!

I was raised in a Christian home, but as a result of the stupid and evil things that were recorded God did (and said) in the bible, as well as the ridiculousness of the idea of heaven and hell, I couldn't see the biblical god as real let alone as the creator of the universe. And because I can't find a better replacement for the biblical god, I ended up an atheist.
Since we are yet to fully grasp existence (the cause and the purpose of it), I'm all for the possibility that there could be some entity out there that actually created the universe, but I'm convinced it's not the blood-thirsty, tribalistic monster talked about in the bible.

AlbertNewton:
The bolded is true. And I think that's largely because the biblical god has become the most popular of all the numerous gods out there. Furthermore, there's a book, the bible, that's purported to contain accounts of the deeds and words of this god, providing disprovable grounds to argue for or against the realness or existence of such an entity. Through the omniscience and omnipotence qualities often attributed to it, the biblical god also comes the closest to what might "make sense" for a creator of the universe to be like. In a way, if it can be established that the biblical god is not real, then we can safely say that none of the other gods can be real!

I was raised in a Christian home, but as a result of the stupid and evil things that were recorded God did (and said) in the bible, as well as the ridiculousness of the idea of heaven and hell, I couldn't see the biblical god as real let alone as the creator of the universe. And because I can't find a better replacement for the biblical god, I ended up an atheist.
Since we are yet to fully grasp existence (the cause and the purpose of it), I'm all for the possibility that there could be some entity out there that actually created the universe, but I'm convinced it's not the blood-thirsty, tribalistic monster talked about in the bible.

AlbertNewton:
I believe you didn't make your points with intentions of debate or anything.

So this is just a casual conversation, casual thoughts. Especially focusing on the last things you said:

What counts as right or wrong?
To an ion it's +be or -ve...
To a computer bit it's 1 or 0.
In boolean, it's true or false.
To a plant it's? See it starts to get complicated? Nutrients or not, light or not, water or not, depending.
To a baby it's? Complicated too? Comfortable or not, happy or not, etc, depending.
As you climb the ladder, you realize that things with a lower capacity for reasoning don't even have the capacity to comprehend what is right or wrong for something of the higher capacity, no matter how much you explained.

A computer bit could evolve tho... Could end up being part of a machine learning model that's able to simulate better reasoning, AI.

Saying all these to say by normal logic, a human wouldn't be capable of reasoning far beyond their scope, to the extent of fully understanding God.

So in summary (from my first reply):
1. The argument that the idea of God can't be right because "I don't believe in any of the personalities I've come to see" can't be counted as valid.
That's basically the same argument behind "relationship na scam".
2. The argument that the idea of God can't be right because "I don't fully understand any of the personalities that I've come to see" can't be counted as valid.
That's almost the same thing like saying a black hole isn't real because I can't see it. By mere definition I wasn't meant to be able to see it.
By mere definition we weren't supposed to fully understand the decision of an entity who's supposedly infinitely more intelligent than ourselves.

All these come in after acknowledging that there's good possibility for a God, and then we're trying to see which one fits our measurements

I know it feels pointless saying most of these things because according to you, you're not in any of these categories.
Just thought to restate it, it's where most of the "atheists" I've encountered approach the arguments from.

MaxInDHouse:
The Bible God!

Dtruthspeaker:
I can argue here that you do not exist from here to eternity and you can never prove it. I just did it to your brother in atheism on Saturday and till today he cannot prove that a car exists.

So it's not about grounds of argument but a matter of your personal disposition which does not even need a ground to fly. So you people are talking rubbish.

And when you accuse Him of blood thirstyness I hope you are enjoying these days that killings and dies are easy and you are not complaining that the killings are too much. And so it is ok if you are blessed with it.

AlbertNewton:
So who are the true worshippers ?

PulsingPurple:
I believe you didn't make your points with intentions of debate or anything.

So this is just a casual conversation, casual thoughts. Especially focusing on the last things you said:

What counts as right or wrong?
To an ion it's +be or -ve...
To a computer bit it's 1 or 0.
In boolean, it's true or false.
To a plant it's? See it starts to get complicated? Nutrients or not, light or not, water or not, depending.
To a baby it's? Complicated too? Comfortable or not, happy or not, etc, depending.
As you climb the ladder, you realize that things with a lower capacity for reasoning don't even have the capacity to comprehend what is right or wrong for something of the higher capacity, no matter how much you explained.

