₦airaland Forum

Ken4Christ:
But Job said so many things written in the Bible that God himself condemned. So, why would God condemn his inspired word? Use your brain.
Any doctrine you can't back up from the New Testament is untrue.

Who was there when Job was speaking to record it?
God revealed all these things to Moses that's what INSPIRED WORD OF GOD means things that you don't know but revealed through inspiration.
Death means complete non-existence that is what God said in the beginning {Genesis 2:17} it's Satan who said death doesn't mean complete non-existence {Genesis 3:4} when people died nobody in the Bible came to do anything that is godly as they used to do during their life time.

MaxInDHouse:
Who was there when Job was speaking to record it?
God revealed all these things to Moses that's what INSPIRED WORD OF GOD means things that you don't know but revealed through inspiration.
Death means complete non-existence that is what God said in the beginning {Genesis 2:17} it's Satan who said death doesn't mean complete non-existence {Genesis 3:4} when people died nobody in the Bible came to do anything that is godly as they used to do during their life time.

If death means, non existence, how did Jesus go to preach to prisoners in the spirit realm after he died? How could the soul of those killed cry out for vengeance? Why did Paul say that he prefer to be with the Lord? How could he be with the Lord if he doesn't exist? How could countless millions of people killed on earth worship God in Revelation 7 if they no longer exist? I could go on and on.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus unveils the fact that the dead are conscious. Calling it a parable doesn't change the fact. Our Lord Jesus can't use something that is unreal to make a parable. Every parable he spoke are things that happens or could happen in real life.

You have made up your mind to defend your lies till death. You will remember all the opportunities you had to repent on earth by the time you are cast into hell. And you will curse Russell and Rutherford for deceiving and brainwashing you.

Ken4Christ:
If death means, non existence, how did Jesus go to preach to prisoners in the spirit realm after he died? How could the soul of those killed cry out for vengeance? Why did Paul say that he prefer to be with the Lord? How could he be with the Lord if he doesn't exist? How could countless millions of people killed on earth worship God in Revelation 7

This is why Bible study matters not just reading. If you don't want to study the Bible there are thousands of questions to ask.
If the dead are still alive somewhere then who lied about the fruit in the garden of Eden between God and Satan?

Ken4Christ:
The story of the rich man and Lazarus unveils the fact that the dead are conscious. Calling it a parable doesn't change the fact. Our Lord Jesus can't use something that is unreal to make a parable. Every parable he spoke are things that happens or could happen in real life.

This is a PARABLE not real life story there was no literal Lazarus who lived as a beggar the Bible God is not the God of beggars {Psalms 23:1} and there is no evil recorded as deeds of the so called rich man neither did Moses and other prophets live the same time.

Ken4Christ:
You have made up your mind to defend your lies till death. You will remember all the opportunities you had to repent on earth by the time you are cast into hell. And you will curse Russell and Rutherford for deceiving and brainwashing you.

If you don't believe God's word that is your own cup of coffee it's Satan who lied regarding eating the forbidden fruit not God!

MaxInDHouse:
This is why Bible study matters not just reading. If you don't want to study the Bible there are thousands of questions to ask.
If the dead are still alive somewhere then who lied about the fruit in the garden of Eden between God and Satan?


This is a PARABLE not real life story there was no literal Lazarus who lived as a beggar the Bible God is not the God of beggars {Psalms 23:1} and there is no evil recorded as deeds of the so called rich man neither did Moses and other prophets live the same time.


If you don't believe God's word that is your own cup of coffee it's Satan who lied regarding eating the forbidden fruit not God!

Nobody lied in Genesis. Adam died the very day he sinned. The death was a spiritual death. It was the spiritual death that led to physical death.

Because you are carnal, you don't understand spiritual truth.

If the dead are not conscious, the story of the rich man and Lazarus is meaningless. How could Jesus imagine what does not exist and used it in a parable? Use your brain

Ken4Christ:
Nobody lied in Genesis.

Na wah o!

So how come Jesus said Satan lied from the beginning? John 8:44

MaxInDHouse:
Na wah o!

So how come Jesus said Satan lied from the beginning? John 8:44

This is not what I meant. My answer was in connection to whether Adam died or not.

Satan is definitely the father of lies. He lied to Eve and lured her to eat of the forbidden fruit.

Ken4Christ:
This is not what I meant. My answer was in connection to whether Adam died or not. Satan is definitely the father of lies. He lied to Eve and lured her to eat of the forbidden fruit.

But when i asked you said

Ken4Christ:
Nobody lied in Genesis.

Were you slumbering when you typed that?
So what did Satan say to Eve that is true?

