₦airaland Forum

Arda1000:
thats not how it works,extra ordinary claims requires extra ordinary proofs,any fool can write anything and claim it’s the word of god,but then prove it

If a message is from God it will certainly achieve the purpose for which it was written! Isaiah 55:11
The Bible God promised and fulfilled it that's enough evidence for me!

MaxInDHouse:
The truth is there has never been a time when the majority accepted a true prophet unless God forced such a prophet on them!
Moses was opposed several times by his own people but God kept destroying all opposers of Moses.
Jesus said that will no longer be the case because what he brought doesn't end among the Israelites so if Jesus and his disciples have to destroy their opposers it won't be out of freewill that people will become Christians but by force.
So when the Jews in general rejected Jesus he told them that their nation has been rejected by God and till today they never had peace!

I know new ideas don't sell fast but they eventually sell if well articulated overtime. I know that is true for the academia. It applies to anybody trying to force change. However it will be wrong to say the Jews have been rejecting all their prophets and it would be wrong to say Jesus' curse is working on them today. They went on exile to Babylon before Jesus was born and were expelled from Judea/Palestine after the exit of Jesus but now they are back there. Once again I don't think the Jews were wrong about Jesus. Anybody that says they are God or are above other humans in any form have at least psychiatric problems. Many people like that are in psychiatric homes today

lawani:
I know new ideas don't sell fast but they eventually sell if well articulated overtime. I know that is true for the academia. It applies to anybody trying to force change. However it will be wrong to say the Jews have been rejecting all their prophets and it would be wrong to say Jesus' curse is working on them today. They went on exile to Babylon before Jesus was born and were expelled from Judea/Palestine after the exit of Jesus but now they are back there. Once again I don't think the Jews were wrong about Jesus. Anybody that says they are God or are above other humans in any form have at least psychiatric problems. Many people like that are in psychiatric homes today

Jesus said they will be killed but warned his disciples to flee and never return to Jerusalem so his true disciples left that city and never returned.
Today that nation can't have the peace they always wanted because they taught they could get it without Jesus and history have proved that they are wrong!

lawani:
Were the Jews right to execute Jesus Christ?.

First of all, some people insist it was not the Jews that killed Jesus but the Romans but I do not support this view because Jesus was not a threat to Rome in any way. He did not oppose Roman authority and when according to a Bible account he was prodded by the Jews on Rome, he advised everybody to pay tax to Emperor Caesar. He was not a viable messiah and only viable messiahs with large followings were engaged by Rome. A Jewish messiah is someone that will free their country from Rome as at then and make them sovereign again. Many people that assumed that role were killed by Rome and when their followers still insisted they rose from the dead, a particular one was left in a gulley to rot so that everybody can see he did not rise up again.
Back to the Jews and Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus Christ was killed either directly or indirectly by Jewish theocrats for being an apostate. He broke blasphemy laws. Going by what is happening in today’s world where people are allowed to make all kinds of theological claims and brainwash people causing death and misery all over the world, I believe there should be apostasy laws. People should not be free to publicly make any claim about God that they deem fit. They should especially not be able to make claims putting themselves on super human pedestals. There is nothing any human being is that other human beings can not become and if we don't respect that fact we will have issues in our society. In that light I support the Jews that had apostasy laws to prosecute Jesus Christ with in the first century. Though that was not his name but a Greek alias.
What I don't support is the severity of the sentence.
Jesus Christ was prosecuted by the Jews specifically because he publicly claimed to be greater than David, Moses and etc and went further to say he was equal with God. All in public. He claimed to be a leader (more or less King) of the Jews and the Romans were involved because of that. He however never led any insurrection against Rome and did say that his own Kingdom is in the minds of men. The Romans did not see any reason to convict him and they handed him over to the Jews according to the Bible.
In conclusion, were the Jews right to prosecute Jesus Christ?. Yes but the sentence was too severe. However in the past and even in modern times, sentencing for apostasy are always that severe. Since Jesus, many people have been executed for apostasy.

Last time I checked, cruxifiction is not a Jewish mode of executing criminals. Moreover the sanhendrin are empowered to pass the death penalty. The back and forth with Pontius pilate was unnecessary. (One of the reasons for Jesus non existence).
The sanhendrin has the power to pass the death penalty and the mode of execution is by stoning.
FYI the sanhendrin don't meet at night. This tears to shreds the Jesus story.

