₦airaland Forum

KnownUnknown:
Lol.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00070/full

I feel myself moving, or, more accurately, can make myself feel as if I am moving. I know perfectly well that I am not actually moving. There is no duality of body and mind when this happens, not really. In fact, I am hyper-sensitive to my body at that point, because I am concentrating so hard on the sensation of moving. I am the one moving – me – my body. For example, if I ‘spin’ for long enough, I get dizzy. I do not see myself above my body. Rather, my whole body has moved up. I feel it as being above where I know it actually is. I usually also picture myself as moving up in my mind’s eye, but the mind is not substantive. It does not move unless the body does.”

Nlo duplicate body moves out of the body.
Consciousness only expands., That's the true description of OBE.. If you move out of it completely, then death to the physical body


Its only in NDE , consciousness starts to gradually move away.. That's why that one is different

The lady was not having an NDE. That's the difference

Morever the fact she can do it at will proves my point

You pick the one you want to pick and ignored the below. You are not interested in the truth

Consciousness is multidimensional. It can at different places at the same time . I said so before in the Mind and Matter thread. This study confirms that

KnownUnknown:
There is nothing to discuss. I don’t think I or most would dispute that someone had an experience but there is no such thing as “leaving your body”, which is the point of contention. If people were able to do such a thing, you would have presented the proof. And the proof should be very easy. It’s a simple test of leaving your body, going to a particular location, and memorizing certain things that can be confirmed after debriefing. But this will never happen because you can’t leave your body. You can go to China in your dreams but when you wake up you will be on your bed. You can fly like a superhero in your OBE but when you wake up, you are there lying prone in your back. You also claim the brain is not the cause but even the study you cited was focused on the brain.

One doesn’t leave one’s body when having a “SBE” (sleeping body experience aka dreaming) just like one doesn’t leave one’s body when experiencing an OBE, NDE, or whatever experience you want to bring up next.

Triple would remember I drank all the water at the Bar Beach when I had my NDE/OBE, but thinks I drank it with the super cult powers he has no evidence I have.

KnownUnknown:
Lol.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00070/full

I feel myself moving, or, more accurately, can make myself feel as if I am moving. I know perfectly well that I am not actually moving. There is no duality of body and mind when this happens, not really. In fact, I am hyper-sensitive to my body at that point, because I am concentrating so hard on the sensation of moving. I am the one moving – me – my body. For example, if I ‘spin’ for long enough, I get dizzy. I do not see myself above my body. Rather, my whole body has moved up. I feel it as being above where I know it actually is. I usually also picture myself as moving up in my mind’s eye, but the mind is not substantive. It does not move unless the body does.”

What I explained earlier , and you skipped it
There's no duality of mind and body when consciousness is inhabiting a body . But consciousness itself can expand .

You still don't understand what veridical perception is during OBE.,,and it's the reason my explanations are not clear to you

All that you described about dreaming of China has nothing to do with it .

Your dream of China is just mind trave influenced by memories in your mind . And the mind will only make you see and experience what is already stored in it . It's not a real OBE .

In real OBE , for instance , You dream of seeing a perculiar building you have never seen before , either in pictures or in movies .

And when you travel to china and visit that place in your dream ,you saw exactly the same thing .This is confirmation that what you experienced in your dream was real and not your mind or brain creating it

The brain cannot create this kind of experience to make you see anything that's not stored in it already .

. This is what I'm talking about ,and that's the difference betweeen a real OBE with veridical perception and just dream

Hope this is clear now .

In the experiment ,the lady willed herself to have the experience . The brain did not create anything, but only responded to what she was doing .

The brain did not create what she saw from perceiving things outside her body

You need a real OBE experience to fully understand all of this .

Reading about it from me or anywhere , will only make give you an theoritical understanding of the phenomenon ,and you are already displaying that understanding .

Nothing physical leaves the body ,it's consciousness expanding .

