₦airaland Forum

In Matthew 5:22, the “hell” Jesus mentioned (Gehenna) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same “hell” the modern church uses to scare and control people.
They are completely different concepts, historically, linguistically, and spiritually.

Let me break it down very clearly:


---

✅ 1. The “hell” in the Bible (Gehenna) = a real physical valley

Jesus used the word:

Gehenna (גֵּי הִנֹּם / Gê-Hinnom)

= The Valley of Hinnom, outside Jerusalem.

It was:

a garbage dump

a place where trash burned

a symbol of inner corruption, not eternal torture


Jesus used it as a metaphor, not a literal afterlife destination.

He meant:

> “When you live with hatred, ego, and contempt,
you create a burning place inside your own consciousness.”



This is psychological and spiritual, not eternal torture.


---

❌ 2. The “hell” preached by many modern churches = NOT in the Bible

The idea of:

burning forever

demons torturing souls

God throwing people into fire for unbelief

a place of eternal punishment


…comes from:

medieval church doctrine

Greek mythology (Hades)

Dante’s Inferno (not Scripture)

1,500 years of religious control


NOT from Jesus.

Jesus never described hell as eternal torture after death.


---

✅ 3. The early Jewish understanding of Gehenna

Jews in Jesus’ time saw Gehenna as:

a temporary purification

symbolic of spiritual cleansing

the burning away of ego, lies, hatred


Never eternal torment.

Many rabbis taught purification lasts up to 12 months, not forever.


---

❌ 4. Heaven as a “place in the sky” is also not what Jesus taught

Church teaches:

“Heaven is a distant place you will go after you die if you join us.”

But Jesus said:

> “The kingdom is within you.”
(Luke 17:21)



Heaven is a state of consciousness, not a reward location.

Awakening people understand this naturally:

Heaven = higher frequency

Peace, love, unity

Connection to Source

Present moment awareness


Not a mansion in the clouds.


---

❌ 5. The church uses “heaven & hell” as control tools

Historically, churches used:

fear of hell

promise of heaven to manipulate:

money

submission

attendance

loyalty

obedience


Fear = the fastest way to control minds.
Reward = the easiest way to keep them obedient.

This is psychology, not spirituality.


---

✅ 6. What Jesus actually taught (the awakened view)

Jesus spoke about:

consciousness

inner transformation

ego death

love

forgiveness

the divine spark

unity with Source

the kingdom within


He was a mystic, not a founder of a religion.

He did NOT:

threaten people with eternal hell

create Christianity

teach salvation-by-membership

tell people to worship him

ask for a church system


In fact, he constantly attacked religious leaders for controlling people.


---

✅ 7. The Christian hell & heaven today are manipulations

✔ The church’s hell = manipulation

✔ The church’s heaven = manipulation

✔ Jesus’ Gehenna = inner state, not eternal torture

✔ Jesus’ kingdom = consciousness, not location

The awakened understanding aligns fully with:

early Jesus teachings

Jewish context

mystic traditions

Christ Consciousness


And it exposes the manipulations clearly.

Theawakensoul:
In Matthew 5:22, the “hell” Jesus mentioned (Gehenna) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same “hell” the modern church uses to scare and control people.
They are completely different concepts, historically, linguistically, and spiritually.

Let me break it down very clearly:


---

✅ 1. The “hell” in the Bible (Gehenna) = a real physical valley

Jesus used the word:

Gehenna (גֵּי הִנֹּם / Gê-Hinnom)

= The Valley of Hinnom, outside Jerusalem.

It was:

a garbage dump

a place where trash burned

a symbol of inner corruption, not eternal torture


Jesus used it as a metaphor, not a literal afterlife destination.

He meant:

> “When you live with hatred, ego, and contempt,
you create a burning place inside your own consciousness.”



This is psychological and spiritual, not eternal torture.


---

❌ 2. The “hell” preached by many modern churches = NOT in the Bible

The idea of:

burning forever

demons torturing souls

God throwing people into fire for unbelief

a place of eternal punishment


…comes from:

medieval church doctrine

Greek mythology (Hades)

Dante’s Inferno (not Scripture)

1,500 years of religious control


NOT from Jesus.

Jesus never described hell as eternal torture after death.


---

✅ 3. The early Jewish understanding of Gehenna

Jews in Jesus’ time saw Gehenna as:

a temporary purification

symbolic of spiritual cleansing

the burning away of ego, lies, hatred


Never eternal torment.

Many rabbis taught purification lasts up to 12 months, not forever.


---

❌ 4. Heaven as a “place in the sky” is also not what Jesus taught

Church teaches:

“Heaven is a distant place you will go after you die if you join us.”

But Jesus said:

> “The kingdom is within you.”
(Luke 17:21)



Heaven is a state of consciousness, not a reward location.

Awakening people understand this naturally:

Heaven = higher frequency

Peace, love, unity

Connection to Source

Present moment awareness


Not a mansion in the clouds.


---

❌ 5. The church uses “heaven & hell” as control tools

Historically, churches used:

fear of hell

promise of heaven to manipulate:

money

submission

attendance

loyalty

obedience


Fear = the fastest way to control minds.
Reward = the easiest way to keep them obedient.

This is psychology, not spirituality.


---

✅ 6. What Jesus actually taught (the awakened view)

Jesus spoke about:

consciousness

inner transformation

ego death

love

forgiveness

the divine spark

unity with Source

the kingdom within


He was a mystic, not a founder of a religion.

He did NOT:

threaten people with eternal hell

create Christianity

teach salvation-by-membership

tell people to worship him

ask for a church system


In fact, he constantly attacked religious leaders for controlling people.


---

✅ 7. The Christian hell & heaven today are manipulations

✔ The church’s hell = manipulation

✔ The church’s heaven = manipulation

✔ Jesus’ Gehenna = inner state, not eternal torture

✔ Jesus’ kingdom = consciousness, not location

The awakened understanding aligns fully with:

early Jesus teachings

Jewish context

mystic traditions

Christ Consciousness


And it exposes the manipulations clearly.

If the kingdom is within us, explain Daniel 2:44.

See deloloo!

Did you not see Revelations shows hell vomiting it's inmates to God's Court?

They delolo yaself

M

Theawakensoul:
In Matthew 5:22, the “hell” Jesus mentioned (Gehenna) is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same “hell” the modern church uses to scare and control people.
They are completely different concepts, historically, linguistically, and spiritually.

Let me break it down very clearly:


---

✅ 1. The “hell” in the Bible (Gehenna) = a real physical valley

Jesus used the word:

Gehenna (גֵּי הִנֹּם / Gê-Hinnom)

= The Valley of Hinnom, outside Jerusalem.

It was:

a garbage dump

a place where trash burned

a symbol of inner corruption, not eternal torture


Jesus used it as a metaphor, not a literal afterlife destination.

He meant:

> “When you live with hatred, ego, and contempt,
you create a burning place inside your own consciousness.”



This is psychological and spiritual, not eternal torture.


---

❌ 2. The “hell” preached by many modern churches = NOT in the Bible

The idea of:

burning forever

demons torturing souls

God throwing people into fire for unbelief

a place of eternal punishment


…comes from:

medieval church doctrine

Greek mythology (Hades)

Dante’s Inferno (not Scripture)

1,500 years of religious control


NOT from Jesus.

Jesus never described hell as eternal torture after death.


---

✅ 3. The early Jewish understanding of Gehenna

Jews in Jesus’ time saw Gehenna as:

a temporary purification

symbolic of spiritual cleansing

the burning away of ego, lies, hatred


Never eternal torment.

Many rabbis taught purification lasts up to 12 months, not forever.


---

❌ 4. Heaven as a “place in the sky” is also not what Jesus taught

Church teaches:

“Heaven is a distant place you will go after you die if you join us.”

But Jesus said:

> “The kingdom is within you.”
(Luke 17:21)



Heaven is a state of consciousness, not a reward location.

Awakening people understand this naturally:

Heaven = higher frequency

Peace, love, unity

Connection to Source

Present moment awareness


Not a mansion in the clouds.


---

❌ 5. The church uses “heaven & hell” as control tools

Historically, churches used:

fear of hell

promise of heaven to manipulate:

money

submission

attendance

loyalty

obedience


Fear = the fastest way to control minds.
Reward = the easiest way to keep them obedient.

This is psychology, not spirituality.


---

✅ 6. What Jesus actually taught (the awakened view)

Jesus spoke about:

consciousness

inner transformation

ego death

love

forgiveness

the divine spark

unity with Source

the kingdom within


He was a mystic, not a founder of a religion.

