₦airaland Forum

TV01:
In as much as I can claim Nigerian, I will readily admit that Nigerians "typically", range from fraudsters to grifters. And few - even the most eminently qualified - see beyond serving themselves. The desire is mostly for their individual self-aggrandisement. And, if that is at the expense of others, then so be it. That is why "the hustle" is evident at all levels and in all strata. It's not just "the leaders". If anything they merely epitomise it.

A true sense of the collective, of commonwealth, is almost totally absent. Whether that is predicated on the tribalism that bedevils them, the sectarianism that primes much of their responses, or these in combination with other ills, I'll refrain from speculating for now.

Any notion of pan-Africanism (and pan-blackness, if that's a thing and means essentially the same?) is dead in the water. It's not a pipe or a dream. If it was a political notion, it would mean eternal minor-party opposition. With only the merest consideration and grasp of realities on the ground, can anyone really believe that pan-Africanism is achievable?

Does it include Arabs? Hope not, they simply cannot ever see themselves as equal with black people - their racism, even the merely customary kind - is off the charts.

Okay, just black people. The ethnic Somali are pretty close to being perfectly homogenous, but are so clannish, they seem to have been at war forever. And any government has to be along clan lines, not principles, not policy. They even "clanned" themselves out of the recent Minnesota mayoral election. No to mention they look down - to the point of despising - on the Bantu Somali who occupy the same space, speak the same language and have the same culture.

Back to Nigeria. The ethnic Fula are keen to eradicate or enslave every other tribe in pursuit of their ethno-religious-supremacist dream. A vast swathe of Nigerians with the wherewithal would rather be in freezing Siberia, the most racist and far-right Western nation or even China, where you can be treated like vermin.

Like islam is best for muslims outside islamic majority\dominated countries, pan-africanism would probably work best elsewhere. Or, in a very lurid imagination, that realises the wretchedness of its position but seeks some relief in an unattainable fantasy. This literally allows you to boast, be judgemental and even supremacist in your wretchedness, but nothing will ever change.

However, I have one small quibble with the SA specific rebuttal to pan-africanism. Pray tell, what antecedents do the native south-Africans have the suggests they would have built modern day liberal democratic infrastructure before the advent of Europeans? How are the Bantus in the south in any way different from the Cushites on the horn, or those in the West or Central regions.

What, in the inherent make-up of black SA before the advent of white SA suggest they could natively give rise to those institutions, or the governance and the processes required? Something none of the other African tribes\nations have been able to achieve - individually or collectively.

Is there anything you can point to, if only nascent or embryonic, prior to the arrival of white SA, that suggests these structures would have arisen without white SA. Or alternatively, anything within the antecedents of the white SA that suggests wherever they rocked up, those infrastructures would not have followed - like night follows day - with or without black SA?

You whole-chestedly claim "joint enterprise" in what are clearly the artefacts of a colonialist\apartheid regime. Albeit, a regime with the make-up to build those systems. To be clear, I do not see anything that suggests the SA of recent decades was ever a partnership in the building. I stand to be corrected - if you can evidence otherwise.

Having said that you get 2 shots. You see Nigeria (and I'd guess other African countries post-colonialism), also had these same artefacts in place. From functioning railways stations (I've seen tickets) to working bureaucracies and administrative frameworks. But as inherency took a hold - nepotism, tribalism, sectarianism, clannishness, mediocrity, malfeasance and wholesale corruption - the frameworks, the structures and the governance were all degraded. And now, we are where we are.

Two shots I said, because all that has to be done to obviate the ask to evidence the joint-enterprise (and shut me up ), and gainsay all the vitriol around black SA being xenophobic, lazy, servile etc., is too maintain those artefacts - at the least.

In a simplistic way, it can be seen as SA simply coming to the end of colonialism\apartheid later, so having the artefacts for that much longer.
I'll be honest, based on what has gone before and currently persists with SA' near neighbours, I wouldn't stake my hard-earned cash on it. But I sincerely wish SA all the best.


TV

I went through your post again and I see where this is coming from. It’s the usual African self-degradation: the idea that black people cannot manage themselves properly.

But this is not about race, genetics, or moral superiority .

Black South Africans are not genetically, morally, or culturally better than other Africans. We are simply a product of a very different history and set of lived experiences.

Across the continent, black societies were pulled out of their own systems and forced into colonial ones they did not create or fully understand. In many places, people were prevented from developing their own institutions, yet were also never fully integrated into the new ones. Independence arrived with states that existed on paper but not in daily life.

