₦airaland Forum

Ohyoudidnt:
Saying that your Lord isn’t one-eyed doesn't mean Allah has two eyes like we do. It’s more about clarifying that He’s perfect and doesn’t have any flaws, so there’s no room for confusion about His nature.

Sorry!
All Mohammed needed to say was
"If you are confused about the Dajjal, your Lord is NOT physical"!

But what did Mohammed say!?
1. He describes the Dajjal in detail
2. He mentioned one serious flaw in the Dajjal: as the ONE eye
3. He says: if you are still confused note that Allah doesn't have one eye!


Is the Dajjal ALMOST perfect but with a flaw?
Then why compare him with Allah!?

TenQ:
If Allah can be SEEN, then he has some form or shape! Do you contest this!?

The companions asked:
Would we see our Lord?
Mohammed compared the seeing of Allah like the seeing of the sun.
I am sure they were not asking the question
Would we know our Lord!?




Is it UNTRUE that:
Your prophet described Allah in form of SHAPES.
You Muslims will reject Allah because of his new SHAPE!
Then Allah will come to you in another SHAPE!

My argument is not that Allah is in human form but he is anyways
Sahih Muslim 2612 e
This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Abu Huraira and in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Hatim Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) is reported to have said: When any one of you fights with his brother, he should avoid his face for Allah created Adam in His own image.
Allah looks at least facially like Adam.

We don't know his height, complexion. We know Allah has two right hands. We also know that you Muslims will recognise Allah by his shin

Sahih al-Bukhari 7439
[s]Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri: We said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He said, "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?" We said, "No." He said, "So you will have no difficulty in seeing your Lord on that Day as you have no difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon (in a clear sky)........

They will reply, 'We used to worship Messiah, the son of Allah.' It will be said, 'You are liars, for Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What: do you want (now)?' They will say, 'We want You to provide us with water.' It will be said to them, 'Drink,' and they will fall down in Hell (instead). When there remain only those who used to worship Allah (Alone), both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, it will be said to them, 'What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation. These people will try to prostrate but their backs will be rigid like one piece of a wood (and they will not be able to prostrate). Then the bridge will be laid across Hell." We, the companions of the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is the bridge?'

when they see themselves safe........

the water of life.........
[/s]

So, you see that ALLAH has a shape and the shape has a Shin by which you Muslims will recognise him.




Is it untrue that Adam was created in the image of Allah?

If it is true, then Allah will look like us only that we may not be sure of his height, his size, his completion etc

Like I said:
Your prophet compared Allah to the Dajjal in pointing out differences. The Dajjal in many respects look like a human being!




I don't follow your Salad for knowledge of your religion. I follow what Allah says and what Mohammed said.

If you follow Mohammed, Allah has a shape, Allah is one, Allah cannot have a son because he doesn't have a consort, Allah sits upon his throne on the waters which is above the seven heavens, Allah has two right hands.
If you follow Allah, you will note that Allah created Adam with his TWO hands.

Your Salaf are reinventing the Religion of Mohammed because many of what he says are embarrassing.




Exactly!
I have accepted the Hadiths exactly as they are and the implications are haunting for Islam.




Truely, Muslims do not follow Allah or Mohammed:
You follow the consensus of your Scholars

You have a flair for having the same thing repeated isn't it?

So you're saying that if Allah can be seen, then maybe He has some form or shape. Muslims do believe that Allah will be seen on the Day of Resurrection, but that doesn’t mean He looks like His creation or has a body like ours.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) compared seeing Allah to the clarity and ease of spotting the sun and moon, not in terms of Allah’s appearance. Seeing doesn’t mean being physically similar. Allah Himself states in the Qur’an (42:11), "There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing."

You also mentioned those Hadiths where Allah appears in a way believers don’t recognize at first, and later in a form they do. And that believers will recognize Him by His Shin. These narrations are authentic and widely accepted. Scholars explain that the description of His form and His Shin are qualities of Allah that we affirm without trying to understand how. We accept these descriptions as truths but don’t interpret them to mean Allah has a body or limbs, or that He resembles creation.

Just like we acknowledge Allah’s ability to see and hear without needing eyes or ears like ours, we also accept these attributes without trying to picture them. Regarding the Hadith “Allah created Adam in His image,” scholars like Imam Nawawi and even Ibn Taymiyyah clarified that this refers to Adam being made with a complete human form (speech, intellect, dignity) not that Allah looks like Adam or vice versa. Claiming that Allah looks human goes against the core of Islamic belief, which stresses Allah’s absolute uniqueness and that He isn’t like anything in His creation.

You also mentioned that Allah has two right hands, a face, smiles, and that He’s described in contrast to the Dajjal. These descriptions come from authentic Hadith, and scholars from early Islam warned us not to interpret them in human terms. When the Prophet pbuh said “Your Lord is not one-eyed,” it was to show that Allah is perfect and has no defects not that He looks like the Dajjal. It’s about affirming Allah’s perfection, not making a comparison.

You say that Muslims follow scholars instead of Allah and His Messenger. But scholars didn’t make up these beliefs. They carefully studied the Qur’an and Hadith, staying true to what the Prophet’s companions understood. They taught us to affirm what Allah and His Messenger said, without likening Allah to anything, denying His attributes, or speculating about how they work. The reason Muslims don’t say Allah is a body or has a shape isn’t because we reject the Hadith, but because the Prophet pbuh and the Qur’an warned us never to compare Allah to creation.

Scholars have preserved that warning. When you say the Hadith are “haunting for Islam,” you’re assuming they mean Allah has a human-like form, but that’s not what the Prophet intended or what the earliest Muslims thought. So yes, Muslims believe that Allah will be seen.

TenQ:
Sorry!
All Mohammed needed to say was
"If you are confused about the Dajjal, your Lord is NOT physical"!

But what did Mohammed say!?
1. He describes the Dajjal in detail
2. He mentioned one serious flaw in the Dajjal: as the ONE eye
3. He says: if you are still confused note that Allah doesn't have one eye!


Is the Dajjal ALMOST perfect but with a flaw?
Then why compare him with Allah!?

Yes, we believe in Allah's attributes as mentioned in the Qur’an and Hadith. But we don't describe them in physical or human terms. We accept everything Allah and His Messenger have said, and we avoid comparing the Creator with His creation. That’s the core of Tawhid — complete oneness with God.

Janosky:
In Greek, "deity" is a god or goddess,not God Almighty Yahweh.
Ephesians 3:14-15. 4:6. The followers of Jesus worshipped the God Almighty, Father (Senior) of all,not a deity.

IYKYK.

Janosky, you claim you were a Father🤔but were you one without a child? 👀

If you insist that God is an eternal Father then by your logic this fails. He needs to have an "Eternal Son" before He can be called "Eternal Father".

Your Fatherhood is as old as your "child"!
Hence your God, wasn't an eternal Father. You have added to the list of worrisome contradictions of your God.

TenQ, that's how it has become. We can't say anything 👀 critical to their beliefs. One of the reasons, I have left their section altogether. It's just 🤦🏾‍♂️.

Thanks, for the submission. You have totally dissected their book. No one could have done any better. More grease to your elbow.

As for your opponent, he is being intellectually dishonest. No one, points to the Sun and then you intrepret it as clarity.

I can't point to the world cup and someone will reintrepret it as atmosphere 🤦🏾‍♂️. The context doesn't warrant such re-intrepretation! This is the only way they can patch up the inherent contradiction of these with the standard narrative!

Hello everyone the bible discussion has started


https://www.nairaland.com/8486945/bible-challenge-trinity-boomark-image123

Here is the general discussion link
https://www.nairaland.com/8484151/bible-challenge-prove-trinity-falsehood

Ohyoudidnt:
You have a flair for having the same thing repeated isn't it?

I didn't even repeat anything. I just showed you two similar Hadiths because you don't answer direct questions. The truth usually has to be forced out of you before you acknowledge it.

Ohyoudidnt:
So you're saying that if Allah can be seen, then maybe He has some form or shape. Muslims do believe that Allah will be seen on the Day of Resurrection, but that doesn’t mean He looks like His creation or has a body like ours.

Good.
If Allah can be seen, he MUST necessarily have a SHAPE!

Note that my argument isn't about whether Allah hooks like us humans (even though this is true).
My goal is to help you admit that Allah has a shape...In don't care how Allah looks like.

Is Allah's shape (the one you will see on the daynof resurrection TEMPORAL or ETERNAL ?

Ohyoudidnt:
The Prophet (peace be upon him) compared seeing Allah to the clarity and ease of spotting the sun and moon, not in terms of Allah’s appearance. Seeing doesn’t mean being physically similar. Allah Himself states in the Qur’an (42:11), "There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing."

You also mentioned those Hadiths where Allah appears in a way believers don’t recognize at first, and later in a form they do. And that believers will recognize Him by His Shin. These narrations are authentic and widely accepted. Scholars explain that the description of His form and His Shin are qualities of Allah that we affirm without trying to understand how. We accept these descriptions as truths but don’t interpret them to mean Allah has a body or limbs, or that He resembles creation.

Aren't you wilfully DENYING obvious TRUTHS by refusing to examine it?

It's like saying that President Tinubu is a White Caucasian Man in spite of the evidence with the excuse that in my household, we don't look at skin colour!

Ohyoudidnt:
Just like we acknowledge Allah’s ability to see and hear without needing eyes or ears like ours, we also accept these attributes without trying to picture them. Regarding the Hadith “Allah created Adam in His image,” scholars like Imam Nawawi and even Ibn Taymiyyah clarified that this refers to Adam being made with a complete human form (speech, intellect, dignity) not that Allah looks like Adam or vice versa. Claiming that Allah looks human goes against the core of Islamic belief, which stresses Allah’s absolute uniqueness and that He isn’t like anything in His creation.

If Allah never mentioned that he created Adam with his two hands, you may be able to wriggle out but Allah's inclusion of the qualifier TWO fixed Allah's words as literal

Quran 38:75
"He said, ‘O Iblis! What prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My two hands? Are you arrogant, or are you among the exalted?’

Ohyoudidnt:
You also mentioned that Allah has two right hands, a face, smiles, and that He’s described in contrast to the Dajjal. These descriptions come from authentic Hadith, and scholars from early Islam warned us not to interpret them in human terms. When the Prophet pbuh said “Your Lord is not one-eyed,” it was to show that Allah is perfect and has no defects not that He looks like the Dajjal. It’s about affirming Allah’s perfection, not making a comparison.