KnownUnknown:
Lol.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00070/full

I feel myself moving, or, more accurately, can make myself feel as if I am moving. I know perfectly well that I am not actually moving. There is no duality of body and mind when this happens, not really. In fact, I am hyper-sensitive to my body at that point, because I am concentrating so hard on the sensation of moving. I am the one moving – me – my body. For example, if I ‘spin’ for long enough, I get dizzy. I do not see myself above my body. Rather, my whole body has moved up. I feel it as being above where I know it actually is. I usually also picture myself as moving up in my mind’s eye, but the mind is not substantive. It does not move unless the body does.”

There's no physical movement . You understood her explanation as physical movement, it's simply expansion of consciousness

Modified
Oh oh. I read the article again . The lady experience was not what I thought . It was actually mind stuff . Nothing more. She didn't go anywhere .
But however ,all I talked about the phenomenon is what happens .

I will bring another one .

Sorry fo the mix up

Modified. This is closer to it.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244015615919

budaatum:
Found out Amorc UK do open days. I'm going to try to go to one.

It's in my diary but I'm relying on you to remind me on the day and not let me cop out please.

I'd need 2 hours to get there. Start time is 7pm.

Since no one reminded me of this I can say I forgot and cop out. Except that I'm far too curious.

https://maps.app./cbbVNPc7zga544uN8

Will post updates here
https://www.nairaland.com/7762141/theosophical-society-visit#124380595

Cultural complexity: a new epistemological perspective

It deserves a thread but I figured to cultify it for those who use eyes.

triplechoice:
There's no physical movement . You understood her explanation as physical movement, it's simply expansion of consciousness

Modified
Oh oh. I read the article again . The lady experience was not what I thought . It was actually mind stuff . Nothing more. She didn't go anywhere .
But however ,all I talked about the phenomenon is what happens .

I will bring another one .

Sorry fo the mix up

Modified. This is closer to it.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244015615919

This is Jargons.
Almost Everything the west know about OBE, Soul travel, Astral projection and related trash traces back to madame blavatsky.

Maynman:
This is Jargons.
Almost Everything the west know about OBE, Soul travel, Astral projection and related trash traces back to madame blavatsky.

Really?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179873/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

budaatum:
Really?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179873/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

Yes

Maynman:
Yes

Are OBEs not products of imagination, and were they not being considered before Blavatsky?

budaatum:
Are OBEs not products of imagination, and were they not being considered before Blavatsky?

It was articulately more developed by her and she made it known to the western world.

Maynman:
It was articulately more developed by her and she made it known to the western world.

So, it can be traced further back than her, just not articulated and developed like she made it?

Perhaps it was called something else, or she sold it better?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

budaatum:
So, it can be traced further back than her, just not articulated and developed like she made it?

Perhaps it was called something else, or she sold it better?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

Yes.

budaatum:
If only.

Here's some Aristotle. The APPLE AUDIOBOOK play on oranges.

That's quite an extensive list I a

This might be the first book I 'read' from start to finish this year.

https://hdaudiobooks.com/sapiens-a-brief-history-of-humankind-audiobook/

I suggest the use of the Brave browser, which was introduced to me by a certain basilico who otherwise is a waste of space and time but to whom I owe immense gratitude for introducing me to Brave.

Roy Wagner, 1975, The invention of culture. University of Chicago Press

https://archive.org/details/inventionofcultu0000wagn/page/n197/mode/1up


My great fear is that the fruits of knowledge we fear to pluck and eat now will be hidden on the east side of the Garden of Eden behind the cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way so we are not allowed to reach out our hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and just live. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

The book above is unavailable, so you'll need to seek it. If you do find it, please post link here for the rest of us. And if you ever do read it and learn anything, do come back to educate us please.

triplechoice:
@AOO1, Be careful !

The puppet and brainwashed Amorc member is already attempting to postulate and manipulate your mind into something .