He did NOT:

threaten people with eternal hell

create Christianity

teach salvation-by-membership

tell people to worship him

ask for a church system


In fact, he constantly attacked religious leaders for controlling people.


---

✅ 7. The Christian hell & heaven today are manipulations

✔ The church’s hell = manipulation

✔ The church’s heaven = manipulation

✔ Jesus’ Gehenna = inner state, not eternal torture

✔ Jesus’ kingdom = consciousness, not location

The awakened understanding aligns fully with:

early Jesus teachings

Jewish context

mystic traditions

Christ Consciousness


And it exposes the manipulations clearly.

Don't worry. You will believe it when you are thrown in. But, it will be too late to repent. Enjoy your journey to hell and final destination, Lake of fire.

Ken4Christ:
M

Don't worry. You will believe it when you are thrown in. But, it will be too late to repent. Enjoy your journey to hell and final destination, Lake of fire.

Brother, I hear the urgency and the concern behind your words. My purpose here isn’t to argue or to diminish anyone’s faith, it’s to share historical and spiritual context so we can all think more clearly about what words like hell and heaven originally meant, and how those meanings changed over time.

Below I’ll explain calmly and in detail why the picture of a fiery eternal torture that many people fear today is not what Yeshua (the man of Nazareth) taught, and how religious systems later reshaped those ideas, often using fear and reward to control behavior.




1) Start point: what Yeshua actually said

When Yeshua used words translated as “hell,” he most often used Gehenna, literally the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem. In his day Gehenna was a place where refuse burned. He used it as a vivid metaphor for inner destruction, spiritual corruption, and consequences of hatred and unhealed anger (see Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:43).

He also said things like “the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), implying the spiritual realities of heaven/hell are primarily states of consciousness, not solely future geographic destinations.

Awakened interpretation: Gehenna(Hell) = inner burning caused by hatred, ego, unloving living.
Heaven = a state of awakened presence and union with Source.



2) Where the “eternal burning hell” idea came from

Different words, different meanings: The ancient Hebrew concept of the afterlife (Sheol) and the later Greek concept (Hades) are not the same as Gehenna. Early Jewish ideas of the afterlife were fluid and did not always teach eternal torment.

Theologians and translators shaped theology: Over centuries, church fathers (especially after Christianity became Rome’s official religion) systematized eschatology. The combination of Greek philosophy, Roman law, and later medieval theology developed the image of an eternal punitive hell.

Medieval culture intensified the image: Art, sermons, and literary works (e.g., Dante’s Inferno) painted vivid pictures of torment that stuck in popular imagination.

Practical use by institutions: At times religious leaders used fear of eternal punishment to secure obedience, wealth (indulgences), and social control.


Result: A shift from metaphorical/ethical warnings to a firm doctrine of eternal torment, and that change served institutional power as much as it shaped doctrine.



3) How institutions use heaven & hell as tools

Religious organizations (not all, but historically many) have used the concepts in predictable ways:

Fear to control behavior: Threaten eternal punishment to keep people obedient.

Reward to secure compliance: Promise heavenly reward to encourage donations, loyalty, or social conformity.

Authority by exclusivity: Claim special access to salvation (only their rites, priests, or leaders can deliver you).

Psychological leverage: Use guilt, shame, and fear of exclusion to shape moral choices.

Simplification and literalism: Turn metaphors into literal facts so complex spiritual teaching becomes easy to enforce (“do this or burn”).

These are human strategies, not necessarily Yeshua’s teaching.



4) Why distinguishing metaphor from doctrine matters

Spiritual maturity: If heaven and hell are primarily states of consciousness, the path becomes about inner transformation (forgiveness, love, presence) rather than fear-driven compliance.

Ethical living: Transformation produces real moral change; fear produces outward compliance that often hides inner resentment or hypocrisy.

Freedom: Understanding the original metaphors frees people to practice compassion and presence without needing terror to motivate them.


Scripture re-read in this light encourages healing and interior work (for example, Matthew’s warnings about anger: Matthew 5:21–26).



5) Questions to help spot manipulation

When someone or some institution teaches about heaven/hell, ask:

1. Is this teaching rooted in a literal text, or interpreted by later authorities?

2. Does it encourage inner transformation or primarily fear and submission?

3. Does it benefit the community’s spiritual growth or concentrate power/wealth in leaders?

4. Does it respect the historical and linguistic context of the texts used?


If the answer is “fear, obedience, and benefit for leaders,” that’s a red flag for manipulation.



6) What the awakened path recommends instead

Work on inner states: Forgiveness, presence, compassion, and releasing hate are the practical remedies Yeshua taught. (See Matthew 6:14–15; Luke 17:21.)

Discern doctrine from metaphor: Study original terms (Gehenna, Sheol, Hades) and their cultural meanings.

Practice spiritual responsibility: Be guided by inner wisdom and love, not fear of punishment.



7) Final note to Ken4Christ and everyone reading

I respect the concern you express, Ken4christ, I know it comes from love and a desire for others to be careful. My answer is an invitation: look at the original context, free the teachings from centuries of translation and political shaping, and see whether the message calls you to awaken rather than to fear.

If you want, I’ll post short, sourced examples showing:

Gehenna in first-century Jewish texts,

how “Hades/Sheol” differ from Gehenna, and

how early church teachings evolved into doctrines of eternal torment.


Let’s keep this conversation respectful. My aim is not to deny consequences for evil, it’s to clarify meaning so people are moved by love instead of terror.

Peace and presence.
★Theawakensoul

Theawakensoul:
Brother, I hear the urgency and the concern behind your words. My purpose here isn’t to argue or to diminish anyone’s faith, it’s to share historical and spiritual context so we can all think more clearly about what words like hell and heaven originally meant, and how those meanings changed over time.

Below I’ll explain calmly and in detail why the picture of a fiery eternal torture that many people fear today is not what Yeshua (the man of Nazareth) taught, and how religious systems later reshaped those ideas, often using fear and reward to control behavior.




1) Start point: what Yeshua actually said

When Yeshua used words translated as “hell,” he most often used Gehenna, literally the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem. In his day Gehenna was a place where refuse burned. He used it as a vivid metaphor for inner destruction, spiritual corruption, and consequences of hatred and unhealed anger (see Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:43).

He also said things like “the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), implying the spiritual realities of heaven/hell are primarily states of consciousness, not solely future geographic destinations.

Awakened interpretation: Gehenna(Hell) = inner burning caused by hatred, ego, unloving living.
Heaven = a state of awakened presence and union with Source.



2) Where the “eternal burning hell” idea came from

Different words, different meanings: The ancient Hebrew concept of the afterlife (Sheol) and the later Greek concept (Hades) are not the same as Gehenna. Early Jewish ideas of the afterlife were fluid and did not always teach eternal torment.

Theologians and translators shaped theology: Over centuries, church fathers (especially after Christianity became Rome’s official religion) systematized eschatology. The combination of Greek philosophy, Roman law, and later medieval theology developed the image of an eternal punitive hell.

Medieval culture intensified the image: Art, sermons, and literary works (e.g., Dante’s Inferno) painted vivid pictures of torment that stuck in popular imagination.

Practical use by institutions: At times religious leaders used fear of eternal punishment to secure obedience, wealth (indulgences), and social control.


Result: A shift from metaphorical/ethical warnings to a firm doctrine of eternal torment, and that change served institutional power as much as it shaped doctrine.



3) How institutions use heaven & hell as tools

Religious organizations (not all, but historically many) have used the concepts in predictable ways:

Fear to control behavior: Threaten eternal punishment to keep people obedient.

Reward to secure compliance: Promise heavenly reward to encourage donations, loyalty, or social conformity.

Authority by exclusivity: Claim special access to salvation (only their rites, priests, or leaders can deliver you).

Psychological leverage: Use guilt, shame, and fear of exclusion to shape moral choices.

Simplification and literalism: Turn metaphors into literal facts so complex spiritual teaching becomes easy to enforce (“do this or burn”).

These are human strategies, not necessarily Yeshua’s teaching.



4) Why distinguishing metaphor from doctrine matters

Spiritual maturity: If heaven and hell are primarily states of consciousness, the path becomes about inner transformation (forgiveness, love, presence) rather than fear-driven compliance.

Ethical living: Transformation produces real moral change; fear produces outward compliance that often hides inner resentment or hypocrisy.

