₦airaland Forum

KillahPriest:
you're just talking offside and in italics. The power plants in Rivers state for example that Amaechi built with gas supplied from Rivers state nko or, what about the one Bayelsa is building right now ? Sometimes just keep quiet instead of exposing yourself.

Rivers atate owned plant can sell to rivers peoppe at zero naira pwr kwhr. It is another thing to corner power generated or distributed by private individuals or federally regulated grid.

See what Aguiyi Ironsi's greed and lack of foresight caused.

Each region should have been developing at their own pace, but no. Longthroat no gree am rest. Lumped everyone together.

KillahPriest:
wonderful intellect indeed, please go back the your first post I quoted and read it again compared to my reply instead of gaslighting and speaking offside again

I’m honestly not gaslighting. What I mentioned is in alignment with what NERC said. The state can only get full independence when they build and don’t rely on national grid whatsoever.

For example, canaanland in ota provide it own electricity, NERC can’t go there to determine their price. I don’t know if you get it now.

naptu2:
1) Electricity has a cost. You must buy gas, pay workers, buy equipmemt, maintain equipment, etc. Payments must reflect that cost otherwise the sector will collapse.

2) The Federal Government is paying subsidy to reduce the cost for users. Users pay less, but the Federal Government pays the difference so that electricity companies can afford to generate power.

3) The Federal Government cannot afford the subsidy. It has been owing electricity companies for a long time. When the companies complain or when service reduces (because the companies cannot afford to generate electricity) the Federal Government will quickly pay part of the debt.

4) Then Enugu State suddenly reduced tariff because it says that Federal Government is paying subsidy (subsidy that the FG is owing o!).

5) NERC has told Enugu that they can't determine tariff for electricity from the national grid. Enugu State Government must pay subsidy if it wants to reduce the tariff or they can build power plants and generate electricity themselves.

When I first saw the article I misremembered that geometric power plant was located in enugu.

Possibly because imho you can only dictate pricing for power generated in your state. Which will determine who decides to set up plants in your state in future.

I was also wondering how they would recoup their investment seeing as the plant was stalled for over 10 years. How do you roll out a delayed project and then charge under market cost?

CodeTemplarr:
Rivers atate owned plant can sell to rivers peoppe at zero naira pwr kwhr. It is another thing to corner power generated or distributed by private individuals or federally regulated grid.

you people are ridiculous

KillahPriest:
you people are ridiculous

there is no "you people" anywhere.
It is commonsense logic.

The power that has been generated at, let's say, N100, shouldnt be hijacked and auctioned of at N50 because someone is trying to impress his constituency and turn them against the FG same time.

Why not warn the discos of unforseen consequences of not meeting expected payments or revenue due to tariff reduction.
Rather than saying people shouldn't get electricity cheaper.

It is so unfortunate any federal government policies is an Enemies of Nigerians. You raised every heavy Taxes on Nigerians and nothing is yet returned as return. You are making every policies to make politicians afloat financially at the detriment of Nigerians.

naptu2:
1) Electricity has a cost. Electricity companies must buy gas, pay workers, buy equipmemt, maintain equipment, etc. Payments must reflect that cost otherwise the sector will collapse.

2) The Federal Government is paying subsidy to reduce the cost for users. Users pay less, but the Federal Government pays the difference so that electricity companies can afford to generate power.

3) The Federal Government cannot afford the subsidy. It has been owing electricity companies for a long time. When the companies complain or when service reduces (because the companies cannot afford to generate electricity) the Federal Government will quickly pay part of the debt.

4) Then Enugu State suddenly reduced tariff because it says that Federal Government is paying subsidy (subsidy that the FG is owing o!).

5) NERC has told Enugu that they can't determine tariff for electricity from the national grid. Enugu State Government must pay subsidy if it wants to reduce the tariff or they can build power plants and generate electricity themselves.