MaxInDHouse:
But when i asked you said



Were you slumbering when you typed that?
So what did Satan say to Eve that is true?

This is not the focus of our discussion. Is heaven and literal hell real? This is what we should dwell on.

Jonah went to hell and came back to tell his story but you don't believe him

Jesus went to hell and rose again to declare his victory, you still don't believe him.

Jesus narrated how the rich man went to hell in his story about the rich man and Lazarus, you still don't believe it. You call it a parable. Jesus must be insane to use such a horrible illustration as a parable if it's not real.

But many of his other teachings affirm the reality of hell.

So many have died, gone to hell, came back and narrated the reality of hell and how horrible that place is, you still don't believe them.

Why are you joking with your life. You want to be cast into hell before you believe it exist?

You have the opportunity to repent now. Stop hardening your heart especially when the truth concerning the subject is clearly revealed in the Bible.

Jonah was in the belle of a fish and that could have been his GRAVE (HELL) if God didn't intervene. Jesus was in his GRAVE (HELL) for three days.
All these were written in the Bible but as for the dead experiencing anything that is Satan's lie {Genesis 3:4} not what God said about the dead! Genesis 2:17

Man is dust and God said he will return to dust not punishment at death!🙂

Ken4Christ:
This is not the focus of our discussion. Is heaven and literal hell real? This is what we should dwell on.

Jonah went to hell and came back to tell his story but you don't believe him

Jesus went to hell and rose again to declare his victory, you still don't believe him.

Jesus narrated how the rich man went to hell in his story about the rich man and Lazarus, you still don't believe it. You call it a parable. Jesus must be insane to use such a horrible illustration as a parable if it's not real.

But many of his other teachings affirm the reality of hell.

So many have died, gone to hell, came back and narrated the reality of hell and how horrible that place is, you still don't believe them.

Why are you joking with your life. You want to be cast into hell before you believe it exist?

You have the opportunity to repent now. Stop hardening your heart especially when the truth concerning the subject is clearly revealed in the Bible.

Ken4Christ:
8

Why couldn't the fire destroy the beast and the false prophet thrown into the Lake of fire in Revelation 19:20? After over 1,000 years, they are still in there-'Revelation 20:10.

You have been brainwashed to believe the lies of the devil and reject the truth of God's word.

You had better repent before it will be too late.

Brother, let’s slow down and read what the text actually says, not what tradition forces into the text.
You brought up Revelation 19:20 and 20:10, so let’s address it carefully.

1️⃣ “The beast” and “the false prophet” are not individual human beings
Even conservative scholars agree these are symbols, not biological people.
The Beast = a political empire / system
The False Prophet = a religious system supporting that empire
These are not flesh-and-blood men you can put in a fire.

Symbolic beings don’t “burn” the way humans do, because they represent systems, not bodies.
Revelation is full of symbols:
a dragon with 7 heads
a lamb with 7 horns
stars falling like figs
a woman standing on the moon

Nobody interprets these literally, but suddenly the “beast” becomes a physical man in your doctrine.
That is selective literalism.


2️⃣ Revelation uses apocalyptic language, not physical descriptions
The Bible itself warns us that this book is full of signs:

“He made it known by signs…” * Revelation 1:1

Signs ≠ literal physics.

So when it says the beast and false prophet are “tormented,” it is describing the destruction of evil systems, not humans roasting forever.


3️⃣ You didn’t answer Matthew 10:28

Jesus clearly said:
“God can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.”

Destroy = end, not preserve forever in pain.
Your belief contradicts Jesus’ own words.


4️⃣ Eternal torture requires an immortal soul, something the Bible never teaches

You are assuming the soul:
cannot die
cannot be destroyed
will burn forever

But Jesus said it can be destroyed.
Paul said only God has immortality.
Ezekiel said “the soul that sins shall die.”

So where did the “eternal roasting” idea come from?
Greek philosophy, not Hebrew scripture.


5️⃣ “Repent before it’s too late” is not an argument
That is fear-based language, not scripture-based explanation.
Quoting Revelation doesn’t automatically prove your interpretation of it.

If the doctrine is true, it should stand without threats.


6️⃣ The deeper issue
You’re interpreting the most symbolic book in the Bible as if it’s a literal weather report.
That is how false doctrines arise.

Let’s stay consistent:
Literal texts we read literally.
Symbolic texts we read symbolically.
This is not rejecting God’s Word, this is respecting its context.

Final note

I’m not rejecting scripture; I’m rejecting man-made fear interpretations added centuries later.

If you want to reason from the Hebrew mindset and early Christian understanding, I’m here for it.

But fear is not theology.

Peace and Love
*TheAwakenSoul.

