₦airaland Forum

You're right: no matter how many times something is repeated — whether by an imam, scholar, apologist, or critic — it must stand on real, revealed, and verifiable evidence. Otherwise, it's just noise.

Ohyoudidnt:
How can I recognize Allah when I see Him?
So, here’s the thing: according to some authentic hadiths like the ones in Sahih al-Bukhari (7439),believers will actually recognize Allah in the Hereafter, but it won’t be about how He looks. Instead, it’s more about specific signs, you know? Things like the uncovering of the Shin or His speech and authority. It’s a recognition that Allah grants, not something we earn just by thinking about it in this world. Kind of like how Moses recognized God’s calling without actually seeing Him (Exodus 3). For Muslims, it’s really about divine revelation, not biology or physical appearances.

The hadith actually show that you Muslims have a wrong descriptive concept of Allah!
Why?
Was it Allah who came in the first instance or not?
If it is Allah, then, you don't know Allah!
Do you know how the shin of Iblis look like?
What is special with the shin of Allah?

How can you be sure it was NOT Iblis who forgot his supposed shape and first came to you in another form till you Muslims rejected him: such that he corrected himself to show you what you will believe?

Ohyoudidnt:
Why do Muslims not recognize Allah in the first shape?
You know, this is addressed in several hadiths too (like Bukhari 6573). When believers first encounter Allah in a form they don't expect, it’s not that they’re confused between Allah and Satan. It’s actually a test of sincerity and discernment. Allah says:
"Faces that Day will be radiant, looking at their Lord." (Qur’an 75:22-23)
So, Allah tests His servants by showing up in a way they don’t anticipate, and then He confirms His identity. This isn’t saying that Allah is a physical being; it’s about how His presence is shown differently for the purpose of judgment. The Prophet, peace be upon him, used this to illustrate Allah’s uniqueness and to gauge the sincerity of believers.
Was Allah the shape or was He inside it?
Now, this question sort of assumes Allah is limited by space like His creation, which Islam definitely denies. Allah isn’t confined to any form, nor does He “enter” His creation. When He appears in a certain form in the Hereafter, it’s more like a perception He chooses, rather than some kind of physical body. Really, there’s nothing like Him. (Qur’an 42:11)

It is not a test o!

If God is indeed the Almighty, it is IMPOSSIBLE to not know that you are in his presence!
Do you agree with this?

You can wish that Allah is not limited by space nor does he enter into his creation BUT your hadiths say otherwise. If Allah's looks is a perception, then he is not real: and whatever you are seeing as Allah is an Illusion!

Ohyoudidnt:
Do Muslims follow scholars over Allah and Muhammad?

That’s a common misconception. Scholars aren’t infallible, and Muslims aren’t required to follow them blindly. The Prophet, peace be upon him, taught, and his companions preserved that knowledge. Scholars interpret based on the Qur’an and Sunnah.
Consensus is valued because the Prophet himself praised the majority and warned against introducing new things into the faith. True scholarship isn’t about rebelling against Allah or the Prophet; it’s about understanding and applying their teachings across generations.

Of course you rate the words of your scholars higher than that or Allah or even Mohammed.
Evidence abound!

Is Allah perfect and Eloquent in speech or not?
Is Mohammed deficient in placement of words or not?

If they are not, why then don't you follow EXACTLY what they have said rather than follow the CONSENSUS of ordinary fallible men who call themselves scholars.

Do you disagree with the fact that a consensus opinion does not connote the TRUTH!?

Ohyoudidnt:
Where in the Qur’an is Mutʿah abrogated?

Mutʿah, or temporary marriage, was actually abrogated during the Prophet's lifetime. Muslims acknowledge his authority based on the Qur’an:
"Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatever he forbids you, abstain from it." (Qur’an 59:7)
Plus, there were several companions—like Ali ibn Abi Talib and Ibn Umar—who narrated this abrogation, showing it was something the early Muslims were aware of.
What abrogated Mutʿah if not the Qur’an?
Well, it was the Prophet Muhammad himself who abrogated Mutʿah, and his command is considered binding under the Qur’anic mandate (59:7). There are several sahih hadith that confirm this:
Hadith Evidence:
In Sahih Muslim 1406a, he said: "O people, I had permitted you Mutʿah, but now Allah has forbidden it until the Day of Judgment," narrated by Ali ibn Abi Talib and others.
In Sahih al-Bukhari 5115, which comes from Sabra al-Juhani, it’s noted that "The Messenger of Allah permitted us to do Mutʿah during the conquest of Mecca, then he prohibited it forever."
And in Muslim 1405, it mentions that the Prophet prohibited Mutʿah at Khaybar.
Some narrations even suggest it was allowed early in Islam under specific hardships—like during war—but was eventually made permanently forbidden.
Scholarly Consensus (Ijmaʿ)
All four Sunni madhhabs; Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanbali agree that Mutʿah is haram after the Prophet abrogated it.

The Twelver Shia, however, argue that it’s still allowed, claiming Umar’s ijtihad was the cause of the abrogation. But Sunni sources clearly show it was the Prophet who made that change, and Umar only enforced it during his caliphate.

Allah is greater than Mohammed, isn't he?
Allah gave the command of Mutah in his Eternal Quran!
Then only Allah can abrogate the Mutah in his Quran!

We know that it was Umar that eventually stopped the Mutah because Mohammed Allowed it , then cancelled it, then allowed it then cancelled it and it was in effect among you muslims until Umar cancelled it

Ohyoudidnt:
Will Muslims be in Hell temporarily?

So, the Qur'an, specifically in 19:71–72, says something pretty profound: "And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."

Most scholars interpret this to mean that people will pass over the Fire on the Sirat bridge rather than actually entering Hell.

Some do believe that sinful Muslims might end up in Hell for a bit, but the exact duration? Only Allah knows that.