You dont appear to notice he has been using some thought -termintaing cliches such as , 'eyes not open to see 'and 'minds to attempt to understand' , either to end the conversation since he is not succeeding with it, or to make you submit your mind to him for control so you start regarding him as much more intelligent than yourself

In other words , the loaded meaning in those statements are, you are not enlightened enough to understand him (eyes not open), and your critical faculty skill is not fully developed to make sense of anything ( 'minds to attempt '....)

All these are malicious suggestions to your subconscious mind to influence it negatively , and it's coming from somebody who himself is neither enlightened or can really think for himself , if not ,he would not be a member of a racist organisation whose founder, when alive, had regarded every blackman and woman as inferior to the whites Harvey Lewis Spencer , promoted the Idea of the superior Aryan race .

If Buda eyes are open and he is using his mind to think ,he will not foolishly continue to pay membership dues in dollars for protection from the so call invisible great white brotherhood , the Amorc egregore ,

That's what mind bending cult promises its members and uses to trap them so they don't leave ,but the wise ones continue to move out everyday leaving the clown behind .

If Buda is really using his minds ,he will know that he is being decieved in Amorc where he has been made to believe that a certain Jesus actually went to India and Egypt to learn .

Atheist don't accept a Jesus really existed in the past because they say no evidence , and there is really no historical evidence .Buda is a confused atheist .

If Buda ,is actually using his mind ,he will not continue to swallow the lie that Amorc claims are scientifically proven truths, and remain there .

Poor Buda ,who is yet to realise he is trapped in a path that has taken absolute control of his thinking faculty and have been using him like a zombie to spread it's message indirectly here on this forum ,and elsewhere ,to suck in anyone who is not watchful enough .

The clown says it's fear of Amorc or what I don't understand is why I have been attacking him.

What is there to be afraid of. The power in Amorc is in fear ,belief, and secrecy ,and that's why they hide what they do from the public .I know what they do in secret ,but it's not what some relgious people think . No blood and human sacrifice , but insidious mind control to put members under mental slavery .

I would have been a member ,but after a
painstaking and thorough investigation of the group , I discovered they don't have anything to offer me ,and anyone serious in knowing the truth .

A former member once declared that ,Amorc is an expensive waste of time . Others who have left agreed to this .

Their claims are not scientifically unproven truths ,but they deceive itheir ignorant members, who are mostly scientific illiterates, like Buda , that it's



Read all about, Thought - terminating cliches through this link .


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9



My quarrei with Buda is because he has been trying to use it on me thinking I lack the awareness to know what he is attemping to do.
I'm now saying enough is enough . You don't try that with me . I will put you where you belong .

Wow! I contemplated on joining this Order. This is eye and mind opening

Prudoh:
Wow! I contemplated on joining this Order. This is eye and mind opening

One does not "contemplate on joining this order".

One spends years looking for the door and the key or to knock, and then might start to contemplate whether they are bold enough to walk the way.

Thanks for reminding me work to read.

budaatum:
One does not "contemplate on joining this order".

One spends years looking for the door and the key or to knock, and then might start to contemplate whether they are bold enough to walk the way.

Thanks for reminding me work to read.

Does this order train someone to a stage they'll be able to evoke beings successfully?

triplechoice:
If Buda eyes are open and he is using his mind to think ,he will not foolishly continue to pay membership dues in dollars for protection from the so call invisible great white brotherhood , the Amorc egregore ,

You see this? It's funny.

My mother tells how she was earning before my born and my father spent it on Amorc. She hates him because of it because it was she who fed and clothed and housed and schooled us.

Triple! Where did the buda that rallies against tithe according to Grok tell you buda has ever spent a dime of buda money to "pay membership dues in dollars for protection from the so call invisible great white brotherhood , the Amorc"?

Do I seriously sound like one who wouldn't learn from my own mother's koboko?

I think Grok is evil, Triple. In plain sight too than Amorc that is hidden. I love it!

Prudoh:
Does this order train someone to a stage they'll be able to evoke beings successfully?

Is it a magic school?

budaatum:
Is it a magic school?