Truthseeker10:
This is funny....you clearly said as evident in the screenshot that Daniel was giving a political prophecy and not a consciousness teaching. So why are you pinning your statement on the isrealites?

You clearly also said that Daniel’s prophecy describes God establishing a kingdom that replaces oppressive systems. So I wonder why you are disowning your own statements and interpretation of Daniel 2:44.

You also claimed that Daniel’s 2:44 and Yeshua kingdom were two very different conversations.

I never claimed that earthly means a country with borders....that is your personal imagination....you clearly stated that Daniel's kingdom meant God was establishing a divine rulership on earth
A political/messianic expectation of national liberation
Daniel was not giving a mystical teaching
He was giving a political prophecy for a suffering nation under foreign oppression.

You are funny.....you clearly stated as shown in the screenshot earlier that Daniel and Jesus were talking about two seperate subjects.......you claimed Jesus was talking about a different context, different era, different message and different audience.....so i wonder why you are trying to merge the two.....kindly show me any statement of Daniel in Daniel 2 that was partial.


🤣🤣Show me where in history that an external kingdom destroyed all other kingdoms and it alone stood forever according to Daniel 2:44.

Brother, let me clarify something you’re mixing up.

You keep using my statements as if they contradict each other, but that’s only because you’re forcing prophetic literature into a modern literal box.

Let’s go through your points one by one:

1️⃣ “Daniel gave a political prophecy” yes, for his audience

And that’s exactly how Hebrew prophecy works:
Immediate meaning for the people hearing it

Symbolic meaning expressed through imagery
Deeper meaning revealed later
This triple-layer structure is all over the prophets.
Calling Daniel’s message political for his people does not erase the symbolic and spiritual dimension the text also carries.
Both levels exist.
Both levels operate simultaneously.
This is not me “changing my words”, it’s how prophetic literature functions.


2️⃣ You said Daniel’s kingdom was “divine rulership on earth.” Correct.
But “divine rulership on earth” does not require:
a physical country
borders
a capital city
a government office
a literal stone rolling down a mountain

Prophetic language names God’s disruption of corrupt human power, not a geographic nation.
You falsely assume “earthly” = “physical country.”

That was never said.


3️⃣ You said Daniel and Yeshua spoke about different contexts, yes, different contexts, SAME arc.
Different context does NOT mean contradiction.
Example:
The Exodus was historical
The prophets used Exodus imagery as symbol
Yeshua used Exodus themes spiritually
Paul used Exodus themes ethically
One story, different layers, different applications.
This is how revelation matures.


4️⃣ Show you where Daniel’s revelation is partial?
Here you go:
Daniel saw a kingdom that destroys oppressive powers.
Jesus revealed the mechanism:
the kingdom grows within people → transforms societies → collapses corrupt systems.

Daniel saw the big picture,
Yeshua revealed the inner dimension of that same picture.
That is called progressive revelation, not contradiction.


5️⃣ “Show me where in history a kingdom destroyed all others and stood forever.”
You are reading the prophecy like a historian, not a Hebrew thinker.
Daniel’s imagery is cosmic, not a chronological newspaper timeline.

The prophecy describes:
God’s ultimate authority
the collapse of human empires
the emergence of a rule not dependent on political power
the eternal endurance of God’s kingdom vs temporary human systems
Every empire Daniel mentioned (Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome) collapsed.
Every human empire continues to collapse.

Meanwhile the kingdom of God spreads across:
people
cultures
societies
hearts
It is the only kingdom not built by human hands, and the only one still growing.
That is Daniel 2:44 being fulfilled — just not in the simplistic political way you expect.

👑 Final line to close it:
Prophecy is not confused;
our reading of prophecy usually is.

Peace and clarity, brother.
TheAwakenSoul

MaxInDHouse:
You are deceiving yourself!

In his fervent prayer to his father Jesus said:


I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be ONE as we are ONE. ‭John 17:22 NIV‬


And according to Paul the Apostle:


I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. ‭1 Corinthians 1:10 NIV‬



Peter the apostle said:
Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. ‭1 Peter 3:8 NIV‬


This is why they all concluded that when there is contradictions it's not from their teachings so true Christians should avoid supporters of contradictions.


I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. ‭Romans 16:17 NIV‬

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work. ‭2 John 1:10-11 NIV‬


Therefore if you and i aren't having the same line of thought in faith then i'm not your brother rather you and i are neighbors!

Thanks!🙂

Brother, thanks for sharing the verses, but none of the scriptures you quoted say what you’re trying to make them say.

1️⃣ Unity of spirit ≠ one human organization
When Jesus prayed “that they may be one” (John 17:22), He was speaking of spiritual unity, not a single religious group with one headquarters, one doctrine, one denomination.

