₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
That word "programmed" is one of the differences that has blown away your case.

programme
/ˈprəʊɡram/
verb
past tense: programmed; past participle: programmed
1. provide (a computer or other machine) with coded instructions for the automatic performance of a task.

No codes are provided to a baby.

2) freewill means freedom- a right and power to serve or not serve a person. A. I is exactly the phone in your hands and the car you drive. It is built to serve you.

And you buy A.i exactly like your TV, shoes and clothes.

So, you see it is disgraceful of you to be saying that a thing, it is even software programme like Microsoft word and Excel,that is put in devices and maachines like an engine or alternator, is what you are raising to the level of humanity, it is not even standing on its own that you we can say see "A.i standing there. Or see A.i taking a stroll"

It is hiding inside a machine or tool exactly how viruses and bacteria and car batteries hide inside a body. This is very low man.

Too low indeed to continue. You were asked a simple question. There's a reason "programmed" is in quotes. Humans are "programmed" by their experiences just like AI and their "freewill" is constrained by that "programming" just like AI.

We all know stories of children raised by animals who, when rescued, think they're one of those animals and behaved like them!
https://youtube.com/shorts/aVY07rZR0fw?si=PRhkC4q7HxK-_5sM

DiarisGodoo:
Too low indeed to continue. You were asked a simple question. There's a reason "programmed" is in quotes. Humans are "programmed" by their experiences just like AI and their "freewill" is constrained by that "programming" just like AI.

We all know stories of children raised by animals who, when rescued, think they're one of those animals and behaved like them!
https://youtube.com/shorts/aVY07rZR0fw?si=PRhkC4q7HxK-_5sM

It tells you how far gone you are to believe a child could be raised by a dog.

Radios engines, computers are programmed. The regular human (not the ones who grew up in place where the crimes against humanity were perpetrated) learns by observation and repetition and then school makes him aware that he does something called thinking and processing (the very beginning of freewill) before he acts.

So, no human is programmed.

But A.i is already programmed an initio. And then it has been programmed to have more programme to do more programmed activities.

And that is why you cannot answer as you have seen the definition of programming does not in any way apply to humans.

Dtruthspeaker:
If your will operates within constraints you didn’t choose, it’s not free, it’s just an illusion at best. Did we choose to be born and participate in life in the first place? Did we choose our genetic makeup, the structure of our brain, the way your biology reacts to our environment, the century or location we were born into, our temperament/personality, our trauma, our instincts, or our cognitive limits? Obviously no to all those questions - not even a single yes - ergo no free will.

Imagine claiming a prisoner is free because during his set alloted "free time" he can choose to go to the gym or library. Or a chess piece thinking it’s free because it can move in the directions the game allows, but it forgets it can’t move outside the board or in any direction not permitted. Wonder why people still spout this buried argument.
Very apt indeed.
Cc: Dtruthspeaker, MaxInDHouse



This is thrash

Free already means
free
/friː/
adjective 1. able to act or be done as one wishes;

Will already means
Will
/wɪl/
Verb 1. An expression of a personal desire, wish or choice,

So freewill is the combination of those words which mean "an ability to act in expression of one's personal desire, wish or choice"

No where is it stated that there must be no constraints or limitation for freewill to be freewill.

As long as you were free to will and act or refrain from acting, freewill has been fully and freely exercised and implemented.

And that is why when you have agreed to pay the price of fuel, you cannot say and you do not say that you did not have freewill. It is as simple and clear as that and so there is no debate on this issue.

That guy is right, you sound rather shallow. Why not read up on these things some b4 arguing further.
If you can will whatever you wish why are there addictions, depressions, all the way to suicides?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxHL_4HKYGs?si=Lgk2pt3zwTQgutnI

.

QuinQ:
That guy is right, you sound rather shallow. Why not read up on these things some b4 arguing further.

You are the ones who are shallow if not you would counter my points here to prove your belief.

In this issue, it is either you guys are right and I am wrong or vice versa. So if you think you are right counter my answer if you can.

QuinQ:
If you can will whatever you wish why are there addictions, depressions, all the way to suicides?I

Look at the definitions, does it define free as obtain your goal arising from your act?

No

Or does it define will as obtaining the fruits of your will?