How else would you understand what it means to SMILE if not in reference to human smiling because of all creations, ONLY humans smile and a SMILE is a physical expression of the FACE.

Allah's face according to your prophet is like Adam's face, thus the link is established.

Your scholars do NOT want you to examine the FALSEHOODS in their theology, thus, they don't want you to ask any questions.

Don't forget that the same questions you don't ask your scholars is what you use to claim the falsehood of Christianity!

How will you feel if someone sells a PLOT of land to you and ask you not to ask questions about the document he gave you?

Could such a seller be a 419?

Ohyoudidnt:
You say that Muslims follow scholars instead of Allah and His Messenger. But scholars didn’t make up these beliefs. They carefully studied the Qur’an and Hadith, staying true to what the Prophet’s companions understood. They taught us to affirm what Allah and His Messenger said, without likening Allah to anything, denying His attributes, or speculating about how they work. The reason Muslims don’t say Allah is a body or has a shape isn’t because we reject the Hadith, but because the Prophet pbuh and the Qur’an warned us never to compare Allah to creation.

Scholars have preserved that warning. When you say the Hadith are “haunting for Islam,” you’re assuming they mean Allah has a human-like form, but that’s not what the Prophet intended or what the earliest Muslims thought. So yes, Muslims believe that Allah will be seen.

Check sir!
The whole of Islam is following
1. Your Scholars as a first priority
2. Mohammed as a second priority
3. Allah as a third priority

#In the Qur'an, Allah say pray THREE times: how many times do you pray? FIVE!

#In the Quran, Allah say do Mutah: you say Mohammed abrogated Mutah so you do not do it!

#Allah and Mohammed believes in the Preservation of the Injeel and Torah: your Muslim scholars say NO, that they are corrupted!

#Allah accuses people of the book as taking their Rabbis and Monks as LORDS instead of Allah AND the Messiah. But your scholars rewrote it to exclude the Messiah as LORD!

#Allah say that ALL Muslims must enter Hell Fire at least for some time. Your Islamic scholars created the Bridge of Sirat

The list goes on and on!
Who truely do you believe as a first priority?
Allah or your scholars?

Ohyoudidnt:
Yes, we believe in Allah's attributes as mentioned in the Qur’an and Hadith. But we don't describe them in physical or human terms. We accept everything Allah and His Messenger have said, and we avoid comparing the Creator with His creation. That’s the core of Tawhid — complete oneness with God.

You don't have to describe them in human terms: Allah already did and, that's the point.

When Allah and your prophet has spoken, do you think it is important to value the opinion of your scholars?

Boomark:
THE FATHER IS ONE AND THE ONLY TRUE GOD. TRINITY IS A FALSE DOCTRINE

Trinity doctrine is formed based on capital letter G and small letter g in the word God/god. It is hanging at the mercy of wrong and right interpreters. It is not based on what God said about himself, or what Christ said about God and himself, or on what the apostles said and know about God and Christ Jesus. Let us see what Christ said and confirmed by himself. Know that Jesus Christ is a God but not the God Almighty and not his equal. Only the antichrist will reject the words of Jesus Christ.

ONE GOD, HE IS THE FATHER

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 NIrV
[5] There may be so-called gods either in heaven or on earth. In fact, there are many “gods” and many “lords.” [6] BUT FOR US THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. HE IS THE FATHER. All things came from him, and we live for him. AND THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD. HE IS JESUS CHRIST. All things came because of him, and we live because of him.

Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV
[4] Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:


NKJV
Act 3:13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [Him] go.

Hebrews 1:1-2 HCSB
[1] Long ago God spoke to the fathers by the prophets at different times and in different ways. [2] In these last days, He has spoken to us by His Son. God has appointed Him heir of all things and made the universe through Him.

Jesus Christ (the word was God, John 1:1) is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who raised him (Jesus) from the dead. He (Jesus) is not the God who spoke through the prophets to their fathers and now speaks to us through Jesus Christ. He (Jesus) is not the God who was able to save him (Jesus) from death.This is the God they know as God Almighty, Exodus 6:3. He alone bears the name JEHOVAH. LORD was used to replace JEHOVAH, go and verify.

Psalm 83:18 KJV
[18] That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, Art the Most High over all the earth.

THE ONLY TRUE GOD

1 Timothy 6:16 NIrV
[16] God is the only one who can’t die. He lives in light that no one can get close to. No one has seen him. No one can see him. Honor and power belong to him forever. Amen.

John 17:3 NIrV
[3] And what is eternal life? It is knowing you, The Only True God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

This is the only true God. He alone has immortality and cannot die. Nobody has seen or can see him. Jesus was seen by many people. He died, was buried, and his God raised him up. See also 1 John 5:20.

JESUS HAS A GOD. HIS GOD IS THE FATHER.

We all, including Jesus Christ have one God and that God is the Father. From Ephesians 1:1-3&17, 1 Peter 1:3, and all the first chapters of the epistles, you will see them thanking, "the God of our Lord Jesus Christ," Let see what Jesus said by himself. His sayings are true.

John 20:17 NIrV
[17] Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me. I have not yet ascended to the Father. Instead, go to those who believe in me. Tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

Jesus clearly told us that the Father is his God and our God. If you still doubt and reject his words because he was still on earth, even though he has died and was resurrected, let us go to revelation when he is in heaven.

3) Revelation 3:12 NIrV
[12] Here is what I will do for anyone who has victory over sin. I will make that person a pillar in the temple of my God. They will never leave it again. I will write the name of my God on them. I will write the name of the city of my God on them. This is the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God. I will also write my new name on them.

Who will argue or reject what Christ said by himself. Jesus in heaven, clearly telling us about his God who created and own everything and made him an heir of everything. If Jesus is God Almighty, who then is his God? We know what it means for someone to have a God he serve. Nobody can claim or say they are equal to their God or god.

John 14:28 NIrV
[28] “You heard me say, ‘I am going away. And I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad I am going to the Father. The Father is greater than I am.

Jesus said it himself, that his Father is great than him. He never told us that he is equal to God Almighty his God. Those who believe that are on their own.

JESUS IS A SERVANT OF GOD

Matthew 12:15-18 HCSB
[15] When Jesus became aware of this, He withdrew from there. Huge crowds followed Him, and He healed them all. [16] He warned them not to make Him known, [17] so that what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: [18] Here is My Servant whom I have chosen, My beloved in whom My soul delights; I will put My Spirit on Him, and He will proclaim justice to the nations...


Isaiah 42:1-4 HCSB
[1] “This is My Servant; I strengthen Him, this is My Chosen One; I delight in Him. I have put My Spirit on Him; He will bring justice to the nations. [2] He will not cry out or shout or make His voice heard in the streets. [3] He will not break a bruised reed, and He will not put out a smoldering wick; He will faithfully bring justice. [4] He will not grow weak or be discouraged until He has established justice on earth. The islands will wait for His instruction.”

Jesus in Matthew 12:15-21 confirmed what was written in Isaiah 42:1-4, that he is a servant of God Almighty. Who will disagree or reject what Jesus confirmed? A servant is not equal or greater than his master.

Acts 4:27, 30 HCSB
[27] “For, in fact, in this city both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, assembled together against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, [30] while You stretch out Your hand for healing, signs, and wonders to be performed through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

The apostles made powerful prayer to God Almighty in the name of his holy servant. Jesus reconciled us back to God so we can go to God his Father through him. He didn't tell us to throw God away. These scriptures showa that he is God's servant: Act 3:13, 26, Isaiah 53:1-12, Isaiah 49:5-6 was confirmed in Acts 13:46-47.

Jesus has the fear of God whom he serves in him, but God Almighty fears no one. The spirit of God was the one helping him. See Zechariah 3:8, Isaiah 11:1-3, Acts 13:22-23

Acts 2:36 NLT
[36] “So let everyone in Israel know for certain that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, to be both Lord and Messiah!”

If you read from verse 14, you will see that God made him every thing he is.

Jesus is subject to God and will hand over everything to God in the end. Read this carefully.

1 Corinthians 15:24, 27-28 HCSB
[24] Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power.
[27] For God has put everything under His feet. But when it says “everything” is put under Him, it is obvious that He who puts everything under Him is the exception. [28] And when everything is subject to Christ, then the Son Himself will also be subject to the One who subjected everything to Him, so that God may be all in all.

JESUS IS A PROPHET

Deuteronomy 18:15, 18 HCSB
[15] “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. [18] I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

See also Acts 3:22-23, 7:37.

Jesus Christ is a prophet serving God Almighty. He is a mediator between God and man.

Jesus confirmed that he says things exactly as God commands him. As the prophecy in Deuteronomy puts it, "God will command him on what to say." He will not say things by his own authority or will.

John 12:49-50 NLT
[49] I don’t speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it. [50] And I know his commands lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells me to say.”

See John 7:16, 8:28, 14:10.

God Almighty is not a prophet but prophets are his servants who say what they hear from him. All the prophecies in Revelation was given to Jesus Christ by God to say and show what he received from God.

JESUS IS A GREAT HIGH PRIEST OF GOD FOREVER

What the high priests on earth does for God is what God has chosen and appointed Christ to do for him in heaven forever. Hebrew 5:4,5,10, 7:28. He is a priest forever, saving and interceding for those who come to God through him, Hebrew 7:24-25.

Hebrew 4:14-15, 5:1-10, 7:1-28, 9:11-14.

GOD WITH GOD. JOHN 1:1, 18.

John 1:1 Said, Jesus was God and he was with God. In the same John 1:18, it says that no one has ever seen God. This is to show that there are people in heaven who are called Gods, but they all have God, the Father, who no one has seen, as their God. 1 Timothy 6:16 didn't tell us that people have seen God and that he is Jesus Christ, who died and was resurrected. God Almighty (the Father) cannot die.

Philippians 2:6 HCSB
[6] who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

The form of the sons of the Most High in Psalm 82:6 is not the same as the form of the gods of Babylon in Isaiah 46 and not the same with those who are called gods in heaven. That they were all called gods doesn't mean they are one, equal, and the same.

Jesus is a God base on the authority given to him by the Father. As Moses was a God/god to Pharaoh. Even God is himself was called gods in 1 Samuel 4:6-8. An idol in Acts 17:23 was referred to as the unknown God, KJV, NIV, LSB, AMP, etc (few versions used god). We are looking at who is who here. Also see this heading in your bible in Isaiah 46 "Gods of Babylon" (not gods). Jesus told us the Father is the only true God. He never said he himself is the only true God. This is why those who depend on capital letter 'G' have fallen away from the truth.