Whatever expenses claimed by the electricity companies that is not shared with us in details cannot be used to determine national costs which the states consumers will be mandated to pay.

You cannot tell me tou are subsidising electricity when we dont know the amount generated or paid for.

The state is right and wants to free other Nigerians.

adekolaelect:
It is so unfortunate any federal government policies is an Enemies of Nigerians. You raised every heavy Taxes on Nigerians and nothing is yet returned as return. You are making every policies to make politicians afloat financially at the detriment of Nigerians.

Cabals everywhere

CodeTemplarr:
there is no "you people" anywhere.
It is commonsense logic.

The power that has been generated at, let's say, N100, shouldnt be hijacked and auctioned of at N50 because someone is trying to impress his constituency and turn them against the FG same time.

How did you come to the N100 cost, is the whole unit costs and payments public knowledge? Or you just want people to just keep paying blindly?

PresidObi:
Whatever expenses claimed by the electricity companies that is not shared with us in details cannot be used to determine national costs which the states consumers will be mandated to pay.

You cannot tell me tou are subsidising electricity when we dont know the amount generated or paid for.

The state is right and wants to free other Nigerians.

You don't know the cost and that's not the problem of anybody.

In the original post the Enugu State Government stated the cost which is much higher than the tariff, but it said that FG is paying subsidy, so that's why it is reducing the tariff.

Big news: the FG is owing billions in subsidy payments.

Enugu Electricity Regulatory Commission Crashes Band A From N209 To N160 Per Kwh
https://www.nairaland.com/8479485/enugu-electricity-regulatory-commission-crashes

PresidObi:
How did you come to the N100 cost, is the whole unit costs and payments public knowledge? Or you just want people to just keep paying blindly?

It is an example. Thats to say, the state i selling less than what the originator feels is optimum for them.

Just listening to this on radio.
I like this squabble. It should motivate states to completely exit the so called 'national greed grid' and seek for the kind of total independence that can spur local development.

A zone like Enugu should be jumping at this opportunity. It has an essential source of energy, coal. All it takes is to fly to the experts in coal to energy, China, a country that powered itself to development reportedly building a new coal fired plant every two weeks at a certain time.

This will be credits and loans worthwhile and foreign investments that will be impactful.

Every zone should the focus on the energy resources in its locality, efficiently generate and distribute at the tariffs it sees fit. Whoever can then provide at the lowest rates will attract the industrial investments.

Chimookigwe:
See what Aguiyi Ironsi's greed and lack of foresight caused.

Each region should have been developing at their own pace, but no. Longthroat no gree am rest. Lumped everyone together.

Even if regions developed at their own pace, power will still be expensive

Gas is very expensive, as is the equipment you need to supply power. So far, what we make in Nigeria are electricity poles, and wires (our local wires are better than foreign wires). We don't make the turbines, the furnaces, and a lot of the transmission equipment, so it is going to be expensive.

The real argument you are having here is that if there were regions, power would have been cheap. E no work that way. Power is really very expensive. I expect that any region trying to maintain cheap power would be in debt to the power companies because they would have difficulty paying subsides.

LIke now, government is still owing subsides since 2013....that is why tinubu removed subsides from band A people. TO offset some of that debt.

CodeTemplarr:
It is an example. Thats to say, the state i selling less than what the originator feels is optimum for them.

I was also citing an example, there is no figures to back up any figures, the N100 you claim could actually be 15 naira spent and some corrupt persons are trying to collect N100 from us. No records anywhere. No transparency.

naptu2:
You don't know the cost and that's not the problem of anybody.

In the original post the Enugu State Government stated the cost which is much higher than the tariff, but it said that FG is paying subsidy, so that's why it is reducing the tariff.

Big news: the FG is owing billions in subsidy payments.

Enugu Electricity Regulatory Commission Crashes Band A From N209 To N160 Per Kwh
https://www.nairaland.com/8479485/enugu-electricity-regulatory-commission-crashes

Proper state takeover of the power sector should end federal subsidies and the crazy unified tariffs across country.

