₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
We are Saved Just by Grace and Only by Grace because of your FAITH in God and His work of Atonement for us
Eph 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


Works is only for REWARDs after Salvation

Mark 9:41
For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward

1 Corinthians 3:14
If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward

Explain James 2:26 below.
NIV
26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Truthseeker10:
source of this information please.

Soul Travel

TenQ:
Jesus took care of these ones too

1 Pet 3:19-20
He (Jesus) went and proclaimed God's salvation to earlier generations who ended up in the prison of judgment 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

And to those who never heard the gospel , God judges them by their conscience and His Discretion. So, leave this realm to God's wisdom.

1)So according to your explanations, those who do not know Christ before they died are in prison? If yes, where is this prison?

2) are you saying that people can actually go to heaven without knowing Christ and that God will just Judge them with their conscience?

bixton:
Whether you believe it or not is not the issue.

No one can be in both places.
We will all die someday and then whatever happens next is only known to the one who has died....
Funny enough the dead cannot come and tell where they are...

The last warning for that was told as a parable by Christ Jesus between the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man died and was buried but the poor man slept. The poor man was in the bosom of Abraham and the rich man was in a place of torment asking the poor man to give him water to quench his thirst......
Well the response he got wasn't what he intended to hear.
Just as it happened to the rich man so will it happen to anyone who refuses as accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and such continue to walk in holiness and righteousness and have a right standing with God.

So if the rich man was in hell without his physical body, how was he able to ask for water to cool his tongue?

kiddaz:
The true father of all existence is beyond any religion, deity, books, systems, places of worship and wtv. He will never make it difficult for you to know him because he is everything and everything is HIM. You don't need any special type of prayers or religion shrouded in fear to connect with that because what you seek is already within you as a living soul and not in any other abode. Every religious system is man made to hide the truth and use the majority for the gains of the select few. It's all a game of power. If I'm lying look at all your religious leaders closely and tell yourself what they have in common despite the different cloaks they love to use to shield the majority from knowing they're all the same, even your local small time pastors and MOG's too. I dare anyone in doubt to truthfully and sincerely ask God, Who are you really? I want to know you for who you truly are? Just ask in that direction in your own words and with all sincerity. Do this in your quiet time, advisable in the midnight hours when the majority of the world sleeps and then begin to notice directions from the divine very clearly. There's only one single source that holds everything together. Seek and you will find, the truth only will set you free. Jesus himself tried to explain this but the world wasn't ready to understand even till now. The Roman empire that controlled and still controls the church today twisted everything to suit their own narratives. If you don't know Jesus never truly identified with the religious order of his days even though he read the Torah and went to the temple. Rather he was a thorn in their flesh because he knew the truth, the way and always was vocal about it and clashed with the then MOGs in power. They killed him for that and remade his story, history and even his messages but the truth can never be surpressed forever. Knowing God is by the spirit and not by any religion. In spirit and in truth only can you know. He who is discerning should and he who is comfortable with following the herd should also.

Since you know God already, what is God's name? Why do you call him "God"?

chieveboy:
Soul Travel

What is soul?

Truthseeker10:
1)So according to your explanations, those who do not know Christ before they died are in prison? If yes, where is this prison?

You seem not to know that hell is a prison!?
Ask the Rich Man and he will tell you.
Luke 16

Truthseeker10:
2) are you saying that people can actually go to heaven without knowing Christ and that God will just Judge them with their conscience?

No, I never said that!
I only appealed to God's perfect justice, Wisdom and Righteousness that He knows how to judge their case.
Do you think God wouldn't know what to do with these ones who never heard?

Whatsoever a man sows, that he shall reap irrespective of whether he knows Jesus or not!

Jumbojax:
Hebrew 12:14 "Follow peace with all men, and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord"
No man shall see the Lord in you, if you are not holy.
But the only true criteria to entering heaven is faith.
Eph 2:8&9
For by grace are you saved through FAITH, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.
NOT of works, lest any ma should boast.

Holiness is a work sir

Explain James 2:26 below.

26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

francisobiabo:
Say it loud sir, please say it louder, make it loudest.
They only criterion for going to hell is unbelief.
The most dangerous and Hell bound sin is unbelief.
The salient question is, how do i or what do i believe in . .... The right answer is to believe in Jesus as the Christ, savior, the only way to God and the Son of God

According to Luke 4:41, are the demons saved?

TenQ:
You seem not to know that hell is a prison!?
Ask the Rich Man and he will tell you.
Luke 16

So you mean that people go to this prisons with their physical bodies? if not, tell me why the rich man was asking for water to cool his tongue?

No, I never said that!
I only appealed to God's perfect justice, Wisdom and Righteousness that He knows how to judge their case.
Do you think God wouldn't know what to do with these ones who never heard?

Whatsoever a man sows, that he shall reap irrespective of whether he knows Jesus or not!

So how come you are now deciding how God will Judge when Jesus made it clear that you cannot enter into the kingdom of God without being born again?

Truthseeker10:
Explain James 2:26 below.
NIV
26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

The explanation is simple!

