₦airaland Forum

Before I start, I must say that I am not going to go into very detailed discussions here. I am just going to give a bird eye view of the history of Ife and Oyo as a whole.

However, note that what I am writing here is gleaned from books written by the earliest explorers that came to these part of the world, the records of the artifacts gotten recently from Ile ife, and other accounts as told by my uncles.

For anyone wondering, I am a descendant of Obatala, and while we don’t primarily stay anymore in Ifon Orolu Kingdom (which is where Obatala descendants resides till date), we founded the current kingdom where we dwell in, and thus, my family still hold a very important traditional role, and each time I visit my hometown, I asked questions.

Apart from asking questions, I read, I researched, and I use common sense.

Based on what I have learnt so far, here is what you should know about the relationship between the Old Ife Empire, the Old Oyo Empire, and who the Yorubas are.



Noticed I called Ife an empire.

Ife is indeed an empire, and it’s not a small empire.

Ife has been in existence for over 5000 years.

Ife was in existence during the time of King David and king Solomon of the Bible, and it’s a well known empire, encompassing the most of west Africa.

Ife has a big and popular market at that time (Igbomekun) that people came to from all part of the world to trade, so it’s a very big and well known empire.

However, it is not an empire founded on bloodletting, neither is it an empire founded on conquests.

Ife was a confederation.

Different primordial kings from this part of the world, speaking related languages came together to form the empire.


Each kings have their own kingdom that they rule over, and among these kings, an Olofin is chosen. The Olofin is like the supreme king.

Ile Ife is the headquarters of these kings, and they all have their base there.

While I can only remember the title “Olofin” for now, they have actually used different titles in the past, but the Olofin simply mean “one who resides in the dark”


Once an Olofin is chosen, he never sees the light of day till his death. The position is reverend as one who communicates between man and god.

Today, it was changed to Ooni. But then, it was known as Olofin, among many others.


Now, there are about 13 original rulers in the empire. But later on, 3 were added.


Some of the primary rulers have a family title.

Some family titles are Obalufon, Obamakin, Obatala, etc.

Notice they all have Oba in their name. Those names are not the name of a person, but the title of a family.

So, their descendants bear the titles for generations.

So, if history talks about Oduduwa fighting with Obatala, it’s only referring to a descendant of Obatala, not the first Obatala. Obatala is an acient being, that’s why he is widely worshiped as a god.

The history of Oduduwa is a very recent history.


In the earliest existence of Ife empire, Oduduwa was not born. Oduduwa was born in the very recent year. Oduduwa came into power around the same time Aladikun, the first born of the last Obatala heir founded Ifon Orolu.



So, as against popular belief, Oduduwa is not the progenitor of all yorubas. In fact, Oduduwa is not a Yoruba.

Also, the talks of Oduduwa and Obatala falling from the sky is fable. Africans are known for telling fables and even if as a child you believe in such fables, you should be old enough to know that no human falls from the sky, expect of course, if we are to believe that Obatala and co are star farers (similar to the Anunaki believes of the Sumerians)


Now, let me first talk about how Oyo came about.

In the last few hundred years, the Ife empire has dwindled considerably, mostly arising from internal tussles.

The current day Ife is not the original headquarter. It was shifted there.


In addition to internal tussles, the Ife people also faces fights from external forces. Remember, it’s a great empire and most western African counties traces their root here.



I am still trying to understand the direct descendant of Oduduwa, so I won’t say who his father is really.

However, Oduduwa came to power through fights. I think he fought with Obatala children to ascend the Olofin/Ooni throne.

After he came to power, the empire was greatly unstable.

So, before his death, he called some other kings in the empire to request for their help in case he died. He specifically asked them to support his son.


His son/grandson Oranyan, was also a warrior like his father. Because of the tussles at home, he left and was staying with the ruler of the most powerful kingdom at that time (Owu)

Yes, Otu Ife has disintegrated and new kingdoms have arised and dominated most other kingdoms at that time.

Olowu of Owu kingdom was using him and his army as a mercenary. So, Oranyan primarily base in Owu.

There is a detail here I don’t remember.

It’s either he was sent to Benin before he left for Owu or it was during his stay at Owu that he was called to go to Benin. But, it was during this time that he went to Benin and gave them an heir before returning.

He asked Olowu to give him a land when he returned and that was the first settlement. It wasn’t called Oyo at that time.

Soon after, he left for Ife to fight for the throne again, and he won.

(Someone should tell Wike’s aid that when Oranyam left for Ife. Oyo wasn’t an empire. In fact, Oyo wasn’t Oyo then.)


When he left. He left his son to oversee the kingdom.

I remember, the kingdom was known as Ajaka, after his first son

When Ajaka became king. He stopped paying taxes to the Olowu.