Christianity is 100% made in Rome (Edom).

The national religion of the Israelites is Judaism.
Jesus is 100% a Roman creation.
Jesus is the Christian God. He has got nothing to do with the Jews, the Jews don't have any traditions about him. The Jews don't worship a man as God. He is definitely not their Messiah.

Max, Isaiah 7:14 is not a prophecy. The prophecy is verse 16. It is about king Ahaz and a son that would be born to Isaiah.
Stop misleading people.

sonmvayina:
Last time I checked, cruxifiction is not a Jewish mode of executing criminals. Moreover the sanhendrin are empowered to pass the death penalty. The back and forth with Pontius pilate was unnecessary. (One of the reasons for Jesus non existence).
The sanhendrin has the power to pass the death penalty and the mode of execution is by stoning.
FYI the sanhendrin don't meet at night. This tears to shreds the Jesus story.

There are debates about the existence of Jesus but I believe a Jewish religious preacher existed upon which Christianity is based though his name was not Jesus Christ which is a Greek name and he may not have been executed. In fact Muslims say he was freed at the last minute. As per the name, nobody existed that was named Jesus Christ.

sonmvayina:
Max, Isaiah 7:14 is not a prophecy. The prophecy is verse 16. It is about king Ahaz and a son that would be born to Isaiah. Stop misleading people.

According to what you always say everyone will end up becoming perfect whether they are misled or not so stop deceiving yourself!

sonmvayina:
Christianity is 100% made in Rome (Edom).

The national religion of the Israelites is Judaism.
Jesus is 100% a Roman creation.
Jesus is the Christian God. He has got nothing to do with the Jews, the Jews don't have any traditions about him. The Jews don't worship a man as God. He is definitely not their Messiah.

Max, Isaiah 7:14 is not a prophecy. The prophecy is verse 16. It is about king Ahaz and a son that would be born to Isaiah.
Stop misleading people.

How am I misleading people?. I did not say he was their messiah. He however was a kind of pretender who said his own kingdom was in the minds of men. He did not confront Rome so he does not qualify. Rome did not see him as a threat and he was an apostate to the Jewish authority. You may want to read my submission again.
Then Christianity was not entirely a Roman creation. It grew on its own for centuries before it was taken up by Rome. There are still Christian sects today that had nothing to do with Rome in Ethiopia and the middle East etc.

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever is written remains valid until you prove it wrong neither you nor i was present when these things were recorded it's like saying all the stories written about people who lived in ancient times are false so it's whatever you feel against mine!

Have you ever heard about the branch of writing called Fiction?

22jumpstreet:
Have you ever heard about the branch of writing called Fiction?

Is that what you believe?

lawani:
There are debates about the existence of Jesus but I believe a Jewish religious preacher existed upon which Christianity is based though his name was not Jesus Christ which is a Greek name and he may not have been executed. In fact Muslims say he was freed at the last minute. As per the name, nobody existed that was named Jesus Christ.

No, I don't think the gospel stories are based on a real person. They are all adapted from the stories about inanna and his beloved Dimuzi/Tamuz and a sprinkling from ancient tales about Marduk. Inanna is the queen of heaven same as Mary the mother of Jesus. She would be Lucifer (light bearer) because Jesus is the light she bore.
There was never any Jesus in Jewish history.

MaxInDHouse:
According to what you always say everyone will end up becoming perfect whether they are misled or not so stop deceiving yourself!

Stop misleading people. It is not nice.
You claim to be a member of a performing group, but all you do is to be dishonest.
State it as it is. And stop taking text from context.

lawani:
How am I misleading people?. I did not say he was their messiah. He however was a kind of pretender who said his own kingdom was in the minds of men. He did not confront Rome so he does not qualify. Rome did not see him as a threat and he was an apostate to the Jewish authority. You may want to read my submission again.
Then Christianity was not entirely a Roman creation. It grew on its own for centuries before it was taken up by Rome. There are still Christian sects today that had nothing to do with Rome in Ethiopia and the middle East etc.

I was referring to maxindhouse. He is being dishonest. He quoted Isaiah 7:14 as if it is referring to Jesus. I pointed out that the real prophecy is verse 16, not 14. It is about king Ahaz and an impending war and a son that would be born to Isaiah that was a sign for the king that his kingdom will stand the threat of the two kings.

Maximus692:
Is that what you believe?