What we do know is that those with genuine faith will eventually find salvation. It’s really about divine justice and mercy, isn’t it?

The crux of these verses? It’s all about the difference between the saved and those who are left behind.

Salvation is promised to those who have lived with taqwa, or God-consciousness, and who’ve made an effort to do good. This aligns with the broader Islamic teaching that our ultimate judgment hinges on our faith and actions.

Now, it’s worth noting that interpretations can differ quite a bit, and how these verses are understood can change depending on various theological views within Islam. But at the end of the day, the message is one of hope and mercy for those striving to live by Islamic principles.

Of course there is no bridge of Sirat: it is a fabrication!
You will all enter hell fire for some time!

My concern is WHY?
Why must anyone first enter the fire before he can finally be released?

This explains why Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the Fire!
Does this make logical sense to you that Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the fire!?
It seems someone doesn't want you to know the Truth!

Ohyoudidnt:
Now, let’s talk about the evidence for Allah being God.
Islam doesn’t just lean on historical witnesses though the miracles of the Prophet play a part. Instead, the Qur'an offers both internal and external signs, like:
1. Preservation: We’re talking about a book that’s been memorized and recited the same way for over 1400 years.

Every evidence show that the Quran was not perfectly preserved. Seven Ahruf, 10 Qiraat and we cannot lay our hands on just one perfect one. The Goat eat some pages but it's still perfectly preserved!?

Ohyoudidnt:
2. Linguistic miracle: The style, structure, and literary depth? Unmatched.

Another lie you willingly chose to believe. Obviously, Quran 9:31 is a mistake.
If your Quran is perfect in style, structure and literary depth, tell me; Who spoke the Al-Fathia?
Was it Mohammed, Allah or Jibril?

Ohyoudidnt:
3. Fulfilled prophecies: Like the victory of the Romans mentioned in the Qur'an (30) and the conquest of Mecca.

i. The author of the Quran seem not to know the difference between the Roman Empire AND the Byzantine Empire
ii. The word سِنِينَ ۗ refers to between 3 to 9 years (a short time indeed)
iii. Surah Ar-rum was written in Mecca (the 30th Surah of the Quran). If you know a little history, 86 chapters were written in this Mecca and the rest in Medina. Mohammed lived the last ten years of his life in Medina.
iv. So, tell me how (even if we assume that the Byzantines were the Romans) that سِنِينَ ۗ 3 to 9 years was correct.

Your scholars can tell lies for the Universe.

Ohyoudidnt:
4. Consistency with natural law: It encourages us to observe, reflect, and really study the universe around us.

Like having unnatural relationship with prepubescent girls!?
And Doing Mutah!?

Ohyoudidnt:
5. Spiritual transformation: The Qur'an has this incredible power to change hearts, unite tribes, and even reshape entire civilizations.
These aren’t just claims they’re experiences and evidence you can verify.

Bombing Churches and Mosques in the name of Allah
Suicide Bombing in the name of Allah
Taqqiyya in the name of Allah
Calling fellow human being as the worst of Creatures
Collecting Jizya from Christians and Jews when you have political power

Ohyoudidnt:
You might wonder, "The Israelites had eyewitness proof; where’s Islam’s?" Well, here’s the thing: Prophets of Israel faced rejection, too, despite their miracles. Think about it. Moses’ followers still worshipped the calf! The Qur'an is seen as a linguistic, prophetic, moral, and preservational miracle.
It’s public, global, and you can test it today, unlike those one-time miracles from ancient history. Even the Qur'an states, "This is insight from your Lord, a guidance and mercy..." (Qur'an 7:203).
The real test isn’t about whether you actually saw a miracle, but whether you’re open to engaging with it sincerely.

Demanding a miracle you can see assumes that God needs to act like His creation to be credible. But Islam teaches that Allah reveals Himself through revelation, not by showing up in human form. Faith is meant to engage both reason and trust not just what you can see.

And remember, “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)

The Qur'an echoes this sentiment: “We will show them Our signs in the horizons and in themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth.” (Qur'an 41:53).

The Israelites had evidences and proofs of God only that they wanted a God who will give them freedom to do as they wish like the gods of the other nations. Unfortunately, YHWH is not like that!

The Sea parted for them and they walked on dry land
God fed them for 40 years in the desert
They saw miracles from several prophets God sent to them

The Israelites can NEVER ever say their God is Hearsay or Theoretical.

You have only given excuses sir,
What is the EVIDENCE for Allah?
Talk is cheap!

Your usual criticism of Islam mixed with accusatory tone, sarcasm, and offensive content.

Allah isn't just a body or a being trapped within creation, even if He can be seen or heard.

Muslims don’t believe that Allah is merely a spirit, either. He exists beyond any physical form, spirit, or any category we can create.

Allah can show signs or forms that help us understand Him, similar to what we see in the Bible.

Hadith emphasize His transcendence rather than His physicality. While it’s said, “He is above the Throne,” it’s also clear that He isn’t limited by space.

Mut’ah was once permitted and seems to be mentioned in Qur’an 4:24.

Sunnis hold that the Prophet later prohibited it, with Umar enforcing that ban rather than introducing something new.

On the other hand, Shi’a Muslims argue that there’s no abrogation in the Qur’an, suggesting that Umar went against divine revelation.

The main difference between the two groups is about who holds the ultimate authority: Hadith/Sunnah for Sunnis or a literal interpretation of the Qur’an combined with Imamate for Shi’a

Round 2 result

https://www.nairaland.com/8486945/bible-challenge-trinity-boomark-image123#136306032

Trinity Is just being sustained on lies and people insisting on out of point comments. It is not biblical. It is from satan and the antichrist.

Boomark:
Round 2 result

https://www.nairaland.com/8486945/bible-challenge-trinity-boomark-image123#136306032

Trinity Is just being sustained on lies and people insisting on out of point comments. It is not biblical. It is from satan and the antichrist.