No.

It only says "ability to act to do your wishes or desire whether you are successful or not."

Same for will which is expression of your personal desire, wish or choice whether it given/received or not.

So frustrations and depressions or joys and happiness are other things that separate and distinct as one of the bye products of the exercise of your freewill.

And you see, you choose depression forgetting it's opposite is joy. And this is why we Christians tell you little atheists or atheists wannabes that it is your delus that is controlling you and making you believe things you know that they are Lies, because of the pains and sufferings and depressions you guys go through since you exercised your freewill to reject God and His Ways. But no problem, I respect your freewill.

So back to the issue, depressions and joys are simply bye products arising from your use of your freewill. And suicide, is even an example of an exercise of freewill exactly how choosing to drive safely is the exercise of your freewill to live.

Man wills what he wills and can will whatever he wills to will, but, it is up to the Will of those greater than man to determine whether the man's will, will materialize.

Dtruthspeaker:
You are the ones who are shallow if not you would counter my points here to prove your belief.

In this issue, it is either you guys are right and I am wrong or vice versa. So if you think you are right counter my answer if you can.



Look at the definitions, does it define free as obtain your goal arising from your act?

No

Or does it define will as obtaining the fruits of your will?

No.

It only says "ability to act to do your wishes or desire whether you are successful or not."

Same for will which is expression of your personal desire, wish or choice whether it given/received or not.

So frustrations and depressions or joys and happiness are other things that separate and distinct as one of the bye products of the exercise of your freewill.

And you see, you choose depression forgetting it's opposite is joy. And this is why we Christians tell you little atheists or atheists wannabes that it is your delus that is controlling you and making you believe things you know that they are Lies, because of the pains and sufferings and depressions you guys go through since you exercised your freewill to reject God and His Ways. But no problem, I respect your freewill.

So back to the issue, depressions and joys are simply bye products arising from your use of your freewill. And suicide, is even an example of an exercise of freewill exactly how choosing to drive safely is the exercise of your freewill to live.

Man wills what he wills and can will whatever he wills to will, but, it is up to the Will of those greater than man to determine whether the man's will, will materialize.

Has nothing to do with atheist. I have already said all this is from HUMAN perspective and that there are likely things we're not aware of.
Do some research on free will and what people smarter than yourself say.
Where do your thoughts come from? Do you decide it?
Those thoughts lead to your choices. Where does your intuition come from? Do you decide it? These things originate with activities in inner recesses of your brain that you are not aware of, based on your past experiences you have likely long since forgotten
Not only that, neurological science has determined that your choice appears on your brain BEFORE you consciously make a choice. Google it and stop arguing long-settloed matter

QuinQ:
Has nothing to do with atheist. I have already said all this is from HUMAN perspective and that there are likely things we're not aware of.
Do some research on free will and what people smarter than yourself say.

It has everything to do with atheism. It is only atheists who make this silly claim.

And I told you already if you think they are right then bring your counter or their counters now, after all you already believe them, then it means you can represent them.

QuinQ:
Where do your thoughts come from? Do you decide it?
Those thoughts lead to your choices. Where does your intuition come from? Do you decide it? These things originate with activities in inner recesses of your brain that you are not aware of, based on your past experiences you have likely long since forgotten
Not only that, neurological science has determined that your choice appears on your brain BEFORE you consciously make a choice. Google it and stop arguing long-settloed matter

All these are rubbish and fallacious arguments for the definition of freewill does not care about where freewill comes from.

It is only concerned about your ability to do or refrain from doing a thing in accordance to your wish, desire or will.

So, that argument is a change of Post and departure from post

According to the concept described in patent DE10253433A1, human thoughts could theoretically be captured, processed, and transmitted to an external server. In such a scenario, the server could analyze thought-patterns in a way similar to how Google processes search queries.

In theory, this could allow systems to detect certain harmful intentions before they turn into real actions. For example, if someone’s thought-patterns indicated preparation for a crime, law enforcement might be able to intervene before the crime is committed.

Dtruthspeaker:
It has everything to do with atheism. It is only atheists who make this silly claim.

And I told you already if you think they are right then bring your counter or their counters now, after all you already believe them, then it means you can represent them.