Yes, the gospels are all fictions.

lawani:
How am I misleading people?. I did not say he was their messiah. He however was a kind of pretender who said his own kingdom was in the minds of men. He did not confront Rome so he does not qualify. Rome did not see him as a threat and he was an apostate to the Jewish authority. You may want to read my submission again.
Then Christianity was not entirely a Roman creation. It grew on its own for centuries before it was taken up by Rome. There are still Christian sects today that had nothing to do with Rome in Ethiopia and the middle East etc.

I was referring to Maximus the JW.

Christianity originated in Egypt as the worship of serapis. Whivh was head quartered in Alexandria. Remember why the library there was burnt down.
When it was agreed that Christianity will be the national religion of the Roman empire they had to meet at Nicaea to formulate the new religion and make it appealing to everyone by incorporating elements from the surrounding countries.

MaxInDHouse:
According to what you always say everyone will end up becoming perfect whether they are misled or not so stop deceiving yourself!

You know deep down it is not a prophecy for Jesus. But you keep quoting it. Who are you trying to fool?

22jumpstreet:
Stop misleading people. It is not nice.
You claim to be a member of a performing group, but all you do is to be dishonest. State it as it is. And stop taking text from context.

Guy stop deceiving yourself.

You said everyone will become perfect whether they like it or not so what is the basis of all your arguments?

22jumpstreet:
Yes, the gospels are all fictions.

If that's what you believe then why are you quoting it?
You said the God dwells in the hearts of people which you often misconstrue Jesus claiming that's what he said yet you said everything about him is fiction!

sonmvayina:
You know deep down it is not a prophecy for Jesus. But you keep quoting it. Who are you trying to fool?

I believe deep down in my heart that it's about Jesus so if you don't believe speak for yourself not me!

NO. THE JEWS WERE NOT RIGHT. AND GOD IS STILL PUNISHING THE JEWS TILL TODAY FOR THAT SINGULAR CRIMINALITY.

Maximus692:
I believe deep down in my heart that it's about Jesus so if you don't believe speak for yourself not me!

Continue believing.....

Any body who has read it knows it is not talking about Jesus,

sonmvayina:
Continue believing.....
Any body who has read it knows it is not talking about Jesus,

Lol, anybody or you alone?
Billions out there know it is about Jesus of Nazareth!

MaxInDHouse:
Lol, anybody or you alone?
Billions out there know it is about Jesus of Nazareth!

let me post it from the NWT, let's see for ourselves.

JW.ORG
Isaiah
7:1-25
Chapter 7

7  Now in the days of Aʹhaza son of Joʹtham son of Uz·ziʹah, the king of Judah, King Reʹzin of Syria and Peʹkahb son of Rem·a·liʹah, the king of Israel, came up to wage war against Jerusalem, but he could not capture it. A report was made to the house of David: “Syria has joined forces with Eʹphra·im.”
And the heart of Aʹhaz and the heart of his people began to tremble, like the trees of the forest shaking in the wind.  Jehovah then said to Isaiah: “Go out, please, to meet Aʹhaz, you and your son Sheʹar-jaʹshub, at the end of the conduit of the upper poole by the highway of the laundryman’s field.   You must say to him, ‘Take care to stay calm. Do not be afraid, and do not lose heart because of these two stumps of smoldering logs, because of the hot anger of Reʹzin and Syria and the son of Rem·a·liʹah. For Syria with Eʹphra·im and the son of Rem·a·liʹah have plotted harm against you, saying: “Let us go up against Judah and tear it apart and conquer it for ourselves, and let us appoint the son of Tabʹe·el as its king.”
  “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“It will not succeed,
Nor will it take place.
For the head of Syria is Damascus,
And the head of Damascus is Reʹzin.
Within just 65 years
Eʹphra·im will be completely shattered and cease to be a people.h The head of Eʹphra·im is Sa·marʹi·a, And the head of Sa·marʹi·a is the son of Rem·a·liʹah. Unless you have firm faith,
You will not be firmly established.”’”  Jehovah continued speaking to Aʹhaz:   “Ask for a sign from Jehovah your God;k it may be as deep as the Grave or as high as the sky.” But Aʹhaz said: “I will not ask, nor will I put Jehovah to the test.”
Isaiah then said: “Listen, please, O house of David. Is it not enough that you try the patience of men? Must you also try the patience of God?l
Therefore, Jehovah himself will give you a sign: Look! The young woman has become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and she will name him Im·manʹu·el. He will eat butter and honey by the time that he knows how to reject the bad and choose the good.   For before the boy knows how to reject the bad and choose the good, the land of the two kings whom you dread will be completely abandoned.  Jehovah will bring against you and against your people and against the house of your father a time such as has not come since the day Eʹphra·im broke away from Judah,p for He will bring the king of As·syrʹi·a.
  “In that day Jehovah will whistle for the flies from the distant streams of the Nile of Egypt and for the bees in the land of As·syrʹi·a, and they will all come and settle down on the steep valleys, on the rocky clefts, on all the thornbushes, and on all the watering places.
  “In that day by means of a hired razor from the region of the River, by means of the king of As·syrʹi·a,r Jehovah will shave the head and the hair of the legs, and it will sweep away the beard as well.
  “In that day a man will keep alive a young cow of the herd and two sheep. And because of the abundance of milk, he will eat butter, for everyone remaining in the land will eat butter and honey.
  “In that day wherever there used to be 1,000 vines worth 1,000 pieces of silver, there will be only thornbushes and weeds. Men will go there with bow and arrow, because all the land will become thornbushes and weeds. And all the mountains that used to be cleared with a hoe, you will not go near for fear of thornbushes and weeds; they will become a grazing place for bulls and a trampling ground of sheep