South Africa was different because the system was intense and unavoidable. Apartheid forced black people into constant contact with institutions....cities, factories, laws, unions, courts, and the state itself. It was violent and oppressive, but it created familiarity. The system had to be understood in order to survive it.

Black South Africans, like Black Americans, learned how these systems work simply through proximity and repetition.

That is why our criticism sounds different. It comes from experience, not arrogance. We know what institutions look like when they function, and we also know how dangerous they are when they collapse.

So we don’t romanticize ideas. We are suspicious of slogans without structure. We expect clarity, accountability, and clear goals....because we have lived under systems powerful enough to destroy lives, and structured enough to deliver results.

Black South Africans are not trying to assert themselves as “special” or superior Black people. Our skepticism toward Pan-Africanism comes from a different place. We are critical because many Pan-African narratives dismiss, ridicule, or attempt to erase the institutional knowledge, governance experience, and intellectual traditions that Black South Africans have built over time. Too often, it asks us to abandon hard-won systems and standards and conform to a post-colonial mediocrity simply because we are Black. That is not unity......it is regression.

The difference is not who we are.
It is what we have lived through

Evilthoughts:
😂😂 Madam, please calm down.

All this long grammar just to say “I’m scared to lose comfort.”
Simple English: you like rules because without them you don’t know what to do.

You keep shouting “institutions, institutions” like it’s holy water. If light goes off small, it’s panic all over your country . If system shakes, your violent men and women are disturbing the streets and calm with cries that the country is destroyed . Weak and fragile beings. We wake up, adjust, and move on. No tears.

You say we export people like it’s an insult. Madam, people are the asset. Nigerians are the engine. Drop us anywhere, economy starts breathing. Even your strong system enjoys Nigerian sweat, but let’s ignore that 😅.

You talk about chaos like it’s a curse. We eat chaos for breakfast. We don’t wait for perfect road; we create path with our legs. That’s why we survive anywhere.

This “anchor” talk is funny 😂. Anchor is for people afraid to move. We don’t tie ourselves to one place because the whole world is open. That’s freedom, not running.

Pan-Africanism annoys you because you’re comfortable with government free money. When you’re comfy and lazy, unity feels dangerous. When you're a survivor, speed becomes intelligence.

You write long essays because you need permission before action. Nigerians act first, explain later sometimes never . Results don’t need footnotes.You protect systems.
We dominate environments.You stay.We move.You analyze.We adapt.

Relax and enjoy the show 😁😁

Now that I’m bored, let me entertain myself with you

Adapting to chaos isn’t power if chaos never ends .

Surviving once is impressive; building something that lasts is power.

Moving fast doesn’t matter if you don’t own the system you move in.

Calling instability “freedom” doesn’t make it less expensive...I get it, it’s just a coping mechanism, or else you’d lose your mind .

Sending people out isn’t strength when the value grows somewhere else.

Being resilient every day isn’t a flex .... it’s a warning sign .

We’re not slow or scared.
We’re deliberate, because we plan for what stays, not what escapes.

Obrigardo:
Chai, look how this man who has daughters have turned to pedo protector

Na wa ooo

I go report you to trump, last warning

My theory for today if Trump had not defeated Hillary in 2016

1. ISIS would still be occupying large swaths of Iraq and Syria .Assad would still be the President.

2. Hillary would have also won 2020.

3. COVID-19 would never have happened.

4. Russia would not have invaded.

JaceBlaze:
He started his sentence by saying "you people think too much" ,now that right there just gives full scope of why things are falling apart

Well, thinking about things like national stability, structure, or social welfare for everyone? Nah, that’s not his lane🤞. If it ain't about the newest yahoo scheme, how to dodge border cops, or how long you can stay locked up for stuff.... like drug trafficking maybe 😅... why should he even bother thinking about anything ? You’re putting too much pressure on the boy. Dude’s too busy trying to outsmart the system to care about improving it.

basilico:
7
I have read the transcripts and summaries in the case against Ghislaine. Nowhere was Trump impuned to have participated in those heinous crimes. Not a single victim.
So I'm not just shooting mouth. Epstein is a Democrat's problem. He was probably the brains behind the Clinton foundation, again as it's founder membership team. His skill was in hiding, moving and laundering money's.,
Your hero who's finally supposed to take the bike Trump down was a pervert.