If Jesus meant “one human organization,” then:
Why did the early church meet in many cities, each with different leaders?
Why didn’t the apostles create a single global structure?
Why did Paul rebuke Peter publicly? (Galatians 2:11)
Why did Paul allow different convictions on disputable matters? (Romans 14)

Unity is relational and spiritual, not organizational and institutional.

The Bible never once says:
“Join one human organization or you are not my brother.”

You added that idea, scripture didn’t.


2️⃣ The verses you quoted condemn division caused by false teaching, not “people who disagree with your group.”
Paul said:
“that there be no divisions among you.” (1 Cor 1:10)
What divisions was he talking about?
Read the context:
People were saying:
“I follow Paul”
“I follow Apollos”
“I follow Cephas”
Meaning: loyalty to a human group or leader.

So ironically, Paul is condemning the very thing you’re defending,
sectarianism, groupism, denominational superiority.


3️⃣ Being of “one mind” does not mean identical doctrines
Peter said:
“Be like-minded, be compassionate, be humble.” (1 Peter 3:
Like-minded in love, humility, compassion,
not:
identical interpretations
identical doctrines
identical organization

The apostles themselves had disagreements, but remained brothers.


4️⃣ You concluded something the Bible does not conclude
You said:
“Therefore if you and I aren’t having the same line of thought in faith then I’m not your brother.”
Show one verse where Jesus or any apostle said:
“If someone disagrees with your interpretation, they are not a Christian.”
It does not exist.

What does exist:
“By this everyone will know you are my disciples: if you love one another.” (John 13:35)
“Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.” (Romans 14:1)
Biblical brotherhood is based on love, not agreement on every doctrine.


5️⃣ Misusing scripture to defend an organization is exactly how cults form
No verse in the Bible says:
God has one religious organization on earth
Salvation depends on joining a group
Disagreement equals exclusion from brotherhood

What you shared shows organizational loyalty, not biblical interpretation.


My final point
Unity is in Christ, not in a corporation.
Oneness is spiritual, not institutional.
Brotherhood is based on love, not doctrinal uniformity.
And disagreement does not cancel brotherhood,
pride does.

Grace and clarity to you.
TheAwakenSoul

Dtruthspeaker:
Every act has an intention behind them, and so I see your intention and it is from there I am hateful of your response because it is built on your wish and therefore you are turning the Truth into a Lie. Which is proven by your excessively long argument.

Liars always talk too much

The Psychology of Lying and Talking Too Much
The general sentiment behind the idea is rooted in a psychological observation:
Over-explanation: A person telling a lie often provides unnecessary, insignificant minor details in an attempt to sound more credible and distract from the central untruth.
Creating a convincing narrative: Liars may add more information than an honest person would volunteer, hoping to "anchor and armor" their lie with many surrounding truths.

And this is what annoys me for you are Lying

For look at it all your arguments are always long and bulky?
Why?
Because there are many lies hidden among all those appearance of Truth.

And the beginning of your Lies is you reducing the bible to mere symbolism. Meanwhile, everyone knows that symbolism is indicative and passes a specific message the symbol I saying.

In your post with a crafty sleight of hand, you have changed the message of the symbols mixing it up and hiding it in the bigger whole of the storm of Lie you have created, making it difficult to spot and resolve as if you are caught one way, you would slip to another.

So, if indeed you are saying the Truth, then let's focus on only one issue which is the symbolism you are selling and let us see if you would not see that it does not stand at all. For it has even been settled that the bible is literal, even though we have not fully decoded all its symbolisms eg the 666 thing. (I have even decoded it but I am not going to tell anybody)

And you see another proof you are Wrong? See how everyone is always picking something wrong with your answer leading to an unending argument.

A fact that is true has little opposition and in the end the opposition have to stay silent. Because no valid argument can be made against a Truth

But see all the unending arguments you have threaded

Brother,
Let’s slow this down, because nothing you wrote actually addressed a single biblical point I made. You shifted from scripture to psychology, from theology to personal accusation. That alone shows you’re defending emotion, not truth.
So let me respond in clarity, not in heat:

1️⃣ Calling someone a liar is not an argument
You didn’t show:
where I misquoted a verse
where I changed the meaning of a passage
where I contradicted scripture

You simply said:
“You talk too much, therefore you’re lying.”

That is not Bible, that is not theology, that is not logic.
It’s an emotional reaction, not a refutation.


2️⃣ Length ≠ deception
Isaiah wrote long chapters.
Paul wrote long letters.
Jesus preached long sermons.