His argument, Owu is under Ife. And his father is the Olofin. So, he cannot pay tribute to Olowu.

Olowu captured him.

Sango was called to rescue them and he was installed as the new king.

After his death, Ajaka resumed his position again.

Note that Ajaka was not a weak man. The name Ajaka is not his birth name. It was a name given to a man that loves conquest. So for Ajaka to be called Ajaka, he is a known warrior.

Sango however, was the son of a family that descended from Oranfe. Oranfe is an acient being that plays with fire and thunder, so his mother people took him to their shrine and gave him the power.

However, Sango was able to use that power because he is a special being himself. He is intelligent and was credited to bringing some civilization to the old kingdom, which was then known as Ajaka.

For example, Sango cross bred plants to produce the bitter cola.

So, the power working for him was because he himself is special.

That’s that about the early days of the kingdom.



Now, the empire.

As times went on, the people that Oduduwa made covenant with (I can only remember Aresa for now, but they are major rulers then)

They all came together to form another confederation since the old Ife empire (a confederation also) has dwindled.

Then, they wanted to choose a leader, and they remember the covenant with Oduduwa, so they choose Oduduwa children to be the leader.

However, since this is a confederation, power must be balanced, and that gave birth to the Oyo Mesi.


So, if you have been wondering why the Oyo mesi’s, especially the Bashorun is so powerful, it’s because the Old Oyo empire is a confederation that shoots out of the old Ife empire. And the Oyo mesi’s are also important figures in founding the empire.


Now, some people are mentioning about Alaafin not having a crown.

Here is the story.


Alaafin have a crown.

They have the Sango crown and the Ajaka crown.

However, remember Oduduwa became an Olofin by fighting. I believe Oduduwa is not from the family that Origianlly form the Ife confederation.

I read an account of his descendants, but it’s the only account I have, so it’s not reliable.

The account says one of Oduduwa ancestors was a very close friend of Obatala (now, among the original founders of Ife, Obatala is very well revered, and is still worshipped till today)

The descendant was close to the then Obatala (remember Obatala is a family title).

Due to the closeness, Obatala gave him his daughter to marry. The marriage produce a son. The son did not live with his parent, he lives with Obatala, along with Obatala heir.


When the time comes for Obatala to assume the Olofin throne, that child from the female issue insists he is the rightful heir as he seniors Obatala heir.

There was a war between Obatala children and the ancestors of Oduduwa and eventually, Oduduwa ancestors won. And since then, they have been on the throne.

While I can’t verify the story, it lends credence to the special relationship that exists between Oduduwa children and Obatala children.

It’s also because of these relationships that Aladikun, the founder of the present day Ifon Orolu gave a crown to Alaafin.

Reports even have it that when Oduduwa was Olofin (Oduduwa and Aladikun where together), he gave special treatments to Aladikun and others where jealous of him, that’s why he left Ife to found Ifon Orolu kingdom.

Now, when Oduduwa died and his children are selected to be the leaders of the new confederation, they have not a mother crown.

Ife people have different type of crowns.

The mother crown, or “Ade isembaye” where those ones originally created and used by the first primitive leaders.

Obatala has his crown. Obalufon has. But, Oduduwa (according to report) is not descended from one of these settlers, so they don’t have.

That posses a problem because you cannot be the leader of the confederation without a crown to signify your legitimacy.

So, to help puts Oduduwa descendant on the throne, Aladikun gave them a crown.

So, that’s that about the song.

Alaafin have his own crown, but Aladikun gave him the mother crown, which is the Sefunfun crown.

I will attach a picture of the present Alaafin using the crown, which is adorned with Sango emblem.

Now, with anew confederation. The old Ife empire is gone. But, a law was made that the last of it must be protected.

Confederation is always form for protection. And even though the old empire is no more, the Alaafin must protect it. And the Alaafin still traces his roots to it.


Alaafin, along with his Oyo mesi’s work to expand the empire. While some other Ife kingdoms willingly join the new confederations, others were conquered and forced to pay tributes.

And that’s that about the Old Oyo empire.

It is a replication of the original Ife empire. And it’s made up of some of the original people from the old empire. And they protected the old empire.


Now, who are the Yorubas.

Every children of Ife have their languages. We are known as the children of “otu Ife”

Otu, meaning it’s well with us. So, we are generally regarded as the children of the land of Ife, that’s well with us.

So, who are the Yorubas?


Just like Ile Ife today has its settlers, the capital city of the new confederation (Old Oyo empire) also has its settlers. These are the people known as the Yorubas.

Oduduwa is not the father of every one that speaks the language that looks like Oyo language. Oduduwa is only the father of the Alaafins.