,,,she performed the massage naked. At the conclusion of this massage, Epstein paid
$200 for the massage. He explained, I
know you are not comfortable put I will pay
you if you bring some girls. He told her the
younger the better. Redacted stated she once tried
to bring a 23 year old to Epstein and he
stated the female was too old

so you want to swear on your life that there isnt any trace of Trump in the Epstein document? Are you ready to do that. That if those redacted documents are unlocked we wont see the finger prints of Trump in it?

Mr defender... are you ready to stake everything you have for a vile human being?

I am here waiting with my reminder stick to hit the heads of every person In this forum who has staunchly stood behind Trump. And I would declare you folks vile for knowingly supporting a vile debauched individual.

Evilthoughts:
😂😂 Madam, please calm down.

All this long grammar just to say “I’m scared to lose comfort.”
Simple English: you like rules because without them you don’t know what to do.

You keep shouting “institutions, institutions” like it’s holy water. If light goes off small, it’s panic all over your country . If system shakes, your violent men and women are disturbing the streets and calm with cries that the country is destroyed . Weak and fragile beings. We wake up, adjust, and move on. No tears.

You say we export people like it’s an insult. Madam, people are the asset. Nigerians are the engine. Drop us anywhere, economy starts breathing. Even your strong system enjoys Nigerian sweat, but let’s ignore that 😅.

You talk about chaos like it’s a curse. We eat chaos for breakfast. We don’t wait for perfect road; we create path with our legs. That’s why we survive anywhere.

This “anchor” talk is funny 😂. Anchor is for people afraid to move. We don’t tie ourselves to one place because the whole world is open. That’s freedom, not running.

Pan-Africanism annoys you because you’re comfortable with government free money. When you’re comfy and lazy, unity feels dangerous. When you're a survivor, speed becomes intelligence.

You write long essays because you need permission before action. Nigerians act first, explain later sometimes never . Results don’t need footnotes.You protect systems.
We dominate environments.You stay.We move.You analyze.We adapt.

Relax and enjoy the show 😁😁

So.. how’s that whole Trump 'savior' thing working out for you? 🤔 You remember when you were asking for him to invade, thinking he'd swoop in and save the day? Well, funny thing—Trump's come through, alright. He’s slapped a partial visa ban on all Nig.erians, not just the Northerners and Muslims, but ALL of you. 😅

And I bet the ones feeling the most heat are the very Christians you thought he was gonna rescue. You see, what did I tell you months ago? Trump wasn’t coming to save anybody, he was just looking out for his own agenda. Bet you didn’t think the 'savior' would end up blocking you, huh? 🤦‍♂️

Stolen this is for you too

My predictions about the white savior came from the very lived experiences that make us reject your Pan Africanism. You're just too naive ,desperate and blind to reality .

Lionessza6:
So.. how’s that whole Trump 'savior' thing working out for you? 🤔 You remember when you were asking for him to invade, thinking he'd swoop in and save the day? Well, funny thing—Trump's come through, alright. He’s slapped a partial visa ban on all Nig.erians, not just the Northerners and Muslims, but ALL of you. 😅

And I bet the ones feeling the most heat are the very Christians you thought he was gonna rescue. You see, what did I tell you months ago? Trump wasn’t coming to save anybody, he was just looking out for his own agenda. Bet you didn’t think the 'savior' would end up blocking you, huh? 🤦‍♂️

Stolen this is for you too

My predictions about the white savior came from the very lived experiences that make us reject your Pan Africanism. You're just too naive ,desperate and blind to reality .

TRUMP IS NOT EVEN 1 YEAR IN OFFICE YET.


LET US WAIT UNTIL 2026, AND FOLLOW EVENTS CLOSELY.


I CANNOT DRAW ANY CONCLUSION NOW ON HIM.


AS FOR PAN-AFRICANISM, AS AN AFRICAN THAT IS ALL U CAN BE TO BE A GOOD AFRICA

FROM MY STAND POINT, ATTACK ON VENEZUELA WOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE.



SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE DEPORTING THEM FROM YOUR COUNTRY AND IMPOSING VISA BAN ON THEM, THEN U GO TO TAKE THEIR RESOURCES MAKING THINGS UNBEARBLE IN THEIR COUNTRY.



IT IS GROSS WICKEDNESS THAT I CAN NEVER SUPPORT.



U HAVE RIGHT TO DEPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BUT BE PREPARED TO FORGET THE BENEFITS U GET FROM THEIR COUNTRY.

H<

bayelsaowei:
so you want to swear on your life that there isnt any trace of Trump in the Epstein document? Are you ready to do that. That if those redacted documents are unlocked we wont see the finger prints of Trump in it?