Using your psychology logic, every prophet who explained anything deeply would be a liar. Clearly, that is false.
Sometimes truth requires detail.
Confusion prefers shortcuts.


3️⃣ You still haven’t shown ONE scripture I misused
If I “hid lies,” then show:
the lie
the verse I twisted
the actual meaning you believe it teaches
Not accusation. Evidence.

Until then, all you have offered is emotion.


4️⃣ Symbolism in Revelation isn’t my idea, every scholar agrees
Calling Revelation symbolic is not “my wish.”
It is how apocalyptic literature works:
beasts = kingdoms
horns = kings
stars = rulers
the dragon = satan
lampstands = churches

We didn’t invent that.
The Bible itself explains its own symbols (Rev. 1:20, Dan. 7).

Symbolic does not mean “untrue.”
It means truth expressed through imagery, the same way prophets always spoke.

If you believe Revelation is 100% literal, then please explain literally:
a seven-headed dragon
stars falling to earth (mind you, one star is bigger than the earth)
a woman clothed with the sun
locusts with human faces

If you cannot take those literally (and nobody can), then you already accept symbolism.
So your argument collapses.


5️⃣ Truth isn’t determined by how many people oppose it
Your logic:
“People disagree with you, so you must be wrong.”

If that’s your standard, then Jesus Himself would be wrong because:
the Pharisees opposed Him
His own people rejected His message
His teaching constantly caused arguments

Opposition does not mean falsehood.
Sometimes it means you touched the very thing people are afraid to examine.


6️⃣ If you want to debate, focus on scripture, not psychology
So let’s do this cleanly:
Choose one verse I referenced.
Show how I misused it.
Show the correct meaning.
Use scripture, not emotion.

I’m here for clarity, not combat.

Peace and Love brother.
TheAwakenSoul

The first century disciples of Christ has only one single religious group with one headquarter, one doctrine.
That's why their teaching and doctrine is the same {1Corinthans 1:10} and their headquarter is Jerusalem! Act 2:42; 15:1-2
The word "DENOMINATION" they avoided like a plague because it means they won't be united in faith.
If anyone is DISFELLOWSHIPED anywhere such a person can't associate with Christians in any other land until he has repented and reinstated as a disciple but today the demonic term that Christendom is using has opened the door for lawlessness so that when one commits adultery or fornication in rccg he could run to Deeperlife if he steals in mfm he can start associating with chosen hence the essence of disfellowshiping is no longer there.
According to Act 15:28-29 all disciples of Christ in the first century have the same line of thought regarding what is wrong but that can't be with that demonic term DENOMINATION.
Please i'm not your brother you and i are neighbors!🙂

Theawakensoul:
Unity of spirit ≠ one human organization
When Jesus prayed “that they may be one” (John 17:22), He was speaking of spiritual unity, not a single religious group with one headquarters, one doctrine, one denomination.

Theawakensoul:
Brother,
Let’s slow this down, because nothing you wrote actually addressed a single biblical point I made....

You didn’t show:
where I misquoted a verse
where I changed the meaning of a passage
where I contradicted scripture

You still haven’t shown ONE scripture I misused
If I “hid lies,” then show:
the lie
the verse I twisted
the actual meaning you believe it teaches
Not accusation.

I already pointed out that because you know you are lying, you have created a bulk of lies as proven by people picking something wrong with it, and now the thread shows an unending unfruitful argument.

And right here and now you are the author of confusion

Theawakensoul:
[/quote][quote author=Theawakensoul post=137666264]2️⃣ Length ≠ deception
Isaiah wrote long chapters.
Paul wrote long letters.
Jesus preached long sermons.

Using your psychology logic, every prophet who explained anything deeply would be a liar. Clearly, that is false.
Sometimes truth requires detail.

And see how you are proving that you are a fraud? For you verily know not to take my argument out of context but you had to make this fallacious argument as you pretend not to know that Isaiah,Paul and Jesus where talking to people who knew what they were saying and as you see their people did not say that they are Lying as they argued with them.

But for you, right from the beginning people have already fallted your lies which is why you now made this fallacy to cover your lies.

Theawakensoul:
4️⃣ Symbolism in Revelation isn’t my idea, every scholar agrees>>

If you believe Revelation is 100% literal, then please explain literally:
a seven-headed dragon
stars falling to earth (mind you, one star is bigger than the earth)
a woman clothed with the sun
locusts with human faces

If you cannot take those literally (and nobody can), then you already accept symbolism.
So your argument collapses.

See, fallacy of reversing the burden and fallacy of the denying the antecedent and many other fallacies.

Meanwhile, many have misunderstood the symbolism vs literalism issue but were they asked questions, you came confidently out to come and declare it is symbolic.