Freedom: Understanding the original metaphors frees people to practice compassion and presence without needing terror to motivate them.


Scripture re-read in this light encourages healing and interior work (for example, Matthew’s warnings about anger: Matthew 5:21–26).



5) Questions to help spot manipulation

When someone or some institution teaches about heaven/hell, ask:

1. Is this teaching rooted in a literal text, or interpreted by later authorities?

2. Does it encourage inner transformation or primarily fear and submission?

3. Does it benefit the community’s spiritual growth or concentrate power/wealth in leaders?

4. Does it respect the historical and linguistic context of the texts used?


If the answer is “fear, obedience, and benefit for leaders,” that’s a red flag for manipulation.



6) What the awakened path recommends instead

Work on inner states: Forgiveness, presence, compassion, and releasing hate are the practical remedies Yeshua taught. (See Matthew 6:14–15; Luke 17:21.)

Discern doctrine from metaphor: Study original terms (Gehenna, Sheol, Hades) and their cultural meanings.

Practice spiritual responsibility: Be guided by inner wisdom and love, not fear of punishment.



7) Final note to Ken4Christ and everyone reading

I respect the concern you express, Ken4christ, I know it comes from love and a desire for others to be careful. My answer is an invitation: look at the original context, free the teachings from centuries of translation and political shaping, and see whether the message calls you to awaken rather than to fear.

If you want, I’ll post short, sourced examples showing:

Gehenna in first-century Jewish texts,

how “Hades/Sheol” differ from Gehenna, and

how early church teachings evolved into doctrines of eternal torment.


Let’s keep this conversation respectful. My aim is not to deny consequences for evil, it’s to clarify meaning so people are moved by love instead of terror.

Peace and presence.
★Theawakensoul

This long story you wrote is distorted truth. Go and read all the statements Jesus made concerning hell or destinies of lost souls. Hell is more real than your living home.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus unveils the sorrows of hell.

Our Lord Jesus said that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in it. In another place, he used the phrase, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I have a whole book on the scriptural evidence of hell. Its real my friend. The evidence of the scripture are too overwhelming to ignore.

True Christianity has exposed all these lies today that's why Churchgoers hate us with passion!

Theawakensoul:
My aim is not to deny consequences for evil, it’s to clarify meaning so people are moved by love instead of terror.

Ken4Christ:
This long story you wrote is distorted truth. Go and read all the statements Jesus made concerning hell or destinies of lost souls. Hell is more real than your living home.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus unveils the sorrows of hell.

Our Lord Jesus said that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in it. In another place, he used the phrase, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I have a whole book on the scriptural evidence of hell. Its real my friend. The evidence of the scripture are too overwhelming to ignore.

🤣🤣🤣so the rich man was asking for water to cool his tongue in hell without his physical body?

So the soul has teeth that it is gnashing in hell?

Truthseeker10:
🤣🤣🤣so the rich man was asking for water to cool his tongue in hell without his physical body?

So the soul has teeth that it is gnashing in hell?

When your wife cheated, is it your physical body that feels the pain?

Theawakensoul:
Brother, I hear the urgency and the concern behind your words. My purpose here isn’t to argue or to diminish anyone’s faith, it’s to share historical and spiritual context so we can all think more clearly about what words like hell and heaven originally meant, and how those meanings changed over time.

But you have already made an argument; a long one even so as to get people to agree with you.

Whereas, the same Jesus you are using to tell this Lie gave an example showing a bad person suffering terribly in a bad place.

And remember even before the missionaries and the white bandits and politicians came people already knew that God was going to judge the dead.

So the fear people feel is not as a result of anyone using fear to control for you are even forgetting that that same fear also assails the controllers too, so why would they use it?

So, you are afraid because your soul does not want to die but you have put it in harm's way and that is its way of fighting back.

Which is why it is Written
Proverbs 8:36
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul:

So all these is you fear making you create wishes to calm your paranoia

Dtruthspeaker:
But you have already made an argument; a long one even so as to get people to agree with you.

Whereas, the same Jesus you are using to tell this Lie gave an example showing a bad person suffering terribly in a bad place.

And remember even before the missionaries and the white bandits and politicians came people already knew that God was going to judge the dead.

So the fear people feel is not as a result of anyone using fear to control for you are even forgetting that that same fear also assails the controllers too, so why would they use it?

So, you are afraid because your soul does not want to die but you have put it in harm's way and that is its way of fighting back.

Which is why it is Written
Proverbs 8:36
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul:

So all these is you fear making you create wishes to calm your paranoia

Brother, thank you for engaging the topic. Let me respond with clarity, not hostility

1️⃣ Explaining something doesn’t mean I’m arguing

Sharing historical context is not an attempt to force anyone to agree.
If explanation = argument, then even sermons are arguments.
I’m only giving the original meaning behind the words we see in English Bibles.

If someone chooses to accept it or not, that is their freedom.
Just like Yeshua, i have not come to create a religion or ask you to believe me. Only those that asked receive, those that knocked the door are opened to them, and only those that seek, will find.


2️⃣ The story of Lazarus & the Rich Man is a PARABLE, not a literal map of hell

You quoted the story as if Yeshua was giving a geographic description of the afterlife.
But this was a rabbinic teaching parable, not a documentary
Parables use symbolism
They flip expectations
They attack injustice
They are not literal descriptions

Yeshua was talking to Pharisees “who loved money” (Luke 16:14).
So he told a story where the rich man receives the consequences of greed.

If we take it literally:
Hell is close enough to heaven for people to talk across it,
People in hell have bodies, eyes, and tongues
A drop of water can relieve “eternal fire”
Abraham is the gatekeeper, not God

This shows it is symbolic, not literal.

It was never intended to describe the structure of the universe or eternal torment.


3️⃣ Yes, Africans Believed In Judgement, but NOT eternal burning torture

You’re right: African traditional religions believed in consequences.
But they never taught:

❌ a lake of fire
❌ eternal torture
❌ demons roasting humans forever
❌ sinners screaming endlessly

These are European medieval additions, shaped by:
Roman Catholic theology
Dante’s “Inferno”
Church control during the Middle Ages

Africans believed in:
ancestors
reincarnation in some tribes
spiritual consequences
moral order

Not medieval hellfire.

So your point is correct but does not support eternal torture doctrine.



4️⃣ Fear was used historically, not just by missionaries, but by church instituton Globally

Fear-control is a documented historical fact:
Medieval church threatened “hell” to force obedience
People had to pay money (“indulgences”) to avoid purgatory
Church institutions used fear to maintain authority
Colonial evangelism used fear to destroy African indigenous spirituality

Even pastors today preach fear-heavy sermons: “Give or you will be cursed.”
“Obey the church or go to hell.”
“Your village people will follow you to the grave.”

Fear is a common tool of control, not just in religion but in politics too.

This is not an attack on Christianity,
it is simply acknowledging history.


---

5️⃣ About your claim that I am “afraid”

Brother, I am not speaking from fear.
I am speaking from study, research, historical context, and awakening.

Fear leads to silence.
Understanding leads to explanation.

If anything, fear appears in those who feel threatened when beliefs are questioned.

Awakening is not about denying consequences, it’s about understanding original meanings before centuries of translation and manipulation.


6️⃣ Final Clarification

I never said:
“there is no consequence for evil”
“everyone will escape judgment”
“do whatever you like”


I said:
the modern church’s version of hell is not the same as Yeshua’s teaching
the original word Gehenna had a different meaning
institutions reshaped doctrine over time
fear became a tool of control in many religious structures

These are historical facts, not “paranoia.”

Let’s discuss with reason, not fear.
Let’s seek truth, not reaction.
Let’s look at original meaning, not inherited doctrine.

Peace to you.
★Theawakensoul

MaxInDHouse:
True Christianity has exposed all these lies today that's why Churchgoers hate us with passion!

Brother, I appreciate your contribution, but let me gently clarify something so no one misunderstands my intention.

My aim is not to fight Christians, churchgoers, or any group. I am not claiming to belong to a “truer” Christianity or to expose anybody. That is not my path.

My focus is very simple:

1. I study the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek meanings.
When we return to what words like Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Shamayim originally meant, the picture becomes clearer.
Most of the fear-based interpretations we grew up with are not from the ancient text, but from later translations and church traditions.

2. I speak from the lens of Awakening, not hostility.
The goal is not to condemn anyone’s belief, but to help people understand context so they choose goodness from inner awareness, not terror.