(That reminds me, the word Alaafin was originally Olofin, to follow the old Ife tradition, but Oyo people have a special way of speaking - The late Lamidi once said “only an Oyo understands what an Oyo says”)


So, the Yorubas are the people residing in the capital of the Old Oyo empire. Every one of us have our ancestry.


Now, regarding who is superior, should this even be a thing?


Is it not enough that Alaafin pays homage to his root?

I don’t see anything wrong in what Alaafin did. He is the new sheriff in town, and it’s his right to confer some traditional titles, especially if it’s linked to the Yoruba kingdoms or empire (whichever you choose to call it)

I also believe Alaafin Owoade is not in a power tussle with anyone. He is the son of his father, and he must protect his father legacy.


However, this is my opinion. To each his own.

I would have love to talk abut the present day Oyo. But, I don’t think it’s of use to this current topic.

Oyo empire is defunct

The present Oyo is Oyo atiba...

illicit:
Oyo empire is defunct

The present Oyo is Oyo atiba...

Ife Empire is also defunct.

It’s not a crime for Alaafin to uphold his father’s legacy.

The present day Oyo was still under the empire, and that’s why Atiba was able to settled there.

Moreove, the original founder is a son of Ifon Orolu, so Atiba settling in Agooja is like a cousin settling in the land of his relative.

The current Alago lives in peace alongside the Alaafin, so stop bringing up this topic.

They all protected the land together, and I think the present day Oyo is one of the only few Yoruba lands that was never sacked by the Fulanis.

Fryx:
Ife Empire is also defunct.

I think I should end my story at the present day Oyo.

I will update this trade when I am less busy.

There are characteristics of a state

One is territory, another is permanence

Ife has always been in ife

Oyo has lost territory, permanence and even recognition

illicit:
There are characteristics of a state

One is territory, another is permanence

Ife has always been in ife

Oyo has lost territory, permanence and even recognition

Stop spewing rubbish. Ife was originally situated among the Ekiti people.

I don’t even know why I am engaging you.

Fryx:
Before I start, I must say that I am not going to go into very detailed discussions here. I am just going to give a bird eye view of the history of Ife and Oyo as a whole.

However, note that what I am writing here is gleaned from books written by the earliest explorers that came to these part of the world, the records of the artifacts gotten recently from Ile ife, and other accounts as told by my uncles.

For anyone wondering, I am a descendant of Obatala, and while we don’t primarily stay anymore in Ifon Orolu Kingdom (which is where Obatala descendants resides till date), we founded the current kingdom where we dwell in, and thus, my family still hold a very important traditional role, and each time I visit my hometown, I asked questions.

Apart from asking questions, I read, I researched, and I use common sense.

Based on what I have learnt so far, here is what you should know about the relationship between the Old Ife Empire, the Old Oyo Empire, and who the Yorubas are.



Noticed I called Ife an empire.

Ife is indeed an empire, and it’s not a small empire.

Ife has been in existence for over 5000 years.

Ife was in existence during the time of King David and king Solomon of the Bible, and it’s a well known empire, encompassing the most of west Africa.

Ife has a big and popular market at that time (Igbomekun) that people came to from all part of the world to trade, so it’s a very big and well known empire.

However, it is not an empire founded on bloodletting, neither is it an empire founded on conquests.

Ife was a confederation.

Different primordial kings from this part of the world, speaking related languages came together to form the empire.


Each kings have their own kingdom that they rule over, and among these kings, an Olofin is chosen. The Olofin is like the supreme king.

Ile Ife is the headquarters of these kings, and they all have their base there.

While I can only remember the title “Olofin” for now, they have actually used different titles in the past, but the Olofin simply mean “one who resides in the dark”


Once an Olofin is chosen, he never sees the light of day till his death. The position is reverend as one who communicates between man and god.

Today, it was changed to Ooni. But then, it was known as Olofin, among many others.


Now, there are about 13 original rulers in the empire. But later on, 3 were added.


Some of the primary rulers have a family title.

Some family titles are Obalufon, Obamakin, Obatala, etc.

Notice they all have Oba in their name. Those names are not the name of a person, but the title of a family.

So, their descendants bear the titles for generations.

So, if history talks about Oduduwa fighting with Obatala, it’s only referring to a descendant of Obatala, not the first Obatala. Obatala is an acient being, that’s why he is widely worshiped as a god.

The history of Oduduwa is a very recent history.


In the earliest existence of Ife empire, Oduduwa was not born. Oduduwa was born in the very recent year. Oduduwa came into power around the same time Aladikun, the first born of the last Obatala heir founded Ifon Orolu.



So, as against popular belief, Oduduwa is not the progenitor of all yorubas. In fact, Oduduwa is not a Yoruba.