Read it like Isaiah wrote it without the verses and tell me you see Jesus there. Please be sincere.

Max this is the whole of Isaiah 7. It is a long narrative. When you decide to take a single line from a story and run away with it, this is exactly what you get. Put the line back to the story and read it. You will understand the full message.
Let me give you a quick summary of the passage down to verse 16. Like I am preparing for my SSCE English class.

1. The kings of Syria and the northern 10 tribe of Israel formed an alliance.
2. They wanted to make war on Judah and effect a regime change.
3. For sometimes they could not
4. This was told to the king(house of David) just like how King Charles of Great Britain belongs to the house of Windsor. He was agitated and scared. Because it means his family tree was going to end.
5. God sent Isaiah and his son to go and meet me and tell him that whatever they are planning will not come to pass.
6. He was still agitated and God asked him to ask for a sign. A sign that will assure him of God's word and promises.
7. He declined to ask for a sign. Then God then proceeded to give him a sign.
8. A young woman is with child and about to give birth. She will give birth to a son who she would name Immanuel which means God is with us.
9. That he would eat honey and before he knows how to choose between good from evil the two kings he dread will be no more..



No Jesus there at all.


Prove me wrong.

Sincerity starts from accepting the miracles that occurred in Bible times so if you don't agree that miracles occured in the Bible then you have killed your own conscience.

Guy you don't need all these epistle that verse is about a virgin who will become pregnant and it was fulfilled in the first century when virgin girl known as Mary got pregnant with baby Jesus in her womb.

sonmvayina:
let me post it from the NWT, let's see for ourselves.