Mr defender... are you ready to stake everything you have for a vile human being?

I am here waiting with my reminder stick to hit the heads of every person In this forum who has staunchly stood behind Trump. And I would declare you folks vile for knowingly supporting a vile debauched individual.

I don't know how you reason. How would he not be mentioned when the FBI has tried every way to get him . When Maureen Comey was the lead prosecutor in Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell cases.
The depositions I've seen have investigators specifically question them about Trump. The ones who interacted with him said he never did anything wrong. Including at a dinner in Epstein home at least once.
Maureen Comey is James Comey daughter, the Hitlery lackey both with an axe to grind against Trump who has repeated in at least two occasions about Bill Clinton being in trouble over Epstein

Yes Trump is mentioned. I'll get a verbatim from Grok once I settle down.

I HAVE LONG EMPHASISED INTERDEPNDENT GLOBAL ECONOMY.


A MIGRANT ECONOMY, THAT HAS SEEN PROJECTED RISE IN AIR TRAVEL, MARITIME CARGO ETC.


AMERICA CANNOT BE AN ISOLATIONIST STATE AND YET OCCUPY EVERY CORNER OF THE WORLD WITH MILITARY BASE.



YOU ARE EITHER A GLOBAL SUPER POWER OR A ISOLATIONIS TSTA LIKE NORTH KOREA, CANT BE BOTH.



YES IMMIGRATION NEEDS TO BE CONTROLED BUT DONT OVER FLOG THE ISSUE AND FEED INTO BIGOTRY AND HATE.


WE AS HUMANS HAVE A HATE AND BIGOTRY PROBLEM ALREADY.


DO IT WITH SENSE BECAUSE AS OF TODAY, WE ARE INTEGRATED DIGITALLY THROUGH TECHNOLOGY, AIR TRAVEL AND SHIPPING.


ISOLATION TIME IS GONE, TO SEEK ISOLATION IS TO TRAVEL BACK IN TIME TO THE 1ST CENTURY.


EVEN THEN CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLE TRAVEL FROM NATION TO NATION.

Stolen:
TRUMP IS NOT EVEN 1 YEAR IN OFFICE YET.


LET US WAIT UNTIL 2026, AND FOLLOW EVENTS CLOSELY.


I CANNOT DRAW ANY CONCLUSION NOW ON HIM.


AS FOR PAN-AFRICANISM, AS AN AFRICAN THAT IS ALL U CAN BE TO BE A GOOD AFRICA

Your tone seems different from the last time we talked on this forum, when you were expressing hope that Trump would somehow separate Muslims from Christians, or treat Christians better. 😅 But hey, I understand where you're coming from. To Trump, you’re all Nigerians, and if he wants anything from Nigeria, you’re all dispensable.....that’s what I was warning about. Clearly, you don’t fully understand the deep impact of "divide and conquer" and how it can be used to manipulate situations like this. This is what makes us fear getting into unions with the rest of the continent, most are just too dependent which makes people easier to control. Why in the world would so called Pan-Africanists beg a man like Trump for any type of assistance 🤔

Stolen:
FROM MY STAND POINT, ATTACK ON VENEZUELA WOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE.



SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE DEPORTING THEM FROM YOUR COUNTRY AND IMPOSING VISA BAN ON THEM, THEN U GO TO TAKE THEIR RESOURCES MAKING THINGS UNBEARBLE IN THEIR COUNTRY.






IT IS GROSS WICKEDNESS THAT I CAN NEVER SUPPORT.



U HAVE RIGHT TO DEPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BUT BE PREPARED TO FORGET THE BENEFITS U GET FROM THEIR COUNTRY.

What happened to you Stolen Trump junior 🤔

These maga people are truly sick.

Stolen:
TRUMP IS NOT EVEN 1 YEAR IN OFFICE YET.


LET US WAIT UNTIL 2026, AND FOLLOW EVENTS CLOSELY.


I CANNOT DRAW ANY CONCLUSION NOW ON HIM.


AS FOR PAN-AFRICANISM, AS AN AFRICAN THAT IS ALL U CAN BE TO BE A GOOD AFRICA

As long as Pan-Africanism isn’t reformed, those from stable or semi-functional countries will keep turning their backs on it. Not out of arrogance, but self-preservation.

The struggle today isn’t colonialism...it’s governance, accountability, and building systems that last. An ideology that demands emotional unity while ignoring responsibility becomes oppressive, not liberating.