3. Love should guide transformation, not fear.
Fear may control behaviour temporarily, but love and understanding change a person from within.
That’s why I explain things the way I do, so people rise in consciousness instead of shrinking in guilt.

4. I am not denying consequences.
Actions still have spiritual and energetic consequences.
I am only explaining that the Bible’s original languages did not describe an eternal torture chamber called “hell” the way modern churches present it.

Once we decode the ancient meanings, everything becomes clearer and less manipulative.

So my brother, I’m not against Christians or churchgoers.
I’m simply offering clarity so people can walk their path consciously,not in fear, but in understanding.

Peace on your journey. ✨
★ The Awaken Soul (TAS)

Ken4Christ:
This long story you wrote is distorted truth. Go and read all the statements Jesus made concerning hell or destinies of lost souls. Hell is more real than your living home.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus unveils the sorrows of hell.

Our Lord Jesus said that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in it. In another place, he used the phrase, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I have a whole book on the scriptural evidence of hell. Its real my friend. The evidence of the scripture are too overwhelming to ignore.

My brother, thank you for your reply. Let me gently clarify something, because you didn’t address the actual points I raised, you only repeated what you’ve always been told.

I’m not denying consequences, I’m not denying judgment, and I’m not denying accountability.
I’m asking a different question entirely:

What did the original Jewish teacher Yeshua actually mean when he used those words?

Not the English translations.
Not medieval interpretations.
Not church traditions created 1,000 years later.
But the man himself, speaking in Aramaic to a Jewish audience that understood his metaphors.

Let me respond carefully to the key parts of your comment.


1. “Hell is more real than your living home.”
The issue is not whether consequences exist.
The question is what “hell” meant in Yeshua’s language.

He used:
Gehenna, a burning rubbish dump in Jerusalem
Hades, Greek for “the unseen realm”
Sheol, Hebrew for “the grave / realm of the dead”

None of these words mean “eternal torture chamber.”
That idea came centuries later.



2. “The rich man and Lazarus proves it.”
This is one place where context matters most.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus was:
a Jewish parable already known long before Yeshua,

It is used to condemn the Pharisees’ love of wealth, full of symbolism (Abraham’s bosom, etc.), not a literal travel documentary of the afterlife.

If you read Luke 16 carefully, Yeshua is addressing the Pharisees who were lovers of money (Luke 16:14).
The parable is a moral warning, not a metaphysical map.

Even conservative scholars admit this.
Parables are not literal events.


3. “Weeping and gnashing of teeth = hell fire.”

Those phrases were Jewish idioms, not descriptions of a fiery location.

They appear throughout:
Psalms
Proverbs
Prophets

“Gnashing of teeth” = deep regret, rage, or spiritual ruin.
It is emotional/inner language, not geography.

When Yeshua warned about it, he was addressing:
hypocrisy
hatred
injustice
refusal to awaken

Not drawing a physical map of hell.


4. “I have a book that proves hell is real.”
Many books repeat church tradition, but the question remains:
Where did the doctrine itself come from?
Because it did not come from:
Moses
The Prophets
First-temple Disciples
Second-temple Disciples
The Apostles
The teaching style of Yeshua


It came from:
later Greek influence
Roman theology
medieval church imagination
Dante’s poetry
church control systems

This is historical fact, not opinion.



5. The key issue you are missing
I’m not attacking scripture.
I’m asking us to read it with:
Historical context
linguistic accuracy
cultural awareness
spiritual maturity

When Yeshua spoke, he used metaphors to wake people up, not to terrify them into obedience.


⭐ Final Clarification
My goal is not to win arguments.
My goal is to help people understand the original message, not the fear-based version added later.

If you ever want, I can break down every verse you quoted (and every verse on “hell”) in its:
Hebrew context
Aramaic usage
first-century meaning
awakened interpretation

I respect your passion, brother.
But passion must be guided by understanding, not tradition.

Peace on your journey.
★The Awaken Soul (TAS) ✨

Truthseeker10:
If the kingdom is within us, explain Daniel 2:44.

Brother, Daniel 2:44 is not contradicting anything I said. You’re mixing two very different conversations.

Let me break it down clearly:

1️⃣ Daniel 2:44 is a political prophecy, not a consciousness teaching.
Daniel lived 600 years before Yeshua during Babylonian captivity.
His prophecy describes empires falling and God establishing a kingdom that replaces oppressive systems.

It is about:
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome

Not about heaven, hell, or the afterlife.

2️⃣ Yeshua’s statement “the kingdom is within you” is a spiritual teaching.
Different context.
Different era.
Different message.
Different audience.

Daniel = national liberation prophecy
Yeshua = inner transformation teaching

Two separate subjects.

3️⃣ The kingdom has always had two interpretations in Judaism:

External (political) → Daniel’s view

Internal (spiritual) → Mystics and later teachers like Yeshua

Yeshua focused on inner awakening, not political revolution.

He said:

> “The kingdom does not come by observation.”
“The kingdom is within you.”
(Luke 17:20–21)



That means:
It is not a physical place
It is not a mountain
It is not a palace
It is not a country
It is not a location you “enter” after death

But a state of consciousness.


4️⃣ Daniel 2:44 doesn’t mention hell or eternal torment.

So it does not support:
Gehenna as hell
Eternal burning
Church doctrines
Dante’s inferno
Fear-based theology

It only talks about God overturning corrupt systems.


5️⃣ My point remains the same:
When Yeshua spoke of hell, he used Gehenna, a Jewish metaphor, not Daniel’s prophetic kingdom.
Both scriptures can coexist without conflict, because they address different realities.

Peace and clarity to you.
★ The Awaken Soul (TAS)

Dtruthspeaker:
See deloloo!

Did you not see Revelations shows hell vomiting it's inmates to God's Court?

They delolo yaself

Brother, Revelation is the last book anyone should use to defend a literal hell, because Revelation is a book of symbols, visions, and coded imagery, not a geography lesson.

Let’s break your point down clearly:

1️⃣ Revelation uses metaphorical language from start to finish.
The same book you quoted says:
a dragon fell from heaven
a woman clothed with the sun
a lamb with seven eyes
a beast rising from the sea
stars falling to the earth
a bottomless pit opening

No one takes these literally.
So why take only “hell gave up the dead” literally?

If the imagery is symbolic everywhere else, it remains symbolic here too.

2️⃣ Revelation NEVER teaches eternal torture.

In fact, Revelation says:

> “Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.” (Rev 20:14)

Meaning:
the whole realm of the dead is destroyed
death ends
Hades ends
hell (as popularly preached) ends

This is the opposite of eternal suffering.

3️⃣ “Hell gave up the dead” = symbolic judgment, not a physical location vomiting people.

It means:
> All actions, secrets, and states of the soul are revealed before divine truth.

It is a metaphor for accountability, not a map of the afterlife.

4️⃣ Your insult (“deloloo”) does not change the historical facts.
When insults appear, it simply means the person has no scriptural, linguistic, or historical response left.

5️⃣ The key point remains:
The hell Jesus spoke about was Gehenna,
a real valley used as a metaphor for spiritual decay.

Revelation does not contradict that.

6️⃣ The awakened path is about clarity, not fear.

Scripture becomes powerful when read:
in historical context
with original languages
with awareness of metaphor
free from fear-based interpretations

Peace to you on your journey.
★The Awaken Soul (TAS)

Theawakensoul:
Brother, Revelation is the last book anyone should use to defend a literal hell, because Revelation is a book of symbols, visions, and coded imagery, not a geography lesson.

And revelations was the first to say this?

And did anyone teach you to fear death?

And it is you who insalts himself especially as you obviously think people cannot see when you are haluing exactly like those naked busty guys who walk in the market: they don't think that are ma....

Theawakensoul:
2️⃣ The story of Lazarus & the Rich Man is a PARABLE, not a literal map of hell

If you appreciate that it is a parable then you ought to know that, means it is a map, message

Good you noticed Africans did not teach it, yet you saw every generation grow up to respect and fear death.

And missionaries means church, which as I told you that they cannot wield it as a control because it cuts them too

8

Theawakensoul:
My brother, thank you for your reply. Let me gently clarify something, because you didn’t address the actual points I raised, you only repeated what you’ve always been told.

I’m not denying consequences, I’m not denying judgment, and I’m not denying accountability.
I’m asking a different question entirely:

What did the original Jewish teacher Yeshua actually mean when he used those words?