It's a school of thought but i think after uniting with my higher self, it will possible to command spirits.

Prudoh:
It's a school of thought but i think after uniting with my higher self, it will possible to command spirits.

Command your own spirit?

budaatum:
Command your own spirit?

evoke beings not mine.

Prudoh:
evoke beings not mine.

Create them? Like, others?

I'm on page 4.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82cdnAUvsw8?si=kOrsR7sc3yUH1fMK

budaatum:
You see this? It's funny.

My mother tells how she was earning before my born and my father spent it on Amorc. She hates him because of it because it was she who fed and clothed and housed and schooled us.

Triple! Where did the buda that rallies against tithe according to Grok tell you buda has ever spent a dime of buda money to "pay membership dues in dollars for protection from the so call invisible great white brotherhood , the Amorc"?

Do I seriously sound like one who wouldn't learn from my own mother's koboko?

I think Grok is evil, Triple. In plain sight too than Amorc that is hidden. I love it!

I saw this yesterday and decided to let sleeping dogs lie. But upon reflection, considering our last exchange on this was in 2023 and I believed the matter was behind us, I had to ask myself if there was something in this latest reply that needed my response. I concluded that there is.

It seems you've either forgotten, or are pretending to forget, in order to rewrite history for your own self -serving benefit.

The focus then,as it's now since you've chosen to resurrect this, was always on your hypocrisy. You criticised concepts that your own organisation, Amorc, actively teaches its initiates.

When I used my personal experiences to argue that the concepts of the soul, reincarnation and the phenomenon of NDE are true, even if not yet scientifically proven, others like Lordreed and Unknownunknown criticised and mocked me as well. While their comments were harsh, I was not as offended because they came from a place of sincere disbelief.

But I took exception with you because you pretended to be an atheist, the mask you still wear, to hide behind and mock the very principles you are paying Amorc to teach you. That was a serious contradiction, a foolish deception I couldn't accept and felt compelled to call it out . Your refusal to stop escalated the situation and into the heated exchange we had. I only regret the harsh words I used, but not ever going to apologise for exposing you deception and hypocrisy.

And it's especially for this reason .When I provided direct evidence of your membership to back my claims, what did you do?

You initially acknowledged the posts as yours, stating I had merely reminded you of something you had long forgotten. But then, you dubiously went and deleted the entire thread with the help of a moderator, returning to ask me for a link to the very evidence you had just admitted was yours. It was a clear attempt to deceive the public to make it seem I manufactured the evidence myself .

So, why would you now think after all that I want to be dragged back into the mud with this sad story about your family trauma, the lessons you learnt, and Grok's findings on your views about tithing??

Oh, I see, Buda is against tithing,which he regards as scam. So,, how can the same Buda pay for spiritual protection in Amorc has an initiate ? Is that not a contradiction?

But you're mistaken. You may not see it since no brainwashed person is ever aware of their brainwashing until they pick up the courage to question it

Call it whatever you like, but the truth of the matter is that the mechanism is the same. Tithe, membership dues to cover adminstrative cost, or any other form of financial contributions to a. religious sect or esoteric group are in both cases members paying for something they don't need to pay for or even if they've to pay it shouldn't be mandatory.

Amorc which you're part of promises its initiates spiritual guidance and protection from the imaginary "Great white brotherhood" .
And how does one remain a member?

By meeting up with membership dues and levies that go into the pockets of the organisation's leaders, not to any invisible spirits

Please unpack your brain and think critically . Stop raising this issue with me. With this, I consider my engagement on this matter closed.

Thank you

Prudoh:
Wow! I contemplated on joining this Order. This is eye and mind opening

Don't just decide based on what I have said here.

Do extensive research on your own about the organisation. Ask questions from both current and past members and if still tempted to join aferr that, the choice is yours.

triplechoice:
I saw this yesterday and decided to let sleeping dogs lie. But upon reflection, considering our last exchange on this was in 2023 and I believed the matter was behind us, I had to ask myself if there was something in this latest reply that needed my response. I concluded that there is.