1. Faith is NOT the same as Believing
2. Faith is Trust in the Integrity of God or a Personality that produces a Requisite Action.
Eg. Hebrews 11
By Faith Abraham (action)
By Faith Enoch (action)
By Faith Rehab (action)
By Faith Moses (action) etc

Believing is an Affirmation or otherwise of the Heart for a position for things where knowledge is not 100% perfect.
Eg.
I believe Jesus was Crucified on the Cross
I believe Jesus had 12 main Disciples.
I believe Nigeria will hold an election in 2027
I believe the Church in Nigeria will keep growing


So,
Jam 2:26:
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

James is saying that IF you CLAIM to have Faith BUT we CANNOT SEE the Requisite ACTION , then you CANNOT claim to have FAITH as your claimed FAITH does NOT EXIST (it is DEAD)

This is the meaning sir!

TenQ:
The explanation is simple!

1. Faith is NOT the same as Believing
2. Faith is Trust in the Integrity of God or a Personality that produces a Requisite Action.
Eg. Hebrews 11
By Faith Abraham (action)
By Faith Enoch (action)
By Faith Rehab (action)
By Faith Moses (action) etc

Believing is an Affirmation or otherwise of the Heart for a position for things where knowledge is not 100% perfect.
Eg.
I believe Jesus was Crucified on the Cross
I believe Jesus had 12 main Disciples.
I believe Nigeria will hold an election in 2027
I believe the Church in Nigeria will keep growing


So,
Jam 2:26:
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

James is saying that IF you CLAIM to have Faith BUT we CANNOT SEE the Requisite ACTION , then you CANNOT claim to have FAITH as your claimed FAITH does NOT EXIST (it is DEAD)

This is the meaning sir!

You quoted the verse below earlier.
Ephesians 2:8.

King James Bible
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Can we be saved without faith according to the verse above?

Truthseeker10:
What is soul?

Consciousness

chieveboy:
Consciousness

So how do you know if a person Is conscious?

Truthseeker10:
So you mean that people go to this prisons with their physical bodies? if not, tell me why the rich man was asking for water to cool his tongue?

A person goes to hell with his spiritual body.
A person goes to the Lake of Fire with both his physical and spiritual bodies

Truthseeker10:
So how come you are now deciding how God will Judge when Jesus made it clear that you cannot enter into the kingdom of God without being born again?

Did you anywhere here me speak for them as either seeing God or going to heaven or entering the kingdom of God!?

I did NOT state their position: I stayed that God will Judge them Righteously based on their conscience.



Even the Heathens have their Conscience given by God to know Right from Wrong
Rom 2:14-15:
"For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves; who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,"

The Judgement of those who know God's will but did not do it is more severe that those who do not know God's will
Luk 12:47-48:
"And that servant who knew his lord's will and did not prepare, nor did according to His will, shall be beaten with many [stripes]. But he not knowing, and doing [things] worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be required. And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

Irrespective of knowing God's will or not, EVERYONE will be judged by God.

Mat 12:36:
"But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of judgment."

Heb 9:27:
"And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,"

Truthseeker10:
You quoted the verse below earlier.
Ephesians 2:8.

King James Bible
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Can we be saved without faith according to the verse above?

Did I ever claim that a person can be saved without FAITH in Christ?

I will like to see it and correct my errors if I said such.

Truthseeker10:
So how do you know if a person Is conscious?

Anyone who has some level of self awareness to answer their name when he roll call is being made in class is exhibiting being conscious.

TenQ:
A person goes to hell with his spiritual body.
A person goes to the Lake of Fire with both his physical and spiritual bodies

what do you mean by spiritual body? Do spiritual bodies cool their tongues with water?

Did you anywhere here me speak for them as either seeing God or going to heaven or entering the kingdom of God!?

I did NOT state their position: I stayed that God will Judge them Righteously based on their conscience.



Even the Heathens have their Conscience given by God to know Right from Wrong
Rom 2:14-15:
"For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves; who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,"

The Judgement of those who know God's will but did not do it is more severe that those who do not know God's will
Luk 12:47-48:
"And that servant who knew his lord's will and did not prepare, nor did according to His will, shall be beaten with many [stripes]. But he not knowing, and doing [things] worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be required. And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

Irrespective of knowing God's will or not, EVERYONE will be judged by God.

Mat 12:36:
"But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of judgment."

Heb 9:27:
"And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,"

So where are they now since they've died without knowing Christ?

chieveboy:
Anyone who has some level of self awareness to answer their name when he roll call is being made in class is exhibiting being conscious.

So do people people who have died do the above?

TenQ:
Did I ever claim that a person can be saved without FAITH in Christ?

I will like to see it and correct my errors if I said such.

So If a person cannot be saved without faith in Christ, explain James 2:26.

King James Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

You definitely are not listening as a full cup cannot be filled.

Truthseeker10:
what do you mean by spiritual body? Do spiritual bodies cool their tongues with water?