Hmmm, did AI really say this? i think i need to find some time to check it later.

Ohyoudidnt:
Your usual criticism of Islam mixed with accusatory tone, sarcasm, and offensive content.

Allah isn't just a body or a being trapped within creation, even if He can be seen or heard.

Muslims don’t believe that Allah is merely a spirit, either. He exists beyond any physical form, spirit, or any category we can create.

Allah can show signs or forms that help us understand Him, similar to what we see in the Bible.

Hadith emphasize His transcendence rather than His physicality. While it’s said, “He is above the Throne,” it’s also clear that He isn’t limited by space.

Mut’ah was once permitted and seems to be mentioned in Qur’an 4:24.

Sunnis hold that the Prophet later prohibited it, with Umar enforcing that ban rather than introducing something new.

On the other hand, Shi’a Muslims argue that there’s no abrogation in the Qur’an, suggesting that Umar went against divine revelation.

The main difference between the two groups is about who holds the ultimate authority: Hadith/Sunnah for Sunnis or a literal interpretation of the Qur’an combined with Imamate for Shi’a

You say he is formless but continue to represent him using forms/shapes😂. Make it make sense!

By the way, external critique has dismissed your hadiths as unreliable. If I were you, I will align with the shia view—using solely the Quran!

I wonder why you need so many scholars to explain Allah's words, words that are supposedly clear! 😂 You make him look like the worst communicator in history.

He says one thing, you guys say another.
He denotes one thing, you say he connotes another!
It's not sarcasm or censure, it's reality!

Gabrielshow24:
You say he is formless but continue to represent him using forms/shapes😂. Make it make sense!

By the way, external critique has dismissed your hadiths as unreliable. If I were you, I will align with the shia view—using solely the Quran!

I wonder why you need so many scholars to explain Allah's words, words that are supposedly clear! 😂 You make him look like the worst communicator in history.

He says one thing, you guys say another.
He denotes one thing, you say he connotes another!
It's not sarcasm or censure, it's reality!

You stated that I claim He is formless yet depict Him through forms or shapes?

In Islamic theology, Allah is unequivocally beyond any physical form as we comprehend it. The Qur’an explicitly declares: "There is nothing comparable to Him, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing" (Surah Ash-Shura 42:11).

No reputable Muslim scholar asserts that Allah possesses a physical form akin to His creation. Any visual depictions of God you may encounter are not rooted in Islamic teachings but often stem from non-Islamic artistic traditions or polemical works, and they are universally rejected within mainstream Islam. The Muslim perspective unequivocally elevates Allah above any imperfections or resemblances to His creation.

Thus, the accusation is fundamentally misguided.

Whose standards are being applied here? Orientalists? Atheist academics? Contemporary skeptics?

The discipline of Hadith scholarship is arguably the most meticulous system of historical verification ever devised. It employs a rigorous methodology of isnad;chain of narration, biographical scrutiny, and contextual analysis to authenticate Prophetic traditions. Dismissing Hadith due to preconceived biases is not a critique but a rejection of the very tools that safeguard historical accuracy. An approach that borders on intellectual dishonesty.

Ironically, even within Shia Islam, Hadith are utilized, albeit through different compilations such as Al-Kafi, as opposed to Sahih al-Bukhari or Muslim.

Allah Himself acknowledges the multifaceted nature of His Book. He is the One who revealed the Book to you. Some of its verses are clear ... while others are ambiguous" (Quran 3:7).

Not every verse is immediately apparent to every reader. Some demand contextual understanding, linguistic expertise, historical insight, and jurisprudential methodology.

Scholars are not impediments; they serve as conduits between divine revelation and human comprehension.

Your stance verges perilously close to blasphemy.

Not everything is immediately apparent to every reader, and it's often necessary to delve into context, linguistic analysis, historical background, and legal methodology to gain a deeper understanding of certain verses.

Scholars, in this regard, serve as a bridge between the revelation and human comprehension, rather than obstacles to be overcome. To suggest otherwise would be, quite frankly, perilously close to blasphemy.

The issue at hand is not with Allah's communication, for He is, after all, The All-Wise and The Most Eloquent Communicator, but rather with the listener's arrogance or lack of understanding.

As the Quran so eloquently puts it, 'Do they not reflect upon the Qur’an, or are there locks upon their hearts?' (Quran 47:24).

Mockery and the use of emojis are not an effective means of disguising one's ignorance, and if a message is subtle, it doesn't necessarily mean it's unclear -rather, it requires a humble approach, unencumbered by ridicule.

It's essential to recognize that critiquing Islam is not akin to poking holes in straw men, ignoring context, and mocking things one doesn't understand. If the goal is indeed to uncover the truth, then questions should be asked sincerely, without the need for smug sarcasm.

Muslims, having studied their faith for over 1400 years, are unlikely to be swayed by such superficial criticisms, which often stem from a lack of understanding and a reliance on Twitter threads or YouTube skeptics.

TenQ:
The hadith actually show that you Muslims have a wrong descriptive concept of Allah!
Why?
Was it Allah who came in the first instance or not?
If it is Allah, then, you don't know Allah!
Do you know how the shin of Iblis look like?
What is special with the shin of Allah?

How can you be sure it was NOT Iblis who forgot his supposed shape and first came to you in another form till you Muslims rejected him: such that he corrected himself to show you what you will believe?


It is not a test o!

If God is indeed the Almighty, it is IMPOSSIBLE to not know that you are in his presence!
Do you agree with this?

You can wish that Allah is not limited by space nor does he enter into his creation BUT your hadiths say otherwise. If Allah's looks is a perception, then he is not real: and whatever you are seeing as Allah is an Illusion!


Of course you rate the words of your scholars higher than that or Allah or even Mohammed.
Evidence abound!