All these are rubbish and fallacious arguments for the definition of freewill does not care about where freewill comes from.

It is only concerned about your ability to do or refrain from doing a thing in accordance to your wish, desire or will.

So, that argument is a change of Post and departure from post

Well. Einstein was NOT an atheist. See his take on freewill below. Many other non-atheists also.
You'd seem to be the atheist since you don't believe in God's pre-knowledge of all things that'll happen (see cartoon below).
You were asked what man can do with his "freewill" that AI can't do with it"s. No answer, instead you came up with some ridiculousity.
Why not will yourself not to think of a pink elephant or to stop feeling happy or sad.
Anyway, the cartoon below says you're an atheist who doesn't believe God's omniscience. Explain how it is wrong.

QuinQ:
MaxInDHouse
How can it possibly be Adam's fault that he ate the apple?!

Instead of seeking support from others try to be confident of what you believe.

Adam was warned regarding the result of disobedience to that instruction so it's his fault!

MarcinScholke:
According to the concept described in patent DE10253433A1, human thoughts could theoretically be captured, processed, and transmitted to an external server. In such a scenario, the server could analyze thought-patterns in a way similar to how Google processes search queries.

In theory, this could allow systems to detect certain harmful intentions before they turn into real actions. For example, if someone’s thought-patterns indicated preparation for a crime, law enforcement might be able to intervene before the crime is committed.

Amazing!

MaxInDHouse:
Instead of seeking support from others try to be confident of what you believe.

Adam was warned regarding the result of disobedience to that instruction so it's his fault!

It is totally ridiculous to say it was his fault (from human perspective)
1. God already knew he'd eat the apple (tell me how this does not imply he had no choice)
2. He saw that Eve ate the apple and did not die and became wiser.
3. His brain came up with the notion that the best thing for him to do was to eat the apple. He did not make his brain nor control it nor can override it
4. It was the very first time. If it were the second time and he was severely punished the first time then warned never to do it again, different.
5. It was his very first time and he already saw his wife eat it and nothing happened to her!

QuinQ:
It is totally ridiculous to say it was his fault (from human perspective)
God already knew he'd eat

Who told you God knew before hand that Adam will eat the forbidden fruit?

Presumptuousness again!

MaxInDHouse:
Who told you God knew before hand that Adam will eat the forbidden fruit?

Presumptuousness again!

Ok, so you're an atheist who doesn't believe God is omniscient, all-knowing, and has pre-knowledge of everything. Okay o.

QuinQ:
Ok, so you're an atheist who doesn't believe God is omniscient, all-knowing, and has pre-knowledge of everything. Okay o.

Answer the question Mr Atheist.

Where in the Bible did God told you He is omniscient?

QuinQ:
Well. Einstein was NOT an atheist. See his take on freewill below. Many other non-atheists also.

Einstein not believing in freewill, is him refusing to enter the argument.

So, he does not say that anybody right or left is right.

And the argument is not about what Einstein says or anybody says, atheist or not. I only pointed out that it is only you atheists who make this silly claim. Einstein did not make it rather it is you people who asked him how he views it, which you see, he did not want to enter into the argument. So he is not in the argument and all this OFF POINT.

Thus, the argument is about you supplying a valid counter to the argument I have raised above but YOU CANNOT and that is where the argument is

QuinQ:
You'd seem to be the atheist since you don't believe in God's pre-knowledge of all things that'll happen (see cartoon below).

This is OFF POINT/DEPARTURE FROM THE ARGUMENT

QuinQ:
You were asked what man can do with his "freewill" that AI can't do with it"s. No answer, instead you came up with some ridiculousity.
Why not will yourself not to think of a pink elephant or to stop feeling happy or sad.
Anyway, the cartoon below says you're an atheist who doesn't believe God's omniscience. Explain how it is wrong.

Still Off Point and not the argument between you and I.

And the thread shows that I answered him and you see he responded getting the import of my answer, which as you can see, he could no longer make any valid argument after that so, he kept quiet.

So, this, does not stand.

And the cartoon question is off point and it is a question that has several threads dealing with it, so go to those threads and learn how it works.

https://www.nairaland.com/371817/predestination-vs-free#5200680

Even an atheist still made the connection and confessed the Truth of it.