Your spiritual body is the union of your Soul and Spirit.
Your spiritual body is your state of Existence when you are disconnected from your bodies
Examples:
1. Moses and Elijah with Jesus at the mount of transfiguration
Mat 17:3:
"And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah talking with Him."

2. Lazarus, Abraham and the Rich Man
Luk 16:23:
"And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

3. At the 1000 year reign of Christ before the Resurrection of the Dead
Rev 20:4:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received [his] mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
verse 5 tells us when the resurrection of the dead will take place.

Truthseeker10:
So where are they now since they've died without knowing Christ?

You are either in the Place of Abraham or the other place and prison called hell.

Hell is NOT the Lake of Fire.

Truthseeker10:
So If a person cannot be saved without faith in Christ, explain James 2:26.

King James Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Do you NOW agree that you are not listening as a full cup can never receive?

TenQ:
The explanation is simple!

1. Faith is NOT the same as Believing
2. Faith is Trust in the Integrity of God or a Personality that produces a Requisite Action.
Eg. Hebrews 11
By Faith Abraham (action)
By Faith Enoch (action)
By Faith Rehab (action)
By Faith Moses (action) etc

Believing is an Affirmation or otherwise of the Heart for a position for things where knowledge is not 100% perfect.
Eg.
I believe Jesus was Crucified on the Cross
I believe Jesus had 12 main Disciples.
I believe Nigeria will hold an election in 2027
I believe the Church in Nigeria will keep growing


So,
Jam 2:26:
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

James is saying that IF you CLAIM to have Faith BUT we CANNOT SEE the Requisite ACTION , then you CANNOT claim to have FAITH as your claimed FAITH does NOT EXIST (it is DEAD)

This is the meaning sir!

The second time in 7 minutes you will ask exactly the same question

TenQ:
Do you NOW agree that you are not listening as a full cup can never receive?


The second time in 7 minutes you will ask exactly the same question

So do you now agree that we need works to be saved through faith?

Truthseeker10:
So do you now agree that we need works to be saved through faith?

Luk 23:42-43:
"And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

1. Was this thief saved?
2. What exactly was his works?

TenQ:
You definitely are not listening as a full cup cannot be filled.

Your spiritual body is the union of your Soul and Spirit.
Your spiritual body is your state of Existence when you are disconnected from your bodies
Examples:
1. Moses and Elijah with Jesus at the mount of transfiguration
Mat 17:3:
"And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah talking with Him."

2. Lazarus, Abraham and the Rich Man
Luk 16:23:
"And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

3. At the 1000 year reign of Christ before the Resurrection of the Dead
Rev 20:4:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received [his] mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
verse 5 tells us when the resurrection of the dead will take place.

So which part of the soul and spirit has a tongue that can be cooled with water without the physical body?

You are either in the Place of Abraham or the other place and prison called hell.

Hell is NOT the Lake of Fire.

So where is this place of Abraham?

And how come this place called hell accommodates a tongue that can be cooled with water if it is only soul and spirit that is there?

TenQ:
Luk 23:42-43:
"And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

1. Was this thief saved?
2. What exactly was his works?

So if the thief had no works...how could he be saved through faith according to Ephesians 2:8 and James 2:26?

Truthseeker10:
So if the thief had no works...how could he be saved through faith according to Ephesians 2:8 and James 2:26?

Please answer my questions , you are the proponent of salvation by works

1. Was this thief saved?
2. What exactly was his works?

You are definitely not listening as your mind is made up!

TenQ:
Please answer my questions

1. Was this thief saved?
2. What exactly was his works?

You are definitely not listening as your mind is made up!

answer my question too because you were the ine that quoted Ephesians 2:8.

So if the thief had no works...how could he be saved through faith according to Ephesians 2:8 and James 2:26?

Truthseeker10:
answer my question too because you were the ine that quoted Ephesians 2:8.

So if the thief had no works...how could he be saved through faith according to Ephesians 2:8 and James 2:26?

Sorry!
You forgot
Eph 2:9:
"not of works, lest anyone should boast."

You are the proponent of salvation by works not me. Thus, you must answer these questions

Luk 23:42-43:
"And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

1. Was this thief saved?
2. What exactly was his works?

TenQ:
Sorry!

You are the proponent of salvation by works not me. Thus, you must answer these questions

Luk 23:42-43:
"And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

1. Was this thief saved?
2. What exactly was his works?

You are also the proponents of salvation without faith which involves work. So answer the question below.


So if the thief had no works...how could he be saved through faith according to Ephesians 2:8 and James 2:26

Truthseeker10:
You are also the proponents of salvation without faith which involves work. So answer the question below.


So if the thief had no works...how could he be saved through faith according to Ephesians 2:8 and James 2:26

Please quote exactly where I am the proponent of salvation without faith OTHERWISE consider this conversation a fraud!

TenQ:
Please quote exactly where I am the proponent of salvation without faith OTHERWISE consider this conversation a fraud!

So do you now agree that we need works to make our faith alive in other to be saved according to Ephesians 2:8 and James 2:26 if you are not a fraud?