₦airaland Forum

FxMasterz:
Exposing the Paganism in Non-Trinitarianism

Non-Trinitarians often boast of “pure monotheism,” but what they end up with is worse than polytheism. Their doctrine forces Scripture into contradictions—producing two Lords, two Kings, two Creators, two Saviors etc. That is nothing but paganism disguised in Christian language. Let us expose this folly with the Scriptures they cannot refute.

1. Are there two Kings of kings?

Psalm 47:2 – “For the LORD Most High is terrible; He is a great King over all the earth.”

Revelation 19:16 – Of Christ: “And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Question: Are there two Kings of kings ruling the universe, or is this one divine title shared by Father and Son because they are one in essence? If you claim two Kings of kings, you’ve fallen into polytheism.

2. Are there two Lords?

Deuteronomy 10:17 – “For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords...”

1 Corinthians 8:6 – “...and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him.”

Question: Can the universe have two “Lords of lords”? Scripture insists there is only one Lord (Eph. 4:5). If both Father and Son are called Lord of lords, they are not two, but one Lord.

3. Are there two worshiped in heaven?

Psalm 97:7 – “Worship Him, all ye gods.” (Quoted in Hebrews 1:6 about Jesus: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”)

Revelation 5:13-14 – Both the Father and the Lamb receive the same worship: “Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever.”

Question: If God alone is to be worshiped (Ex. 34:14), how can the Lamb also be worshiped together with the Father unless they share the same divine essence? Two worshiped beings = paganism. One worshiped God in Trinity = Christianity.

4. Are there two Saviors?

Isaiah 43:11 – “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour.”

Titus 2:13 – “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.”

Question: If God alone is Savior, and Jesus is also Savior, are there two redeemers of mankind? Impossible. One divine Savior—Father revealed through the Son.

5. Are there two Shepherds of our souls?

Psalm 23:1 – “The LORD is my Shepherd; I shall not want.”

1 Peter 2:25 – “But are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls” (referring to Christ).

Question: Shall our souls be guided by two different Shepherds? Or is this one eternal Shepherd God, revealed in Father and Son? To claim two Shepherds is again paganism.

6. Are there two fountains of living waters?

Jeremiah 2:13 – God said, “They have forsaken Me the fountain of living waters...”

John 7:38 – Jesus: “He that believeth on Me... out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”

"In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (John 1:4

Question: If Jehovah is the Fountain of living waters, and Christ is also the Fountain, are there two Sources of life? Or one Fountain shared by Father and Son?

7. Are there two Creators?

Isaiah 44:24 – God said, “I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone...”

God stretched the heavens alone.

John 1:3 – “All things were made by Him [the Word/Christ]; and without Him was not anything made that was made.”

Colossians 1:15-17 - Talking about Christ, the Scriptures say, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together".

Question: Did God not stretch the heavens alone? Did He not do all creations alone? How then did we see Christ seemingly supporting Him? Was God lying? No. God is Christ and Christ is God. If you say they're two different persons, which Christ supporting God at creation, you make God a liar for saying He did all of creation alone. Can there be two Creators of heaven and earth? No. There is only one Creator. Thus the Father and Son are not separate gods but one divine Creator.

8. The Kingdom belongs to ‘Our Lord and His Christ,’ yet only one reigns

Revelation 11:15 – “The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.”

Notice carefully: Even though it says the Kingdom of this world has become that of Our Lord and of His Christ (seemingly two persons), it doesn’t say they shall reign—but He shall reign. Two Person Kingdom, yet one divine 'He' reigning. Both God and Christ reign forever and ever over the whole universe, but there are no two Kings but one.

Conclusion: Father and Son are not two rival rulers but share one throne, one reign, one eternal sovereignty.

9. Are there two Judges?

The Father as Judge: “God is a righteous judge, and God is angry with the wicked every day.” (Psalm 7:11)

“For God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.” (Psalm 75:7)

"Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25).

Christ as Judge:

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.” (John 5:22). Was the Scripture lying to have previously called God the Judge?

“…we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ…” (2 Corinthians 5:10)

The Question

So, are there two Judges?

The OT says God is Judge.