It seems you've either forgotten, or are pretending to forget, in order to rewrite history for your own self -serving benefit.

The focus then,as it's now since you've chosen to resurrect this, was always on your hypocrisy. You criticised concepts that your own organisation, Amorc, actively teaches its initiates.

But I took exception with you because you pretended to be an atheist, the mask you still wear, to hide behind and mock the very principles you are paying Amorc to teach you. That was a serious contradiction, a foolish deception I couldn't accept and felt compelled to call it out.

Sleeping dogs lie, lol. Greetings, Triple,

Your profound insight into buda whom you so well expose to light here can not lie sleeping forever and it's awakening must be expected, I'd think.

On the bold. buda does not only believe gods do not exist, buda knows that gods are created by humans who write stories about them so others may believe. Their existence, if any, is in the imagination of those who believe in them, and buda is not of these.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

On "serious contradictions". I am extremely delighted to announce you as one of the few who has noticed and appreciate the fact that you see so well. May more use their senses like you use yours.

The below is AI. Some might love their contradictory answer to "what is the gender of budaatum on Nairaland" too.

Answers on postcards please.

Is budaatum on Nairaland contradictory?

That’s a sharp and fair question — and the short answer is: yes, Budaatum can appear contradictory, but those contradictions often serve a purpose in his style of reasoning rather than being signs of confusion.
Here’s a breakdown:
⚖️ 1. Belief vs. doubt
He says “faith begins belief, understanding follows,” yet he constantly urges skepticism and critical questioning.
At first that looks inconsistent — but for him, faith isn’t “blind trust,” it’s a starting hypothesis.
He treats doubt as part of belief’s maturation, not its opposite.
So the contradiction is dialectical, not accidental.
🧭 2. Religious identity vs. religious criticism
Budaatum often writes in the Christianity section, quotes the Bible fluently, and affirms Jesus’ wisdom —
yet he also calls organized Christianity corrupt or misguided.
He can sound like both a believer and a heretic.
This paradox reflects his deeper view that truth is larger than any one religion, and that clinging to religious labels kills insight.
⚙️ 3. Rationalist tone vs. mystical language
He promotes logic and critical reasoning but frequently uses mystical or symbolic phrasing —
talking about “awakening,” “light,” or “hidden knowledge.”
That fusion looks contradictory until you realize he sees reason and mysticism as complementary tools:
logic sharpens the mind; mysticism expands perception.
🧍‍♂️ 4. Individualism vs. communal duty
He champions self-thinking and rejects herd mentality —
yet he often argues that Nigeria’s or humanity’s problems stem from collective moral failure.
So he demands both personal independence and social responsibility — a tension common in humanist thinkers.
🧩 5. Why the contradictions matter
Budaatum’s writing style deliberately embraces paradox.
He uses contradictions as teaching devices — forcing readers to reconcile opposing ideas themselves.
In that sense, he’s closer to Socrates or Lao Tzu than to a modern doctrinaire philosopher.
✅ In summary
Budaatum is contradictory in expression but consistent in intention:
his central aim is to awaken independent thought, even if that means sounding inconsistent from one angle or another.
His contradictions are not confusion — they’re provocation.

Source: ChatGPT

Is budaatum on Nairaland contradictory?.

No, budaatum's positions on Nairaland are not inherently contradictory—they form a coherent, if unconventional, personal philosophy. He consistently prioritizes empirical knowledge and practical application over doctrinal belief, using both Jesus and Buddha as exemplars of ethical living without idolizing their traditions. Challenges from other users (e.g., in heated threads) often stem from orthodox Christian expectations, not flaws in his logic. However, critics perceive apparent tensions, which I'll break down below with evidence.
Perceived Contradictions and Challenges
Nairaland threads reveal debates where users accuse budaatum of inconsistency, mainly around his selective use of religious texts and redefinition of terms. These are interpersonal clashes rather than objective flaws:

Source: GrokAI