Also, the talks of Oduduwa and Obatala falling from the sky is fable. Africans are known for telling fables and even if as a child you believe in such fables, you should be old enough to know that no human falls from the sky, expect of course, if we are to believe that Obatala and co are star farers (similar to the Anunaki believes of the Sumerians)


Now, let me first talk about how Oyo came about.

In the last few hundred years, the Ife empire has dwindled considerably, mostly arising from internal tussles.

The current day Ife is not the original headquarter. It was shifted there.


In addition to internal tussles, the Ife people also faces fights from external forces. Remember, it’s a great empire and most western African counties traces their root here.



I am still trying to understand the direct descendant of Oduduwa, so I won’t say who his father is really.

However, Oduduwa came to power through fights. I think he fought with Obatala children to ascend the Olofin/Ooni throne.

After he came to power, the empire was greatly unstable.

So, before his death, he called some other kings in the empire to request for their help in case he died. He specifically asked them to support his son.


His son/grandson Oranyan, was also a warrior like his father. Because of the tussles at home, he left and was staying with the ruler of the most powerful kingdom at that time (Owu)

Yes, Otu Ife has disintegrated and new kingdoms have arised and dominated most other kingdoms at that time.

Olowu of Owu kingdom was using him and his army as a mercenary. So, Oranyan primarily base in Owu.

There is a detail here I don’t remember.

It’s either he was sent to Benin before he left for Owu or it was during his stay at Owu that he was called to go to Benin. But, it was during this time that he went to Benin and gave them an heir before returning.

He asked Olowu to give him a land when he returned and that was the first settlement. It wasn’t called Oyo at that time.

Soon after, he left for Ife to fight for the throne again, and he won.

(Someone should tell Wike’s aid that when Oranyam left for Ife. Oyo wasn’t an empire. In fact, Oyo wasn’t Oyo then.)


When he left. He left his son to oversee the kingdom.

I remember, the kingdom was known as Ajaka, after his first son

When Ajaka became king. He stopped paying taxes to the Olowu.

His argument, Owu is under Ife. And his father is the Olofin. So, he cannot pay tribute to Olowu.

Olowu captured him.

Sango was called to rescue them and he was installed as the new king.

After his death, Ajaka resumed his position again.

Note that Ajaka was not a weak man. The name Ajaka is not his birth name. It was a name given to a man that loves conquest. So for Ajaka to be called Ajaka, he is a known warrior.

Sango however, was the son of a family that descended from Oranfe. Oranfe is an acient being that plays with fire and thunder, so his mother people took him to their shrine and gave him the power.

However, Sango was able to use that power because he is a special being himself. He is intelligent and was credited to bringing some civilization to the old kingdom, which was then known as Ajaka.

For example, Sango cross bred plants to produce the bitter cola.

So, the power working for him was because he himself is special.

That’s that about the early days of the kingdom.



Now, the empire.

As times went on, the people that Oduduwa made covenant with (I can only remember Aresa for now, but they are major rulers then)

They all came together to form another confederation since the old Ife empire (a confederation also) has dwindled.

Then, they wanted to choose a leader, and they remember the covenant with Oduduwa, so they choose Oduduwa children to be the leader.

However, since this is a confederation, power must be balanced, and that gave birth to the Oyo Mesi.


So, if you have been wondering why the Oyo mesi’s, especially the Bashorun is so powerful, it’s because the Old Oyo empire is a confederation that shoots out of the old Ife empire. And the Oyo mesi’s are also important figures in founding the empire.


Now, some people are mentioning about Alaafin not having a crown.

Here is the story.


Alaafin have a crown.

They have the Sango crown and the Ajaka crown.

However, remember Oduduwa became an Olofin by fighting. I believe Oduduwa is not from the family that Origianlly form the Ife confederation.

I read an account of his descendants, but it’s the only account I have, so it’s not reliable.

The account says one of Oduduwa ancestors was a very close friend of Obatala (now, among the original founders of Ife, Obatala is very well revered, and is still worshipped till today)

The descendant was close to the then Obatala (remember Obatala is a family title).

Due to the closeness, Obatala gave him his daughter to marry. The marriage produce a son. The son did not live with his parent, he lives with Obatala, along with Obatala heir.


When the time comes for Obatala to assume the Olofin throne, that child from the female issue insists he is the rightful heir as he seniors Obatala heir.

There was a war between Obatala children and the ancestors of Oduduwa and eventually, Oduduwa ancestors won. And since then, they have been on the throne.

While I can’t verify the story, it lends credence to the special relationship that exists between Oduduwa children and Obatala children.

It’s also because of these relationships that Aladikun, the founder of the present day Ifon Orolu gave a crown to Alaafin.

Reports even have it that when Oduduwa was Olofin (Oduduwa and Aladikun where together), he gave special treatments to Aladikun and others where jealous of him, that’s why he left Ife to found Ifon Orolu kingdom.