Is Allah perfect and Eloquent in speech or not?
Is Mohammed deficient in placement of words or not?

If they are not, why then don't you follow EXACTLY what they have said rather than follow the CONSENSUS of ordinary fallible men who call themselves scholars.

Do you disagree with the fact that a consensus opinion does not connote the TRUTH!?



Allah is greater than Mohammed, isn't he?
Allah gave the command of Mutah in his Eternal Quran!
Then only Allah can abrogate the Mutah in his Quran!

We know that it was Umar that eventually stopped the Mutah because Mohammed Allowed it , then cancelled it, then allowed it then cancelled it and it was in effect among you muslims until Umar cancelled it


Of course there is no bridge of Sirat: it is a fabrication!
You will all enter hell fire for some time!

My concern is WHY?
Why must anyone first enter the fire before he can finally be released?

This explains why Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the Fire!
Does this make logical sense to you that Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the fire!?
It seems someone doesn't want you to know the Truth!


Every evidence show that the Quran was not perfectly preserved. Seven Ahruf, 10 Qiraat and we cannot lay our hands on just one perfect one. The Goat eat some pages but it's still perfectly preserved!?


Another lie you willingly chose to believe. Obviously, Quran 9:31 is a mistake.
If your Quran is perfect in style, structure and literary depth, tell me; Who spoke the Al-Fathia?
Was it Mohammed, Allah or Jibril?


i. The author of the Quran seem not to know the difference between the Roman Empire AND the Byzantine Empire
ii. The word سِنِينَ ۗ refers to between 3 to 9 years (a short time indeed)
iii. Surah Ar-rum was written in Mecca (the 30th Surah of the Quran). If you know a little history, 86 chapters were written in this Mecca and the rest in Medina. Mohammed lived the last ten years of his life in Medina.
iv. So, tell me how (even if we assume that the Byzantines were the Romans) that سِنِينَ ۗ 3 to 9 years was correct.

Your scholars can tell lies for the Universe.


Like having unnatural relationship with prepubescent girls!?
And Doing Mutah!?


Bombing Churches and Mosques in the name of Allah
Suicide Bombing in the name of Allah
Taqqiyya in the name of Allah
Calling fellow human being as the worst of Creatures
Collecting Jizya from Christians and Jews when you have political power


The Israelites had evidences and proofs of God only that they wanted a God who will give them freedom to do as they wish like the gods of the other nations. Unfortunately, YHWH is not like that!

The Sea parted for them and they walked on dry land
God fed them for 40 years in the desert
They saw miracles from several prophets God sent to them

The Israelites can NEVER ever say their God is Hearsay or Theoretical.

You have only given excuses sir,
What is the EVIDENCE for Allah?
Talk is cheap!

As for Surah Al-Fatiha, it is essentially a divine supplication imparted to us by Allah, wherein the Qur'an encompasses not only direct speech from Allah, but also commanded speech, such as Dua, which was taught to us - for instance, when Allah says, 'Say: He is Allah, the One...' (Qur'an 112:1). Although the Prophet is reciting it, it is, in fact, Allah's Word and instruction. Similarly, Al-Fatiha is comprised of Allah's words, which were taught to us for the purpose of prayer, and there is no contradiction here; it is, indeed, Divine speech from Allah, formatted as a supplication for worshippers.

Regarding the Romans vs Byzantines and the Prediction in Surah Ar-Rum, Surah Ar-Rum (30:2-4) states that the Romans have been defeated, but they will overcome within a few years. The term 'Romans' (الْرُّوم) in Arabic refers to the Eastern Roman Empire, which is now known as the Byzantines. The Arabs of the 7th century used the term 'Rome' to refer to Byzantium, and this was also reflected in their coins and communications - this is not a historical error, but rather a linguistic convention of the time. The term 'sineen' (سِنِينَ) in Arabic is the plural form of 'sanah' (year), which is commonly interpreted to mean 3 to 9 years. The Battle of Antioch (602 CE) and the Byzantine victory at Nineveh (627 CE) occurred within 7 years, exactly within the prophesied time. This was, therefore, an accurate prophecy, revealed in Mecca before the actual victory occurred, and it came true, as acknowledged by both Muslim and non-Muslim historians.

Furthermore, scholars have, on occasion, been known to lie or misrepresent facts, and the issue of Mut'ah (Temporary Marriage) is a case in point. It was initially permitted in early Islam during wartime hardship, just as some Jewish traditions had temporary or concubine relationships. However, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) later forbade it permanently, as stated in authentic hadiths from Sahih Muslim (1406) and Bukhari.

TenQ:
The hadith actually show that you Muslims have a wrong descriptive concept of Allah!
Why?
Was it Allah who came in the first instance or not?
If it is Allah, then, you don't know Allah!
Do you know how the shin of Iblis look like?
What is special with the shin of Allah?

How can you be sure it was NOT Iblis who forgot his supposed shape and first came to you in another form till you Muslims rejected him: such that he corrected himself to show you what you will believe?


It is not a test o!

If God is indeed the Almighty, it is IMPOSSIBLE to not know that you are in his presence!
Do you agree with this?

You can wish that Allah is not limited by space nor does he enter into his creation BUT your hadiths say otherwise. If Allah's looks is a perception, then he is not real: and whatever you are seeing as Allah is an Illusion!


Of course you rate the words of your scholars higher than that or Allah or even Mohammed.
Evidence abound!

Is Allah perfect and Eloquent in speech or not?
Is Mohammed deficient in placement of words or not?

If they are not, why then don't you follow EXACTLY what they have said rather than follow the CONSENSUS of ordinary fallible men who call themselves scholars.

Do you disagree with the fact that a consensus opinion does not connote the TRUTH!?



Allah is greater than Mohammed, isn't he?
Allah gave the command of Mutah in his Eternal Quran!
Then only Allah can abrogate the Mutah in his Quran!