A computer bit could evolve tho... Could end up being part of a machine learning model that's able to simulate better reasoning, AI.

Saying all these to say by normal logic, a human wouldn't be capable of reasoning far beyond their scope, to the extent of fully understanding God.

So in summary (from my first reply):
1. The argument that the idea of God can't be right because "I don't believe in any of the personalities I've come to see" can't be counted as valid.
That's basically the same argument behind "relationship na scam".
2. The argument that the idea of God can't be right because "I don't fully understand any of the personalities that I've come to see" can't be counted as valid.
That's almost the same thing like saying a black hole isn't real because I can't see it. By mere definition I wasn't meant to be able to see it.
By mere definition we weren't supposed to fully understand the decision of an entity who's supposedly infinitely more intelligent than ourselves.

All these come in after acknowledging that there's good possibility for a God, and then we're trying to see which one fits our measurements

I know it feels pointless saying most of these things because according to you, you're not in any of these categories.
Just thought to restate it, it's where most of the "atheists" I've encountered approach the arguments from.

MaxInDHouse:
Jehovah's Witnesses!

AlbertNewton:
Let me state my stance again as an atheist.
Since I do not really know how the universe came about, I'm open to all kinds of possibilities, including the possibility that some supernatural entity did it (though I'm not persuaded this is the case). Now because I was raised in a Christian home, the god I grew up to know is the biblical god, the God of Isaac, Jacob and Abraham. And based on the stories and accounts recorded in the bible about what this god did and said, I was not convinced this biblical god is real. Realising that the biblical god is perhaps the best among all the various gods people believe in, my rejection of the biblical god invariably led to the rejection of all the other (known) gods, thereby making me essentially an atheist.

So as you have rightly noted, the points you are raising (which are sensible by the way) do not really apply to me. If there is something that created the universe (and there ought to be), I believe the nature of such creator might be completely beyond what our limited mind/intellect can grasp. But I maintain that the biblical god CANNOT be this ultimate creator.

AlbertNewton:
What makes them the "true worshippers" ? Who declared them as such ?
So you're basically saying that billions of other Christians don't know what they are doing ?

AlbertNewton:
[1] What makes them the "true worshippers" ?

[2] Who declared them as such ?

[3] So you're basically saying that billions of other Christians don't know what they are doing ?

PulsingPurple:
If it is this argument, after commending Max for being a fellow believer, I'll still join and bash the claims and as usual he might respond till we hit redundancy. 😅

All in all, the idea that about 144,000 people only will be saved means that a majority of the JWs will face the same fate with me.

Every body pushing true Christianity will somehow convince you to just love and contribute your best towards humanity, especially to those who might be at the lowest of lows (in the morally upright ways).

Combine this with the mindset that there's a loving creator somewhere and that he's reached out to you, and that's where most of us agree, and I'm sure we can gain some points for passing basic requirements, without needing to go into details of doctrines.

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is misconstrued!
Millions of people will be saved but only 144,000 will become Christ's corulers and he promised to take them to another destination {John 14:1-3} after Jerusalem has been profaned with the blood of God's prophets! Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38

So don't think it's only 144,000 people will be saved because even i that's talking to you am not one of the 144,000 and none of God's servants who lived before John the baptist qualifies to be part of that list! Matthew 11:11

PulsingPurple:
Well noted sir... You pass the point, I get the it, it's a very common pattern sef:

People start in a certain religion, at some point, they hit a life changing moment and make a final stance.

In your case, Christian to atheist (I think you mean agnostic or something but yhh we understand you well enough that there's no need to ponder on definition of terms).

Then, what if I say there's people who had that turning point but moved from Islam to Christian, or vice versa, or even Christian to Christian?

So yhh very normal to reach the point in life where the brain becomes capable of logical reasoning and one can try to think, draw conclusions and act with intentions.

