₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
Because you are beginning to insult my ability to read and understand, again, I used an unbiased AI to find who is speaking in those verses. The AI was not to explain any theology. Its only task was to explain the grammar and show who is speaking. Let's see how it goes.

Here is the prompt I used
Explain Zechariah 2:8-11, showing who is speaking in an unbiased way. Please do this independently, and do not refer to the works of other scholars or theologians. Just look at the context and grammar.

The Answer

To explain the speaker in Zechariah 2:8–11 independently, we must look at the "Person" (1st, 2nd, or 3rd) used in the Hebrew grammar. The complexity arises because the text shifts between someone who is sent and the One who sends, yet both appear to speak as the Divine.

Here is a breakdown based strictly on the linguistic flow of the passage.

1. The Divine Identity of the Speaker
In verse 8, the passage begins with:

"For thus said YHWH of Hosts..."

This establishes that the words following are the direct speech of the Deity. However, immediately after this introduction, the speaker says:

"...After the glory He [YHWH] has sent me to the nations..."

The Observation: The speaker is someone sent by YHWH, yet the introduction identifies the speech as YHWH’s. This creates a "double-identity" where the messenger speaks with the authority and first-person voice of the sender.

2. The Shift in Power (Verse 9)
In verse 9, the speaker says:

"For behold, I [the speaker] am waving my hand over them... and you shall know that YHWH of Hosts has sent me."

The Observation: The speaker claims to perform the action (waving the hand to judge nations), which is a power typically reserved for the Divine in Hebrew literature. Yet, the speaker concludes by saying this action will prove that he was "sent" by someone else (YHWH of Hosts).

3. The Indwelling Presence (Verses 10–11)
This is where the grammar becomes most distinct. The speaker says:

"I am coming and I will dwell in your midst—an utterance of YHWH."

And continues in Verse 11:

"And many nations shall join themselves to YHWH... and they shall be to Me for a people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you shall know that YHWH of Hosts has sent me to you."

The Grammatical Tension:

Identity A: The speaker says "They shall be to Me for a people." In the Hebrew Bible, only YHWH claims a people as His own.

Identity B: The same "Me" says "YHWH of Hosts has sent me."

It seems I am not the one who has a problem understanding grammar

That was Gemini, now let's try ChatGPT. Remember, we are looking for the grammatical explanation, not your theology or mine.

Alright—let’s do this slowly, cleanly, and strictly from the text itself.
No outside theology. No scholars. No later interpretations.
Just context + grammar.

1️⃣ Immediate context (Zechariah 2)

Zechariah 2 is a vision scene:

Zechariah sees a man with a measuring line (v.1–5)

Jerusalem is promised protection and divine presence

From v.6 onward, speech begins and continues through v.13

So 2:8–11 is spoken speech, not narration.

2️⃣ Key question we must answer

Who is speaking in each part of 2:8–11?

We determine this by:

Pronouns (“I,” “me,” “He”)

Speech formulas (“declares YHWH”)

Repetition and shifts

3️⃣ Verse-by-verse grammatical analysis
🔹 Zechariah 2:8

“For thus says YHWH of hosts:
After glory, He sent me to the nations who plundered you,
for the one who touches you touches the pupil of His eye.”

Observations:

“Thus says YHWH of hosts” → YHWH is the authority behind the message

But then:

“He sent me” → the speaker is not YHWH

The speaker refers to YHWH in the third person

✅ Conclusion (v.:
The speaker is someone sent by YHWH, speaking about YHWH.

🔹 Zechariah 2:9

“For behold, I am about to wave My hand over them,
and they shall become spoil for those who served them.
Then you will know that YHWH of hosts has sent me.”

Observations:

“I” and “My” → same speaker as v.8

The speaker claims divine authority and action

Yet still says: “YHWH of hosts has sent me”

✅ Conclusion (v.9):
Same speaker continues:

Acts with divine power

Yet distinguishes himself from YHWH by being sent

🔹 Zechariah 2:10

“Sing and rejoice, daughter of Zion,
for behold, I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst,
declares YHWH.”

Observations:

“I am coming”

“I will dwell in your midst”

Then explicitly: “declares YHWH”

This creates tension:

The same “I” continues speaking

But the speech is now explicitly labeled as YHWH’s declaration

Grammar alone gives us two possibilities:

The speaker is now YHWH directly

Or the speaker is speaking YHWH’s words in first person

The text does not clarify which.

✅ Conclusion (v.10):
The speaker speaks with YHWH’s voice, using YHWH’s “I”.