We know that it was Umar that eventually stopped the Mutah because Mohammed Allowed it , then cancelled it, then allowed it then cancelled it and it was in effect among you muslims until Umar cancelled it


Of course there is no bridge of Sirat: it is a fabrication!
You will all enter hell fire for some time!

My concern is WHY?
Why must anyone first enter the fire before he can finally be released?

This explains why Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the Fire!
Does this make logical sense to you that Christians and Jews would be your ransom from the fire!?
It seems someone doesn't want you to know the Truth!


Every evidence show that the Quran was not perfectly preserved. Seven Ahruf, 10 Qiraat and we cannot lay our hands on just one perfect one. The Goat eat some pages but it's still perfectly preserved!?


Another lie you willingly chose to believe. Obviously, Quran 9:31 is a mistake.
If your Quran is perfect in style, structure and literary depth, tell me; Who spoke the Al-Fathia?
Was it Mohammed, Allah or Jibril?


i. The author of the Quran seem not to know the difference between the Roman Empire AND the Byzantine Empire
ii. The word سِنِينَ ۗ refers to between 3 to 9 years (a short time indeed)
iii. Surah Ar-rum was written in Mecca (the 30th Surah of the Quran). If you know a little history, 86 chapters were written in this Mecca and the rest in Medina. Mohammed lived the last ten years of his life in Medina.
iv. So, tell me how (even if we assume that the Byzantines were the Romans) that سِنِينَ ۗ 3 to 9 years was correct.

Your scholars can tell lies for the Universe.


Like having unnatural relationship with prepubescent girls!?
And Doing Mutah!?


Bombing Churches and Mosques in the name of Allah
Suicide Bombing in the name of Allah
Taqqiyya in the name of Allah
Calling fellow human being as the worst of Creatures
Collecting Jizya from Christians and Jews when you have political power


The Israelites had evidences and proofs of God only that they wanted a God who will give them freedom to do as they wish like the gods of the other nations. Unfortunately, YHWH is not like that!

The Sea parted for them and they walked on dry land
God fed them for 40 years in the desert
They saw miracles from several prophets God sent to them

The Israelites can NEVER ever say their God is Hearsay or Theoretical.

You have only given excuses sir,
What is the EVIDENCE for Allah?
Talk is cheap!

It is worth noting that Aisha (RA) was married at a young age, a practice that was, in fact, commonplace across the globe, including in Europe, during that era. However, it's crucial to understand that Islam mandates both physical puberty and mental maturity before the consummation of marriage, as stipulated by the condition of maturity in the Qur'an 4:6.

Furthermore, Islam categorically prohibits harm, abuse, and coercion, and child marriage is not only illegal but also not practiced in the majority of Muslim countries today.

On a separate note, the concept of suicide bombing or terrorism is a gross distortion of Islamic teachings, as suicide is explicitly forbidden in the Qur'an 4:29, which states, 'Do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is Merciful to you.' Additionally, killing innocent people is considered a major sin, as emphasized in the Qur'an 5:32, 'Whoever kills a soul… it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.'

It's also important to address the misconception surrounding Taqiyya, which, in Shi'a jurisprudence, refers to concealing one's faith under duress, and not as a license to lie.

In Sunni Islam, lying is only permissible in situations where it can save a life, and not for the purpose of deception or manipulation.

The Jizya Tax, often misunderstood, was actually a small tax imposed on non-Muslim citizens under Islamic rule in exchange for military protection and exemption from war duty, and it's worth noting that Muslims themselves paid Zakat, which was often more. When it comes to evidence for the existence of Allah, Islam presents multiple layers of evidence, including rational arguments such as the fine-tuning of the universe, the origin of life, and the universal moral instinct, all of which point to the existence of a Wise Creator.

The Qur'an itself appeals to reason, as seen in the verse, 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?' (Qur'an 52:35). Moreover, the revelation of the Qur'an, with its unmatched linguistic style, preservation, fulfilled prophecies, and influence, remains unparalleled, and the challenge still stands, 'If you are in doubt… produce a surah like it' (Qur'an 2:23), a challenge that has yet to be met.


The realm of spiritual experience is one where millions of individuals have reported finding peace, transformation, and guidance through the practices of prayer and engagement with the Qur'an.

It's worth noting that not all forms of evidence are tangible or measurable by conventional means, much like the intangible yet undeniable realities of love, consciousness, and morality yet these are experiences that, while not necessarily quantifiable through laboratory tools, are nonetheless profoundly real.

Throughout history, various groups, including the Israelites and Muslims, have witnessed miracles, yet the observation of such phenomena has never been a guarantee of faith. As the Qur'an so eloquently states, even if one were to be granted a celestial gateway and ascend through it, they might still remain skeptical, saying, 'Our eyes have been dazzled...' (Qur'an 15:14-15).


Islam, rather than demanding blind faith, encourages a path of reason, reflection, and subsequent submission of the heart. For those who genuinely seek truth, unencumbered by the desire for argumentation, the promise is that Allah will illuminate their heart, as expressed in the Hadith - Musnad Ahmad, 'Whoever seeks the truth sincerely, Allah will guide them.'
Lastly, the spiritual experience of millions of people, who have found peace and transformation through their faith, serves as a testament to the power and truth of Islam.

TenQ:
Another lie you willingly chose to believe. Obviously, Quran 9:31 is a mistake.

Despite your customary diversion from thread subjects this might be the only thing mistakenly associated to the thread.

The conjunction "wa" (وَ) in this context serves as a coordinating particle, linking Jesus to the enumeration of figures erroneously venerated, such as rabbis, monks, and Jesus himself.

Notably, the term "Al-Masih" appears in the accusative case (mansub) الْمَسِيحَ rather than the nominative (marfu), indicating its role as part of the object rather than the subject. This grammatical nuance underscores that Jesus is counted among those mistakenly elevated as lords, not omitted.