KING OF KINGS

God as King of kings: 1 Tim 6:15, Dan 2:47

Jesus as King of kings: Rev 17:14, Rev 19:16.

Nebuchadnezzar as King of kings: Dan 2:37. God made Nebuchadnezzar king of kings.

These three persons are not trinity or equal just because they bear king of kings. Nebuchadnezzar being in the form of king of kings does not make him equal to God. Titles does not determine who is who.

ALPHA AND OMEGA

It was mentioned for God in Revelation 1:8, and 21:6. For Jesus in Revelation 22:13.

This title does not make Jesus equal to his God and it does not mean that Jesus Christ is the same person as God the Father. Just as Nebuchadnezzar is not the person called Jesus Christ. And there is no where it says that this is reserved for God Almighty alone. We have saviours in heaven and on earth but God almighty is the true saviour who sends all saviours to man.

Revelation 1:1 GNT
[1] This book is the record of the events that Jesus Christ revealed. God gave him this revelation in order to show to his servants what must happen very soon. Christ made these things known to his servant John by sending his angel to him,

Revelation came from God Almighty and he gave it to Jesus to show people. The God who said in the beginning, "let us make man..." is still the same God that designed the revelation of the end which was given to Jesus. God is the brain behind everything.

I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE

I and my Father are one. One what if I may ask? The bible made this clear but those who are believing a lie have continued to use this to misinterpret the word of God.

John 17:22 GNT
[22] I gave them the same glory you gave me, so that they may be one, just as you and I are one:

Just as you and I are one, let them be one. It is like saying that husband and wife became one. They are not equal because the head of the woman is the man and the head of Christ is God, 1 Corinthians 11:3.

Trinity doctrine is rooted in gross misinterpretation of the scripture and falsehood to turn people away from the only true God.

Matthew 7:21-23 HCSB
[21] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord! ’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. [22] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name? ’ [23] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

From Matthew 7:21-23, you will see that Christ the holy servant of God is not interested in what you claim or think you are doing for him to please him. The only thing that pleases him is the will of God. Do the will of God the Father whom he serves else you are rejecting him and the Father who sent and commanded him to say exactly what he commands.

THE ANTICHRIST

Anyone who rejects and do not believe words from Jesus Christ have rejected him. Those who rejects him have rejected God because those words came from God and they have made God a liar, John 12:49-50. Those who rejected him are antichrist, 2 John 1:7,9, 1 John 5:10.

I am BOOMARK, the slayer of false doctrines with double edged sword 🗡️

I wanted to reply to all these, but the first point you made was that Jesus is God, but not God Almighty. I need to understand your position well. What do you mean by the word "God"? How many Gods di we have? Jesus being God, do you think he should be worshipped?

Is the point of difference only the claim that Jesus is not the Almighty? Only his Father is Almighty?

Gabrielshow24:
TenQ, that's how it has become. We can't say anything 👀 critical to their beliefs. One of the reasons, I have left their section altogether. It's just 🤦🏾‍♂️.

Thanks, for the submission. You have totally dissected their book. No one could have done any better. More grease to your elbow.

As for your opponent, he is being intellectually dishonest. No one, points to the Sun and then you intrepret it as clarity.

I can't point to the world cup and someone will reintrepret it as atmosphere 🤦🏾‍♂️. The context doesn't warrant such re-intrepretation! This is the only way they can patch up the inherent contradiction of these with the standard narrative!

Islam is a LIE that Muslims try their best to protect by telling covering lies. They honestly wish their lies would be true at the end of the day BUT this is an impossibility.

The Rules Seun is using in applying AI to flag post is completely unfair to the truth.
I have been shadowbanned to a point that for every post I make, I have to check if it has been banned or not. Thus, I hardly make original posts again.

I guess this is Seun's objective. This will end up being counterproductive to Nairaland

Sand2022:
I wanted to reply to all these, but the first point you made was that Jesus is God, but not God Almighty. I need to understand your position well. What do you mean by the word "God"? How many Gods di we have? Jesus being God, do you think he should be worshipped?

Is the point of difference only the claim that Jesus is not the Almighty? Only his Father is Almighty?

Based on their wilful IGNORANCE, they created TWO Gods for themselves
1. The Almighty God
2. The Mighty God.

They then Demoted the Holy Spirit to a mere Influence or Power of God!

TenQ:
Based on their wilful IGNORANCE, they created TWO Gods for themselves
1. The Almighty God
2. The Mighty God.

They then Demoted the Holy Spirit to a mere Influence or Power of God!

This sounds like the position of JWs, but it doesn't appear that bookmark is a JW. So I want to understand his perspective. So all the point he is making then is that Jesus is not Almighty, but he can be worshipped?

Sand2022:
This sounds like the position of JWs, but it doesn't appear that bookmark is a JW. So I want to understand his perspective. So all the point he is making then is that Jesus is not Almighty, but he can be worshipped?

He doesn't have an handle on what his problem statement should be! That's his conundrum. He didn't define relevant concept such as "God" and he makes the mistake by asserting that "God" and "God almighty" are different! 😂

In all, he has only made a redundant point because the bible, in identity already exemplifies this. It's self refuting!

Sand2022:
This sounds like the position of JWs, but it doesn't appear that bookmark is a JW. So I want to understand his perspective. So all the point he is making then is that Jesus is not Almighty, but he can be worshipped?

It's the same misunderstanding
The same argument


They cannot fathom how YHWH can be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same time.
They cannot fathom how YHWH can be Unlimited and Limited at the same time.

This is their problem!

This is why if your ask them the Question :
if Jehovah is Omnipresent, you may be shocked with their answer .

I don't waste much time with them!

TenQ:
It's the same misunderstanding
The same argument


They cannot fathom how YHWH can be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same time.
They cannot fathom how YHWH can be Unlimited and Limited at the same time.

This is their problem!

This is why if your ask them the Question :
if Jehovah is Omnipresent, you may be shocked with their answer .

I don't waste much time with them!

I am familiar with the position of JWs, I just don't know about bookmark.

Gabrielshow24:
He doesn't have an handle on what his problem statement should be! That's his conundrum. He didn't define relevant concept such as "God" and he makes the mistake by asserting that "God" and "God almighty" are different! 😂

In all, he has only made a redundant point because the bible, in identity already exemplifies this. It's self refuting!

Ok. JWs have that view. That the word God is a title. But that it doesn't mean the individual is worshipoed. I don't know Bookmarks perspective though.

TenQ:
I didn't even repeat anything. I just showed you two similar Hadiths because you don't answer direct questions. The truth usually has to be forced out of you before you acknowledge it.


Good.
If Allah can be seen, he MUST necessarily have a SHAPE!

Note that my argument isn't about whether Allah hooks like us humans (even though this is true).
My goal is to help you admit that Allah has a shape...In don't care how Allah looks like.

Is Allah's shape (the one you will see on the daynof resurrection TEMPORAL or ETERNAL ?




Aren't you wilfully DENYING obvious TRUTHS by refusing to examine it?

It's like saying that President Tinubu is a White Caucasian Man in spite of the evidence with the excuse that in my household, we don't look at skin colour!




If Allah never mentioned that he created Adam with his two hands, you may be able to wriggle out but Allah's inclusion of the qualifier TWO fixed Allah's words as literal

Quran 38:75
"He said, ‘O Iblis! What prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My two hands? Are you arrogant, or are you among the exalted?’

1. Does Seeing Require Allah to Have a Shape?
Absolutely not. In Islamic theology, the ability to see Allah doesn’t hinge on Him having a physical form or shape as we know it. The Prophet (pbuh) explicitly mentioned, "You will see your Lord..." but left the specifics of His appearance undefined. Think of it like this: the sun and moon analogy isn’t about form but clarity. Seeing something especially in the unseen, eternal realm doesn’t demand a spatial or tangible structure. Allah is beyond comparison, yet He can still be perceived. It’s not a contradiction; it’s the reality of the divine.

2. Does Allah Have a Shape?

Hadiths do reference Allah appearing in a form, but here’s the catch: it’s not a form bound by human concepts like size, material, or features. Muslims affirm that Allah will manifest in a recognizable way, but we don’t box it into terms like "physical shape" or "body." Why? Because the Qur’an (42:11) states, "There is nothing like unto Him." So yes, He can be seen, and yes, He’ll appear in a manner believers recognize—but we don’t dive into speculative details about that form.

3. Is Allah’s Form Temporal or Eternal?

Allah’s essence is timeless and unchanging, free from the constraints of time or space. Any form He takes when appearing to believers isn’t like ours, but we’re not told whether it’s an eternal attribute or a temporary manifestation. Bottom line? We stick to what the texts say and avoid overstepping.

4. About Quran 38:75 – “My Two Hands”

Mainstream Islam doesn’t shy away from affirming that Allah mentioned "two hands." But let’s be clear: these aren’t literal, physical limbs. It’s a majestic expression of His power and favor, like when He created Adam "with His two hands"—a truth that stands apart from human comparisons. We take it at face value without reducing it to human terms.

5. The question of whether Muslims are denying obvious truths is a matter of perspective, as the Islamic faith emphasizes the transcendent and incomparable nature of Allah. Unlike tangible entities, such as human beings, Allah’s essence is beyond physical representation or direct observation. The Qur’an and Hadith explicitly state that Allah is unique, with no likeness or equal, as evidenced by verses like Surah Ash-Shura (42:11) and Surah Al-Ikhlas (112:4). These texts also affirm that human knowledge cannot fully grasp His nature. When posed with queries like, "Does Allah have a shape?" the response is nuanced: while believers may recognize His manifestations, attributing physicality to Allah is inappropriate, as it imposes limitations on His infinite and unseen reality.

I have not seen someone self refute himself like the above 😂.

Making contradictory statements with ease. 👀
How then will you see someone, if he doesn't appear in a 3-D framework 🤨? What's the essence of the exegesis when your book states two contradictory instances? Allah is beyond likeness then you use "likeness" to exhibit characteristics 🤦🏾‍♂️—It's all or nothing!

We christians accept the fact that God took on flesh thus these problems do not apply to us! Make it make sense!

You can't see clarity😂. The Quran states Allah has attributes or characteristics although they are not comparable to man's. That's the only reconciliation you can make and this defeats the anthropomorphic stance of your standard narrative! This way you can argue Allah has hands but they are not humans🤨 but it suggest inherently that he has a shape🤦🏾‍♂️,if not he won't have hands!

You are not wriggling your way out of this!

Sand2022:
Ok. JWs have that view. That the word God is a title. But that it doesn't mean the individual is worshipoed. I don't know Bookmarks perspective though.