Theawakensoul:
Brother, let me clarify something you’re mixing up.

You keep using my statements as if they contradict each other, but that’s only because you’re forcing prophetic literature into a modern literal box.

Let’s go through your points one by one:

1️⃣ “Daniel gave a political prophecy” yes, for his audience

And that’s exactly how Hebrew prophecy works:
Immediate meaning for the people hearing it

Symbolic meaning expressed through imagery
Deeper meaning revealed later
This triple-layer structure is all over the prophets.
Calling Daniel’s message political for his people does not erase the symbolic and spiritual dimension the text also carries.
Both levels exist.
Both levels operate simultaneously.
This is not me “changing my words”, it’s how prophetic literature functions.

oga are you denying that you said as evident in the screenshot that Daniel was giving a political prophecy and not a consciousness teaching?

So where are you getting all your symbolism from?

Are you denying that you said that they were very two different conversations?

2️⃣ You said Daniel’s kingdom was “divine rulership on earth.” Correct.
But “divine rulership on earth” does not require:
a physical country
borders
a capital city
a government office
a literal stone rolling down a mountain

Prophetic language names God’s disruption of corrupt human power, not a geographic nation.
You falsely assume “earthly” = “physical country.”

That was never said.

So you are saying that the kingdom will not be in any location on earth but the kingdom will be earthly🤣🤣?

3️⃣ You said Daniel and Yeshua spoke about different contexts, yes, different contexts, SAME arc.
Different context does NOT mean contradiction.
Example:
The Exodus was historical
The prophets used Exodus imagery as symbol
Yeshua used Exodus themes spiritually
Paul used Exodus themes ethically
One story, different layers, different applications.
This is how revelation matures.

Oga are you so cunning to refuse to admit that you said that Yeshua's kingdom was also a different message, different era and different audience from that of Daniel?

Show you where Daniel’s revelation is partial?
Here you go:
Daniel saw a kingdom that destroys oppressive powers.
Jesus revealed the mechanism:
the kingdom grows within people → transforms societies → collapses corrupt systems.

Daniel saw the big picture,
Yeshua revealed the inner dimension of that same picture.
That is called progressive revelation, not contradiction.

lol....you clearly said that Daniel’s kingdom was external and that Yeshua’s kingdom was internal. Oga how do these kingdoms mean the same thing? 🤣🤣🤣so is it an external kingdom that grows within people, What kind of contradiction is this?

5️⃣ “Show me where in history a kingdom destroyed all others and stood forever.”
You are reading the prophecy like a historian, not a Hebrew thinker.
Daniel’s imagery is cosmic, not a chronological newspaper timeline.

The prophecy describes:
God’s ultimate authority
the collapse of human empires
the emergence of a rule not dependent on political power
the eternal endurance of God’s kingdom vs temporary human systems
Every empire Daniel mentioned (Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome) collapsed.
Every human empire continues to collapse.

Meanwhile the kingdom of God spreads across:
people
cultures
societies
hearts
It is the only kingdom not built by human hands, and the only one still growing.
That is Daniel 2:44 being fulfilled — just not in the simplistic political way you expect.

👑 Final line to close it:
Prophecy is not confused;
our reading of prophecy usually is.

Peace and clarity, brother.
TheAwakenSoul

🤣🤣So are you telling me that the political systems that we have today have actually reduced since the time of Daniel’s prophecy?

Theawakensoul:
Brother, let’s slow down and read what the text actually says, not what tradition forces into the text.
You brought up Revelation 19:20 and 20:10, so let’s address it carefully.

1️⃣ “The beast” and “the false prophet” are not individual human beings
Even conservative scholars agree these are symbols, not biological people.
The Beast = a political empire / system
The False Prophet = a religious system supporting that empire
These are not flesh-and-blood men you can put in a fire.

Symbolic beings don’t “burn” the way humans do, because they represent systems, not bodies.
Revelation is full of symbols:
a dragon with 7 heads
a lamb with 7 horns
stars falling like figs
a woman standing on the moon

Nobody interprets these literally, but suddenly the “beast” becomes a physical man in your doctrine.
That is selective literalism.


2️⃣ Revelation uses apocalyptic language, not physical descriptions
The Bible itself warns us that this book is full of signs:

“He made it known by signs…” * Revelation 1:1

Signs ≠ literal physics.

So when it says the beast and false prophet are “tormented,” it is describing the destruction of evil systems, not humans roasting forever.


3️⃣ You didn’t answer Matthew 10:28

Jesus clearly said:
“God can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.”

Destroy = end, not preserve forever in pain.
Your belief contradicts Jesus’ own words.