Reference:
Proper state takeover of the power sector should end federal subsidies and the crazy unified tariffs across country.

Exactly! I have been complaining that FG should stop paying subsidy and allow any state that wants to pay subsidy to foot the bill.

starpower:
lol, they are result of bad education. Even at current tarrif government is subsidizing gas

And so?

PresidObi:
Whatever expenses claimed by the electricity companies that is not shared with us in details cannot be used to determine national costs which the states consumers will be mandated to pay.

You cannot tell me tou are subsidising electricity when we dont know the amount generated or paid for.

The state is right and wants to free other Nigerians.

Are you sure you are a Obident. Because from the way you are talking, you sound like a communist, not a Obident. You want government to control the prices of everything in the interest of the masses because you believe businesses are ripping you off.

The reason why power is expensive in nigeria is simple. Gas is very expensive. And gas is paid for in dollars...yes even gas by NGC. Gas also forms 80% of our supply. ANd even our hydro plants need upgrades urgently.

But you are here working on an assumption that the discos and gencos are lying to ngierians so that they can make profit. Like you don't know that until 2 years ago, government was subdising electricity, and discos were losing money, and gencos were rejecting power because they knew that discos won't pay them...and the same thing exists today even with tinubulin removing subsides on band A.

At the end, power has to be deregulated, otherwise, we are going to keep on suffering no light. Yes, right now discos made 1 trillion naira. The experts say that the sector needs 15 trillion naira annually to fix power. Who is going to invest when government of apc is controlling prices, and setting prices.

(Infact, am sure you must be supporting APC...because na dem wey dey do subsidy and price control for 80% of consumers of power).

If you were asked to invest in a biscuit factory, and you invest, only to be told that the biscuit factory is making biscuits at N1000 a pack and selling them at N50 a pack because tinubu government wants nigerian kids to enjoy cheap biscuit...would you keep investing in that factory...when you know you won't see ROI.?

Not everyting is rip off and rip off. DISCOS and gencos have to pay taxes, pay salaries...and remember we are operating under tinubulin economics....and pay for the gencos and tcn's plans to improve generation and transmission.

Or maybe you want to set up a Marxist government that would charge N10 per kwh for power...and then take heavy loans from IMF secretly to pay for the resulting deficit. Maybe that's what you want to do

Speech over.

PresidObi:
I was also citing an example, there is no figures to back up any figures, the N100 you claim could actually be 15 naira spent and some corrupt persons are trying to collect N100 from us. No records anywhere. No transparency.

well, regulators dont operate by speculations. They consult the books in extreme cases and draw a fair plan for all from that. If the state feels electricity generation is much cheaper and they are being ripped off, that's what open market is there for. Let them generate their own power at the ridiculous rate and sell accordingly. No need to hijack another man's produce and be dictating price based on hate for the central government.
Simple as that.

Reference:
Just listening to this on radio.
I like this squabble. It should motivate states to completely exit the so called 'national greed grid' and seek for the kind of total independence that can spur local development.

A zone like Enugu should be jumping at this opportunity. It has an essential source of energy, coal. All it takes is to fly to the experts in coal to energy, China, a country that powered itself to development reportedly building a new coal fired plant every two weeks at a certain time.

This will be credits and loans worthwhile and foreign investments that will be impactful.

Every zone should the focus on the energy resources in its locality, efficiently generate and distribute at the tariffs it sees fit. Whoever can then provide at the lowest rates will attract the industrial investments.

Yep, subbutiminous coal can be used for power generation...but everyone is now chanting clean power.

A nuclear power station can generate 5GW if we had the money to build it.

GloriousGbola:
When I first saw the article I misremembered that geometric power plant was located in enugu.

Possibly because imho you can only dictate pricing for power generated in your state. Which will determine who decides to set up plants in your state in future.