Now, when Oduduwa died and his children are selected to be the leaders of the new confederation, they have not a mother crown.

Ife people have different type of crowns.

The mother crown, or “Ade isembaye” where those ones originally created and used by the first primitive leaders.

Obatala has his crown. Obalufon has. But, Oduduwa (according to report) is not descended from one of these settlers, so they don’t have.

That posses a problem because you cannot be the leader of the confederation without a crown to signify your legitimacy.

So, to help puts Oduduwa descendant on the throne, Aladikun gave them a crown.

So, that’s that about the song.

Alaafin have his own crown, but Aladikun gave him the mother crown, which is the Sefunfun crown.

I will attach a picture of the present Alaafin using the crown, which is adorned with Sango emblem.

Now, with anew confederation. The old Ife empire is gone. But, a law was made that the last of it must be protected.

Confederation is always form for protection. And even though the old empire is no more, the Alaafin must protect it. And the Alaafin still traces his roots to it.


Alaafin, along with his Oyo mesi’s work to expand the empire. While some other Ife kingdoms willingly join the new confederations, others were conquered and forced to pay tributes.

And that’s that about the Old Oyo empire.

It is a replication of the original Ife empire. And it’s made up of some of the original people from the old empire. And they protected the old empire.


Now, who are the Yorubas.

Every children of Ife have their languages. We are known as the children of “otu Ife”

Otu, meaning it’s well with us. So, we are generally regarded as the children of the land of Ife, that’s well with us.

So, who are the Yorubas?


Just like Ile Ife today has its settlers, the capital city of the new confederation (Old Oyo empire) also has its settlers. These are the people known as the Yorubas.

Oduduwa is not the father of every one that speaks the language that looks like Oyo language. Oduduwa is only the father of the Alaafins.

(That reminds me, the word Alaafin was originally Olofin, to follow the old Ife tradition, but Oyo people have a special way of speaking - The late Lamidi once said “only an Oyo understands what an Oyo says”)


So, the Yorubas are the people residing in the capital of the Old Oyo empire. Every one of us have our ancestry.


Now, regarding who is superior, should this even be a thing?


Is it not enough that Alaafin pays homage to his root?

I don’t see anything wrong in what Alaafin did. He is the new sheriff in town, and it’s his right to confer some traditional titles, especially if it’s linked to the Yoruba kingdoms or empire (whichever you choose to call it)

I also believe Alaafin Owoade is not in a power tussle with anyone. He is the son of his father, and he must protect his father legacy.


However, this is my opinion. To each his own.

I would have love to talk abut the present day Oyo. But, I don’t think it’s of use to this current topic.

I am sorry to say this is unnecessary and does not add any value even if is 100% true which is unlikely

The current king in Yoruba land that part which is in Nigeria is the government of Nigeria and that part which is in Benin Republic is the government of Benin . Any other king is just by mouth they are appointees of a subnational government
What Obasanjo did commanding them to stand and sit. That is their position

Everything you are recounting above is irrelevant

If somehow Nigeria broke up it is not automatic that the Yoruba must aggregate into one country
If Yoruba did aggregate into one country it would never ve under Alaafin or Ooni of Ife
So of what contemporary relevance is all that story
I am from Lagos state I have no interest in Alaafin of Oyo or Ooni of Ife as overlords
No less than in bringing back the British

The bitter truth is that to me Elegushi or Oba of Lagos are more relevant

There is no point. SPENDING SO MUCH ENERGY TO PROVE WHAT DOES NOT MATTER


All that storysimply DOES NOT MATTER

It has no relevance today

You sound like someone trying to prove the King of England is superior to the President of America
The Britiish empire is former champion
America is current champion

Oyo is former champion
Ibadan is more relevant
Let us understand the difference between Yoruba land and Yorubaland


There is nothing like Yorubaland and there never will be

Another Oyo ife story. Lol.

Oyo empire only reigned for 200 years. Ibadan were the new sheriff in town till the British interfered.

After the amalgation of Nigeria, there is no new sheriff in town anymore.

aribisala0:
I am sorry to say this is unnecessary and d9es not add any value even if is 100% which is unlikely

The current king in Yoruba land that part which is in Nigeria is the government of Nigeria and that part which is in Benin Republic is the government of Benin

Everything you are recounting above is irrelevant

If somehow Nigeria broke up it is not automatic that the Yoruba must aggregate into one country
8f Yoruba did aggregate into one country it would never ve under Alaafin or Ooni of Ife
So of what contemporary relevance is all that story
I am from Lagos state I have no interest in Alaafin of Oyo or Ooni of Ife as overlords
No less than in bringing back the British

The bitter truth is that to me Elegushi or Oba of Lagos are more relevant

There is no point. SPENDING SO MUCH ENERGY TO PROVE WHAT DOES NOT MATTER


All that storysimply DOES NOT MATTER

It has no relevance today
Let us understand the difference between Yoruba land and Yorubaland


There is nothing like Yorubaland and there never will be

Imagine the Romans saying their history is not relevant, considering how much impact their civilization have on the world today.