Re: Predestination Vs Free Will by Horus(m): 2:32pm On Dec 28, 2009

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

MaxInDHouse:
Answer the question Mr Atheist.

Where in the Bible did God told you He is omniscient?

I believe God knows everything. You mark yourself Atheist for not believing that. So Mr. Atheist go check out the following verses in the Bible and come report back to us:
Psalm 139:1-4 , Hebrews 4:13, Proverbs 15:3, Isaiah 46:9

QuinQ:
I believe God knows everything.

I won't cite but quote God Himself.


Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.” ‭Genesis 18:20-21 NIV

“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.” ‭Genesis 22:12 NIV‬‬

Who said He wants to go and confirm what is happening in Sodom and Gomorrah?
And who said He just knew Abraham truly had godly fear?

Dtruthspeaker:
Einstein not believing in freewill, is him refusing to enter the argument.

So, he does not say that anybody right or left is right.

And the argument is not about what Einstein says or anybody says, atheist or not. I only pointed out that it is only you atheists who make this silly claim. Einstein did not make it rather it is you people who asked him how he views it, which you see, he did not want to enter into the argument. So he is not in the argument and all this OFF POINT.

Thus, the argument is about you supplying a valid counter to the argument I have raised above but YOU CANNOT and that is where the argument is



This is OFF POINT/DEPARTURE FROM THE ARGUMENT



Still Off Point and not the argument between you and I.

And the thread shows that I answered him and you see he responded getting the import of my answer, which as you can see, he could no longer make any valid argument after that so, he kept quiet.

So, this, does not stand.

And the cartoon question is off point and it is a question that has several threads dealing with it, so go to those threads and learn how it works.

https://www.nairaland.com/371817/predestination-vs-free#5200680

Even an atheist still made the connection and confessed the Truth of it.

Re: Predestination Vs Free Will by Horus(m): 2:32pm On Dec 28, 2009

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

Our guy doesn't even read. See very shortened form of what Einstein said below. Maybe you can read that.

Don't mark yourself a liar. You never answered the guy about AI or you'd simply state your answer here.

What EXACTLY is this argument you keep saying you raised that cannot be answered. State it again because all I see from you is ridiculousity.

You keep saying "off-point". Why not say what exactly is off point and why. The Bible says in several places that God knows everything and even knows your thoughts before you think them. Or don't you believe in the Bible?

How can you believe in God and not believe he knows everything that will ever happen, meaning you don't believe in God - Atheit!

MaxInDHouse:
I won't cite but quote God Himself.


Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.” ‭Genesis 18:20-21 NIV

“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.” ‭Genesis 22:12 NIV‬‬

Who said He wants to go and confirm what is happening in Sodom and Gomorrah?
And who said He just knew Abraham truly had godly fear?

How can you say you believe in God and not instinctively know he knows EVERYTHING?? The Bible even says he knows your thoughts before you think them. So, bottom line, you don't believe in God or you believe in a limited God, NOT the all-powerul, all-knowing true God.
You were told to read the verses and report back.

QuinQ:
Our guy doesn't even read. See very shortened form of what Einstein said below. Maybe you can read that.

If truly you can read you would see that Einstein does not say "those who believe in freewill are wrong".

He just says he, Einstein does not believe in it. Simple English.

And the argument is not about what Einstein says or anybody says, but about you supplying a valid counter to the argument I have raised above before you brought Einstein, which you failed to counter as you dodged it to start saying Einstein said.

QuinQ:
Don't mark yourself a liar. You never answered the guy about AI or you'd simply state your answer here.

If I did not answer the guy's questions, you would have shown where he said I did not answer his question when he responded to my answer.

So, it is you who lying against me.

QuinQ:
What EXACTLY is this argument you keep saying you raised that cannot be answered. State it again because all I see from you is ridiculousity.

Our argument is at this point
https://www.nairaland.com/8569885/christianity-free-modern-technology-devices/2#137639045

Where you now replied to my off point remark saying it "Has nothing to do with atheist" and you never"came back" to counter my answer saying "Look at the definitions, does it define free as obtain your goal arising from your act?
No"

QuinQ:
You keep saying "off-point". Why not say what exactly is off point and why.
The Bible says in several places that God knows everything and even knows your thoughts before you think them. Or don't you believe in the Bible?