Solidarity without standards rewards failure and penalizes progress. Until Pan-Africanism adapts to current realities, it will remain more useful to dysfunction than to development.

bayelsaowei:
so you want to swear on your life that there isnt any trace of Trump in the Epstein document? Are you ready to do that. That if those redacted documents are unlocked we wont see the finger prints of Trump in it?

Mr defender... are you ready to stake everything you have for a vile human being?

I am here waiting with my reminder stick to hit the heads of every person In this forum who has staunchly stood behind Trump. And I would declare you folks vile for knowingly supporting a vile debauched individual.

If you are planning on bringing up a supposedly case filed against Trump and Epstein by a 13 year old Katie Johnson , I had posted about it here in July 2024.

https://www.nairaland.com/4508641/american-politics-thread-trump-47th/4217#130786960

This was a 2016 smear most likely by the Clintons. Remember when she was being investigated over her emails she conjured up the Russia collusion. The allegations seem something the witch would be behind,Just like the Obama birth certificate allegation she created during the 2008 democrat primaries. She's pure evil. "We came, we saw, he died" She said that after Gadaffi was executed by jihadists

Evilthoughts:
😂😂 Madam, please calm down.

All this long grammar just to say “I’m scared to lose comfort.”
Simple English: you like rules because without them you don’t know what to do.

You keep shouting “institutions, institutions” like it’s holy water. If light goes off small, it’s panic all over your country . If system shakes, your violent men and women are disturbing the streets and calm with cries that the country is destroyed . Weak and fragile beings. We wake up, adjust, and move on. No tears.

You say we export people like it’s an insult. Madam, people are the asset. Nigerians are the engine. Drop us anywhere, economy starts breathing. Even your strong system enjoys Nigerian sweat, but let’s ignore that 😅.

You talk about chaos like it’s a curse. We eat chaos for breakfast. We don’t wait for perfect road; we create path with our legs. That’s why we survive anywhere.

This “anchor” talk is funny 😂. Anchor is for people afraid to move. We don’t tie ourselves to one place because the whole world is open. That’s freedom, not running.

Pan-Africanism annoys you because you’re comfortable with government free money. When you’re comfy and lazy, unity feels dangerous. When you're a survivor, speed becomes intelligence.

You write long essays because you need permission before action. Nigerians act first, explain later sometimes never . Results don’t need footnotes.You protect systems.
We dominate environments.You stay.We move.You analyze.We adapt.

Relax and enjoy the show 😁😁

You are trying so hard to deliver points but horribly fall short every time .Jut admit that you don't get it and save yourself from further embarassments because..wow

Lionessza6:
Well, thinking about things like national stability, structure, or social welfare for everyone? Nah, that’s not his lane🤞. If it ain't about the newest yahoo scheme, how to dodge border cops, or how long you can stay locked up for stuff.... like drug trafficking maybe 😅... why should he even bother thinking about anything ? You’re putting too much pressure on the boy. Dude’s too busy trying to outsmart the system to care about improving it.

What do we expect really? The people who are too critical about Black South Africans and how we live our lives are from a country that was born in 1960 and whose name was given to by a white woman lol.We have had centuries to learn and adapt to everything that was put infront of us and they are pretty new to this and they are failing to take even rudimentary lessons...perhaps,like you said,we are putting too much pressure on these people.

If you’re dancing around candid exposure of whoever is involved, you’re a sneaky perr vert too.

We don't care if Clinton is implicated if he's guilty, lock him up. What's striking is the silence and lack of accountability surrounding Trump. MAGA keeps asking why the focus is on him. The answer is obvious: he is the sitting president. And just like Clinton (or anyone else) if Trump is guilty, he belongs behind bars. No exemptions. No double standards.

And…this is the difference between MAGAts and the rest of the world. They'll go to bat defending their guy, explaining what he really meant/said/did, always trying to cast him as misunderstood and the persecuted victim. Meanwhile the normal world says hey, I don't care who it is, if they committed a crime or did wrong, they should be held accountable for their actions.

Chile elections. The conservative won 58% in the runoff against the Communist Party candidate of Chile.
Yes Chile has a Communist party that often unites with far left and socialist parties

In Honduras it's taken 21 days so far to count around 3 6 million votes. The Trump preferred candidate is still leading , wonder whether liberals will count the votes until their candidate wins . A bank teller can hand count all those in an hour.


States and countries where votes have been counted for days after elections. List is disproportionately liberal/ leftist.