Arabic syntax leaves no ambiguity. Jesus is grouped with the falsely worshipped, not aligned with Allah as a rightful recipient of devotion. The conjunction "wa" (and) associates Jesus with the misattributed lords, not with Allah as a co-equal deity.

If you have no superior Arabic explanation against the above stop displaying illogical arrogance. Accept the error in over veneration of Jesus and the Holy spirit along side the one and only ultimate God

Ohyoudidnt, you will find my response attached.

Ohyoudidnt:
Your usual criticism of Islam mixed with accusatory tone, sarcasm, and offensive content.

Allah isn't just a body or a being trapped within creation, even if He can be seen or heard.

Muslims don’t believe that Allah is merely a spirit, either. He exists beyond any physical form, spirit, or any category we can create.

Allah can show signs or forms that help us understand Him, similar to what we see in the Bible.

Hadith emphasize His transcendence rather than His physicality. While it’s said, “He is above the Throne,” it’s also clear that He isn’t limited by space.

Mut’ah was once permitted and seems to be mentioned in Qur’an 4:24.

Sunnis hold that the Prophet later prohibited it, with Umar enforcing that ban rather than introducing something new.

On the other hand, Shi’a Muslims argue that there’s no abrogation in the Qur’an, suggesting that Umar went against divine revelation.

The main difference between the two groups is about who holds the ultimate authority: Hadith/Sunnah for Sunnis or a literal interpretation of the Qur’an combined with Imamate for Shi’a

The difference between us is that you keep repeating things you have heard from your scholars old and new.
BUT
I show you what Allah and your prophet said with their IMPLICATIONS which you don't like because they are the exact Truths Allah doesn't want you to know lest you leave Islam.

TenQ:
The difference between us is that you keep repeating things you have heard from your scholars old and new.
BUT
I show you what Allah and your prophet said with their IMPLICATIONS which you don't like because they are the exact Truths Allah doesn't want you to know lest you leave Islam.

Can you see your lie? Kindly explain with irrefutable proof why you reject this as a saying of the prophet.

O people, I had permitted you to contract temporary marriage with women, but Allah has forbidden it (now) until the Day of Resurrection. So he who has any (woman with this type of marriage contract), he should let her off, and do not take back anything you have given to them (as dower)

Ohyoudidnt:
Despite your customary diversion from thread subjects this might be the only thing mistakenly associated to the thread.

The conjunction "wa" (وَ) in this context serves as a coordinating particle, linking Jesus to the enumeration of figures erroneously venerated, such as rabbis, monks, and Jesus himself.

Notably, the term "Al-Masih" appears in the accusative case (mansub) الْمَسِيحَ rather than the nominative (marfu), indicating its role as part of the object rather than the subject. This grammatical nuance underscores that Jesus is counted among those mistakenly elevated as lords, not omitted.

Arabic syntax leaves no ambiguity. Jesus is grouped with the falsely worshipped, not aligned with Allah as a rightful recipient of devotion. The conjunction "wa" (and) associates Jesus with the misattributed lords, not with Allah as a co-equal deity.

If you have no superior Arabic explanation against the above stop displaying illogical arrogance. Accept the error in over veneration of Jesus and the Holy spirit along side the one and only ultimate God

Alright,
I challenge you to translate this Arabic into English language to prove who is write or wrong.

I am waiting!


ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ

TenQ:
Alright,
I challenge you to translate this Arabic into English language to prove who is write or wrong.

I am waiting!


ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ

You ignored my more serious question to further display ignorance?

The sentence is grammatically deficient, semantically ambiguous, and missing the essential concluding subject or object required to construct a coherent statement in the style of the Quran.

So there you have another failure of yours to write anything like the Quran

Ohyoudidnt:
It is worth noting that Aisha (RA) was married at a young age, a practice that was, in fact, commonplace across the globe, including in Europe, during that era. However, it's crucial to understand that Islam mandates both physical puberty and mental maturity before the consummation of marriage, as stipulated by the condition of maturity in the Qur'an 4:6.

Furthermore, Islam categorically prohibits harm, abuse, and coercion, and child marriage is not only illegal but also not practiced in the majority of Muslim countries today.

In the Qur'an, what is the waiting period when you divorce a prepubescent girl?

Ohyoudidnt:
On a separate note, the concept of suicide bombing or terrorism is a gross distortion of Islamic teachings, as suicide is explicitly forbidden in the Qur'an 4:29, which states, 'Do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is Merciful to you.' Additionally, killing innocent people is considered a major sin, as emphasized in the Qur'an 5:32, 'Whoever kills a soul… it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.'

But it is the Fruit we see mainly from Muslims!
If there is any suicide bombing in any partnof the world, the probability that the perpetuators are Muslims is more than 90%

Ohyoudidnt:
It's also important to address the misconception surrounding Taqiyya, which, in Shi'a jurisprudence, refers to concealing one's faith under duress, and not as a license to lie.

In Sunni Islam, lying is only permissible in situations where it can save a life, and not for the purpose of deception or manipulation.

In Islam is it permissible for a Husband to lie to his Wife?
In Islam, is it permissible to lie in defence of Islam?

Ohyoudidnt:
The Jizya Tax, often misunderstood, was actually a small tax imposed on non-Muslim citizens under Islamic rule in exchange for military protection and exemption from war duty, and it's worth noting that Muslims themselves paid Zakat, which was often more. When it comes to evidence for the existence of Allah, Islam presents multiple layers of evidence, including rational arguments such as the fine-tuning of the universe, the origin of life, and the universal moral instinct, all of which point to the existence of a Wise Creator.

If Jizyah is small a tax, why must we pay it with willing Submission and Humiliation?

You see: there are things you want to believe, but your religious text say otherwise!