🔹 Zechariah 2:11

“And many nations shall join themselves to YHWH in that day,
and they shall become My people.
And I will dwell in your midst,
and you shall know that YHWH of hosts has sent me to you.”

Observations:

“They will join themselves to YHWH” → YHWH spoken of in third person

“They will be My people” → speaker uses divine “My”

“I will dwell in your midst” → same promise as v.10

“YHWH of hosts has sent me to you” → speaker again distinguishes himself from YHWH

This is the same pattern as v.8–9, returning after v.10.

✅ Conclusion (v.11):
The speaker:

Claims divine presence (“I will dwell”)

Yet says he is sent by YHWH

4️⃣ Putting it all together (strictly from grammar)

From 2:8–11, the text presents:

✔ One continuous speaker who:

Is sent by YHWH

Speaks with divine authority

Performs divine actions

Uses YHWH’s first-person voice at times

Is distinguished from YHWH at other times

The text does not switch speakers explicitly.

5️⃣ What the text DOES say (facts only)

YHWH sends someone

That someone speaks

That someone says:

“I will dwell in your midst”

“YHWH has sent me”

Nations join YHWH, not the messenger

The people will know the sender by recognizing the sent one

6️⃣ What the text DOES NOT say

It does not explain how this works

It does not identify the speaker by name

It does not resolve the tension

It does not label this as metaphor, angel, or future figure

Those explanations would be interpretation, not grammar.

7️⃣ Final neutral summary

Zechariah 2:8–11 presents a single speaker who is sent by YHWH, yet speaks with YHWH’s authority and promises YHWH’s dwelling presence. The text intentionally maintains this duality without explanation.

That conclusion comes only from:

Pronouns

Speech formulas

Contextual continuity

No theology required.


Now, let us try Grok

Zechariah 2:8–11 (Hebrew verse numbering; in many English Bibles this is Zechariah 2:12–15 due to different verse division)
Here is a plain reading based only on the Hebrew text, its grammar, and the immediate context of the chapter. I will explain who is speaking verse by verse without adding any external interpretation.
Verse 8
Hebrew: כִּי כֹה אָמַר יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת אַחַר כָּבוֹד שְׁלָחַנִי אֶל־הַגּוֹיִם הַשֹּׁלְלִים אֶתְכֶם כִּי הַנֹּגֵעַ בָּכֶם נֹגֵעַ בְּאִישׁוֹן בַּתְעֵינוֹ
Literal: For thus says YHWH of hosts: After glory he-sent-me to the nations the-plundering you, for the-one-touching in-you touches in-the-pupil-of daughter-of his-eye.
Who is speaking?
The verse opens with the standard prophetic formula “thus says YHWH of hosts” (כֹּה אָמַר יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת), which means the prophet Zechariah is delivering a message from YHWH.
Immediately after that formula, the speaker changes to first person: “he sent me” (שְׁלָחַנִי).
So the speaker of the rest of the verse is someone who has been sent by YHWH of hosts.
Verse 9
Hebrew: כִּי הִנְנִי מֵנִיף אֶת־יָדִי עֲלֵיהֶם וְהָיוּ שָׁלָל לְעַבְדֵיהֶם וִידַעְתֶּם כִּי־יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת שְׁלָחָנִי
Literal: For behold-me I-raise my-hand upon-them and-they-shall-be plunder to-their-servants and-you-shall-know that YHWH of hosts sent-me.
Who is speaking?
Still the same first-person speaker (“I will raise my hand,” “sent me”).
The speaker is describing an action he will take against the plundering nations and says the result will be that “you shall know that YHWH of hosts sent me.”
Verse 10
Hebrew: רָנִּי וְשִׂמְחִי בַּת־צִיּוֹן כִּי הִנְנִי־בָא וְשָׁכַנְתִּי בְתוֹכֵךְ נְאֻם־יְהוָה
Literal: Shout-for-joy and-rejoice daughter-of Zion for behold-me coming and-I-will-dwell in-your-midst declaration-of YHWH.
Who is speaking?
The first-person speaker continues: “behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst.”
At the end of the verse the phrase “declaration of YHWH” (נְאֻם־יְהוָה) appears, which is a closing formula that marks the end of a divine speech. So this entire statement is presented as YHWH speaking through the sent one.
Verse 11
Hebrew: וְנִלְווּ גוֹיִם רַבִּים אֶל־יְהוָה בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא וְהָיוּ לִי לְעָם וְשָׁכַנְתִּי בְתוֹכֵךְ וְיָדַעַתְּ כִּי־יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת שְׁלָחַנִי אֵלָיִךְ
Literal: And-they-shall-join nations many to YHWH in-the-day the-that and-they-shall-be to-me for-people and-I-will-dwell in-your-midst and-you-shall-know that YHWH of hosts sent-me to-you.
Who is speaking?
The first-person speaker continues: “they shall be to Me for a people,” “I will dwell in your midst,” “YHWH of hosts sent Me to you.”
Again, the repeated phrase “sent me” (שְׁלָחַנִי) shows the speaker is the one who was sent.
Summary of who is speaking (based only on grammar and context)