How can you believe in God and not believe he knows everything that will ever happen, meaning you don't believe in God - Atheit!

Do you not know that invalid and unlawful arguments are not allowed?

Or do you not know that themeaning of Off means the invalid argument of leaving and running away from the argument in issue to start raising another arguement on another issue?

It is also the fallacy known as
Red Herring
The red herring fallacy is an intentional tactic where an irrelevant topic is introduced to deliberately distract the audience's attention from the original, important issue.

I even told this has been answered in this thread by even an atheist

Re: Predestination Vs Free Will by Horus(m): 2:32pm On Dec 28, 2009

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

So, you are just pretending you don't understand because you do not have any right thing to say again.

Dtruthspeaker:
If truly you can read you would see that Einstein does not say "those who believe in freewill are wrong".

He just says he, Einstein does not believe in it. Simple English.

And the argument is not about what Einstein says or anybody says, but about you supplying a valid counter to the argument I have raised above before you brought Einstein, which you failed to counter as you dodged it to start saying Einstein said.



If I did not answer the guy's questions, you would have shown where he said I did not answer his question when he responded to my answer.

So, it is you who lying against me.



Our argument is at this point
https://www.nairaland.com/8569885/christianity-free-modern-technology-devices/2#137639045

Where you now replied to my off point remark saying it "Has nothing to do with atheist" and you never"came back" to counter my answer saying "Look at the definitions, does it define free as obtain your goal arising from your act?
No"



Do you not know that invalid and unlawful arguments are not allowed?

Or do you not know that themeaning of Off means the invalid argument of leaving and running away from the argument in issue to start raising another arguement on another issue?

It is also the fallacy known as
Red Herring
The red herring fallacy is an intentional tactic where an irrelevant topic is introduced to deliberately distract the audience's attention from the original, important issue.

I even told this has been answered in this thread by even an atheist

Re: Predestination Vs Free Will by Horus(m): 2:32pm On Dec 28, 2009

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

So, you are just pretending you don't understand because you do not have any right thing to say again.

Ok, now that I see what you were incoherently rambling let me respond to you.

What nullifies your obviously shallow-thinking going-out-in-the-rain point is that you say it doesn't matter the reason you go or don't out in the rain. Because in that case AI or even any automaton designed to respond to rain has exactly same "freewill"!

Have you conceded that God knows everything?

QuinQ:
Ok, now that I see what you were incoherently rambling let me respond to you.

What nullifies your obviously shallow-thinking going-out-in-the-rain point is that you say it doesn't matter the reason you go or don't out in the rain. Because in that case AI or even any automaton designed to respond to rain has exactly same "freewill"!

No where did I say anything about reason for going out.

Secondly, a.i is software, like Microsoft word, so it cannot go into the rain or anything on its own

QuinQ:
Have you conceded that God knows everything?

Still Off Point! Besides your atheists brother has already drawn the connection and distinction between predestination and freewill

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

Dtruthspeaker:
No where did I say anything about reason for going out.

Secondly, a.i is software, like Microsoft word, so it cannot go into the rain or anything on its own



Still Off Point! Besides your atheists brother has already drawn the connection and distinction between predestination and freewill

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

Then who said what you wrote in the screenshot below?
Whether you go out in the rain or not is entirely dependent on the type of brain you were given and your past experiences with rain (some of which you may no longer even consciously remember - example, there could be a childhood trauma you had long since forgotten).
Same with AI, whether it decides to go out in the rain is dependent on the type of "brain" it was given and it's past experiences with rain!

But why can't people like you just tell TRUTH?! Tell me how there is freewill when someone can fortell 100's of years in advance that a baby will be born in a manger? Any of the people involved in the intervening years can nullify the prophecy with their freewill. Example, all it takes is for one of guests at the inn to use his freewill to give up his room to Mary and Joseph!

Obviously you don't know what next to say after reading what God said about Himself. This has nothing to do with your presumptuous instinct rather what God said about Himself.
So if you don't believe God's own utterances i'm sorry there's no way i can help you!🙂

QuinQ:
How can you say you believe in God and not instinctively know he knows EVERYTHING?? The Bible even says he knows your thoughts before you think them. So, bottom line, you don't believe in God or you believe in a limited God, NOT the all-powerul, all-knowing true God. You were told to read the verses and report back.