Ohyoudidnt:
The Qur'an itself appeals to reason, as seen in the verse, 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?' (Qur'an 52:35). Moreover, the revelation of the Qur'an, with its unmatched linguistic style, preservation, fulfilled prophecies, and influence, remains unparalleled, and the challenge still stands, 'If you are in doubt… produce a surah like it' (Qur'an 2:23), a challenge that has yet to be met.

But you are quick to tell us that you don't ask some kinds of questions!

You said:
Moreover, the revelation of the Qur'an, with its unmatched linguistic style, preservation, fulfilled prophecies, and influence, remains unparalleled, and the challenge still stands,

Can you give us an objective standard by which we can judge and ascertain this claim? How do we test it objectively?

Ohyoudidnt:
The realm of spiritual experience is one where millions of individuals have reported finding peace, transformation, and guidance through the practices of prayer and engagement with the Qur'an.

It's worth noting that not all forms of evidence are tangible or measurable by conventional means, much like the intangible yet undeniable realities of love, consciousness, and morality yet these are experiences that, while not necessarily quantifiable through laboratory tools, are nonetheless profoundly real.

How can you have peace when you have no guarantee of entering paradise?

Do you know What Allah has destined for you?

The difference between us is that with respect to Paradise, I am a child of YHWH while you are a slave of Allah!

Ohyoudidnt:
Throughout history, various groups, including the Israelites and Muslims, have witnessed miracles, yet the observation of such phenomena has never been a guarantee of faith. As the Qur'an so eloquently states, even if one were to be granted a celestial gateway and ascend through it, they might still remain skeptical, saying, 'Our eyes have been dazzled...' (Qur'an 15:14-15).

So, other than blind faith, who is Allah?
How do you know he is who he says he is?

Ohyoudidnt:
Islam, rather than demanding blind faith, encourages a path of reason, reflection, and subsequent submission of the heart. For those who genuinely seek truth, unencumbered by the desire for argumentation, the promise is that Allah will illuminate their heart, as expressed in the Hadith - Musnad Ahmad, 'Whoever seeks the truth sincerely, Allah will guide them.'
Lastly, the spiritual experience of millions of people, who have found peace and transformation through their faith, serves as a testament to the power and truth of Islam.

Unfortunately, you don't follow the path of reason!
You follow a blind faith
First in your Scholars
Then in Mohammed
And lastly in Allah

If not, why do Muslims hate the Israelites?
Why should a Jew convert to Islam?

Why is the most unqualified by Character be the greatest prophet to you?

All these make no sense sir!

Ohyoudidnt:
You ignored my more serious question to further display ignorance?

The sentence is grammatically deficient, semantically ambiguous, and missing the essential concluding subject or object required to construct a coherent statement in the style of the Quran.

So there you have another failure of yours to write anything like the Quran

Are you condemning the Qur'an because All I did was to copy the first part of the Quran 9:31 verse and replace the nouns.

Your argument was about the WA = AND , so, I have given you the Arabic of Allah with a slight twist. Fear of the Truth will not let you do the needful.

Can you see how you willingly deceive yourself!

Why are Muslims ALWAYS afraid of the TRUTH that will set them free?

My Challenge remains,
Please translate the Script for me

I am waiting!
ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ

TenQ:
Are you condemning the Qur'an because All I did was to copy the first part of the Quran 9:31 verse and replace the nouns.

Your argument was about the WA = AND , so, I have given you the Arabic of Allah with a slight twist. Fear of the Truth will not let you do the needful.

Can you see how you willingly deceive yourself!

Why are Muslims ALWAYS afraid of the TRUTH that will set them free?

My Challenge remains,
Please translate the Script for me

I am waiting!
ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ

Keep failing at your attempts to twist the Quran like your ancestors did with the scripture. You should have better use for your intellectual ignorance.

Gabrielshow24:
Ohyoudidnt, you will find my response attached.

Surah 3:7 clarifies the nature of the verses in the Qur’an rather than causing confusion. It distinguishes between clear verses, which address legal and doctrinal matters, and allegorical ones that deal with deeper, metaphysical themes.Faith and its foundational texts cannot be reduced to slogans or oversimplified one-liners

The hadiths were compiled with incredible care, with their chains of narration carefully verified. This is quite different from the Bible, which doesn’t have such chains and has uncertain authorship. Early manuscripts like Sana'a and Topkapi, along with the practice of memorization spanning centuries, support the Qur’an’s preservation.

Your co traveller's Arabic challenge was grammatically off, which further emphasizes how unique and inimitable the Qur’an is.

Islam encourages questioning and thoughtful reflection, not blind acceptance. Its message has remained consistent over time, is rooted in history, and is open to honest, sincere examination.

Ohyoudidnt:
Keep failing at your attempts to twist the Quran like your ancestors did with the scripture. You should have better use for your intellectual ignorance.

When I tell you Muslims that your normal disposition is to HATE the TRUTH: it is an understatement.









For non-muslims reading this
Allah made a dramatically mistake in his Qur'an in Quran 9:31

Quran 9:31
They took their Rabbis and their Monks as Lords instead of Allah and the Messiah, son of Mary, and they were not commanded except that they worship one God — no god except Him — glory to Him above what they associate.

Allah most likely wanted to say, they took their Rabbis, Monks and the Messiah Won of Mary as Lords instead of Allah ....

Unfortunately, this is a big theological problem for the Muslims so that they have to LIE about this in ALL their English translation of the Qur'an.

Since Mr OhYoudidnt was arguing endlessly, I decided to give him the Arabic with all the NOUNS replaced with Equivalents such that Rabbis changed to Leaders, Monks changed to Teachers, Allah changed to Aldan , the Messiah changed to the King and Mary changed to Fatima

The new statement should now be
Arabic:
ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ
Translation:
They took their Rabbis Leaders and their Monks Teachers as Lords instead of Allah Aldan and the Messiah, King son of Mary Fatima....