The chapter begins with Zechariah receiving a message from YHWH.
Starting in verse 8, a new speaker appears who says “He [YHWH] sent me.”
This sent speaker continues through verses 8–11, speaking in the first person about raising his hand, coming, dwelling in Zion, and being known as the one sent by YHWH of hosts.
The speaker refers to YHWH in the third person (“YHWH of hosts sent me”) while also speaking actions that belong to YHWH (“I will dwell in your midst,” “they shall be to Me for a people”).
The grammar keeps the identity of the speaker as “the one sent by YHWH,” and the text does not explicitly name him beyond that description.

That is what the Hebrew words and sentence structure show on their own.

Please do me a favour and never insult my understanding again.

and it never occurred to you that the me is the prophet Zachariah? who wrote those things as he got them from God
that is what baffles me....

if I write a book, and you see "me" there, won't you know i am referring to myself, the author of the book? if I was referring to someone else, I will use him or her...isn't it?
why are you not understanding??

tctrills:
Oga, no need for all this noise, just make sense of verse 11. Whose words are those? Are they Zachariah's, the angel's, or God's?
Here is the verse below, but you are free to compare it with other verses.
And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
Please analyze this verse.

you can't take verse 11 and interpret it independently, it is part of a story. you have to read it like like your reading a novel. forget the verses. it is a continuous narrative.....verse 11 is saying that on that day, nations will join Israel/ Judah and Jerusalem. YHWH will be God over all, and God will live amongst them. and when these things happen people will know that it was God that sent Zachariah to be a prophet. ....the Lord of host sent me(Zachariah) unto thee...it is Zachariah's prophecy. He is the one God sent.....
it's not rocket science n

tctrills:
Do you want me to copy and paste the entire chapter for you again? Is that your point? Because I will do it if that solves this.

I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.

2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.

3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,
Zachariah speaking of his encounter with the angel

4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
The angel speaking

5 For I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
The angel relates the word of the Lord

6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord. Still the word of the Lord

7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.

8 For thus saith the Lord of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me.

10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord.

11 And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
Still the word of the Lord relayed by the angel

12 And the Lord shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.

13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.

In Jewish tradition, Zechariah 2:1-11 (often 2:5-15 in Hebrew text) is a vision of future redemption, focusing on the expansion, protection, and divine habitation of Jerusalem. Key themes include the rebuilding of the Temple, the gathering of exiles, and the ultimate recognition of God’s sovereignty by many nations.
Visions of Restoration: The chapter contains a vision of a man measuring Jerusalem, symbolizing its future vast, un-walled, and secure growth, as it will be too full of people to be restricted by city walls.
Divine Protection: God promises to be a "wall of fire" around Jerusalem and the glory within it, promising security that transcends physical fortification.
Return from Exile: The Jewish people are called to escape from Babylon and the "land of the north," representing a call for the diaspora to return to Zion, as they were scattered by the "four winds".
Universal Recognition: The passage looks forward to a Messianic era when "many nations" will join themselves to the Lord, acknowledging Him as God and becoming part of His people, indicating a universal aspect of this future time.
The "Apple of His Eye": A key protective verse highlights that anyone harming Israel touches the "apple of His eye".
Contextual Usage:
These verses are frequently cited in discussions regarding the rebuilding of the Second Temple, the ultimate redemption, and the future glory of Jerusalem. They are often interpreted as messages of comfort and hope for a restored, secure, and spiritually centered Jewish nation to which the rest of the world will look.

j

tctrills:
Oga, that is what I have been doing all this time. I even copied and posted an entire chapter to you.
But then, one does not even need to be that intelligent to know that when a verse begins with, "For thus says YHWH of hosts," the next person that speaks should be YHWH of hosts. How hard can this be for you?