😂No one knows either. It's just vague. He is attacking what he has not clearly defined. Perhaps, he has the trinitarian sect of Modalism, or Monarchianism, or Sabellianism, or Patripassians in mind!

Sand2022:
I am familiar with the position of JWs, I just don't know about bookmark.

It's okay!
For me, I think it's the same argument slightly different flavours!

Ohyoudidnt:
1. Does Seeing Require Allah to Have a Shape?
Absolutely not. In Islamic theology, the ability to see Allah doesn’t hinge on Him having a physical form or shape as we know it. The Prophet (pbuh) explicitly mentioned, "You will see your Lord..." but left the specifics of His appearance undefined. Think of it like this: the sun and moon analogy isn’t about form but clarity. Seeing something especially in the unseen, eternal realm doesn’t demand a spatial or tangible structure. Allah is beyond comparison, yet He can still be perceived. It’s not a contradiction; it’s the reality of the divine.

We see with our EYES, don't we?
We see when Lights from an object trajects into our eyes!

When you Muslims see Allah, will it be with your eyes or nose?
When you speak to Allah will it be with your mouth or ears?

Then, stop deceiving yourself by closing your mind to reality: If Allah Allah can be seen by mere humans, then he has a shape and light can reflect from him to your eyes.

At resurrection, will you Muslims have a body or not?

Ohyoudidnt:
2. Does Allah Have a Shape?
Hadiths do reference Allah appearing in a form, but here’s the catch: it’s not a form bound by human concepts like size, material, or features. Muslims affirm that Allah will manifest in a recognizable way, but we don’t box it into terms like "physical shape" or "body." Why? Because the Qur’an (42:11) states, "There is nothing like unto Him." So yes, He can be seen, and yes, He’ll appear in a manner believers recognize—but we don’t dive into speculative details about that form.

My argument was not that Allah has a human form: he could as well be a transformer, I don't care.

The important thing is that Allah has a SHAPE!

Do you still contest this?

Ohyoudidnt:
3. Is Allah’s Form Temporal or Eternal?
Allah’s essence is timeless and unchanging, free from the constraints of time or space. Any form He takes when appearing to believers isn’t like ours, but we’re not told whether it’s an eternal attribute or a temporary manifestation. Bottom line? We stick to what the texts say and avoid overstepping.

If Allah's shape is his essence, Will Allah take up a form that is Temporal?

You do not want to delve into it because your theology breaks down.

Let me help you: Allah is so great that it is beneath him to enter his creation: Is this a true statement?

Ohyoudidnt:
4. About Quran 38:75 – “My Two Hands”
Mainstream Islam doesn’t shy away from affirming that Allah mentioned "two hands." But let’s be clear: these aren’t literal, physical limbs. It’s a majestic expression of His power and favor, like when He created Adam "with His two hands"—a truth that stands apart from human comparisons. We take it at face value without reducing it to human terms.

For the thousand time: My objective is not to compare Allah's hands with human hands.

What is a hand?
A hand is an appendage used primarily for holding, grabbing or touching things rather than walking.

This is what Allah says he has: two hands with which he created Adam!
Show me with evidence either from Allah or Mohammed that Allah's hands are not literal?

Ohyoudidnt:
5. The question of whether Muslims are denying obvious truths is a matter of perspective, as the Islamic faith emphasizes the transcendent and incomparable nature of Allah. Unlike tangible entities, such as human beings, Allah’s essence is beyond physical representation or direct observation. The Qur’an and Hadith explicitly state that Allah is unique, with no likeness or equal, as evidenced by verses like Surah Ash-Shura (42:11) and Surah Al-Ikhlas (112:4). These texts also affirm that human knowledge cannot fully grasp His nature. When posed with queries like, "Does Allah have a shape?" the response is nuanced: while believers may recognize His manifestations, attributing physicality to Allah is inappropriate, as it imposes limitations on His infinite and unseen reality.

Allah could be unique in the sense that
1. He is bigger , taller and stronger than us
2. He is older than us humans
3. He has a complexion that is different from human complexions
4. His two hands are right hands

All these are obvious differences between Allah and us.

The problem of Muslims is that they shut down their reasoning facilities in other to avoid the Truth!

It's like you asking me the Question
Question:
TenQ, is the addition of 4 oranges to 5 oranges equal to 9 oranges?

My Response:
You see, we don't ask ourselves these kinds of questions! Human knowledge cannot grasp these answer because we don't even have the oranges at home! We don't overstep our boundaries beyond the oranges we have are ripe or unripe? It is inappropriate to ask such questions as we don't even have ripe oranges with us?

If these look silly to you, then just imagine how it looks to me!

These are problem of Islam. Islam cannot withstand scrutiny: all your claims always break down with questions

This is probably why Allah says:


Quran 5:101
"O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has pardoned that which is past; and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing."

The next verse gives the reason
Qur'an 5:102
"A people asked such [questions] before you; then they became thereby disbelievers."

Who are these people of old who became disbelievers because they asked questions?

So, you swallow LIES hook, line and sinker because you wouldn't ask questions that will set you free!

Only the Truth you know and imbibe will set you free.

John 8:32:
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”"

Matt 7:7:
"Ask, and it shall be given to you. Seek, and you shall find. Knock, and it shall be opened to you."

God want you to ASK Questions sir!

TenQ:
We see with our EYES, don't we?
We see when Lights from an object trajects into our eyes!

When you Muslims see Allah, will it be with your eyes or nose?
When you speak to Allah will it be with your mouth or ears?

Then, stop deceiving yourself by closing your mind to reality: If Allah Allah can be seen by mere humans, then he has a shape and light can reflect from him to your eyes.

At resurrection, will you Muslims have a body or not?


My argument was not that Allah has a human form: he could as well be a transformer, I don't care.

The important thing is that Allah has a SHAPE!

Do you still contest this?


If Allah's shape is his essence, Will Allah take up a form that is Temporal?

You do not want to delve into it because your theology breaks down.

Let me help you: Allah is so great that it is beneath him to enter his creation: Is this a true statement?


For the thousand time: My objective is not to compare Allah's hands with human hands.

What is a hand?
A hand is an appendage used primarily for holding, grabbing or touching things rather than walking.

This is what Allah says he has: two hands with which he created Adam!
Show me with evidence either from Allah or Mohammed that Allah's hands are not literal?



Allah could be unique in the sense that
1. He is bigger , taller and stronger than us
2. He is older than us humans
3. He has a complexion that is different from human complexions
4. His two hands are right hands

All these are obvious differences between Allah and us.

The problem of Muslims is that they shut down their reasoning facilities in other to avoid the Truth!

It's like you asking me the Question
Question:
TenQ, is the addition of 4 oranges to 5 oranges equal to 9 oranges?

My Response:
You see, we don't ask ourselves these kinds of questions! Human knowledge cannot grasp these answer because we don't even have the oranges at home! We don't overstep our boundaries beyond the oranges we have are ripe or unripe? It is inappropriate to ask such questions as we don't even have ripe oranges with us?

If these look silly to you, then just imagine how it looks to me!

These are problem of Islam. Islam cannot withstand scrutiny: all your claims always break down with questions

This is probably why Allah says:


Quran 5:101
"O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has pardoned that which is past; and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing."

The next verse gives the reason
Qur'an 5:102
"A people asked such [questions] before you; then they became thereby disbelievers."

Who are these people of old who became disbelievers because they asked questions?

So, you swallow LIES hook, line and sinker because you wouldn't ask questions that will set you free!

Only the Truth you know and imbibe will set you free.

John 8:32:
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”"

Matt 7:7:
"Ask, and it shall be given to you. Seek, and you shall find. Knock, and it shall be opened to you."

God want you to ASK Questions sir!

1. Can Allah Be Seen, and Does That Require a Shape?

Yes, Muslims affirm based on authentic Hadith that believers will see Allah on the Day of Resurrection. For example, the Prophet pbuh said you will see your Lord just as you see the moon on a clear night.(Sahih al-Bukhari 7439)

However, this does not mean Allah must have a shape that conforms to the laws of light, eyes, and space. The Prophet pbuh compared the clarity of vision not the form of Allah to the clarity of the moon or sun.

Furthermore, vision in the Hereafter is not like vision in this world. Just as the nature of Paradise, its pleasures, and the bodies of the resurrected are unlike anything we know now, the act of seeing Allah is also unique. It does not require light, retinas, or reflection, as those are worldly mechanisms. Allah, being the Creator of light and vision, is not subject to them.

As the Qur’an declares:Vision cannot grasp Him, but He grasps all vision.
(Qur’an 6:103)

To insist otherwise is to impose created limitations on the Creator, which is both theologically and rationally flawed.

2. Does Allah Have a Shape or Form?

Certain Hadith mention that Allah will come in a form that believers do not recognize at first, then later in a form they will recognize. Critics often seize on this to claim that Allah must have a shape.

Islamic scholars from the earliest generations responded clearly and
we affirm what is revealed, including that Allah will come in a way believers recognize.

But we do not define this as a shape in the material sense.

We do not imagine dimensions, size, light, or shadow.

And we do not speculate beyond the text.


The term shape in this context is part of the unseen and is affirmed without likening it to any human or material reality.

To say that Allah must have a shape simply because He is seen is like saying the soul must have a skeleton because we believe it can feel. It is a false analogy based on worldly assumptions.

3. The Issue of Two Hands in Qur’an 38:75

One of the most cited verses by critics is What prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My two hands? (Qur’an 38:75)

Muslims do not deny this verse. Instead, we affirm it in a manner befitting Allah without imagining, likening, or interpreting it through human experience.

The mistake critics make is assuming that because humans use hands to grasp, Allah’s hands must serve the same purpose and therefore imply a physical body. But Allah has attributes unique to Him, and nothing is like Him.
There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
(Qur’an 42:11)

So, while we affirm Allah has two hands as mentioned in revelation, we do not define or describe them. We do not say they are limbs, appendages, or tools, nor do we say they are metaphorical.They are real, as Allah intends, but not like ours in any way.

4. Is Allah’s Form Eternal or Temporal?

Another question often raised is if Allah’s form is temporary or eternal?

Allah’s essence is eternal, and He does not change. If He chooses to appear to His creation in a way they can recognize, it is by His will, and not because He has taken on a new shape or has been limited by time.

Islamic theology carefully avoids such philosophical traps. We affirm what Allah reveals about Himself without asking how.
Asking if His form is temporal assumes He has a physical body in the first place which Islam explicitly rejects.