4️⃣ Eternal torture requires an immortal soul, something the Bible never teaches

You are assuming the soul:
cannot die
cannot be destroyed
will burn forever

But Jesus said it can be destroyed.
Paul said only God has immortality.
Ezekiel said “the soul that sins shall die.”

So where did the “eternal roasting” idea come from?
Greek philosophy, not Hebrew scripture.


5️⃣ “Repent before it’s too late” is not an argument
That is fear-based language, not scripture-based explanation.
Quoting Revelation doesn’t automatically prove your interpretation of it.

If the doctrine is true, it should stand without threats.


6️⃣ The deeper issue
You’re interpreting the most symbolic book in the Bible as if it’s a literal weather report.
That is how false doctrines arise.

Let’s stay consistent:
Literal texts we read literally.
Symbolic texts we read symbolically.
This is not rejecting God’s Word, this is respecting its context.

Final note

I’m not rejecting scripture; I’m rejecting man-made fear interpretations added centuries later.

If you want to reason from the Hebrew mindset and early Christian understanding, I’m here for it.

But fear is not theology.

Peace and Love
*TheAwakenSoul.

The beast is a human being. What is symbolic are the ten horns and ten crowns on his head. The ten horns represents 10 European nations he will rule from known as the revived Roman Empire.

The false prophets who looks like a lamb is the false Christ the Jews will accept as their long awaited Messiah. He has two horns symbolic of the nations of Judah and Israel.

If they are both symbolic, it means Satan is also symbolic because he was thrown into the same Lake of fire the beast and the false prophet are.

They are real my friend. Don't be deceived. All those whose names will not be found in the book of life will be thrown into the Lake of fire - Revelation 20:15.

Is your name in the book of life? This should bother you. Otherwise, you will be thrown into that horrible fire. Our Lord Jesus said everything written in the book of Revelation will surely come to pass.

Ken4Christ:
The beast is a human being. What is symbolic are the ten horns and ten crowns on his head. The ten horns represents 10 European nations he will rule from known as the revived Roman Empire.

The false prophets who looks like a lamb is the false Christ the Jews will accept as their long awaited Messiah. He has two horns symbolic of the nations of Judah and Israel.

If they are both symbolic, it means Satan is also symbolic because he was thrown into the same Lake of fire the beast and the false prophet are.

They are real my friend. Don't be deceived. All those whose names will not be found in the book of life will be thrown into the Lake of fire - Revelation 20:15.

Is your name in the book of life? This should bother you. Otherwise, you will be thrown into that horrible fire. Our Lord Jesus said everything written in the book of Revelation will surely come to pass.

Brother, let’s stay with scripture and consistency, because your interpretation keeps switching between literal and symbolic depending on what supports your doctrine.

1️⃣ You say the Beast is a literal human…
But the Bible never says that.
Revelation never calls the Beast “a man.”
Instead, it literally tells us how to interpret it:

“The seven heads are seven mountains…
The ten horns are ten kings.” (Rev 17:9–12)

Scripture itself interprets every part of the Beast symbolically,
yet you pick only one piece and insist that part is literal.
That is not biblical interpretation; that is selective interpretation.


2️⃣ The Beast and the False Prophet are treated the same way as the Dragon (Satan)
But even the Dragon is described symbolically:

“The great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns…” (Rev 12:3)
Nobody believes Satan literally has 7 heads and 10 horns.

So your argument becomes:
The horns are symbolic
The heads are symbolic
The crowns are symbolic
The Beast is symbolic
The False Prophet is symbolic
The Dragon is symbolic
…but somehow the Lake of Fire is literal and physical torture.

That is inconsistent, brother.
Revelation 1:1 already warned us:
“He made it known by SIGNS.”
Signs ≠ literal physics.


3️⃣ Systems can be destroyed forever, that is the whole point of apocalyptic imagery
When Revelation says the Beast and False Prophet are “tormented,” it's describing the complete destruction of the systems they represent.
Just like how Babylon “fell” in Revelation, not a lady named Babylon, but a system.
If “Babylon” isn’t a literal woman and, “the woman clothed with the sun” isn’t a literal woman and, “the dragon” isn’t a literal reptile…
…then the Beast isn’t a literal man.
Revelation is a vision, not CCTV footage.


4️⃣ Matthew 10:28 still stands and you keep avoiding it
Jesus, not John, not a vision, but Jesus Himself, said:
“God can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.”
Not torture.
Not preserve forever.
Destroy.
If the soul can be destroyed, then eternal conscious torture is impossible.
Your teaching contradicts the Messiah.