I was also wondering how they would recoup their investment seeing as the plant was stalled for over 10 years. How do you roll out a delayed project and then charge under market cost?

It might be technically difficult, but the Federal Government needs to stop subsidising electricity in any state that the state government has taken over regulatory control.

nairalanda1:
Even if regions developed at their own pace, power will still be expensive

Gas is very expensive, as is the equipment you need to supply power. So far, what we make in Nigeria are electricity poles, and wires (our local wires are better than foreign wires). We don't make the turbines, the furnaces, and a lot of the transmission equipment, so it is going to be expensive.

The real argument you are having here is that if there were regions, power would have been cheap. E no work that way. Power is really very expensive. I expect that any region trying to maintain cheap power would be in debt to the power companies because they would have difficulty paying subsides.

LIke now, government is still owing subsides since 2013....that is why tinubu removed subsides from band A people. TO offset some of that debt.

But gas is not the only source of energy. There are far cheaper souces such as coal or hydro. And the plants themselves don't have to be mega billion dollar undertakings.

10 megawatts here and there will eventually lead to grid stability. There are over 12,000 power plants in the US, feeding three grids, grids so advanced in some places like California that they generate both ways, i.e individual consumers with excess power, a few kilowatts here and there can feedback the energy into the grid and get paid for it.

Such cannot be possible with the limitations of one national grid.

Reference:
Just listening to this on radio.
I like this squabble. It should motivate states to completely exit the so called 'national greed grid' and seek for the kind of total independence that can spur local development.

A zone like Enugu should be jumping at this opportunity. It has an essential source of energy, coal. All it takes is to fly to the experts in coal to energy, China, a country that powered itself to development reportedly building a new coal fired plant every two weeks at a certain time.

This will be credits and loans worthwhile and foreign investments that will be impactful.

Every zone should the focus on the energy resources in its locality, efficiently generate and distribute at the tariffs it sees fit. Whoever can then provide at the lowest rates will attract the industrial investments.

This has been a subject of massive debate and it's one of the reasons why I talk about the hypocrisy of the West.

There is global warming and everybody is talking about clean energy. Nigeria and other developing countries have been considering using coal to plug their energy gap, but the West put a lot of pressure on them not to do it because they say that coal pollutes the environment.

However, when Germany couldn't get gas from Russia due to the war in Ukraine, they quickly fired up their coal plants and nobody complained.

naptu2:
This has been a subject of massive debate and it's one of the reasons why I talk about the hypocrisy of the West.

There is global warming and everybody is talking about clean energy. Nigeria and other developing countries have been considering using coal to plug their energy gap, but the West put a lot of pressure on them not to do it because they say that coal pollutes the environment.

However, when Germany couldn't get gas from Russia due to the war in Ukraine, they quickly fired up their coal plants and nobody complained.

No, no, no. Don't mind them. Whole economies of the west rely on coal. Coal is one of the largest exports of Australia to China. The US relies heavily of coal and the economies of a couple of US states centre around coal.

Coal should not be a source of conflict for developing countries because their power needs and thus emissions will be much smaller. When their countries develop and power needs escalate then they will become rich enough to afford green energy, because it is expensive.

I think our leaders (developing world) are on the green alone bandwagon because of the carrots they receive from the west., i.e. they pay you not to develop in the real sense of it.

Node911:
I think many state governors are not well informed. You get the power from national grid, then start reducing cost as if you’re the one providing the service.

No one is saying they should not reduce price for the citizens but build your own before you can do that. How do they want national grid to breakeven?

Build yours, do your proper analysis to reduce cost and this thereby translate to less price target.

But the states taking from national grid, aren't they paying their quota?? So if they are paying their expected quota to the FG and the states decides to subsidize it for their people.. How does that concern FG?? Or are they taking from the national grid for free?

nairalanda1:
Yep, subbutiminous coal can be used for power generation...but everyone is now chanting clean power.

A nuclear power station can generate 5GW if we had the money to build it.