For thus saith the Lord of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

what is your argument??

sonmvayina:
and it never occurred to you that the me is the prophet Zachariah? who wrote those things as he got them from God
that is what baffles me....

if I write a book, and you see "me" there, won't you know i am referring to myself, the author of the book? if I was referring to someone else, I will use him or her...isn't it?
why are you not understanding??

So now you want us to pretend that you somehow know grammar more than Grok. Already from the AI results, it's not remotely possible for it to be Zachariah speaking. The question here is, would you ever agree that you are wrong even if the AI shows you are?

Again, I will agree that I don't understand simple English. So in my very next post, I am going to ask AI If i makes any grammatical sense for it to be Zachariah speaking.

Yes, everyone knows that Zachriah got his revelation from God, so what is your point? And you are right, He was referring, or better quoting God, the source of the message, when he said
For thus saith the Lord of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
So what's your point? We both agree that God is the source of the message, and whoever was speaking was directly quoting God's words. All AI versions made that abundantly clear.

Now you are confusing yourself with this "me" logic. Here is why
1. There is no record of Zachariah sent or going to any nation. In fact, no record that the enemies of the Jews had access to his text.
So clearly, it was not Zachariah who was the "me" that was sent.
2. The "me" said the following in verse 11. many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
So, according to you, these people will become the people of Zachariah, and he will dwell with them. Again, never happened.

sonmvayina:
In Jewish tradition, Zechariah 2:1-11 (often 2:5-15 in Hebrew text) is a vision of future redemption, focusing on the expansion, protection, and divine habitation of Jerusalem. Key themes include the rebuilding of the Temple, the gathering of exiles, and the ultimate recognition of God’s sovereignty by many nations.
Visions of Restoration: The chapter contains a vision of a man measuring Jerusalem, symbolizing its future vast, un-walled, and secure growth, as it will be too full of people to be restricted by city walls.
Divine Protection: God promises to be a "wall of fire" around Jerusalem and the glory within it, promising security that transcends physical fortification.
Return from Exile: The Jewish people are called to escape from Babylon and the "land of the north," representing a call for the diaspora to return to Zion, as they were scattered by the "four winds".
Universal Recognition: The passage looks forward to a Messianic era when "many nations" will join themselves to the Lord, acknowledging Him as God and becoming part of His people, indicating a universal aspect of this future time.
The "Apple of His Eye": A key protective verse highlights that anyone harming Israel touches the "apple of His eye".
Contextual Usage:
These verses are frequently cited in discussions regarding the rebuilding of the Second Temple, the ultimate redemption, and the future glory of Jerusalem. They are often interpreted as messages of comfort and hope for a restored, secure, and spiritually centered Jewish nation to which the rest of the world will look.

Again, I am sending you The Prompt and results from AI. To see how much contextual and grammatical sense it makes if it were Zachariah, an angel, or Jesus Christ speaking. Let's enjoy this together. I will also snap and attach a table from CHATGPT.

My prompt

Again, be completely independent of, and do not refer to the works of other scholars or theologians. Just look at the context and grammar. Use only the bible as refrence and guide. Do not be biased towards any theology.

Going back to Zechariah 2:8–11 which is more likely from the text.



1. That these were the very words of Zachariah.

2. That this was the words of an angel.

3. These are the words of Jesus Christ.

These are the specific texts you should be addressing

After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.



9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me.



10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord.



11 And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

Give reasons why it could or could not for all the above.

The Chatgpt result

Understood. I’ll do exactly what you asked:

No scholars

No theology systems

Bible-only

Context + grammar only

Evaluate the three specific options

Give reasons for and against each

I will not decide for you—only show what the text itself allows or resists.

The Text Under Examination (Zechariah 2:8–11)

Key repeated statements:

“He hath sent me”

“I will dwell in the midst of thee”

“Saith the LORD”

“Ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me”

The question is who can grammatically and contextually say all of this at once.

OPTION 1
“These were the very words of Zechariah”
✅ Reasons it could be Zechariah

Prophets sometimes speak in the first person for God

Example:

“Thus saith the LORD… I will…” (common prophetic pattern)

Zechariah is a prophet receiving visions and delivering messages.

Zechariah is present in the vision context (Zech 1–2).

❌ Reasons it is unlikely to be Zechariah

Zechariah is never described as being “sent to the nations”

The text says:

“After the glory hath He sent me unto the nations which spoiled you”

Zechariah’s mission is to Judah, not to the nations.

Zechariah does not perform divine actions

The speaker says:

“I will shake mine hand upon them”

In Scripture, shaking nations in judgment is consistently God’s action, not a prophet’s.