The NT says Christ is Judge.

Jesus even said the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son.

Then what do we have? One Judge who is both God and Christ.

This collapses the non-Trinitarian claim of separation because two different Persons cannot both be the only Judge.

Final Question

If Father and Son both share titles, worship, and attributes that cannot be duplicated (King of kings, Lord of lords, Creator, Savior, Fountain of Life, Shepherd, Judge, then non-Trinitarians must answer:

Are there two gods—or is the mystery of the Trinity the only way to resolve this divine unity?

Anything else is not monotheism. It is nothing short of paganism.

CC: TenQ, Ken4Christ, Gabrielshow24, Image123, Emusan, DoWhatThouWilt, SarcasticWords, FreeIgboho, Janosky

Ken4Christ:
There's no way they can understand spiritual truth unless they are born again.

Ken4Christ:
Don't waste your time on Boomark and his ignorant colleagues. There's no way they can understand spiritual truth unless they are born again.

They are in the dark trying to understand light. It's not possible.

Truthseeker10:
1)So in other words your paraphrase was a lie....Jesus did not say "son of man to be glorified".

2) you claimed I added "without eyes" to your statement. That is also a lie by virtue of the screenshot below.

FxMasterz:
Call it what you may. An oversight can be termed a lie for your argument purposes. My paraphrase was what I remembered about the verse. I quoted it offhand. I even said John 10, instead of John 9. That too was a lie. When you quoted the verse out, I saw that the verse even said something much more deeper than I thought. It validated the points I was making more than the paraphrase. Call it a lie if that suits you well.



You are lying of course. Show me where I said you added that to my statement? I said you added that to the verse as though that was how I quoted it. I know you deliberately framed your post to indicate I said "my statement" in order to deceive. After I alleged that I didn't quote that in the verse, I then continued to buttrress the statement. I never denied making the statement but denied making it part of the verse as you did. If I denied making the statement, how come I went ahead to establish what you said I denied?

Why do you like deceit?

Truthseeker10:
1)This was your exact statement in bold below.

Jesus had to answer them that it was for the Son of man to be glorified that that man was born blind, without eyes.

So am I not justified to ask you where Jesus mentioned "it was for the son of man to be glorified that that man was born blind, without eyes" in the biblical passage that you are referencing?

2)You want me to believe your Ai submission to validated your interpretation of John 9:7, but you've refused to admit that the Ai info below is also correct that your submission that God is one person is a contradiction to certain biblical references.

3)You've also refuse to show us where Genesis 2:7 mentioned God putting soul into Adam?

FxMasterz:
I did not quote the Scripture. I was only talking about that scripture and laid a foundation for what I wanted to say. I then went on to explain that the man was said to be without eye sockets.


My submission is not AI submission. Why should I depend on your AI to know the Word of God?



When did you and I discuss about soul inside Adam?

Truthseeker10:
1)Does the Bible say that the man was without eyes? If no did you not show me through Ai that some people acknowledged that he was without eyes?

2)Is the Ai info below correct that your submission that God is one person is a contradiction to certain biblical references.

3)Did you not claim that man is made up of three seperate parts? Kindly show us where the bible says so

Ken4Christ:
Don't waste your time on Boomark and his ignorant colleagues. There's no way they can understand spiritual truth unless they are born again.

They are in the dark trying to understand light. It's not possible.

FxMasterz:
Is the Bible a history book? Don't we use AI for research? Is AI used for interpreting the Bible as you did? If AI is your interepreter, then what were you before AI. I only used AI to tell tell the historical facts most scholars believe about the man. My knowledge of that fact didn't come from AI actually. I only queried AI about it in hope it would tell you something behind the man's history.

Yes, I did. If I show you Scriptures, would you believe? The ones I already showed you here are from the Quran?

I wouldn't want to go into arguments regarding the Spirit, Soul and Body of man. If you're ignorant, remain ignorant if you wish. These are the Scriptures, you can wrest them as you did all the ones on my threads.

1 Thessalonians 5:23:
"May your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Hebrews 4:12:
"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit."

Matthew 10:28:
"Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

There are several other Scriptures but if you cannot learn from the above, you will still not learn even from a thousand Scriptures.