Not the English translations.
Not medieval interpretations.
Not church traditions created 1,000 years later.
But the man himself, speaking in Aramaic to a Jewish audience that understood his metaphors.

Let me respond carefully to the key parts of your comment.


1. “Hell is more real than your living home.”
The issue is not whether consequences exist.
The question is what “hell” meant in Yeshua’s language.

He used:
Gehenna, a burning rubbish dump in Jerusalem
Hades, Greek for “the unseen realm”
Sheol, Hebrew for “the grave / realm of the dead”

None of these words mean “eternal torture chamber.”
That idea came centuries later.



2. “The rich man and Lazarus proves it.”
This is one place where context matters most.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus was:
a Jewish parable already known long before Yeshua,

It is used to condemn the Pharisees’ love of wealth, full of symbolism (Abraham’s bosom, etc.), not a literal travel documentary of the afterlife.

If you read Luke 16 carefully, Yeshua is addressing the Pharisees who were lovers of money (Luke 16:14).
The parable is a moral warning, not a metaphysical map.

Even conservative scholars admit this.
Parables are not literal events.


3. “Weeping and gnashing of teeth = hell fire.”

Those phrases were Jewish idioms, not descriptions of a fiery location.

They appear throughout:
Psalms
Proverbs
Prophets

“Gnashing of teeth” = deep regret, rage, or spiritual ruin.
It is emotional/inner language, not geography.

When Yeshua warned about it, he was addressing:
hypocrisy
hatred
injustice
refusal to awaken

Not drawing a physical map of hell.


4. “I have a book that proves hell is real.”
Many books repeat church tradition, but the question remains:
Where did the doctrine itself come from?
Because it did not come from:
Moses
The Prophets
First-temple Disciples
Second-temple Disciples
The Apostles
The teaching style of Yeshua


It came from:
later Greek influence
Roman theology
medieval church imagination
Dante’s poetry
church control systems

This is historical fact, not opinion.



5. The key issue you are missing
I’m not attacking scripture.
I’m asking us to read it with:
Historical context
linguistic accuracy
cultural awareness
spiritual maturity

When Yeshua spoke, he used metaphors to wake people up, not to terrify them into obedience.


⭐ Final Clarification
My goal is not to win arguments.
My goal is to help people understand the original message, not the fear-based version added later.

If you ever want, I can break down every verse you quoted (and every verse on “hell”) in its:
Hebrew context
Aramaic usage
first-century meaning
awakened interpretation

I respect your passion, brother.
But passion must be guided by understanding, not tradition.

Peace on your journey.
★The Awaken Soul (TAS) ✨

There are passages our Lord Jesus didn't use Gehenna or Hades but sent out the same message.

When Jesus told how he will separate the sheep from the goats and judge them, did he use Gehenna or Hades. He said that the goats go into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

In the parable of the tares, he also didn't use either of the words. He just said the tares would be thrown into the fire. And the lost souls are the tares.

So, stop using Gehenna or Hades to explain away the reality of hell. Gehenna our Lord Jesus was referring to wasn't the physical location in the valley of Hinnom. It was used to figuratively represent the place of eternal punishment.

Why are motorbikes in Nigeria called 'okada' today? It was because of an airline operating in Benin City many years back. Because of its speed, motorbikes are called okada today. Does it mean the motorbikes are airplanes?

Revelation 20:15 says, all those whose names are not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the Lake of fire. Did you read Gehenna or Hades here?

Truthseeker10:
🤣🤣🤣so the rich man was asking for water to cool his tongue in hell without his physical body?

So the soul has teeth that it is gnashing in hell?

The soul of man has the complete body parts that the body of man has. In fact, the body looks like the soul. The only difference is that the soul of man cannot function on earth without the body. But in the spirit realm, he is complete.

However, the flesh of the soul will be burnt up by the fire of hell, leaving him with a skeletal looking figure with all his senses and body parts intact.

The theme of your thread is misleading because there is heaven and there is hell but what the two stands for totally negates what Christendom churches are saying!

There is only one Christian organization and all these things you are saying we've known for decades now your intention may be to start your own church that is why i'm telling you we already know this.

The people you are calling "CHRISTIANS" are misinformed churchgoers and they'll be waiting for you so that by the time you decide to start your own church all their pastors will form alliance against you just as they are doing against the one and only true Christian organization!🙂

Theawakensoul:
Brother, I appreciate your contribution, but let me gently clarify something so no one misunderstands my intention.

My aim is not to fight Christians, churchgoers, or any group. I am not claiming to belong to a “truer” Christianity or to expose anybody. That is not my path.

My focus is very simple:

1. I study the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek meanings.
When we return to what words like Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Shamayim originally meant, the picture becomes clearer.
Most of the fear-based interpretations we grew up with are not from the ancient text, but from later translations and church traditions.

2. I speak from the lens of Awakening, not hostility.
The goal is not to condemn anyone’s belief, but to help people understand context so they choose goodness from inner awareness, not terror.

3. Love should guide transformation, not fear.
Fear may control behaviour temporarily, but love and understanding change a person from within.
That’s why I explain things the way I do, so people rise in consciousness instead of shrinking in guilt.

4. I am not denying consequences.
Actions still have spiritual and energetic consequences.
I am only explaining that the Bible’s original languages did not describe an eternal torture chamber called “hell” the way modern churches present it.

Once we decode the ancient meanings, everything becomes clearer and less manipulative.

So my brother, I’m not against Christians or churchgoers.
I’m simply offering clarity so people can walk their path consciously,not in fear, but in understanding.

Peace on your journey. ✨
★ The Awaken Soul (TAS)

See lies upon lies upon lies all because you want to keep only one single lie. Genesis 3:4

At death nothing survives man {Ecclesiastes 3:19-20; 9:5-10} the only thing God promised us is a resurrection in which all the particles that made up our bodies will be gathered throughout the earth and God will breathe into it again just as He did to Adam in the beginning. Ezekiel 37:6 compare to Genesis 2:7

So when people die they go nowhere but are sleeping in death according to God's word! John 11:11-14

Ken4Christ:
The soul of man has the complete body parts that the body of man has. In fact, the body looks like the soul. The only difference is that the soul of man cannot function on earth without the body. But in the spirit realm, he is complete.

However, the flesh of the soul will be burnt up by the fire of hell, leaving him with a skeletal looking figure with all his senses and body parts intact.

Ken4Christ:
The soul of man has the complete body parts that the body of man has. In fact, the body looks like the soul. The only difference is that the soul of man cannot function on earth without the body. But in the spirit realm, he is complete.

However, the flesh of the soul will be burnt up by the fire of hell, leaving him with a skeletal looking figure with all his senses and body parts intact.

🤣🤣🤣🤣What part of the Bible did you get all these information from?

🤣🤣so the soul has it own flesh and skeleton....na wa oo🤣🤣🤣

Explain Matthew 10:28

Theawakensoul:
Brother, Daniel 2:44 is not contradicting anything I said. You’re mixing two very different conversations.

Let me break it down clearly:

1️⃣ Daniel 2:44 is a political prophecy, not a consciousness teaching.
Daniel lived 600 years before Yeshua during Babylonian captivity.
His prophecy describes empires falling and God establishing a kingdom that replaces oppressive systems.

It is about:
Babylon
Persia
Greece
Rome

Not about heaven, hell, or the afterlife.

2️⃣ Yeshua’s statement “the kingdom is within you” is a spiritual teaching.
Different context.
Different era.
Different message.
Different audience.

Daniel = national liberation prophecy
Yeshua = inner transformation teaching

Two separate subjects.

3️⃣ The kingdom has always had two interpretations in Judaism:

External (political) → Daniel’s view

Internal (spiritual) → Mystics and later teachers like Yeshua

Yeshua focused on inner awakening, not political revolution.

He said:

> “The kingdom does not come by observation.”
“The kingdom is within you.”
(Luke 17:20–21)



That means:
It is not a physical place
It is not a mountain
It is not a palace
It is not a country
It is not a location you “enter” after death

But a state of consciousness.


4️⃣ Daniel 2:44 doesn’t mention hell or eternal torment.

So it does not support:
Gehenna as hell
Eternal burning
Church doctrines
Dante’s inferno
Fear-based theology

It only talks about God overturning corrupt systems.


5️⃣ My point remains the same:
When Yeshua spoke of hell, he used Gehenna, a Jewish metaphor, not Daniel’s prophetic kingdom.
Both scriptures can coexist without conflict, because they address different realities.

Peace and clarity to you.
★ The Awaken Soul (TAS)

What kingdom was God establishing to replace all other kingdoms?