JW.ORG
Isaiah
7:1-25
Chapter 7

7  Now in the days of Aʹhaza son of Joʹtham son of Uz·ziʹah, the king of Judah, King Reʹzin of Syria and Peʹkahb son of Rem·a·liʹah, the king of Israel, came up to wage war against Jerusalem, but he could not capture it. A report was made to the house of David: “Syria has joined forces with Eʹphra·im.”
And the heart of Aʹhaz and the heart of his people began to tremble, like the trees of the forest shaking in the wind.  Jehovah then said to Isaiah: “Go out, please, to meet Aʹhaz, you and your son Sheʹar-jaʹshub, at the end of the conduit of the upper poole by the highway of the laundryman’s field.   You must say to him, ‘Take care to stay calm. Do not be afraid, and do not lose heart because of these two stumps of smoldering logs, because of the hot anger of Reʹzin and Syria and the son of Rem·a·liʹah. For Syria with Eʹphra·im and the son of Rem·a·liʹah have plotted harm against you, saying: “Let us go up against Judah and tear it apart and conquer it for ourselves, and let us appoint the son of Tabʹe·el as its king.”
  “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“It will not succeed,
Nor will it take place.
For the head of Syria is Damascus,
And the head of Damascus is Reʹzin.
Within just 65 years
Eʹphra·im will be completely shattered and cease to be a people.h The head of Eʹphra·im is Sa·marʹi·a, And the head of Sa·marʹi·a is the son of Rem·a·liʹah. Unless you have firm faith,
You will not be firmly established.”’”  Jehovah continued speaking to Aʹhaz:   “Ask for a sign from Jehovah your God;k it may be as deep as the Grave or as high as the sky.” But Aʹhaz said: “I will not ask, nor will I put Jehovah to the test.”
Isaiah then said: “Listen, please, O house of David. Is it not enough that you try the patience of men? Must you also try the patience of God?l
Therefore, Jehovah himself will give you a sign: Look! The young woman has become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and she will name him Im·manʹu·el. He will eat butter and honey by the time that he knows how to reject the bad and choose the good.   For before the boy knows how to reject the bad and choose the good, the land of the two kings whom you dread will be completely abandoned.  Jehovah will bring against you and against your people and against the house of your father a time such as has not come since the day Eʹphra·im broke away from Judah,p for He will bring the king of As·syrʹi·a.
  “In that day Jehovah will whistle for the flies from the distant streams of the Nile of Egypt and for the bees in the land of As·syrʹi·a, and they will all come and settle down on the steep valleys, on the rocky clefts, on all the thornbushes, and on all the watering places.
  “In that day by means of a hired razor from the region of the River, by means of the king of As·syrʹi·a,r Jehovah will shave the head and the hair of the legs, and it will sweep away the beard as well.
  “In that day a man will keep alive a young cow of the herd and two sheep. And because of the abundance of milk, he will eat butter, for everyone remaining in the land will eat butter and honey.
  “In that day wherever there used to be 1,000 vines worth 1,000 pieces of silver, there will be only thornbushes and weeds. Men will go there with bow and arrow, because all the land will become thornbushes and weeds. And all the mountains that used to be cleared with a hoe, you will not go near for fear of thornbushes and weeds; they will become a grazing place for bulls and a trampling ground of sheep

Read it like Isaiah wrote it without the verses and tell me you see Jesus there. Please be sincere.

sonmvayina:
Max this is the whole of Isaiah 7. It is a long narrative. When you decide to take a single line from a story and run away with it, this is exactly what you get. Put the line back to the story and read it. You will understand the full message.
Let me give you a quick summary of the passage down to verse 16. Like I am preparing for my SSCE English class.

1. The kings of Syria and the northern 10 tribe of Israel formed an alliance.
2. They wanted to make war on Judah and effect a regime change.
3. For sometimes they could not
4. This was told to the king(house of David) just like how King Charles of Great Britain belongs to the house of Windsor. He was agitated and scared. Because it means his family tree was going to end.
5. God sent Isaiah and his son to go and meet me and tell him that whatever they are planning will not come to pass.
6. He was still agitated and God asked him to ask for a sign. A sign that will assure him of God's word and promises.
7. He declined to ask for a sign. Then God then proceeded to give him a sign.
8. A young woman is with child and about to give birth. She will give birth to a son who she would name Immanuel which means God is with us.
9. That he would eat honey and before he knows how to choose between good from evil the two kings he dread will be no more..



No Jesus there at all.


Prove me wrong.

MaxInDHouse:
Sincerity starts from accepting the miracles that occurred in Bible times so if you don't agree that miracles occured in the Bible then you have killed your own conscience.

Guy you don't need all these epistle that verse is about a virgin who will become pregnant and it was fulfilled in the first century when virgin girl known as Mary got pregnant with baby Jesus in her womb.

Ok, I will leave you to your believe. I know you know it is not about Jesus. You just want to hold on to it because that is what the GB told you.

sonmvayina:
Ok, I will leave you to your believe. I know you know it is not about Jesus. You just want to hold on to it because that is what the GB told you.

How many times do i have to tell you to keep talking for yourself not for me?
I believe with all my heart that the verse is about Jesus Christ.
If you don't believe that's your own case don't add me to your condition after all you have said there is no need for group so i'm free to hold my own conviction just as you're free to hold yours!

YES.
THE STORY IS A MYTH AND A LESSON FROM ABOVE TO TEACH THE JUSTICE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE GRAND ORDER DOMINION.

orisa37:
NO. THE JEWS WERE NOT RIGHT. AND GOD IS STILL PUNISHING THE JEWS TILL TODAY FOR THAT SINGULAR CRIMINALITY.

If anybody today were to say 'I am God' or I and God are one and etc you would probably consider the person a megalomaniac or a mental case or an apostate. Why do you think Jesus should be different?.