Florida 2000 Presidential: Prolonged recounts and Supreme Court intervention halted hand counts after 36 days, certifying George W. Bush's narrow win over Al Gore by 537 votes.
Iowa 2nd District 2020 House: Democrat Rita Hart lost to Republican Mariannette Miller-Meeks by 6 votes after recounts and a 3-month congressional contest over disputed ballots.
New York 22nd District 2020 House: Democrat Anthony Brindisi conceded to Republican Claudia Tenney after months of court-ordered recounts, ending with a 109-vote margin.
Alaska House District 1 2018: Democrat Kathryn Dodge lost by 1 vote to Republican Bart LeBon after weeks of recount and state Supreme Court review.
New York 1st District 1914 House: Democrat Lathrop Brown lost by 10 votes to Republican Frederick Hicks after over 13 months of court and House disputes.
Mexico 2006 Presidential: Leftist Andrés Manuel López Obrador lost narrowly to conservative Felipe Calderón after 2 months of partial recounts and massive protests over alleged fraud.
Kenya 2007 Presidential: Left-leaning Raila Odinga lost to Mwai Kibaki amid delayed results and fraud claims, sparking violence; resolved months later with power-sharing.
Zimbabwe 2008 Presidential: Opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai withdrew from runoff after a month-long result delay and violence, handing victory to Robert Mugabe.
Iran 2009 Presidential: Reformist Mir-Hossein Mousavi lost to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad amid immediate rigging allegations, leading to months of protests and ongoing suppression.
Honduras 2017 Presidential : Leftist Salvador Nasralla lost to incumbent Juan Orlando Hernández after a multi-week count interruption and irregularities, amid protests.
Honduras 2025 Presidential (ongoing): As of December 21 (21 days post-election), conservative Nasry Asfura (Trump-endorsed) holds a narrow lead; partial manual recount underway with fraud claims from rivals.

Benalvino3.
A take on rob Reiner. This guy must've been working for the CIA or the Intelligence COMMUNITY.

https://hotair.com/larry-elder/2025/12/20/what-rob-reiner-said-about-and-did-to-donald-trump-n3810103

In 2017 he fired off a committee to investigate Russia (CIR) .Partnered with Janes Clapper, Mike Morell, Matt Hayden and John Brennan... These are deep state intelligence spooks the ,creme de la creme during Obama era.
After spying on Trump , the CIA and FBI needed to make sure their actions would be never be exposed So Russiagate , Mueller investigation sham impeachments,COVID , etc were initiated to either hamper Trump or remove him.
He was their Hollywood mouthpiece. Part of the IC efforts to shake down Trump.

Reiner was a dedicated democrat activist for decades there is no overt feud with Trump before he ran for the elections.
Reiner's wife, Michele Singer Reiner, was a professional photographer who shot the cover photo used on Trump's 1987 bestseller, The Art of the Deal. Reiner recalled....One account mentions Rob Reiner briefly meeting Trump in 1988 and describing him positively as "larger than life" and "charismatic," with no indication of animosity.

Only after Trump wins does Reiner suddenly go public with how he loathed Trump.
Trump shouldn't have danced on his grave in public though.

1,2,3… it’s a niece of a cousin 5 times removed 🙄. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Lionessza6:


Your tone seems different from the last time we talked on this forum, when you were expressing hope that Trump would somehow separate Muslims from Christians, or treat Christians better. 😅 But hey, I understand where you're coming from. To Trump, you’re all Nigerians, and if he wants anything from Nigeria, you’re all dispensable.....that’s what I was warning about. Clearly, you don’t fully understand the deep impact of "divide and conquer" and how it can be used to manipulate situations like this. This is what makes us fear getting into unions with the rest of the continent, most are just too dependent which makes people easier to control. Why in the world would so called Pan-Africanists beg a man like Trump for any type of assistance 🤔

THE ANIMAL FARM ISD RAN AND SUSTAINED BY MEN LIKE TRUMP.


THE MINUTE HE SIGNALED INTENTION TO ENTER NIGERIA, BRITAIN SENT MEMBERS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY TO NIGERIA AND AMERICA.


ALOT OF RUNNING AROUND HAPPENED OFF CAMERA THAT U ARE UNAWARE TOOK PLACE.


THEY HAVE BEEN RUNNING AROUND TO STOP HIM, AND CONTINUE THE ANIUMAL FARM THEY CREATED.