Janosky:

Please provide evidence in your bible where your Jesus Christ worshipped 3 persons.

You just want to deceive yourself .

Ken4Christ:
Jesus Christ is worshipped alongside with God the Father. Don’t tell me you are not aware of this.

Janosky:
Please provide evidence in your bible where your Jesus Christ worshipped 3 persons. You just want to deceive yourself.

MaxInDHouse:
You people don't know something and instead of humbly learning you arrogantly argue blindly yet nothing to show for your religion.
The scriptures say faithful people must obey Jesus in connection with his father because there are things Jesus taught that may not be fully understood by the reader but when you go back to compare with God's laws in the OT you will get the clear picture.
For instance Jesus taught his disciples to stand as no part of the world {John 17:14} does this mean they will be taken out of the world to another destination? John 17:15
NO! So what does Jesus mean by saying his disciples are no part of the world?
Jesus said they belong to God's Kingdom {Matthew 6:10} so while others are still fighting over who should rule them Jesus' true disciples will separate themselves as subjects of God's Kingdom under Christ's reign so that they have nothing to share with Satan and his agents who the rulers of darkness. Satan knows different tactics to get people involved in the fightings and killings ongoing throughout the world {Revelations 6:3-4} but when Jesus' disciples put on the spiritual armor Satan can't beat them intellectually {Ephesians 6:10-12} and turn them against their neighbors or fellow believers which means they are now fully on his side as killers! John 8:44

That's what obeisance to Christ and God means not worshiping two Gods!

Ken4Christ:
Answer the question: Are there not scriptures where Jesus is worshipped? Yes/No. Stop beating around the bush.

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
That's misinterpretation only the father is our God says Jesus himself! John 20:17

Ken4Christ:
See overwhelming evidence of Scripture where Jesus is worshipped. Angels were also commanded to worship Him

1. Matthew 2:11
"And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, AND WORSHIPPED HIM: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh."

2. Matthew 8:2
"And, behold, there came a leper AND WORSHIPPED HIM, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean."

3. Matthew 9:18
"While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, AND WORSHIPPED HIM, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live."

4. Matthew 14:33
"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

5. Matthew 15:25
"Then came she AND WORSHIPPED HIM, saying, Lord, help me."

6. Matthew 28:9
"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, AND WORSHIPPED HIM."

7. Matthew 28:17
"And when they saw him, they WORSHIPPED HIM: but some doubted."

8. John 9:38
"And he said, Lord, I believe. And he WORSHIPPED HIM."

More Scriptures

Angels were commanded to Worship Jesus

9. Hebrews 1:6
"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM"

10. Revelation 5:11-13
"And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, WORTHY IS THE LAMB that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing ...Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be UNTO HIM THAT SITTETH UPON THE THRONE, AND UNTO THE LAMB FOR EVER AND EVER."

11. Revelation 7:10
"And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, AND UNTO THE LAMB."

Note.
The word worship is translated from the same Greek word proskuneo even in instances where it was directed to God the Father.

Please, run away from your evil cult; Jehovah Witness and stop defending their lies.

Ken4Christ:
See overwhelming evidence of Scripture where Jesus is worshipped. Angels were also commanded to worship Him

1. Matthew 2:11
"And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, AND WORSHIPPED HIM: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh."

2. Matthew 8:2
"And, behold, there came a leper AND WORSHIPPED HIM, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean."

3. Matthew 9:18
"While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, AND WORSHIPPED HIM, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live."

4. Matthew 14:33
"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

5. Matthew 15:25
"Then came she AND WORSHIPPED HIM, saying, Lord, help me."

6. Matthew 28:9
"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, AND WORSHIPPED HIM."

7. Matthew 28:17
"And when they saw him, they WORSHIPPED HIM: but some doubted."

8. John 9:38
"And he said, Lord, I believe. And he WORSHIPPED HIM."

More Scriptures

Angels were commanded to Worship Jesus

9. Hebrews 1:6
"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM"

10. Revelation 5:11-13
"And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, WORTHY IS THE LAMB that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing ...Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be UNTO HIM THAT SITTETH UPON THE THRONE, AND UNTO THE LAMB FOR EVER AND EVER."