5. Do Muslims Avoid Reasoning?

No. Islam encourages deep reasoning, but always within the boundaries of revelation. Islam makes a critical distinction between:

Sound reason that submits to revelation,

And speculative reasoning that imagines Allah based on creation?

The Qur’an itself refutes blind speculation:
And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge.
(Qur’an 17:36)

Faith in Islam is not blind. It is built upon reason, evidence, and a deep awareness that human logic has limits when dealing with the Divine. As Imam Mālik famously said Allah’s rising above the Throne is known, how is unknown, belief in it is obligatory, and asking about it is a bid'ah (blameworthy innovation).

6. The Meaning of Qur’an 5:101–102

Critics often quote:
Do not ask about things which, if made apparent to you, would distress you...” (Qur’an 5:101)

This is not a command to avoid all questions. It refers to harmful, speculative, or rebellious questioning, like what some people did to past prophets out of mockery or stubbornness.

Islam welcomes sincere, honest inquiry. In fact, the Qur’an commands believers to reflect, contemplate, and seek knowledge but within the scope of what Allah has revealed.

Sand2022:
I wanted to reply to all these, but the first point you made was that Jesus is God, but not God Almighty. I need to understand your position well. What do you mean by the word "God"? How many Gods di we have? Jesus being God, do you think he should be worshipped?

Is the point of difference only the claim that Jesus is not the Almighty? Only his Father is Almighty?

You don't need to reply all of them with a general statement. Just chose anyone you like and say it is false backed with scriptures.

Yes to the worship. I believe you know worship has many meanings like bowing or kneeling before someone.

Boomark:
You don't need to reply all of them with a general statement. Just chose anyone you like and say it is false backed with scriptures.

Yes to the worship. I believe you know worship has many meanings like bowing or kneeling before someone.

In your view Jesus is a Deity since he receives worship. Would that be correct?

Ohyoudidnt:
1. Can Allah Be Seen, and Does That Require a Shape?

Yes, Muslims affirm based on authentic Hadith that believers will see Allah on the Day of Resurrection. For example, the Prophet pbuh said you will see your Lord just as you see the moon on a clear night.(Sahih al-Bukhari 7439)

However, this does not mean Allah must have a shape that conforms to the laws of light, eyes, and space. The Prophet pbuh compared the clarity of vision not the form of Allah to the clarity of the moon or sun.

Furthermore, vision in the Hereafter is not like vision in this world. Just as the nature of Paradise, its pleasures, and the bodies of the resurrected are unlike anything we know now, the act of seeing Allah is also unique. It does not require light, retinas, or reflection, as those are worldly mechanisms. Allah, being the Creator of light and vision, is not subject to them.

As the Qur’an declares:Vision cannot grasp Him, but He grasps all vision.
(Qur’an 6:103)

To insist otherwise is to impose created limitations on the Creator, which is both theologically and rationally flawed.

Good that you finally acknowledged that Allah can be seen.

I am sure that you will agree with me that the difference between our senses here and in paradise is that our senses would be heightened.
Colours would be brighter, Sights would be sharper and clearer, Hearing would be perfect, Pleasures would be heightened etc

Thus, you Muslims would be able the see your Allah as clearly as younger the sun or moon. Al-Jalalayn and Ibn Kathir explained that the exception for Qur'an 6:103 will be in paradise. The believers will see Him with their own eyes, effortlessly and without any difficulty.

Imam Abu Hanifah states:
"The people of Paradise shall truly see Allah without manner, resemblance, or direction. The believers shall see Him in Paradise with their own eyes, without any distance between Him and them."



Do you know that ANYTHING that can be seen is a subset of the extended Universe and thus FINITE?

Ohyoudidnt:
2. Does Allah Have a Shape or Form?

Certain Hadith mention that Allah will come in a form that believers do not recognize at first, then later in a form they will recognize. Critics often seize on this to claim that Allah must have a shape.

Islamic scholars from the earliest generations responded clearly and
we affirm what is revealed, including that Allah will come in a way believers recognize.

But we do not define this as a shape in the material sense.

We do not imagine dimensions, size, light, or shadow.

And we do not speculate beyond the text.


The term shape in this context is part of the unseen and is affirmed without likening it to any human or material reality.

To say that Allah must have a shape simply because He is seen is like saying the soul must have a skeleton because we believe it can feel. It is a false analogy based on worldly assumptions.

My argument is NOT about the LOOKS of Allah but that he has a FORM or SHAPE!

Are you aware that ANYTHING that has a shape is BOUNDED in Form (has a limited dimension)?

Furthermore,
Allah seems to have at least TWO forms or shapes which I want to believe are both eternal as they are of his essence.

So, what happened to Allah's real/original body when he appeared to you Muslims with a strange shape? Did this body die? And what happened to the strange shape of Allah when he came back to you Muslims in the shape you know?

Ohyoudidnt:
3. The Issue of Two Hands in Qur’an 38:75

One of the most cited verses by critics is What prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My two hands? (Qur’an 38:75)

Muslims do not deny this verse. Instead, we affirm it in a manner befitting Allah without imagining, likening, or interpreting it through human experience.

The mistake critics make is assuming that because humans use hands to grasp, Allah’s hands must serve the same purpose and therefore imply a physical body. But Allah has attributes unique to Him, and nothing is like Him.
There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
(Qur’an 42:11)

So, while we affirm Allah has two hands as mentioned in revelation, we do not define or describe them. We do not say they are limbs, appendages, or tools, nor do we say they are metaphorical.They are real, as Allah intends, but not like ours in any way.

Unfortunately, what you do or do not do is immaterial in this case: why!?
Because Allah defined exactly what he used his hands to do.

Allah used his two hands to mold Adam.

Quran 15:26
"And We did certainly create man from sounding clay, from mud molded into shape."

Otherwise, define what a HAND is and compare the functionality with respect to moulding clay/mud.

DENYING the Truth doesn't make you right: it actually guarantees that you are wrong!

Ohyoudidnt:
4. Is Allah’s Form Eternal or Temporal?

Another question often raised is if Allah’s form is temporary or eternal?

Allah’s essence is eternal, and He does not change. If He chooses to appear to His creation in a way they can recognize, it is by His will, and not because He has taken on a new shape or has been limited by time.

Islamic theology carefully avoids such philosophical traps. We affirm what Allah reveals about Himself without asking how.
Asking if His form is temporal assumes He has a physical body in the first place which Islam explicitly rejects.

These are not philosophical traps, they are pitfalls in your theology!

*Allah is ONE
*Allah cannot enter into his creation
Yet we see that Allah puts on a different form from his original

Then, we want to ask
What happened to Allah's real/original body when he appeared to you Muslims with a strange shape? Did this body die? And what happened to the strange shape of Allah when he came back to you Muslims in the shape you know?

Ohyoudidnt:
5. Do Muslims Avoid Reasoning?

No. Islam encourages deep reasoning, but always within the boundaries of revelation. Islam makes a critical distinction between:

Sound reason that submits to revelation,

And speculative reasoning that imagines Allah based on creation?

The Qur’an itself refutes blind speculation:
And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge.
(Qur’an 17:36)

Faith in Islam is not blind. It is built upon reason, evidence, and a deep awareness that human logic has limits when dealing with the Divine. As Imam Mālik famously said Allah’s rising above the Throne is known, how is unknown, belief in it is obligatory, and asking about it is a bid'ah (blameworthy innovation).

Of course you do avoid deep reasoning.
You will note that most of my questions were answered with

We don't answer such questions because they are philosophical traps!
OR
We do not imagine size or dimensions or etc
OR
We do not speculate beyond the text

Yours is what is called BLIND faith my friend!

A blind faith is a trust based on no credible evidence such kinds of faith are based purely on emotions!

Ohyoudidnt:
6. The Meaning of Qur’an 5:101–102

Critics often quote:
Do not ask about things which, if made apparent to you, would distress you...” (Qur’an 5:101)

This is not a command to avoid all questions. It refers to harmful, speculative, or rebellious questioning, like what some people did to past prophets out of mockery or stubbornness.

Islam welcomes sincere, honest inquiry. In fact, the Qur’an commands believers to reflect, contemplate, and seek knowledge but within the scope of what Allah has revealed.

Who are those who asked questions and thus became disbelievers?

Why do you think Allah says that knowing the TRUTH could cause you distress ?

Quran 5:101
"O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has pardoned that which is past; and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing."


1. Shouldn't you want to know the TRUTH even if it would distress you?
2. Are you aware that the end of any Truth that will cause you distress is NEVER good?
3. Are you aware that when you know the Truths that could cause you distress, you have an opportunity to avoid the Harm coming to you?
4. Would you call anyone who withhold a Truth that would cause you distress if you know about it a friend or an enemy?

My brother, I beg you to THINK about this verse.

Qur'an 19:71-72
"And there is none of you except he will come to it (Hell). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."
1. If the Truth is that you will certainly enter hell fire (even if it is temporarily), would it distress you?
2. Knowing that you will enter the fire even if it is temporary is certainly NOT Good because the time you will spend is undefined!
3. Wouldn't this knowledge help you to begin to seek for a way of avoiding this calamity?
4. What will you call anyone who says you will pass over the bridge of Sirat or you will fly over hell contrary to Qur'an 19:71-72: would such be a friend!?

TenQ:
Good that you finally acknowledged that Allah can be seen.

I am sure that you will agree with me that the difference between our senses here and in paradise is that our senses would be heightened.
Colours would be brighter, Sights would be sharper and clearer, Hearing would be perfect, Pleasures would be heightened etc

Thus, you Muslims would be able the see your Allah as clearly as younger the sun or moon. Al-Jalalayn and Ibn Kathir explained that the exception for Qur'an 6:103 will be in paradise. The believers will see Him with their own eyes, effortlessly and without any difficulty.

Imam Abu Hanifah states:
"The people of Paradise shall truly see Allah without manner, resemblance, or direction. The believers shall see Him in Paradise with their own eyes, without any distance between Him and them."



Do you know that ANYTHING that can be seen is a subset of the extended Universe and thus FINITE?


My argument is NOT about the LOOKS of Allah but that he has a FORM or SHAPE!

Are you aware that ANYTHING that has a shape is BOUNDED in Form (has a limited dimension)?

Furthermore,
Allah seems to have at least TWO forms or shapes which I want to believe are both eternal as they are of his essence.

So, what happened to Allah's real/original body when he appeared to you Muslims with a strange shape? Did this body die? And what happened to the strange shape of Allah when he came back to you Muslims in the shape you know?