Dtruthspeaker:
And revelations was the first to say this?

And did anyone teach you to fear death?

And it is you who insalts himself especially as you obviously think people cannot see when you are haluing exactly like those naked busty guys who walk in the market: they don't think that are ma....

Brother, let’s stay on the topic with clarity, not confusion or insults.
Let me respond to your points one by one so we don’t mix things together.

1. “Was Revelation the first to say this?”

That’s not what I said.

My point is simple:
Revelation is a book of visions and symbols, not a literal description of the afterlife. Every scholar, Christian, Jewish, academic, agrees that Revelation contains:
beasts with multiple heads,
stars falling into oceans,
dragons,
monsters rising from the sea,
a lamb opening seals,
a woman clothed with the sun,

These are symbolic images, not journalism.
So using Revelation to argue a literal burning hell is a misuse of the book.

Symbolic book → symbolic language.
Not literal geography.

2. “Did someone teach you to fear death?”
Brother, let’s be honest:
It is the church system, not me, that spent over 1500 years teaching people to fear death through:
eternal torment,
burning forever,
demons torturing people,
fire that never ends,

Fear of death did not come from the original Hebrew teaching.
It came from translations, medieval doctrines, and church politics.

What I’m doing is the opposite:
Removing fear, restoring original meaning, and freeing people from psychological manipulation.

3. The insult you added (“like naked mad men in the market”)
When a person leaves facts and enters insults, it shows the argument is weak.
I’m not here to trade insults; I’m here to restore context.
Let’s talk scripture, not mockery.

4. The real issue
You are defending doctrines that were shaped centuries after Yeshua, while I am simply pointing people back to:
the original Hebrew words,
the cultural context,
the metaphors Yeshua used,
what Gehenna actually meant,
how Jewish people understood afterlife,
how the church transformed these concepts into fear tools,

If we want truth, we must follow history, language, and context, not fear and tradition.

5. Final note
I engage with respect and clarity.
If you prefer insults, that is your choice.
But if we are looking for truth, we must rise above fear and emotional reactions.

Peace and Love.
TheAwakenSoul (TAS)

Dtruthspeaker:
If you appreciate that it is a parable then you ought to know that, means it is a map, message

Good you noticed Africans did not teach it, yet you saw every generation grow up to respect and fear death.

And missionaries means church, which as I told you that they cannot wield it as a control because it cuts them too

Brother, you’re mixing different ideas together again, so let me separate them clearly so we can reason properly.

1️⃣ “If it is a parable then it is a map/message.”
Exactly, it is a message, not a literal location.
A parable teaches a moral truth, not a geographical description of the afterlife.

Jesus also used parables like:
A camel going through the eye of a needle
A man with a plank in his eye
A tree producing humans as “fruits”
A woman sweeping to find a lost coin representing repentance
No one argues these are literal, physical events.

So yes, the parable communicates a spiritual lesson, but it is NOT a blueprint of hell’s architecture.

That’s the difference you keep ignoring.

2️⃣ “Africans respected and feared death naturally.”
Respect ≠ Terror.
Our ancestors respected death because it was sacred, part of the cycle of life.
They did not believe in:
burning forever,
eternal torture,
demons roasting human souls,
endless fiery punishment,

These concepts came from later religious doctrines, not indigenous spirituality.

Fear of the unknown is natural.
Fear of eternal torture was manufactured.

Let’s not mix cultural reverence with imported fear doctrines.

3️⃣ “Missionaries taught it but it cuts the church too.”
Brother, the historical record is clear:
The missionaries used hell-fire preaching as a tool to:
force conversion,
suppress indigenous beliefs,
control behavior,
make people dependent on the church for “salvation”,

[center]Missionaries themselves didn’t fear hell the way they preached it.
They used fear to shape societies they were colonizing.[/center]


How do we know?
Because the very same denominations in Europe eventually dropped literal hell teachings, while still keeping them alive in Africa to maintain authority.
So the idea that “it cuts both ways” is historically false.

It didn’t cut them, it empowered them.


4️⃣ The bigger issue
You are trying to defend a doctrine emotionally instead of historically.

I’m showing:
context,
language,
parable structure,
historical development,
cultural influence,
colonial religious strategy,

If you want truth, these layers matter.
If you only want to protect tradition, no amount of evidence will satisfy you.

5️⃣ Final note
I’ll keep responding with clarity and respect.
Let’s keep the discussion on facts, not assumptions.

TheAwakenSoul

Ken4Christ:
8

There are passages our Lord Jesus didn't use Gehenna or Hades but sent out the same message.

When Jesus told how he will separate the sheep from the goats and judge them, did he use Gehenna or Hades. He said that the goats go into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

In the parable of the tares, he also didn't use either of the words. He just said the tares would be thrown into the fire. And the lost souls are the tares.

So, stop using Gehenna or Hades to explain away the reality of hell. Gehenna our Lord Jesus was referring to wasn't the physical location in the valley of Hinnom. It was used to figuratively represent the place of eternal punishment.

Why are motorbikes in Nigeria called 'okada' today? It was because of an airline operating in Benin City many years back. Because of its speed, motorbikes are called okada today. Does it mean the motorbikes are airplanes?

Revelation 20:15 says, all those whose names are not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the Lake of fire. Did you read Gehenna or Hades here?

Brother, thank you for engaging deeply.
Let me respond with clarity, because the passages you quoted actually strengthen what I’m saying, not weaken it.

1️⃣ Sheep & Goats (Matthew 25)
You said:
“Jesus didn’t use Gehenna or Hades here.”
Exactly, that’s the point.
Matthew 25 is not a literal map of the afterlife. It is prophetic imagery rooted in the Old Testament:
separating sheep/goats = Ezekiel 34
sitting on a throne = Daniel 7
nations being judged = Joel 3

Jesus is using Jewish prophetic metaphors to describe moral responsibility, not the architecture of hell.

The “eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” is symbolic language exactly like:
“fire from heaven” in the prophets
“unquenchable fire” in Jeremiah
“lake of fire” in Revelation
Fire = divine judgment, not firewood.


2️⃣ Parable of the Tares
A parable is symbolic by definition.

You said:
“He didn’t use Gehenna or Hades.”
Correct.
Because He was teaching a spiritual principle, not giving a physics lesson about a literal furnace.

“Tares burned” comes straight from Old Testament imagery about national judgment, not eternal torture.
Jesus’ Jewish audience understood these symbols automatically.


3️⃣ The ‘Okada’ Analogy
Your analogy actually supports what I’m saying, thank you.

You said:
“Does it mean motorbikes are airplanes?”

Exactly.
Gehenna is a symbol, not the thing itself.
A symbol points to a meaning, not a location.

You’ve proven my point for me:
A symbol ≠ literal description
A metaphor ≠ physical place
Imagery ≠ geography

This is exactly how first-century Judaism communicated spiritual truth.


4️⃣ Revelation 20 & the Lake of Fire
Brother, Revelation is the LAST place to look for literal geography.
It contains:
beasts with 7 heads,
dragons,
angels with bowls,
keys to bottomless pits,
locusts like horses,
stars falling to earth,
1/3 of the sea turning to blood,

All of this is symbolic apocalyptic vision, not physical reality.

Jewish apocalyptic literature uses fire as a metaphor for:
purification,
destruction of evil systems,
divine judgment,
cosmic renewal.
The “Lake of Fire” is imagery, not a literal lake.
Even conservative scholars agree on this.


5️⃣ You still haven’t addressed the real issue
Your entire argument is based on English translations interpreting Jewish metaphors literally.
But Jesus didn’t speak English.
He spoke Aramaic to Jews who understood prophetic symbolism.

Your points avoid the core question:
👉 What did these terms mean in the first-century Jewish worldview?
Not in medieval theology.
Not in Dante’s poetry.
Not in English King James translation.

The original meaning is what matters.
And that meaning was judgment, not an eternal torture chamber.

⭐ Final Clarification (Respectfully)
You are reading symbolic Jewish imagery as if it were literal Greek philosophy.
That is the problem.
Jesus used fire-language the same way the prophets used it:
to warn,
to awaken,
to judge injustice,
to describe spiritual ruin,

[center]Not to threaten eternal torment.[/center]

Brother, I respect your passion.
But passion should be guided by context, not tradition.

If you want, I can break down Matthew 25, Revelation 20, and all fire imagery verse-by-verse in their original language and Jewish context.