Don’t push me.

Fryx:
Stop spewing rubbish. Ife was originally situated among the Ekiti people.

I don’t even know why I am engaging you.

Oh my bad...

I thought this is a class, I now realize it's a one man talking to himself thingy

Enjoy yourself

aribisala0:
I am sorry to say this is unnecessary and does not add any value even if is 100% true which is unlikely

The current king in Yoruba land that part which is in Nigeria is the government of Nigeria and that part which is in Benin Republic is the government of Benin

Everything you are recounting above is irrelevant

If somehow Nigeria broke up it is not automatic that the Yoruba must aggregate into one country
8f Yoruba did aggregate into one country it would never ve under Alaafin or Ooni of Ife
So of what contemporary relevance is all that story
I am from Lagos state I have no interest in Alaafin of Oyo or Ooni of Ife as overlords
No less than in bringing back the British

The bitter truth is that to me Elegushi or Oba of Lagos are more relevant

There is no point. SPENDING SO MUCH ENERGY TO PROVE WHAT DOES NOT MATTER


All that storysimply DOES NOT MATTER

It has no relevance today

You sound like someone trying to prove the King of England is superior to the President of America
The Britiish empire is former champion
America is current champion

Oyo is former champion
Ibadan is more relevant
Let us understand the difference between Yoruba land and Yorubaland


There is nothing like Yorubaland and there never will be

Same here. I respect my Olu of Iju Ishaga over any other kings.

Goodvibes007:
Another Oyo ife story. Lol.

Oyo empire only reigned for 200 years. Ibadan were the new sheriff in town till the British interfered.

After the amalgation of Nigeria, there is no new sheriff in town anymore.

Ibadan that Alaafin gave a Bashorun to oversee them or what?


Ibadan that takes order from Alaafin Atiba or what?

Ibadan, whose citizen comprises of the old empire or what?

Fryx:
Ibadan that Alaafin gave a Bashorun to oversee them or what?


Ibadan that takes order from Alaafin Atiba or what?

Ibadan, whose citizen comprises of the old empire or what?

Ibadan is made up of several yoruba groups. Infact, it was founded by an Ife man.
Ibadans became a mini empire of its own. Kiriji war they fought was for themselves and not for Alaafin.

Fryx:
Imagine the Romans saying their history is not relevant, considering how much impact their civilization have on the world today.

Don’t push me.

I did not say it is nit relevant at all
It is not relevant to the issue at hand so please stop gaslighting

This is not a history thread

It is a matter OF HISTORY that the English once upon a time owned America

That fact is not relevant to a discussion on Whether the current US President is superior to King of England

So spare us the pity story

My point is simple

The Olubadan of Ibadan, Oba of Lagos are more relevant than Alaafin of Oyo

Fryx:
Ife Empire is also defunct.

It’s not a crime for Alaafin to uphold his father’s legacy.

The present day Oyo was still under the empire, and that’s why Atiba was able to settled there.

Moreove, the original founder is a son of Ifon Orolu, so Atiba settling in Agooja is like a cousin settling in the land of his relative.

The current Alago lives in peace alongside the Alaafin, so stop bringing up this topic.

They all protected the land together, and I think the present day Oyo is one of the only few Yoruba lands that was never sacked by the Fulanis.

When you mean “present day”, can you tell us the periods referred to or dates? When you say “present day”, you leave people confused. You entire post lacks dates and makes it not appear specific, or perhaps a guess.

ElevationD:
When you mean “present day”, can you tell us the periods referred to or dates? When you say “present day”, you leave people confused. You entire post lacks dates and makes it not appear specific, or perhaps a guess.

Yes. I have already said it at the beginning that it’s going to be a bird eye view.

The current Oyo was settled in by Atiba when the old empire was overridden with Fulani raids and everyone started deserting it.



I am in the middle of work, and if I want to provide dates, I have to fact check all the dates, and I currently don’t have the luxury of time.

Present days refers to the period just before the British came.

aribisala0:
I did not say it is nit relevant at all
It is not relevant to the issue at hand so please stop gaslighting

This is not a history thread

It is a matter OF HISTORY that the English once upon a time owned America

That fact is not relevant to a discussion on Whether the current US President is superior to King of England

So spare us the pity story

My point is simple

The Olubadan of Ibadan, Oba of Lagos are more relevant than Alaafin of Oyo

Then, learn to read before you comment. I clearly stated up there that the debates of supremacy is not relevant. They each have the duty to protect r their legacy.