Unfortunately, what you do or do not do is immaterial in this case: why!?
Because Allah defined exactly what he used his hands to do.

Allah used his two hands to mold Adam.

Quran 15:26
"And We did certainly create man from sounding clay, from mud molded into shape."

Otherwise, define what a HAND is and compare the functionality with respect to moulding clay/mud.

DENYING the Truth doesn't make you right: it actually guarantees that you are wrong![quote author=TenQ post=136290259]These are not philosophical traps, they are pitfalls in your theology!

*Allah is ONE
*Allah cannot enter into his creation
Yet we see that Allah puts on a different form from his original

Then, we want to ask
What happened to Allah's real/original body when he appeared to you Muslims with a strange shape? Did this body die? And what happened to the strange shape of Allah when he came back to you Muslims in the shape you know?



Of course you do avoid deep reasoning.
You will note that most of my questions were answered with

We don't answer such questions because they are philosophical traps!
OR
We do not imagine size or dimensions or etc
OR
We do not speculate beyond the text

Yours is what is called BLIND faith my friend!

A blind faith is a trust based on no credible evidence such kinds of faith are based purely on emotions!



Who are those who asked questions and thus became disbelievers?

Why do you think Allah says that knowing the TRUTH could cause you distress ?

Quran 5:101
"O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has pardoned that which is past; and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing."


1. Shouldn't you want to know the TRUTH even if it would distress you?
2. Are you aware that the end of any Truth that will cause you distress is NEVER good?
3. Are you aware that when you know the Truths that could cause you distress, you have an opportunity to avoid the Harm coming to you?
4. Would you call anyone who withhold a Truth that would cause you distress if you know about it a friend or an enemy?

My brother, I beg you to THINK about this verse.

Qur'an 19:71-72
"And there is none of you except he will come to it (Hell). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."
1. If the Truth is that you will certainly enter hell fire (even if it is temporarily), would it distress you?
2. Knowing that you will enter the fire even if it is temporary is certainly NOT Good because the time you will spend is undefined!
3. Wouldn't this knowledge help you to begin to seek for a way of avoiding this calamity?
4. What will you call anyone who says you will pass over the bridge of Sirat or you will fly over hell contrary to Qur'an 19:71-72: would such be a friend!?

[/quote]1 Yes, Believers Will See Allah in Heaven

You're right. Islam says that true followers will see Allah later, as told in many hadiths. Early wise ones like Ibn Kathir, al-Jalalayn, & Imam Abu Hanifa said so too.

But this does not mean that Allah has a set shape or is part of creation.

Why?
Because the rules of this world do not bind what comes later. Light, time, & space don't work the same there. That’s why.

"His eyes do not catch Him, but He catches all eyes." (Qur’an 6:103)
"There is nothing like Him." (Qur’an 42:11)

So yes, believers will see Allah, but not like we see things here. Allah stays great, beyond all, & free — even if He shows Himself in a way fit for His grandeur.

2 Is All That Can Be Seen Bound to End?

No, that's a deep thought, not a God-given truth.

If you think so, then angels, jinn, & even the soul would have to be real things. But we learn from God's words that their true form is beyond us or not known.

Just because you can see it does not mean it is made of bits or is part of the big space. The truth of Heaven & how Allah shows up there is not bound by our world's rules.

3 What About Allah's Hands & Making Adam?

You bring up: Qur’an 38:75 - Why did you not bow to what I made with My hands?

Muslims take this as it is, without making Allah seem like us.

We do not say Allah’s hands are like ours.

We do not make His hands seem less.

We do not take them as just a symbol.

We say they are real, fitting His grandeur, & we do not ask how.

This is not doubt; it’s just the way. We don't ask how Allah knows, sees, or hears yet we trust those are true.

4. What If Allah Takes a Form?

This asks if Allah is like things that do not change, & if He shows up as new, does the old go away?

That's the wrong view. Allah is not made of parts or shapes. He shows Himself by His wish, not by turning or leaving a shape.

When Allah shows a form we know, it is just a show, not a change in who He is. He stays The First, The Last, The Seen, & The Unseen — all at the same time. (Qur’an 57:3)

Your question, "What happened to Allah’s form when He took on a new shape?" thinks wrong that He has a set form. But:

Allah does not change. He is not a thing.

5 Is It Blind Trust to Not Guess?

No. Not to speak of what we don't know is not blind trust; it’s just wise.

"Do not go into what you do not know." (Qur’an 17:36)

Islam lets us ask, but not guess, boast, or cause mess & false beliefs.

The wise ones said:
Say it as Allah did — without asking how.

This does not mean we drop logic. It means we don't act like we can grasp all that is unseen fully.

Blind trust is to hold to things with no proof. Islam's faith is based on:

God's words (Qur’an & true Hadith), good thought, logical sense (no clashes in what God is), & knowing our limits.

6. Qur’an 5:101–102 — "Don't Ask" Words

These words warn of asks that lead to loss of faith, not real seeks:
"O you who trust, don't ask of things that, if shown to you, would hurt you." (Qur’an 5:101)

In the Prophet’s days, some asked things not needed or to mock, & faced what they asked.

It's like when Israelites asked Moses about the cow in Qur’an 2:68–71. The more they asked, the harder the rule got. Their want for small things led to their fall.

These words warn us not to play with faith or test God with nonstop asks.

7. Qur’an 19:71–72 — Will Every Muslim Face Hell?

Every one of you will face it [Hell]...
Then We will save those who feared Allah...
(Qur’an 19:71–72)

Facing it doesn't mean going in & burning. Wise ones were not all the same on this. Some said it's like crossing a bridge over Hell.
Others said it's seeing it up close.

But Allah says He will save the good from it.
This is not wrong. It’s a test & a sign. Those who fall in are just, & those saved are by God’s love.

It's scientific evidence that your hadiths do not trace up to the time of your prophet and they have been discredited. All your ... and ...(replace these with terms for the 1st gen[companions] and 2nd gen)—as I can post such terms without getting ...🤦🏾‍♂️—are too late to validate credibility with most of them based on hearsay 👀.

You are just regurgitating the standard narrative. It doesn't help your case, it shows the dissonance emanating from you.
Allah indeed has a shape, form. Also, the holy city doesn't have any external evidence to back it up. Even the Arabic used in the Quran suggest higher influence 👀, Petra, as opposed to the Arabic you should have expected if it were from the region of the holy city.

To even cap it off, you have over 30 different Qurans with the non-existence of the uthmanic Quran! This along with lots more screams "something is not right"🤨.

All in all, it's become rather apparent that a lot of things were added with its basic theology flawed. Hence the persistence not to cross "red lines" and the abhorrence of scientific inquiry!

Ohyoudidnt:
1 Yes, Believers Will See Allah in Heaven

You're right. Islam says that true followers will see Allah later, as told in many hadiths. Early wise ones like Ibn Kathir, al-Jalalayn, & Imam Abu Hanifa said so too.

But this does not mean that Allah has a set shape or is part of creation.

Why?
Because the rules of this world do not bind what comes later. Light, time, & space don't work the same there. That’s why.

"His eyes do not catch Him, but He catches all eyes." (Qur’an 6:103)
"There is nothing like Him." (Qur’an 42:11)

So yes, believers will see Allah, but not like we see things here. Allah stays great, beyond all, & free — even if He shows Himself in a way fit for His grandeur.

But you IGNORE the fact that your prophet explicitly states that Allah will come in A SHAPE which you wouldn't accept initially, then Allah will come again in his original SHAPE and say I am your Lord!

You see why I said:
The whole of Islam is following
1. Your Scholars as a first priority
2. Mohammed as a second priority
3. Allah as a third priority

#In the Qur'an, Allah say pray THREE times: how many times do you pray? FIVE!
#In the Quran, Allah say do Mutah: you say Mohammed abrogated Mutah so you do not do it!
#Allah and Mohammed believes in the Preservation of the Injeel and Torah: your Muslim scholars say NO, that they are corrupted!
#Allah accuses people of the book as taking their Rabbis and Monks as LORDS instead of Allah AND the Messiah. But your scholars rewrote it to exclude the Messiah as LORD!
#Allah say that ALL Muslims must enter Hell Fire at least for some time. Your Islamic scholars created the Bridge of Sirat

Ohyoudidnt:
2 Is All That Can Be Seen Bound to End?
No, that's a deep thought, not a God-given truth.

If you think so, then angels, jinn, & even the soul would have to be real things. But we learn from God's words that their true form is beyond us or not known.

Just because you can see it does not mean it is made of bits or is part of the big space. The truth of Heaven & how Allah shows up there is not bound by our world's rules.

Are Angels finite or infinite in size?
And it take EIGHT angels to carry the throne of Allah: thus Allah is finite sir.

There is not going around it.

Ohyoudidnt:
3 What About Allah's Hands & Making Adam?

You bring up: Qur’an 38:75 - Why did you not bow to what I made with My hands?

Muslims take this as it is, without making Allah seem like us.

We do not say Allah’s hands are like ours.

We do not make His hands seem less.

We do not take them as just a symbol.

We say they are real, fitting His grandeur, & we do not ask how.

This is not doubt; it’s just the way. We don't ask how Allah knows, sees, or hears yet we trust those are true.

No one is speaking about the size of Allah's eyes or its colour: neither are we speaking about the looks of Allah's hands whether long or short, lean or stout: we are speaking of the function of hands as Allah has described them AND not how you wish Allah's hands to be.

Allah used his TWO hands to mould Adam from clay and we stand by that!

WHy do you like manufacturing Allah different from what he himself claims to be?

Ohyoudidnt:
4. What If Allah Takes a Form?

This asks if Allah is like things that do not change, & if He shows up as new, does the old go away?

That's the wrong view. Allah is not made of parts or shapes. He shows Himself by His wish, not by turning or leaving a shape.

When Allah shows a form we know, it is just a show, not a change in who He is. He stays The First, The Last, The Seen, & The Unseen — all at the same time. (Qur’an 57:3)

Your question, "What happened to Allah’s form when He took on a new shape?" thinks wrong that He has a set form. But:
Allah does not change. He is not a thing.

Who should I believe first
1. Allah and his prophet Mohammed
2. You and your Islamic scholars?

Are you saying that the shape of Allah doesn't exist?
If Allah doesn't have a shape, how is he sitting upon his throne?

Ohyoudidnt:
5 Is It Blind Trust to Not Guess?