Personally, I also grew up in a Christian household luckily.
However it was after my own turning point that I became an actual Christian, and I realised the thing I thought to be Christianity, as a supposed Christian for 19 years was flawed.

Spent about 3 years minimum navigating a new approach to the understanding of this God.
Before then, I was just religious enough to know that going to church and praying regularly is good, but after that I've been well aware of every decision I make and every conclusion I draw, of everything I claim to stand for.

So just like something solidified your stance in atheism, for many people here, something also solidified their stance in whatever they chose to walk with. It's not like we're all babbling because we were born here.
Max for instance was Muslim I guess.



Then there's no intention to sway your stance. (I'm low-key saying that the same explanation for your choice is someone else's same explanation for standing firmer in Christianity for instance 😅).

On a normal day the frustration is with people who actually claim they can't process the possibility of a God, especially those who end up being obsessed with every God talk out there.

Meanwhile we could just casually talk about stuffs... There's much you haven't said.

PulsingPurple:
Okay oo... 🙌

MaxInDHouse:
[1] The Bible God promised to unite His worshipers and make them go throughout the earth in search of friends of peace {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} by the time they gets to understand His word correctly among themselves the whole world will notice it because it will seem as if these people from different nations have started speaking the same language which means there will be understanding among them {Zephaniah 3:9} in fact people will start saying about them "don't mind that religion, they love only their members" because it will be so glaring that there is a strong bond permeating their gathering! John 13:34-35
So when Jesus of Nazareth said there is a kind of fruit expected of the only true religion {Matthew 7:16-18} many sincere people are now getting the sense that this fruit is LOVE! 1John 4:8 compare to John 13:34-35

[2] The true God declared it but you can't know if you refuse to study the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses. Before the year 1931 the whole world only knows Bible carriers as Christians though there are thousands of different religions with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all claiming Christians which is an insult to the Bible God making Him appear like a confusionist {1Corinthans 14:33} but according to His Son all His worshipers supposed to have the same line of thought throughout the world {John 17:22; 1Corinthans 1:10} so after the Bible students association (formed in the late 1800s) got things right the Bible God fulfilled His promise by giving them another group name which makes them totally different from all others claiming Christians:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 65:15
Today there is no country where these people can't be found in fact they are in the world's most racist nations yet they are united in faith and love with their fellow believers in other lands!

[3] That is obvious from what we can all see! You said the Bible God is bloodthirsty, tribalistic monster but you'll be shocked to know the truth about Him.
How can you call someone bloodthirsty when the only language ancient people back then understands is violence?
Imagine this God who claims He is the Creator of all things sending two feeble octogenarians to the world's first most powerful king in human history begging Him to release the descendants of Jacob by performing miracles to prove His powers only for this King to call out his own magicians to do the same!
Some people often say God hardened the heart of Pharaoh but they don't know what that phrase means it doesn't mean God is making Pharaoh to disobey Him rather it simply means God didn't touch the man in a way that he will fear.
For instance imagine if God wants to deal with the president of Russia for tackling Ukraine and what God did is to send someone to tell him "stop attacking Ukraine or you will die within seven days" of course the man will take it as a joke but what if he fell sick at the moment and the sickness is getting worse to the point he couldn't even raise his hands? Do you think he won't order his armies to retreat when he notice his condition keeps getting worse as each day passes?
Well that's what the Bible God meant as He allows Pharaoh to continue feeling he is still in control not until he lost his first son along with millions of firstborn in Egypt!
This thing God did to send a warning signal to all the occupants of Canaan that the most high God is coming with the Israelites yet the inhabitants of that land were planning to fight against Him!
Well the words of Rahab a prostitute in Jericho shows that they were stupid! Joshua 2:9-13
Is that the only person who feared God in Canaan?
No!
There was another tribe called Gibeonites! Joshua 9:3-15

Do you know a better way God could have handled the situation?

AlbertNewton:
You might need to make your point more clearly and logically before I respond to it.

AlbertNewton:
.. But I maintain that the biblical god CANNOT be this ultimate creator...

Dtruthspeaker:
Just say you know that you have no valid counter to this ss you know you got my points. One of which is that if I say that you do not exist from here to eternity you can never prove it.

If you think you can, then come play with me.