AL;L THOSZE INNOCENT CHILDREN DONT MATTER TO THEM, ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE RESOURCES THEY ARE SHARING.



https://www.arise.tv/prince-edward-visits-president-tinubu-ahead-of-global-youth-award-activities-in-lagos/

Although It's not something I often do, I did not respond to your initial response, as tbh - and it may have just been me - I found it garbled and not actually addressing the points I made...

Lionessza6:
I went through your post again and I see where this is coming from. It’s the usual African self-degradation: the idea that black people cannot manage themselves properly.

But this is not about race, genetics, or moral superiority .

Black South Africans are not genetically, morally, or culturally better than other Africans. We are simply a product of a very different history and set of lived experiences.

... which non of the above straw men do either. And, for what it's worth, I'm a devout Christian, and my worldview doesn't parse issues through positions of racial or genetic difference.

Lionessza6:
Across the continent, black societies were pulled out of their own systems and forced into colonial ones they did not create or fully understand. In many places, people were prevented from developing their own institutions, yet were also never fully integrated into the new ones. Independence arrived with states that existed on paper but not in daily life.

Which, all but makes my point, and speaks directly to the questions I asked - based on your claim that the infrastructure, institutions and governance of SA was a joint enterprise between the natives and the colonizers. I asked as follows;

1. Evidence to this "joint-enterprise" claim. And,
2. How a native majority government would be able to maintain and\or improve the system - given majority experience across wider Africa (which would be easily enough done if indeed it was a joint enterprise).

There may well have been difference between garden variety colonialism and brutally enforced apartheid, but the after effects to my mind, aren't to much different. Nor, as I see it are the newly enfranchised in either situation. If anything, and on the whole, I'd say the after-effects of apartheid are worse.

Lionessza6:
South Africa was different because the system was intense and unavoidable. Apartheid forced black people into constant contact with institutions....cities, factories, laws, unions, courts, and the state itself. It was violent and oppressive, but it created familiarity. The system had to be understood in order to survive it.

It could equally be argued that apartheid afforded less accessibility and inculcated lower level values in it's victims. However, I'm not wont to look backwards here.

Lionessza6:
Black South Africans, like Black Americans, learned how these systems work simply through proximity and repetition.

At this point and for black Americans at least, that doesn't align with how well they are flourishing in comparison to more recently arrived black people - Nigerians again!

Lionessza6:
That is why our criticism sounds different. It comes from experience, not arrogance. We know what institutions look like when they function, and we also know how dangerous they are when they collapse.

So we don’t romanticize ideas. We are suspicious of slogans without structure. We expect clarity, accountability, and clear goals....because we have lived under systems powerful enough to destroy lives, and structured enough to deliver results.

Black South Africans are not trying to assert themselves as “special” or superior Black people. Our skepticism toward Pan-Africanism comes from a different place. We are critical because many Pan-African narratives dismiss, ridicule, or attempt to erase the institutional knowledge, governance experience, and intellectual traditions that Black South Africans have built over time. Too often, it asks us to abandon hard-won systems and standards and conform to a post-colonial mediocrity simply because we are Black. That is not unity......it is regression.

The difference is not who we are.
It is what we have lived through

Non of the above addresses what I questioned, wrote or believe. Like I mentioned, I don't know enough native South Africans to form any such conclusions.


TV

This ah IjeBos, bayelsaowei they ah brainwashed ye
https://fxtwitter.com/DefiantLs/status/2002773556326019181

bayelsaowei:
so you want to swear on your life that there isnt any trace of Trump in the Epstein document? Are you ready to do that. That if those redacted documents are unlocked we wont see the finger prints of Trump in it?

Mr defender... are you ready to stake everything you have for a vile human being?

I am here waiting with my reminder stick to hit the heads of every person In this forum who has staunchly stood behind Trump. And I would declare you folks vile for knowingly supporting a vile debauched individual.

Remove your TDS and think about it. If there was anything indicting Trump do you think the Biden administration that tried everything to nail Trump wont have released it?

Nastymods:
This ah IjeBos, bayelsaowei they ah brainwashed ye
https://fxtwitter.com/DefiantLs/status/2002773556326019181

The left is a party of insanity

TV01:
Although It's not something I often do, I did not respond to your initial response, as tbh - and it may have just been me - I found it garbled and not actually addressing the points I made...

... which non of the above straw men do either. And, for what it's worth, I'm a devout Christian, and my worldview doesn't parse issues through positions of racial or genetic difference.