Peace and clarity on your journey.
The Awaken Soul (TAS) ✨

Ken4Christ:
The soul of man has the complete body parts that the body of man has. In fact, the body looks like the soul. The only difference is that the soul of man cannot function on earth without the body. But in the spirit realm, he is complete.

However, the flesh of the soul will be burnt up by the fire of hell, leaving him with a skeletal looking figure with all his senses and body parts intact.

Brother, thank you for your sincerity, but your explanation reveals the exact problem:
You are creating doctrines that Jesus never taught and the Bible never describes.

Let me respond clearly and respectfully.

1️⃣ The Bible NEVER says the soul has teeth, flesh, or a skeleton

You wrote:
“The soul has body parts… flesh… skeletal figure.”

Brother, none of this appears anywhere in scripture.

Not in:
Genesis
Torah
Prophets
Psalms
Gospels
Epistles

The Hebrew word nefesh (soul) means:
a living being
a life force
the breath of life

Not a ghost with a skeletal body.

Animals are called “souls” (Genesis 1).
A dead body is also called a “soul” (Numbers 6).

So the soul is a state of life, not a burning skeleton.


2️⃣ Jesus Himself taught that spirits do NOT have flesh or bones
Jesus said clearly:
“A spirit does NOT have flesh and bones.” (Luke 24:39)

Yet your doctrine says:
“The soul has flesh and bones.”

Brother, your explanation contradicts Jesus directly.


3️⃣ Luke 16 is a parable, not anatomy
Jesus also taught parables where:
trees talk
seeds represent people
lamps represent hearts
coins represent repentance
wheat represents believers
weeds represent the wicked

So yes, in a parable, a “soul” can talk and feel, just like “trees clap their hands” in Isaiah.

This is symbolic imagery, not literal biology.


4️⃣ Your description comes from medieval imagination, not scripture
The idea that:
souls burn into skeletons
their spiritual flesh melts

they keep senses after being burned
comes from:
Dante’s Inferno
Catholic medieval artwork
European folklore
Hollywood movies

Not from Jesus.
Not from Jewish theology.
Not from the apostles.


5️⃣ Your explanation proves the point we’ve been making
To defend eternal torture, people are forced to invent details the Bible never gives.

Why?
Because the doctrine itself did not come from the original Hebrew worldview.

To keep it alive, people must add:
soul flesh
soul skeletons
magical senses
eternal nerve endings
ghost biology

This is mythology, not Christianity.

⭐ Final Thought
Brother, I’m not attacking you.
But you are building an entire doctrine on:
assumptions,
imagination,
and pictures the Bible never describes.

If you want, I can break down:
what the soul is in the Hebrew Bible
what Jesus meant by parables
how Jews understood Sheol
where the medieval idea of fiery hell came from
why Luke 16 was never meant to be literal

I’m here for truth, not theatrics.

The Awaken Soul (TAS) ✨

MaxInDHouse:
The theme of your thread is misleading because there is heaven and there is hell but what the two stands for totally negates what Christendom churches are saying!

There is only one Christian organization and all these things you are saying we've known for decades now your intention may be to start your own church that is why i'm telling you we already know this.

The people you are calling "CHRISTIANS" are misinformed churchgoers and they'll be waiting for you so that by the time you decide to start your own church all their pastors will form alliance against you just as they are doing against the one and only true Christian organization!🙂

Brother, thank you for your contribution, but let me correct one major misunderstanding with love and clarity.

I have no intention to start a church, form a religious group, build a denomination, or gather followers.
I am not interested in titles, pulpits, positions, or religious structures.
I am simply an awakened soul sharing truth, the same way Yeshua did, outside the system, outside institutions, outside organized religion.

Let me also make something clear, brother, so you understand that I am not speaking as an outsider throwing stones.
I resigned my post as a Regional Head of Department in RCCG.
And you know very well what it takes to rise to that level, the commitment, the trust, the influence, the responsibility.

If I wanted power, position, or a platform, I already had it.
If I wanted to start a church, I would not walk away from the one where I already held leadership.

I left because my awakening would not allow me to continue teaching what I knew was not aligned with the original message of Yeshua.
I am not trying to start a new religion.
I am simply sharing truth from a place of inner freedom.


Now Let me address your points calmly.

1️⃣ “Your intention may be to start your own church…”
No, brother.
That is the last thing I want.

I am not building:
a ministry,
a congregation,
a movement,
a religious brand,
a ‘new doctrine’,

I am simply pointing people back to clarity, not forward to a new religion.

Yeshua had no church building.
No organization.
No religious headquarters.
No formal system.

He awakened people one heart at a time.
That is exactly what I’m doing.
Nothing more.


2️⃣ “There is only one Christian organization and we already know all these things.”
Brother, if they truly “already knew,” then why do 99% of Christians still:
preach eternal torture
misinterpret parables literally
confuse metaphors for geography
read Scripture through colonial lenses
mix Hebrew teachings with medieval doctrine

[center]Waking people up is not competition, it’s compassion.[/center]

Truth is not owned by any organization.
Truth belongs to the Eternal Source, and anyone awakened can share it.


3️⃣ “Pastors will form an alliance against you.”
Brother, I am not here to fight pastors.
I am not here to debate denominations.
I am not here to gather followers.

[center]I speak truth, and whoever resonates with it awakens, those who don’t will cling to tradition.[/center]

They fought and kill Yeshua because He exposed the system.
They will resist anyone who shakes foundations.

But again, I’m not building anything for them to attack.

No church.
No group.
No movement.
Just truth.


4️⃣ My mission is simple
I am here to:
break fear
break manipulation
break confusion
restore context
restore understanding
restore the heart of Yeshua’s message
Not start an institution.
Not claim authority.
Not replace Christianity with another religion.
Truth is not a church.
Awakening is not a denomination.
Light is not an organization.

⭐ Final Clarification
Brother, I am not “starting” anything.
I am uncovering what has been buried.

No altar.
No offering.
No membership.
No building.
No followers.

Just awakened insight, shared freely, just as Yeshua did when He walked among the people outside the religious system.

Peace and clarity.
The Awaken Soul (TAS) ✨

Truthseeker10:
What kingdom was God establishing to replace all other kingdoms?

Brother, let me answer your question with precision, because you are mixing two different Jewish ideas that were never meant to be the same.

“What kingdom was God establishing to replace all other kingdoms?”
It depends on which level of the teaching you are talking about:

1️⃣ Daniel’s Kingdom = A Historical, Earthly Kingdom
In Daniel, “the kingdom” refers to:
God overthrowing human empires (Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome)
God establishing a divine rulership on earth
A political/messianic expectation of national liberation
Daniel was not giving a mystical teaching.
He was giving a political prophecy for a suffering nation under foreign oppression.

For the Jews of Daniel’s time:
“Kingdom of God” = God restoring justice on earth by ending evil governments.

It had nothing to do with afterlife, heaven, hell, or consciousness.

2️⃣ Yeshua’s Kingdom = An Inner, Spiritual Reality
When Yeshua came, he redefined the kingdom in a way the Pharisees themselves could not understand.
He said plainly:
“The kingdom does not come with observation.”
“The kingdom is within you.” (Luke 17:20–21)

This is NOT Daniel’s external kingdom.
This is the inner transformation of consciousness.

Yeshua shifted the concept from:
political → spiritual
national → personal
external → internal
future → now

He even told Pilate:
“My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36)

If his kingdom was Daniel’s political kingdom, he would NOT have said that.

3️⃣ Judaism itself holds BOTH interpretations
This is what you missed.
In Jewish theology there are always TWO dimensions of “the kingdom”:
A. The external kingdom
* Daniel’s national, political vision
* God ruling the nations
* Justice on earth
* A messianic world order

B. The internal kingdom
* The mystical tradition
* The light of God awakened inside the soul
* What Yeshua preached

These two are not contradictions.
They are two layers of the same concept, addressing different eras and different needs.

Daniel speaks to a nation under Babylon.
Yeshua speaks to individuals seeking awakening.


4️⃣ So what kingdom replaces all other kingdoms?
Daniel:
A divine rule on earth that ends corrupt empires.

Yeshua:
A divine rule inside people that transforms their consciousness.

Both can be true, but they are not the same subject.
Your question only makes sense if you understand which level you’re referring to.


5️⃣ The church collapsed both meanings into one confused doctrine
And that’s why people today read:
Daniel’s political prophecy and Yeshua’s spiritual teaching as if they are describing the same “kingdom.”