Nothing else was changed.

Instead of admitting the TRUTH!

He decided to throw the Qur'an under the bus as BAD GRAMMAR
He said:

The sentence is grammatically deficient, semantically ambiguous, and missing the essential concluding subject or object required to construct a coherent statement in the style of the Quran.

Word for word apart from the noun replacement I had copied his Qur'an


Can such people who despise the truth be helped?
They think that strong-head and repeating falsehood thousands of times will suddenly convert it into some truths!

TenQ:
When I tell you Muslims that your normal disposition is to HATE the TRUTH: it is an understatement.









For non-muslims reading this
Allah made a dramatically mistake in his Qur'an in Quran 9:31

Quran 9:31
They took their Rabbis and their Monks as Lords instead of Allah and the Messiah, son of Mary, and they were not commanded except that they worship one God — no god except Him — glory to Him above what they associate.

Allah most likely wanted to say, they took their Rabbis, Monks and the Messiah Won of Mary as Lords instead of Allah ....

Unfortunately, this is a big theological problem for the Muslims so that they have to LIE about this in ALL their English translation of the Qur'an.

Since Mr OhYoudidnt was arguing endlessly, I decided to give him the Arabic with all the NOUNS replaced with Equivalents such that Rabbis changed to Leaders, Monks changed to Teachers, Allah changed to Aldan , the Messiah changed to the King and Mary changed to Fatima

The new statement should now be
Arabic:
ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ
Translation:
They took their Rabbis Leaders and their Monks Teachers as Lords instead of Allah Aldan and the Messiah, King son of Mary Fatima....


Nothing else was changed.

Instead of admitting the TRUTH!

He decided to throw the Qur'an under the bus as BAD GRAMMAR
He said:


Word for word apart from the noun replacement I had copied his Qur'an


Can such people who despise the truth be helped?
They think that strong-head and repeating falsehood thousands of times will suddenly convert it into some truths!

Another expert at turning the truth upside down with lies.

The truth requires sincerity, humility, and understanding of context and language.

Rather than accuse others of hating the truth or lying,it’s better to engage honestly with the texts, the grammar, and the centuries of scholarship both Islamic and otherwise that uphold the coherence and beauty of the Quran in Arabic language.

I never condemned the Quran but you for your failure to produce something like the Quran more so with your ignorance of rules in arabic grammar.

Ohyoudidnt:
The conjunction "wa" (وَ) in this context serves as a coordinating particle, linking Jesus to the enumeration of figures erroneously venerated, such as rabbis, monks, and Jesus himself.

Notably, the term "Al-Masih" appears in the accusative case (mansub) الْمَسِيحَ rather than the nominative (marfu), indicating its role as part of the object rather than the subject. This grammatical nuance underscores that Jesus is counted among those mistakenly elevated as lords, not omitted.

Arabic syntax leaves no ambiguity. Jesus is grouped with the falsely worshipped, not aligned with Allah as a rightful recipient of devotion. The conjunction "wa" (and) associates Jesus with the misattributed lords, not with Allah as a co-equal deity.

If you are truthful as you claim directly address and assess the submission regarding your error on Quran 9:31 above and stop deluding yourself and trying to do same for others

Ohyoudidnt:
Another expert at turning the truth upside down with lies.

The truth requires sincerity, humility, and understanding of context and language.

Rather than accuse others of hating the truth or lying,it’s better to engage honestly with the texts, the grammar, and the centuries of scholarship both Islamic and otherwise that uphold the coherence and beauty of the Quran in Arabic language.

I never condemned the Quran but you for your failure to produce something like the Quran more so with your ignorance of rules in arabic grammar.



If you are truthful as you claim directly address and assess the submission regarding your error on Quran 9:31 above and stop deluding yourself and trying to do same for others

I was not even trying to produce the Qur'an. I wanted to take you off your scholars re-interpretations of Qur'an 9:31 by giving you a non Qur'anic verse with exactly the same grammatical STRUCTURE used in the Qur'an.

Translate this non-Quran Arabic:
ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ



I repeat: I wasn't writing the Qur'an, this was why I changed it from any religious undertone.

The TRUTH is all I need from you for once!

TenQ:
I was not even trying to produce the Qur'an. I wanted to take you off your scholars re-interpretations of Qur'an 9:31 by giving you a non Qur'anic verse with exactly the same grammatical STRUCTURE used in the Qur'an.

Translate this non-Quran Arabic:
ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ زُعَمَاءَهُمْ وَمُعَلِّمِيهِمْ أَرْبَـٰبًا مِّن دُونِ ٱلْعَدَنِ وَٱلْمَلِكُ بْنُ فَاطِمَةَ



I repeat: I wasn't writing the Qur'an, this was why I changed it from any religious undertone.

The TRUTH is all I need from you for once!

You see how you contradict yourself?

Without knowing and understanding the Arabic grammar rules you say the scholars have reinterpreted. This is nothing but your own deceit.


Regardless explain

Ohyoudidnt:
Can you see your lie? Kindly explain with irrefutable proof why you reject this as a saying of the prophet.

O people, I had permitted you to contract temporary marriage with women, but Allah has forbidden it (now) until the Day of Resurrection. So he who has any (woman with this type of marriage contract), he should let her off, and do not take back anything you have given to them (as dower)

You don't have a defensible truth?

I can't even respond to my cousin. 😂
Well, if this goes. Here's your reply, my beloved Abrahamic cousin.

Ohyoudidnt:
You see how you contradict yourself?

Without knowing and understanding the Arabic grammar rules you say the scholars have reinterpreted. This is nothing but your own deceit.


Regardless explain


You don't have a defensible truth?

The truth is always bitter and many people despise it.

See the extent the truth is being repressed 😂... We are now resorting to this. God have mercy👀.