Which, all but makes my point, and speaks directly to the questions I asked - based on your claim that the infrastructure, institutions and governance of SA was a joint enterprise between the natives and the colonizers. I asked as follows;

1. Evidence to this "joint-enterprise" claim. And,
2. How a native majority government would be able to maintain and\or improve the system - given majority experience across wider Africa (which would be easily enough done if indeed it was a joint enterprise).

There may well have been difference between garden variety colonialism and brutally enforced apartheid, but the after effects to my mind, aren't to much different. Nor, as I see it are the newly enfranchised in either situation. If anything, and on the whole, I'd say the after-effects of apartheid are worse.

It could equally be argued that apartheid afforded less accessibility and inculcated lower level values in it's victims. However, I'm not wont to look backwards here.

At this point and for black Americans at least, that doesn't align with how well they are flourishing in comparison to more recently arrived black people - Nigerians again!

Non of the above addresses what I questioned, wrote or believe. Like I mentioned, I don't know enough native South Africans to form any such conclusions.


TV

My Maker knows I really tried 🙆‍♀️😅. At this point, maybe you could just give me your opinion....it might help me finally get the point.

legitnow1:
THE ANIMAL FARM ISD RAN AND SUSTAINED BY MEN LIKE TRUMP.


THE MINUTE HE SIGNALED INTENTION TO ENTER NIGERIA, BRITAIN SENT MEMBERS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY TO NIGERIA AND AMERICA.


ALOT OF RUNNING AROUND HAPPENED OFF CAMERA THAT U ARE UNAWARE TOOK PLACE.


THEY HAVE BEEN RUNNING AROUND TO STOP HIM, AND CONTINUE THE ANIUMAL FARM THEY CREATED.

AL;L THOSZE INNOCENT CHILDREN DONT MATTER TO THEM, ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE RESOURCES THEY ARE SHARING.



https://www.arise.tv/prince-edward-visits-president-tinubu-ahead-of-global-youth-award-activities-in-lagos/

Hmmm, I was under the impression that Nigeria was an independent country, free from Western influence or intimidation. I thought neocolonialism was something that only affected the “non‑giant” countries.

Because what you’re describing sounds more like two giants using Nigeria as their battleground, while the locals cheer on different sides. Maybe I’m not understanding it completely as you said.

My point is still valid: Pan-Africanists begging someone like Trump looks more like self-doubt or self-harm than strategy, because it reinforces reliance on outsiders rather than building strength within the continent( what you guys preach everyday)🙆‍♀️😅

raumdeuter:
Remove your TDS and think about it. If there was anything indicting Trump do you think the Biden administration that tried everything to nail Trump wont have released it?

Biden didn't need to investigate Trump from every angle if he had just had one victim that Trump had abused.
He had Alvin Bragg, Letitia James, Jack Smith , Fani Willis , Jan 6 committee, Congress etc all going after Trump . He didn't need any of them if he could tie Trump to a single Epstein crime.
Logic is difficult to some people.

benalvino3:
exactly.
even if a woman comes out as the front runner, the story will change.
Anything from the right is next to the devil, worse than the one before. see what they did to clearance Thomas and this pattern started in the 90s
ch?v=ZURHD5BU1o8
https://www.youtubh?v=4oPnd911FcM
they repeated it with Brett cT0yrMhQV2s

You can see Biden at the meat of the issue with Kavanaugh. the woman who accused him of sexual harassment had to leave the country for Russia. the media that showed these other women accusing people on the right in good light, "believe all women" etc. were all after her and she had to leave the country.

for bayelsaowei, this is not vile, it is okay, they don't say mean things to you or fight on twitter, but they will use other means to make sure you are thrown under a bus.
Ben Carson "Marriage is between and man and a woman" something bayelsaowei will agree with is what turned Carson to a villain if he is not one already for being a republican.

Biden who is not a vile human being admin were doing this https://www.youtnws

If you searched properly you will see where the left were calling McCain a racist
Mitt Romney was called Hitler
These 2 men are what the left now called exemplary republicans. The racists and Hitlers of a few years ago

DeSantis was said to be worse than Trump
Larry Elder a black man was called a white supremacist
If Rubio, Vance contests then you will suddenly start hearing how he is racist fascist Hitler and worse than Trump
The Republicans they love are those that lose

Name calling and tags are part of the Democrats strategy for elections. Not like they care about decency. Check how many of them voted for the man Virginia candidate who advocated for his opponents family to die

These are all in their media propaganda to brainwash their followers