MaxInDHouse:
Obviously you don't know what next to say after reading what God said about Himself.
So if you don't believe God's own utterances i'm sorry there's no way i can help you!🙂

So it is settled, you believe in a limited God, NOT in the true all-knowing God that knows your thoughts before you think them, and knows a child will be born in a manger thousands of years before it happens!
Doesn't that make you an atheist of sorts?

QuinQ:
Then who said what you wrote in the screenshot below?
Whether you go out in the rain or not is entirely dependent on the type of brain you were given and your past experiences with rain (some of which you may no longer even consciously remember - example, there could be a childhood trauma you had long since forgotten).
Same with AI, whether it decides to go out in the rain is dependent on the type of "brain" it was given and it's past experiences with rain!/quote]

Do you now see how incoherent you have spoken?

"who said what you wrote in the screenshot below?
Whether you go out in the rain or not is entirely dependent on the type of brain, you were given, then you compare a human with a software?

You are even now making a comparison between a brain and a software, yet you have since been arguing comparing a whole living human with a software, the same thing produced by the same human you equate it to and you think you are within normal mental boundaries?

And this is on top of incoherent dissociation you have just displayed up.

[quote author=QuinQ post=137647684]But why can't people like you just tell TRUTH?! Tell me how there is [b]freewill when someone can fortell 100's [/b]of years in advance that a baby will be born in a manger? ...!

Does freewill and foretell go together especially as you already know the meaning of freewill and foretell means to predict the future?

Maybe you need to take your you know what for you to return to normality

Dtruthspeaker:
.

Our man has forgotten how to make his posts readable because he KNOWS he has lost the argument!😅
Do you know AI drives cars through ANY kind of complex traffic and has far fewer accidents than humans, and keeps getting better everyday till there'd be zero accidents? My friend AI has what you describe as "freewill", even better!

God is not in the business of predicting. He KNOWS what will happen not what may happen.
Even if you repent to avoid an outcome, he knew in advance you'd repent.

So you LOST the argument. Henceforth you won't go around saying man has freewill (from human perspective) unless you're ready to say that AI also has freewill.
Also, henceforth you know God knows EVERYTHING and that things are unfolding according to his plan and can't deviate from it.

Cheerios!

QuinQ:
So it is settled, you believe in a limited God, NOT in the true all-knowing God that knows your thoughts before you think them, and knows a child will be born in a manger thousands of years before it happens!
Doesn't that make you an atheist of sorts?

You people just believe in presumption instead of verifying what God said about Himself now you think it's God's fault when Adam disobeyed.
Ọmọ there is freewill that's the reason why God has to verify the report He heard about Sodom and Gomorrah {Genesis 18:20-21} and wait until Abraham proved his faithfulness! Genesis 22:12

MaxInDHouse:
You people just believe in presumption instead of verifying what God said about Himself now you think it's God's fault when Adam disobeyed.
Ọmọ there is freewill that's the reason why God has to verify the report He heard about Sodom and Gomorrah {Genesis 18:20-21} and wait until Abraham proved his faithfulness! Genesis 22:12

What amazes me about people like you is that you'll take one innocuous passage in the Bible and ignore the entire rest of the Bible starring at you.
You belive all the apocalyptic prophesies in Revelation and believe everything will happen exactly as planned. Can't you use your puny brain to see that everything is interconnected and that just one person using his free will can make things not go according to God's plan??

When you are ready to learn i'm here to TEACH you i've quoted (not just citing) two verses that clearly states God doesn't know everything according to His own words so all you need to do is ask questions not just angrily throwing insults up and down.
That won't help your ministry.

Meanwhile i've proved to you that man has freewill that's the reason God said He will punish offenders which can't make any sense if those in question do not have freewill to choose between right and wrong!🙂

QuinQ:
What amazes me about people like you is that you'll take one innocuous passage in the Bible and ignore the entire rest of the Bible starring at you.
You belive all the apocalyptic prophesies in Revelation and believe everything will happen exactly as planned. Can't you use your puny brain to see that everything is interconnected and that just one person using his free will can make things not go according to God's plan??