As the children of Ife, we should work together for the growth of our race, not needless debates.


I wrote that history to enlighten people. Not to foster the debate

Fryx:
Then, learn to read before you comment. I clearly stated up there that the debates of supremacy is not relevant. They each have the duty to protect r their legacy.


As the children of Ife, we should work together for the growth of our race, not needless debates.


I wrote that history to enlighten people. Not to foster the debate

the topic of your thread suggests otherwise
It is not relevant because there is no so called factyou introduced hate is incontrovertible
Everything your wrote you read somewhere
You are not a witness to anything you wro5e

aribisala0:
the topic of your thread suggests otherwise
It is not relevant because there is no so called factyou introduced hate is incontrovertible
Everything your wrote you read somewhere
You are not a witness to anything you wro5e

Wrong.

I am a drug addict.

I was high.

I picked my phone up and started writing under the influence.

Fryx:
Then, learn to read before you comment. I clearly stated up there that the debates of supremacy is not relevant. They each have the duty to protect r their legacy.


As the children of Ife, we should work together for the growth of our race, not needless debates.


I wrote that history to enlighten people. Not to foster the debate

the topic of your thread suggests otherwise
It is not relevant because there is no so called factyou introduced here that is incontrovertible
Everything your wrote you read somewhere
You are not a witness to anything you wrote

You wrote once an Olofin is chosen he would not see light of day till his death

How do you know this?

All these silly stories need to stop and the timing of your stories is just pure mischief

It is just like the story of what happens in heaven
None of us has died before

Everything you think you know about Yoruba history was written in the last 150 years about things that may have happened 1000 years ago

Even things that happened in 2023 are disputed at a time when we have Internet much more when everyone was illiterate

Absolute rubbish and nothing else. You Oyo centric guys should give this matter a rest. No one recognizes your Alaafin outside of Oyo Ago Oja. Even in Oyo state, he dare not talk when the Olubadan is talking.

Oyo empire died a long time ago and it remains dead just like a lot of other empires that once existed. As at today, the Ooni at Ile Ife is the only king majority of Yoruba people can still trace their ancestry to. You can’t force people who have nothing to do with your Alaafin to recognize him. He either earns it through conquest or stop embarrassing himself.

Finally, no king has the power to appoint any chief for the entirety of Yoruba land. Not Ooni, not Alaafin. Historically, there was never a Yorubaland as one nation. So, the idea of any king conferring a title that covers all of Yoruba land is a joke taking too far. You all should just stop please.

Fryx:
Yes. I have already said it at the beginning that it’s going to be a bird eye view.

The current Oyo was settled in by Atiba when the old empire was overridden with Fulani raids and everyone started deserting it.



I am in the middle of work, and if I want to provide dates, I have to fact check all the dates, and I currently don’t have the luxury of time.

Present days refers to the period just before the British came.

When you say bird’s eye view, it means that you see it clearly.

“Present day refers to the period just before the British came”. You are leaving your readers to guess. That’s bad history writing. Historians do not talk of “luxury of time”. They give accurate or close to accurate information about given subject matters in history. Infact, part of history is dates. If you have not found the dates referred to and you so far have not fact checked, why then the hurry to give us the story? Give us correct details on dates to back up your assertions and disprove the claim of other historians please. Finally, your narration seems quite jumpy or uncoordinated.

Thank you for your effort anyway.

ElevationD:
When you say bird’s eye view, it means that you see it clearly.

“Present day refers to the period just before the British came”. You are leaving your readers to guess. That’s bad history writing. Historians do not talk of “luxury of time”. They give accurate or close to accurate information about given subject matters in history. Infact, part of history is dates. If you have not found the dates referred to and you so far have not fact checked, why then the hurry to give us the story? Give us correct details on dates to back up your assertions and disprove the claim of other historians please. Finally, your narration seems quite jumpy or uncoordinated.

Thank you for your effort anyway.

Look. I am not here to lecture you.

I gave an information.

If you need details, do your own research or ask.

If I can’t answer it, I will tell you where to find it.

I am not a teacher. I am terrible at that. I hate people asking me questions. It only angers me.


The same people that believes the Bible hook, line and sinker, and the Quran too even when the people that wrote about heaven never died before are here questioning me.

I hate questions.

If I said something, I have done my own research. Do your own.

aribisala0:
the topic of your thread suggests otherwise
It is not relevant because there is no so called factyou introduced here that is incontrovertible
Everything your wrote you read somewhere
You are not a witness to anything you wrote

You wrote once an Olofin is chosen he would not see light of day till his death

How do you know this?