No. Not to speak of what we don't know is not blind trust; it’s just wise.
"Do not go into what you do not know." (Qur’an 17:36)
Islam lets us ask, but not guess, boast, or cause mess & false beliefs.
The wise ones said:
Say it as Allah did — without asking how.
This does not mean we drop logic. It means we don't act like we can grasp all that is unseen fully.

Blind trust is to hold to things with no proof. Islam's faith is based on:
God's words (Qur’an & true Hadith), good thought, logical sense (no clashes in what God is), & knowing our limits.

The Quran is a claim NOT a proof!
A proof is based on verifiable EVIDENCES that show that other claims can be trusted!

When God Divided the Sea through Moses: were there Witnesses? Thus we can trust God by the claims of Moses!
WHen Jesus raised up the dead were there Witnesses? Then we can trust God by the claims of Jesus
When Elijah made prophecies in the name of YHWH and it came to pass, were there Witnesses? Then we can trust God by the claims of Elijah!

What is the proof that Allah is God other than claims in the Quran?

Ohyoudidnt:
6. Qur’an 5:101–102 — "Don't Ask" Words
These words warn of asks that lead to loss of faith, not real seeks:
"O you who trust, don't ask of things that, if shown to you, would hurt you." (Qur’an 5:101)
In the Prophet’s days, some asked things not needed or to mock, & faced what they asked.
It's like when Israelites asked Moses about the cow in Qur’an 2:68–71. The more they asked, the harder the rule got. Their want for small things led to their fall.

These words warn us not to play with faith or test God with nonstop asks.

You are not answering my question nor reading my argument

Why would the knowledge of the TRUTH lead to loss of Faith?
Knowledge should increase faith!

Ohyoudidnt:
7. Qur’an 19:71–72 — Will Every Muslim Face Hell?

Every one of you will face it [Hell]...
Then We will save those who feared Allah...
(Qur’an 19:71–72)

Facing it doesn't mean going in & burning. Wise ones were not all the same on this. Some said it's like crossing a bridge over Hell.
Others said it's seeing it up close.

But Allah says He will save the good from it.
This is not wrong. It’s a test & a sign. Those who fall in are just, & those saved are by God’s love.

Can't you acknowledge the truth for once?

You will NOT face Hell. You will BE IN IT: then Allah will remove the Believers and leave the unbelievers on their knees(in Hell).

If only you can truthfully answer these two questions below, the truth rather than sentiments will come to you:
Will the Unbelievers be on the bridge of Sirat?
Will the unbelievers be left on their knees on the bridge of sirat?

If the unbelievers wouldn't be left on the bridge then everyone including you Muslims will be INSIDE the Fire before Allah removes you Muslims and lees the unbelievers on their knees!

Qur'an 19:71-72
"And there is none of you except he will come to it (Hell). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."

1. If the Truth is that you will certainly enter hell fire (even if it is temporarily), would it distress you?
2. Knowing that you will enter the fire even if it is temporary is certainly NOT Good because the time you will spend is undefined!
3. Wouldn't this knowledge help you to begin to seek for a way of avoiding this calamity?
4. What will you call anyone who says you will pass over the bridge of Sirat or you will fly over hell contrary to Qur'an 19:71-72: would such be a friend!?

TenQ:
But you IGNORE the fact that your prophet explicitly states that Allah will come in A SHAPE which you wouldn't accept initially, then Allah will come again in his original SHAPE and say I am your Lord!

You see why I said:
The whole of Islam is following
1. Your Scholars as a first priority
2. Mohammed as a second priority
3. Allah as a third priority

#In the Qur'an, Allah say pray THREE times: how many times do you pray? FIVE!
#In the Quran, Allah say do Mutah: you say Mohammed abrogated Mutah so you do not do it!
#Allah and Mohammed believes in the Preservation of the Injeel and Torah: your Muslim scholars say NO, that they are corrupted!
#Allah accuses people of the book as taking their Rabbis and Monks as LORDS instead of Allah AND the Messiah. But your scholars rewrote it to exclude the Messiah as LORD!
#Allah say that ALL Muslims must enter Hell Fire at least for some time. Your Islamic scholars created the Bridge of Sirat


Are Angels finite or infinite in size?
And it take EIGHT angels to carry the throne of Allah: thus Allah is finite sir.

There is not going around it.




No one is speaking about the size of Allah's eyes or its colour: neither are we speaking about the looks of Allah's hands whether long or short, lean or stout: we are speaking of the function of hands as Allah has described them AND not how you wish Allah's hands to be.

Allah used his TWO hands to mould Adam from clay and we stand by that!

WHy do you like manufacturing Allah different from what he himself claims to be?




Who should I believe first
1. Allah and his prophet Mohammed
2. You and your Islamic scholars?

Are you saying that the shape of Allah doesn't exist?
If Allah doesn't have a shape, how is he sitting upon his throne?


The Quran is a claim NOT a proof!
A proof is based on verifiable EVIDENCES that show that other claims can be trusted!

When God Divided the Sea through Moses: were there Witnesses? Thus we can trust God by the claims of Moses!
WHen Jesus raised up the dead were there Witnesses? Then we can trust God by the claims of Jesus
When Elijah made prophecies in the name of YHWH and it came to pass, were there Witnesses? Then we can trust God by the claims of Elijah!

What is the proof that Allah is God other than claims in the Quran?





You are not answering my question nor reading my argument

Why would the knowledge of the TRUTH lead to loss of Faith?
Knowledge should increase faith!



Can't you acknowledge the truth for once?

You will NOT face Hell. You will BE IN IT: then Allah will remove the Believers and leave the unbelievers on their knees(in Hell).

If only you can truthfully answer these two questions below, the truth rather than sentiments will come to you:
Will the Unbelievers be on the bridge of Sirat?
Will the unbelievers be left on their knees on the bridge of sirat?

If the unbelievers wouldn't be left on the bridge then everyone including you Muslims will be INSIDE the Fire before Allah removes you Muslims and lees the unbelievers on their knees!

Qur'an 19:71-72
"And there is none of you except he will come to it (Hell). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."

1. If the Truth is that you will certainly enter hell fire (even if it is temporarily), would it distress you?
2. Knowing that you will enter the fire even if it is temporary is certainly NOT Good because the time you will spend is undefined!
3. Wouldn't this knowledge help you to begin to seek for a way of avoiding this calamity?
4. What will you call anyone who says you will pass over the bridge of Sirat or you will fly over hell contrary to Qur'an 19:71-72: would such be a friend!?

Allah's shape and visibility have been subjects of discussion, with authentic hadiths suggesting that He will appear in a recognizable form to believers, albeit later becoming unrecognizable - a notion that Sunni orthodoxy affirms, while emphasizing that Allah can be seen without modality, meaning He doesn't resemble creation or possess a physical shape like created beings; in fact, the term 'shape' used here doesn't imply a body or limit, and isn't comparable to human form, as stated in Surah Ash-Shura 42:11, which says, 'There is nothing like unto Him.'

Furthermore, the concept of Allah's shape is often misunderstood, and it's essential to approach this topic with a deep understanding of Islamic theology. The two hands of Allah, as mentioned in the Qur'an, where it's stated that Allah created Adam with His two hands (Surah 38:75), are attributes that we affirm without likening them to human limbs, a position held by early scholars like Imam Malik and Ahmad ibn Hanbal, who said, 'The attribute is known, the how is unknown, belief in it is obligatory, and asking about it is an innovation.'

Additionally, the idea that Muslims prioritize scholars over Allah is a misconception. Muslim scholars are merely tools for understanding what Allah and His Prophet (peace be upon him) revealed, and when Muslims follow ijma' (scholarly consensus), it's because the Prophet commanded it, as stated in the Hadith, 'My Ummah will never agree upon error' (Sunan Tirmidhi, Hadith: 2167), and scholars don't overwrite revelation, but rather interpret it through the Quran and Sunnah.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) also explained the five daily prayers in authentic hadith, which the Qur'an alludes to but doesn't fully enumerate, and Mut'ah (temporary marriage) was initially permitted but later abrogated by the Prophet himself, a legislative act that Muslims accept as valid.

Lastly, regarding the verse in the Qur'an (19:71) that states everyone will enter Hell, it's essential to consider the next verse, which clarifies that 'Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it,' and early scholars interpreted this as crossing over Hell via the Sirat (bridge), not entering into it bodily, a matter of tafsir that isn't universally agreed upon, and therefore, not a contradiction.

Evidence Supporting the Validity of the Quran and Islam The Quran offers a combination of internal proofs such as its linguistic brilliance, moral guidance, and prophetic accuracy—alongside external validations, including historical consistency, scientific insights, and unparalleled preservation. It boldly invites skeptics to replicate even a single chapter of its caliber (Qur’an 2:23), a challenge that remains unmet. Beyond mere assertions, the Quran’s transformative impact on individuals, its role in shaping civilizations, and the fulfillment of its prophecies stand as undeniable testimonies to its divine origin. Unlike other religious texts, the Quran is a self-validating miracle, preserved in its original form without alteration.


Very well you have argued the same thing thereby having me repeat myself. Then you have digressed into other questions you have repeated for years yet the answers aren't different except for your fixation that the answers will somehow change yet you have no new proof to enable this. Welll good luck.

Ohyoudidnt:
Allah's shape and visibility have been subjects of discussion, with authentic hadiths suggesting that He will appear in a recognizable form to believers, albeit later becoming unrecognizable - a notion that Sunni orthodoxy affirms, while emphasizing that Allah can be seen without modality, meaning He doesn't resemble creation or possess a physical shape like created beings; in fact, the term 'shape' used here doesn't imply a body or limit, and isn't comparable to human form, as stated in Surah Ash-Shura 42:11, which says, 'There is nothing like unto Him.'

Furthermore, the concept of Allah's shape is often misunderstood, and it's essential to approach this topic with a deep understanding of Islamic theology. The two hands of Allah, as mentioned in the Qur'an, where it's stated that Allah created Adam with His two hands (Surah 38:75), are attributes that we affirm without likening them to human limbs, a position held by early scholars like Imam Malik and Ahmad ibn Hanbal, who said, 'The attribute is known, the how is unknown, belief in it is obligatory, and asking about it is an innovation.'

1. So, as a Muslim, tell me how I can recognise Allah when I see him?
2. How come Muslims initially assumed Allah was Shaitan to the point of seeking refuge from him with Allah?
3. Was Allah the shape seen by you Muslims or Allah was inside the shape?