They are not.

Yeshua never preached Daniel’s geopolitical vision. He preached transformation of the inner man.

Closing
So to answer you clearly:

Daniel’s kingdom replaces earthly governments.
Yeshua’s kingdom replaces inner darkness.

Two different messages.
Two different time periods.
Two different meanings of “kingdom.”

Both valid, just not identical.

Peace and light to you.
TheAwakenSoul.

Theawakensoul:
Brother, let me answer your question with precision, because you are mixing two different Jewish ideas that were never meant to be the same.

“What kingdom was God establishing to replace all other kingdoms?”
It depends on which level of the teaching you are talking about:

1️⃣ Daniel’s Kingdom = A Historical, Earthly Kingdom
In Daniel, “the kingdom” refers to:
God overthrowing human empires (Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome)
God establishing a divine rulership on earth
A political/messianic expectation of national liberation
Daniel was not giving a mystical teaching.
He was giving a political prophecy for a suffering nation under foreign oppression.

For the Jews of Daniel’s time:
“Kingdom of God” = God restoring justice on earth by ending evil governments.

It had nothing to do with afterlife, heaven, hell, or consciousness.

2️⃣ Yeshua’s Kingdom = An Inner, Spiritual Reality
When Yeshua came, he redefined the kingdom in a way the Pharisees themselves could not understand.
He said plainly:
“The kingdom does not come with observation.”
“The kingdom is within you.” (Luke 17:20–21)

This is NOT Daniel’s external kingdom.
This is the inner transformation of consciousness.

Yeshua shifted the concept from:
political → spiritual
national → personal
external → internal
future → now

He even told Pilate:
“My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36)

If his kingdom was Daniel’s political kingdom, he would NOT have said that.

3️⃣ Judaism itself holds BOTH interpretations
This is what you missed.
In Jewish theology there are always TWO dimensions of “the kingdom”:
A. The external kingdom
* Daniel’s national, political vision
* God ruling the nations
* Justice on earth
* A messianic world order

B. The internal kingdom
* The mystical tradition
* The light of God awakened inside the soul
* What Yeshua preached

These two are not contradictions.
They are two layers of the same concept, addressing different eras and different needs.

Daniel speaks to a nation under Babylon.
Yeshua speaks to individuals seeking awakening.


4️⃣ So what kingdom replaces all other kingdoms?
Daniel:
A divine rule on earth that ends corrupt empires.

Yeshua:
A divine rule inside people that transforms their consciousness.

Both can be true, but they are not the same subject.
Your question only makes sense if you understand which level you’re referring to.


5️⃣ The church collapsed both meanings into one confused doctrine
And that’s why people today read:
Daniel’s political prophecy and Yeshua’s spiritual teaching as if they are describing the same “kingdom.”

They are not.

Yeshua never preached Daniel’s geopolitical vision. He preached transformation of the inner man.

Closing
So to answer you clearly:

Daniel’s kingdom replaces earthly governments.
Yeshua’s kingdom replaces inner darkness.

Two different messages.
Two different time periods.
Two different meanings of “kingdom.”

Both valid, just not identical.

Peace and light to you.
TheAwakenSoul.

So where is this kingdom to be located on earth and who is the king of this kingdom and it's subjects?

Truthseeker10:
So where is this kingdom to be located on earth and who is the king of this kingdom and it's subjects?

Brother, you are asking where on earth Yeshua’s kingdom will appear, and who will rule it.
To answer with clarity:

1️⃣ Yeshua Himself said His kingdom is not a physical location
When the Pharisees asked Him almost the same question you are asking, He replied:

“The kingdom does not come with observation.”
“The kingdom is within you.”
“My kingdom is not of this world.”

If it were a geographical place, He would have pointed to it, described it, or prepared His disciples to conquer and occupy it. He did none of that.


2️⃣ The “kingdom” Yeshua preached is a state of consciousness
In His teachings:
The kingdom = awakened consciousness, divine awareness, inner liberation.

That is why He says:
“You are the light of the world.”
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”
“The Father and I are one.”

A physical kingdom on earth cannot make people “see God.”
But an inner awakening can.


3️⃣ So where is this kingdom located on earth?
It is located wherever a human being awakens.

The kingdom appears:
in the mind that sees clearly,
in the heart that is free of fear,
in the person who realizes oneness with the divine,
in the human consciousness aligned with love and truth.

Yeshua said the kingdom is like:
a seed that grows silently,
hidden treasure,
yeast spreading through dough.

These are metaphors for inner transformation, not geography.

[center]The kingdom is not a place you go to; it is a state you awaken into.[/center]


4️⃣ Who is the king of this kingdom?
The King is the Divine Presence within.

Yeshua taught:
“The Father dwells in me.”
“The Father abiding in you.”
“I am in the Father and you in me.”

In the inner kingdom, the “King” is not a political ruler.
It is the Divine Awareness expressing itself through awakened human consciousness.

This is why Paul later said:
“The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Spirit.”
That is not politics, that is consciousness.


5️⃣ Who are the subjects of this kingdom?
Anyone who awakens to the truth of their divine nature.

Yeshua said:
“Whoever hears My words and does them is My brother.”
“Those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.”
“Blessed are the meek, for they inherit the earth.”

The subjects are not a tribe, nation, or religion.
They are people who awaken to:
compassion
unity
truth
inner freedom
divine awareness

They are “subjects” not by force, but by alignment.


6️⃣ Summary Answer You Can Give Him
Location: Not a territory; the human heart.
King: The Divine Presence (the Father) expressed through awakened consciousness.
Subjects: Those who awaken to truth and embody divine awareness.

This is why Yeshua told people to seek the kingdom within, not travel to it.

Peace and Love to your brother.
TheAwakenSoul.

Theawakensoul:
Brother, you are asking where on earth Yeshua’s kingdom will appear, and who will rule it.
To answer with clarity:

1️⃣ Yeshua Himself said His kingdom is not a physical location
When the Pharisees asked Him almost the same question you are asking, He replied:

“The kingdom does not come with observation.”
“The kingdom is within you.”
“My kingdom is not of this world.”

If it were a geographical place, He would have pointed to it, described it, or prepared His disciples to conquer and occupy it. He did none of that.


2️⃣ The “kingdom” Yeshua preached is a state of consciousness
In His teachings:
The kingdom = awakened consciousness, divine awareness, inner liberation.

That is why He says:
“You are the light of the world.”
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.”
“The Father and I are one.”

A physical kingdom on earth cannot make people “see God.”
But an inner awakening can.


3️⃣ So where is this kingdom located on earth?
It is located wherever a human being awakens.

The kingdom appears:
in the mind that sees clearly,
in the heart that is free of fear,
in the person who realizes oneness with the divine,
in the human consciousness aligned with love and truth.

Yeshua said the kingdom is like:
a seed that grows silently,
hidden treasure,
yeast spreading through dough.

These are metaphors for inner transformation, not geography.

[center]The kingdom is not a place you go to; it is a state you awaken into.[/center]


4️⃣ Who is the king of this kingdom?
The King is the Divine Presence within.

Yeshua taught:
“The Father dwells in me.”
“The Father abiding in you.”
“I am in the Father and you in me.”

In the inner kingdom, the “King” is not a political ruler.
It is the Divine Awareness expressing itself through awakened human consciousness.

This is why Paul later said:
“The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Spirit.”
That is not politics, that is consciousness.


5️⃣ Who are the subjects of this kingdom?
Anyone who awakens to the truth of their divine nature.

Yeshua said:
“Whoever hears My words and does them is My brother.”
“Those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.”
“Blessed are the meek, for they inherit the earth.”

The subjects are not a tribe, nation, or religion.
They are people who awaken to:
compassion
unity
truth
inner freedom
divine awareness

They are “subjects” not by force, but by alignment.


6️⃣ Summary Answer You Can Give Him
Location: Not a territory; the human heart.
King: The Divine Presence (the Father) expressed through awakened consciousness.
Subjects: Those who awaken to truth and embody divine awareness.

This is why Yeshua told people to seek the kingdom within, not travel to it.

Peace and Love to your brother.
TheAwakenSoul.

Oga I am talking about the kingdom in Daniel 2:44 as respect your submission below in bold

God establishing a divine rulership on earth
A political/messianic expectation of national liberation
Daniel was not giving a mystical teaching.
He was giving a political prophecy for a suffering nation under foreign oppression.

So where is this kingdom to be located on earth and who is the king of this kingdom and it's subjects?