All these silly stories need to stop and the timing of your stories is just pure mischief

It is just like the story of what happens in heaven
None of us has died before

Everything you think you know about Yoruba history was written in the last 150 years about things that may have happened 1000 years ago

Even things that happened in 2023 are disputed at a time when we have Internet much more when everyone was illiterate

Do you know how you sounded?

So, people that travelled all the way from their country to write down what they saw, and whose record is still existing don’t know what they wrote down.

Even the ancient Egypt have surviving records till date, you must really think everyone one have the same matter to the one inside your cranium.



Are you paying me to be lecturing you that I have to take time to start giving all the references?


And regarding an Olofin/Ooni not leaving the palace, that’s well known fact.

The first Ooni to left the Palace was Oba Olubusi 1, who reigns between 1894 and 1910.



The Akarigbo of Ijebu Remo and the Elepe of Epe were disputing over crown.



In the year 1903, Sir William McGregor, the then Governor of the southern protectorate wanted to settle the disputes.

They asked who wa the leader then, and they referred him to the Alaafin.

Alaafin sent an emissary, but matters relating to the crown is beyond Alaafin so his mediation was rejected.

When Alaafin learnt it was regarding the crown, he referred the government to the Ooni of Ife.

Even at that time, not even Ooni chiefs sees him after he ascend the throne. Only very close palace servants and relatives sees him. That’s the tradition.


When the British could not see him, because they said it’s the tradition. He has to use sentiment.

He told him that if it’s right for a father to allow his children kill themselves all because of traditions.

Because of these, the tradition was changed.

But, even at that, a lot of money was spent to bring Ooni out of the palace.

On leaving the Palace, every kings, including the Alaafin vacated the palace because since Ooni is not in the palace, it’s a taboo for other kings to be in the palace.

On the way, several cows where killed to placate the gods, lights where pits out and people where forbidden to look out.

That’s a well documented record,


It didn’t happen in 2023,

But we know it’s the truth.

Because, we keep records.


Google is your friend if that thing that sits on your neck is still struggling to understand.

Imagine if it was eze nri and eze aro fighting this supremacy battle. Yorubas would have carried it on their head like agbo

These people are still fighting for supremacy battles ? Onni Vs Allafin. In this 21st century

stanluiz:
These people are still fighting for supremacy battles ? Onni Vs Allafin. In this 21st century

The Ooni is not fighting anyone. Man wants to live his life and marry as many beautiful women as possible. Na Alaafin dey look for trouble when there is none.

Fryx:
Do you know how you sounded?

So, people that travelled all the way from their country to write down what they saw, and whose record is still existing don’t know what they wrote down.

Even the ancient Egypt have surviving records till date, you must really think everyone one have the same matter to the one inside your cranium.



Are you paying me to be lecturing you that I have to take time to start giving all the references?


And regarding an Olofin/Ooni not leaving the palace, that’s well known fact.

The first Ooni to left the Palace was Oba Olubusi 1, who reigns between 1894 and 1910.



The Akarigbo of Ijebu Remo and the Elepe of Epe were disputing over crown.



In the year 1903, Sir William McGregor, the then Governor of the southern protectorate wanted to settle the disputes.

They asked who wa the leader then, and they referred him to the Alaafin.

Alaafin sent an emissary, but matters relating to the crown is beyond Alaafin so his mediation was rejected.

When Alaafin learnt it was regarding the crown, he referred the government to the Ooni of Ife.

Even at that time, not even Ooni chiefs sees him after he ascend the throne. Only very close palace servants and relatives sees him. That’s the tradition.


When the British could not see him, because they said it’s the tradition. He has to use sentiment.

He told him that if it’s right for a father to allow his children kill themselves all because of traditions.

Because of these, the tradition was changed.

But, even at that, a lot of money was spent to bring Ooni out of the palace.

On leaving the Palace, every kings, including the Alaafin vacated the palace because since Ooni is not in the palace, it’s a taboo for other kings to be in the palace.

On the way, several cows where killed to placate the gods, lights where pits out and people where forbidden to look out.

That’s a well documented record,


It didn’t happen in 2023,

But we know it’s the truth.

Because, we keep records.


Google is your friend if that thing that sits on your neck is still struggling to understand.

All these stories are hearsay
You are not a witness
Crucially it DOES NOT MATTER

I am from Lagos State
The Alaafin and all these tales are totally inconsequential in my life whether true or not I do not care
The Oyo Empire is dead . The Oba of Lagos is more relevant

Fryx:
Wrong.

I am a drug addict.

I was high.

I picked my phone up and started writing under the influence.

I know

Rubbish supremacy empty battle. As long as nobody’s land and wives were stolen. Nobody cares. If Alaafin is bored in his palace, he should go and farm and ginger his people with projects, scholarships and skill acquisition.