Ohyoudidnt:
Additionally, the idea that Muslims prioritize scholars over Allah is a misconception. Muslim scholars are merely tools for understanding what Allah and His Prophet (peace be upon him) revealed, and when Muslims follow ijma' (scholarly consensus), it's because the Prophet commanded it, as stated in the Hadith, 'My Ummah will never agree upon error' (Sunan Tirmidhi, Hadith: 2167), and scholars don't overwrite revelation, but rather interpret it through the Quran and Sunnah.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) also explained the five daily prayers in authentic hadith, which the Qur'an alludes to but doesn't fully enumerate, and Mut'ah (temporary marriage) was initially permitted but later abrogated by the Prophet himself, a legislative act that Muslims accept as valid.

My problem with you Muslims is that
1. Allah or Mohammed will say something clear and direct
2. Your scholars will say different things by treating Allah and Mohammad as if they were toddlers who are imprecise with words.
AND
You Muslims will follow the consensus of your scholars! You call it EXPLANATION!

Except you show from the Qur'an when Allah abrogated the Mutah otherwise it was Mohammed who did the Abrogation. The same thing with daily prayers!

Ohyoudidnt:
Lastly, regarding the verse in the Qur'an (19:71) that states everyone will enter Hell, it's essential to consider the next verse, which clarifies that 'Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it,' and early scholars interpreted this as crossing over Hell via the Sirat (bridge), not entering into it bodily, a matter of tafsir that isn't universally agreed upon, and therefore, not a contradiction.

This had always being my point: that Muslims will be in the Fire of Hell temporarily.

The question is:
In the light of Eternity, how many Days or Weeks or Years or Decades or Centuries or Millennials will you spend in Hell Fire before you are eventually removed?

Ohyoudidnt:
Evidence Supporting the Validity of the Quran and Islam The Quran offers a combination of internal proofs such as its linguistic brilliance, moral guidance, and prophetic accuracy—alongside external validations, including historical consistency, scientific insights, and unparalleled preservation. It boldly invites skeptics to replicate even a single chapter of its caliber (Qur’an 2:23), a challenge that remains unmet. Beyond mere assertions, the Quran’s transformative impact on individuals, its role in shaping civilizations, and the fulfillment of its prophecies stand as undeniable testimonies to its divine origin. Unlike other religious texts, the Quran is a self-validating miracle, preserved in its original form without alteration.

I asked for EVIDENCES supporting Allah!

Even though, the Qur'an has been found to contain lots of
Scientific Errors
Historical Errors
Mathematical Errors
Logical Errors
Grammatical Errors
But this is not my objective.

I asked for EVIDENCES that we can use from historical witnesses that Allah is God.

The Children of Israel are witnesses to several things YHWH have done in their lives and what they have witnessed.

Ohyoudidnt:
Very well you have argued the same thing thereby having me repeat myself. Then you have digressed into other questions you have repeated for years yet the answers aren't different except for your fixation that the answers will somehow change yet you have no new proof to enable this. Welll good luck.

Because you keep repeating what you want to believe rather than what Allah or Mohammed has spoken.
If I repeatedly told you that Donald Trump is the President of Nigeria one million times would never change the truth

TenQ:
1. So, as a Muslim, tell me how I can recognise Allah when I see him?
2. How come Muslims initially assumed Allah was Shaitan to the point of seeking refuge from him with Allah?
3. Was Allah the shape seen by you Muslims or Allah was inside the shape?




My problem with you Muslims is that
1. Allah or Mohammed will say something clear and direct
2. Your scholars will say different things by treating Allah and Mohammad as if they were toddlers who are imprecise with words.
AND
You Muslims will follow the consensus of your scholars! You call it EXPLANATION!

Except you show from the Qur'an when Allah abrogated the Mutah otherwise it was Mohammed who did the Abrogation. The same thing with daily prayers!


This had always being my point: that Muslims will be in the Fire of Hell temporarily.

The question is:
In the light of Eternity, how many Days or Weeks or Years or Decades or Centuries or Millennials will you spend in Hell Fire before you are eventually removed?


I asked for EVIDENCES supporting Allah!

Even though, the Qur'an has been found to contain lots of
Scientific Errors
Historical Errors
Mathematical Errors
Logical Errors
Grammatical Errors
But this is not my objective.

I asked for EVIDENCES that we can use from historical witnesses that Allah is God.

The Children of Israel are witnesses to several things YHWH have done in their lives and what they have witnessed.



Because you keep repeating what you want to believe rather than what Allah or Mohammed has spoken.
If I repeatedly told you that Donald Trump is the President of Nigeria one million times would never change the truth

How can I recognize Allah when I see Him?
So, here’s the thing: according to some authentic hadiths like the ones in Sahih al-Bukhari (7439),believers will actually recognize Allah in the Hereafter, but it won’t be about how He looks. Instead, it’s more about specific signs, you know? Things like the uncovering of the Shin or His speech and authority. It’s a recognition that Allah grants, not something we earn just by thinking about it in this world. Kind of like how Moses recognized God’s calling without actually seeing Him (Exodus 3). For Muslims, it’s really about divine revelation, not biology or physical appearances.

Why do Muslims not recognize Allah in the first shape?
You know, this is addressed in several hadiths too (like Bukhari 6573). When believers first encounter Allah in a form they don't expect, it’s not that they’re confused between Allah and Satan. It’s actually a test of sincerity and discernment. Allah says:
"Faces that Day will be radiant, looking at their Lord." (Qur’an 75:22-23)
So, Allah tests His servants by showing up in a way they don’t anticipate, and then He confirms His identity. This isn’t saying that Allah is a physical being; it’s about how His presence is shown differently for the purpose of judgment. The Prophet, peace be upon him, used this to illustrate Allah’s uniqueness and to gauge the sincerity of believers.
Was Allah the shape or was He inside it?
Now, this question sort of assumes Allah is limited by space like His creation, which Islam definitely denies. Allah isn’t confined to any form, nor does He “enter” His creation. When He appears in a certain form in the Hereafter, it’s more like a perception He chooses, rather than some kind of physical body. Really, there’s nothing like Him. (Qur’an 42:11)

Do Muslims follow scholars over Allah and Muhammad?

That’s a common misconception. Scholars aren’t infallible, and Muslims aren’t required to follow them blindly. The Prophet, peace be upon him, taught, and his companions preserved that knowledge. Scholars interpret based on the Qur’an and Sunnah.
Consensus is valued because the Prophet himself praised the majority and warned against introducing new things into the faith. True scholarship isn’t about rebelling against Allah or the Prophet; it’s about understanding and applying their teachings across generations.

Where in the Qur’an is Mutʿah abrogated?

Mutʿah, or temporary marriage, was actually abrogated during the Prophet's lifetime. Muslims acknowledge his authority based on the Qur’an:
"Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatever he forbids you, abstain from it." (Qur’an 59:7)
Plus, there were several companions—like Ali ibn Abi Talib and Ibn Umar—who narrated this abrogation, showing it was something the early Muslims were aware of.
What abrogated Mutʿah if not the Qur’an?
Well, it was the Prophet Muhammad himself who abrogated Mutʿah, and his command is considered binding under the Qur’anic mandate (59:7). There are several sahih hadith that confirm this:
Hadith Evidence:
In Sahih Muslim 1406a, he said: "O people, I had permitted you Mutʿah, but now Allah has forbidden it until the Day of Judgment," narrated by Ali ibn Abi Talib and others.
In Sahih al-Bukhari 5115, which comes from Sabra al-Juhani, it’s noted that "The Messenger of Allah permitted us to do Mutʿah during the conquest of Mecca, then he prohibited it forever."
And in Muslim 1405, it mentions that the Prophet prohibited Mutʿah at Khaybar.
Some narrations even suggest it was allowed early in Islam under specific hardships—like during war—but was eventually made permanently forbidden.
Scholarly Consensus (Ijmaʿ)
All four Sunni madhhabs; Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanbali agree that Mutʿah is haram after the Prophet abrogated it.

The Twelver Shia, however, argue that it’s still allowed, claiming Umar’s ijtihad was the cause of the abrogation. But Sunni sources clearly show it was the Prophet who made that change, and Umar only enforced it during his caliphate.


Will Muslims be in Hell temporarily?

So, the Qur'an, specifically in 19:71–72, says something pretty profound: "And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."

Most scholars interpret this to mean that people will pass over the Fire on the Sirat bridge rather than actually entering Hell.

Some do believe that sinful Muslims might end up in Hell for a bit, but the exact duration? Only Allah knows that.

What we do know is that those with genuine faith will eventually find salvation. It’s really about divine justice and mercy, isn’t it?

The crux of these verses? It’s all about the difference between the saved and those who are left behind.

Salvation is promised to those who have lived with taqwa, or God-consciousness, and who’ve made an effort to do good. This aligns with the broader Islamic teaching that our ultimate judgment hinges on our faith and actions.

Now, it’s worth noting that interpretations can differ quite a bit, and how these verses are understood can change depending on various theological views within Islam. But at the end of the day, the message is one of hope and mercy for those striving to live by Islamic principles.

Now, let’s talk about the evidence for Allah being God.

Islam doesn’t just lean on historical witnesses though the miracles of the Prophet play a part. Instead, the Qur'an offers both internal and external signs, like:

1. Preservation: We’re talking about a book that’s been memorized and recited the same way for over 1400 years.
2. Linguistic miracle: The style, structure, and literary depth? Unmatched.
3. Fulfilled prophecies: Like the victory of the Romans mentioned in the Qur'an (30) and the conquest of Mecca.
4. Consistency with natural law: It encourages us to observe, reflect, and really study the universe around us.
5. Spiritual transformation: The Qur'an has this incredible power to change hearts, unite tribes, and even reshape entire civilizations.
These aren’t just claims they’re experiences and evidence you can verify.

You might wonder, "The Israelites had eyewitness proof; where’s Islam’s?" Well, here’s the thing: Prophets of Israel faced rejection, too, despite their miracles. Think about it. Moses’ followers still worshipped the calf! The Qur'an is seen as a linguistic, prophetic, moral, and preservational miracle.
It’s public, global, and you can test it today, unlike those one-time miracles from ancient history. Even the Qur'an states, "This is insight from your Lord, a guidance and mercy..." (Qur'an 7:203).
The real test isn’t about whether you actually saw a miracle, but whether you’re open to engaging with it sincerely.

Demanding a miracle you can see assumes that God needs to act like His creation to be credible. But Islam teaches that Allah reveals Himself through revelation, not by showing up in human form. Faith is meant to engage both reason and trust not just what you can see.

And remember, “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)

The Qur'an echoes this sentiment: “We will show them Our signs in the horizons and in themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth.” (Qur'an 41:53).