5️⃣ “Is your name in the book of life?” is not a proof, it’s fear psychology
Fear is not an argument; it’s a tool used when evidence is missing.
If your interpretation is correct, you shouldn’t need fear to defend it.
Jesus said:
“You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you FREE.”
Not terrified.


6️⃣ Revelation is a symbolic book. Jesus Himself said so.
Once again:
Revelation 1:1, “He made it known by signs.”
No other book in the Bible begins with that disclaimer.
If you read signs literally, you will always create doctrines the Bible never taught.


7️⃣ Final point: A symbolic reading does not deny judgment
God judges evil, absolutely.
But judgment in scripture often means:
destruction
removal
end of wickedness
cleansing

Not eternal roasting.
The only place the “eternal torture narrative” came from is Greek dualism, not Hebrew scripture.
Jesus, Moses, Paul, Ezekiel, none taught immortal souls suffering forever.

My brother, the issue isn’t whether Revelation will be fulfilled.
It’s how we interpret its signs.
Literalizing symbols leads to fear-based religion.
Interpreting symbols as symbols leads to clarity.
I choose clarity.

Peace and Love to you brother,
TheAwakenSoul TAS

Theawakensoul:
Brother, let’s stay with scripture and consistency, because your interpretation keeps switching between literal and symbolic depending on what supports your doctrine.

1️⃣ You say the Beast is a literal human…
But the Bible never says that.
Revelation never calls the Beast “a man.”
Instead, it literally tells us how to interpret it:

“The seven heads are seven mountains…
The ten horns are ten kings.” (Rev 17:9–12)

Scripture itself interprets every part of the Beast symbolically,
yet you pick only one piece and insist that part is literal.
That is not biblical interpretation; that is selective interpretation.


2️⃣ The Beast and the False Prophet are treated the same way as the Dragon (Satan)
But even the Dragon is described symbolically:

“The great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns…” (Rev 12:3)
Nobody believes Satan literally has 7 heads and 10 horns.

So your argument becomes:
The horns are symbolic
The heads are symbolic
The crowns are symbolic
The Beast is symbolic
The False Prophet is symbolic
The Dragon is symbolic
…but somehow the Lake of Fire is literal and physical torture.

That is inconsistent, brother.
Revelation 1:1 already warned us:
“He made it known by SIGNS.”
Signs ≠ literal physics.


3️⃣ Systems can be destroyed forever, that is the whole point of apocalyptic imagery
When Revelation says the Beast and False Prophet are “tormented,” it's describing the complete destruction of the systems they represent.
Just like how Babylon “fell” in Revelation, not a lady named Babylon, but a system.
If “Babylon” isn’t a literal woman and, “the woman clothed with the sun” isn’t a literal woman and, “the dragon” isn’t a literal reptile…
…then the Beast isn’t a literal man.
Revelation is a vision, not CCTV footage.


4️⃣ Matthew 10:28 still stands and you keep avoiding it
Jesus, not John, not a vision, but Jesus Himself, said:
“God can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.”
Not torture.
Not preserve forever.
Destroy.
If the soul can be destroyed, then eternal conscious torture is impossible.
Your teaching contradicts the Messiah.


5️⃣ “Is your name in the book of life?” is not a proof, it’s fear psychology
Fear is not an argument; it’s a tool used when evidence is missing.
If your interpretation is correct, you shouldn’t need fear to defend it.
Jesus said:
“You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you FREE.”
Not terrified.


6️⃣ Revelation is a symbolic book. Jesus Himself said so.
Once again:
Revelation 1:1, “He made it known by signs.”
No other book in the Bible begins with that disclaimer.
If you read signs literally, you will always create doctrines the Bible never taught.


7️⃣ Final point: A symbolic reading does not deny judgment
God judges evil, absolutely.
But judgment in scripture often means:
destruction
removal
end of wickedness
cleansing

Not eternal roasting.
The only place the “eternal torture narrative” came from is Greek dualism, not Hebrew scripture.
Jesus, Moses, Paul, Ezekiel, none taught immortal souls suffering forever.

My brother, the issue isn’t whether Revelation will be fulfilled.
It’s how we interpret its signs.
Literalizing symbols leads to fear-based religion.
Interpreting symbols as symbols leads to clarity.
I choose clarity.

Peace and Love to you brother,
TheAwakenSoul TAS

I will get back to you on this. There are other references outside the book of Revelation that confirms he is a man.

Ken4Christ:
I will get back to you on this. There are other references outside the book of Revelation that confirms he is a man.

He has finally shown himself that he is a saytaneest occult

Dtruthspeaker:
He has finally shown himself that he is a saytaneest occult

Wow yet another one.

Ha, this is serious disease ooo