Green energy is not for the poor.
Your first car should not be a Rolls Royce if you intend to live your days in peace.

They should go to China, find second hand coal plants that China doesn't need again and buy them cheap to generate cheap energy. When the country begins to prosper we can the afford nuclear or geowhatever.

The reason why there is so much funding gap and cyclical debts in the industry is because almost all our energy comes from gas. Gas is expensive to source, process and distribute round all the power stations though it is relatively clean.

We need a proper energy mix to create a viable power sector because power has to serve all the people.

Imagine this for a moment.
How many people can afford to use gas domestically in their homes and businesses on a continuous basis compared to say firewood or coal. That is close to the exact ratio of those who can afford power generated from gas as compared to say power from coal or other cheaper sources.

PlasmaTV:
Lol
This is funny
So states can't make lives easier for their citizens . But if they increased the tarrifs, NERC would bury its head in the sand.

I don't think you understand what's happening. Before ...the State could not have its own electricity supply. Now they can ...set up their own power supply...distribution network etc ... but if they are taking any electricity from the national grid ... or using the transmission lines etc ...then the price charged within the State must not be more than the price set by the FG. The masses will benefit from this...if not ...the prices will hit the roof.

CodeTemplarr:
well, regulators dont operate by speculations. They consult the books in extreme cases and draw a fair plan for all from that. If the state feels electricity generation is much cheaper and they are being ripped off, that's what open market is there for. Let them generate their own power at the ridiculous rate and sell accordingly. No need to hijack another man's produce and be dictating price based on hate for the central government.
Simple as that.

Totally agree. You cannot be dictating the price of what you do not produce. I think Donald Trump is teaching bad habits round the world. You simply cannot control prices by fiat in a commercial set up.

Yes, a state like Niger with huge hydro resources should not be buying electricity at the high rates these gas plants generate.

So the solution.for states is to invest in cheaper alternative to 'national power'.

The UK considered buying some power from France a short while ago when oil and gas prices went high because France generates the bulk of its energy from nuclear which is not exposed to the instability of oil prices.

So it a market,

nairalanda1:
Are you sure you are a Obident. Because from the way you are talking, you sound like a communist, not a Obident. You want government to control the prices of everything in the interest of the masses because you believe businesses are ripping you off.

The reason why power is expensive in nigeria is simple. Gas is very expensive. And gas is paid for in dollars...yes even gas by NGC. Gas also forms 80% of our supply. ANd even our hydro plants need upgrades urgently.

But you are here working on an assumption that the discos and gencos are lying to ngierians so that they can make profit. Like you don't know that until 2 years ago, government was subdising electricity, and discos were losing money, and gencos were rejecting power because they knew that discos won't pay them...and the same thing exists today even with tinubulin removing subsides on band A.

At the end, power has to be deregulated, otherwise, we are going to keep on suffering no light. Yes, right now discos made 1 trillion naira. The experts say that the sector needs 15 trillion naira annually to fix power. Who is going to invest when government of apc is controlling prices, and setting prices.

(Infact, am sure you must be supporting APC...because na dem wey dey do subsidy and price control for 80% of consumers of power).

If you were asked to invest in a biscuit factory, and you invest, only to be told that the biscuit factory is making biscuits at N1000 a pack and selling them at N50 a pack because tinubu government wants nigerian kids to enjoy cheap biscuit...would you keep investing in that factory...when you know you won't see ROI.?

Not everyting is rip off and rip off. DISCOS and gencos have to pay taxes, pay salaries...and remember we are operating under tinubulin economics....and pay for the gencos and tcn's plans to improve generation and transmission.

Or maybe you want to set up a Marxist government that would charge N10 per kwh for power...and then take heavy loans from IMF secretly to pay for the resulting deficit. Maybe that's what you want to do

Speech over.

I am an Obidient, and I support private management of a country's resources, not government. I also stand against Federal government punishing the masses when state governments have a better plan.