11. Revelation 7:10
"And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, AND UNTO THE LAMB."

Note.
The word worship is translated from the same Greek word proskuneo even in instances where it was directed to God the Father.

Please, run away from your evil cult; Jehovah Witness and stop defending their lies.

MaxInDHouse:
The word is OBEISANCE not WORSHIP as misinterpreted by most translators.
Jesus himself said about his father and our salvation:


Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. ‭John 17:3 NIV‬

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3 KJV

This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. John 17:3 NWT

There is no sense in claiming you worship Jesus when Jesus never ask anyone to worship him so trinitarians who wants to brainwash their followers replaced the word OBEISANCE with WORSHIP to keep their followers in the dark i know you are aware of this but as a monetizer of God's word you won't tell the truth expecting everyone to come and pay you for your lies!

Truthseeker10:
Who is the person that Jesus said was worshipped in Matthew 18:26 below?

King James Bible
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

Ken4Christ:
It's a parable and the Lord in the parable represents God the Father.

Ken4Christ:
You will never repent. Russell doctrine has consumed you such that you are trained deny truth that are clearly revealed.

The Father is the only True God manifested in Christ.

Tell me the verse below is not worship

Revelation 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb

Or this:

Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

And this

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Jesus, the Lamb of God is evidently worshipped alongside with God the Father.

FxMasterz:
I have given you an elaborate answer in my answer to Pulsingpurple. But, let me make this little addition here.


Jesus came as Both man and God. He manifests both sides without mixing them up.

FxMasterz:
Final Question

If Father and Son both share titles, worship, and attributes that cannot be duplicated (King of kings, Lord of lords, Creator, Savior, Fountain of Life, Shepherd, Judge, then non-Trinitarians must answer:

Are there two gods—or is the mystery of the Trinity the only way to resolve this divine unity?

Anything else is not monotheism. It is nothing short of paganism.

CC: TenQ, Ken4Christ, Gabrielshow24, Image123, Emusan, DoWhatThouWilt, SarcasticWords, FreeIgboho, Janosky

FxMasterz:
Your questions have only one answer. Abd here is it:

Jesus waa both man and God. As man The called Father God, as God, He's worshiped. This will not be the first time you'll hear that Jesus was fully man and fully God. However, your likes on my hold on to His ful manliness. You reject His Godhood. There's no way you can answer any of the questions I presented above without contradicting yourself. That's why you came up with two other questions borne of ignorance.

FxMasterz:
Was God not glorified by that miracle? Yes, or no?

Brenbentondiaz:
You were caught manipulating scriptures, and you came with this? Lolz.

Brenbentondiaz:
I don't know whether you Trinitarians just love taking every expression literally (of it supports your funny doctrine), or it's just ignorance.

Now, you quoted where Jesus was called Lord and where Jehovah was called Lord. Same for Saviour etc. You now asked are there 2 Lords etc. Now, if someone tells you "Dangote built his refinery in Lagos", then on another day another person tells points to his friend and says, "my friend owns the construction company that built Dangote Refinery", would your question be, "do we have 2 builders of Dangote Refinery?" If the president sends a representative to an ocassion with a written speech, which states "as the president of this nation, I congratulate...", next this is to be asking, "do we have 2 president's?"

Since you can explain very well, pls explain the below:

1. Revelations chapter 3 where Christ said anyone that overcame He would make a pillar in the temple of His (Christ's) God.

2. Also in Revelations, Christ said He would make anyone that overcame sit with Him on His throne, just like He overcame and sits on the Throne with His Father (which, according to your "logic", would mean we Now have a lot more personalities in the "Godhead".

3. Apostle Paul said something about the end where everything would be subdued under Christ, the Christ would be under God. If they were equal, I wonder why this arrangement.

4. You've read in various scriptures how all powers have been given to Christ. Who gave Him those powers? Himself?

5. In Revelations I read about the 7 Spirits of God. Ain't that making it 9 God's in 1 (assuming the Holy Spirit is One of those Seven?

I'm not a JW, by the way.