The speaker promises:

“I will dwell in the midst of thee”

Nowhere does Scripture say a prophet personally dwells among the people as the divine presence.

The speaker distinguishes himself from “the LORD of hosts”

“Ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me”

Zechariah never speaks this way about himself elsewhere.

🔎 Conclusion for Option 1
Grammatically possible, but contextually strained and inconsistent with Zechariah’s role elsewhere in the book.

OPTION 2
“These were the words of an angel”
✅ Reasons it could be an angel

Angels are explicitly active in Zechariah

Zech 1–2 repeatedly mentions:

“the angel that talked with me”

interpreting angels

sent messengers

Angels are sent beings

“The LORD of hosts hath sent me” fits angelic language.

Angels sometimes speak on God’s behalf

They may say “I” while delivering divine speech.

❌ Reasons it is unlikely to be an angel

Angels do not say “I will dwell in the midst of thee”

Scripture consistently distinguishes:

Angels = messengers

God = the One who dwells among His people

The speaker says:

“They shall be MY people”

Angels do not claim covenant ownership.

Nations join to the LORD, not to the speaker

Yet the speaker still says:

“I will dwell in the midst of thee”

This implies identity with the LORD’s presence, not a subordinate servant.

The repetition is intentional:

“The LORD of hosts hath sent me” appears twice

The speaker insists on being sent, yet acts as LORD

🔎 Conclusion for Option 2
An angel fits the “sent” language,
but fails to fit the covenant and indwelling language.

OPTION 3
“These are the words of Jesus Christ”

⚠️ Important note:
I am not asserting theology here—only evaluating whether the text itself allows or resists this identity.

✅ Reasons it could be Jesus Christ (text-only)

The speaker is distinct from YHWH yet speaks as YHWH

“YHWH of hosts hath sent me”

“I will dwell in the midst of thee”

This duality is not explained, only stated.

The speaker is sent

“He hath sent me”

Scripture elsewhere shows that being sent does not imply inferiority, only mission.

The speaker performs divine actions

Judgment of nations

Covenant ownership (“My people”)

Divine indwelling

The speaker says:

“I come”

This implies arrival, not merely speaking from heaven.

The pattern is internally consistent:

Sent by YHWH

Speaks as YHWH

Dwells among the people

❌ Reasons the text does not explicitly identify Jesus

The name “Jesus” does not appear

The text itself does not label the figure.

The passage does not explain how this identity works

It states facts, not mechanisms.

Identification depends on connections outside Zechariah

The text alone allows, but does not define.

🔎 Conclusion for Option 3
The text allows this reading grammatically and contextually,
but does not name the figure, leaving identification open.

Final Comparison Table
Option Fits Grammar Fits Context Explains All Statements
Zechariah ⚠️ Partial ❌ Weak ❌ No
Angel ⚠️ Partial ⚠️ Partial ❌ No
Jesus Christ ✅ Strong ✅ Strong ⚠️ Implied, not named
Final Neutral Conclusion

From context and grammar alone:

The speaker is not comfortably Zechariah

The speaker exceeds the normal role of an angel

The speaker is:

Sent by YHWH

Speaks as YHWH

Dwells among the people

Claims covenant ownership

The text intentionally presents a sent speaker who shares divine identity without explanation.

That is not theology.
That is what the text actually does.

| Option | Fits Grammar | Fits Context | Explains All Statements |
| ------------ | ------------ | ------------ | ----------------------- |
| Zechariah | ⚠️ Partial | ❌ Weak | ❌ No |
| Angel | ⚠️ Partial | ⚠️ Partial | ❌ No |
| Jesus Christ | ✅ Strong | ✅ Strong | ⚠️ Implied, not named |

From Gemini

To determine who the "me" in this text is based strictly on the grammar and the internal logic of the Bible, we have to look at the actions claimed by the speaker and the titles used.

Here is an analysis of your three options using only the biblical text as a guide.

1. Are these the words of Zechariah (The Prophet)?
Why it could be: In many prophetic books, the prophet speaks in the first person ("He sent me". Zechariah is clearly the human author recording the vision.

Why it likely is not: * The Power of the Hand: In verse 9, the speaker says, "I will shake mine hand upon them... and they shall be a spoil." In the Old Testament, the "shaking of the hand" to judge nations is an action attributed to the Divine (see Isaiah 11:15 or Isaiah 19:16). A human prophet warns of judgment but rarely claims the personal power to execute it.

The Possession of People: In verse 11, the speaker says the nations "shall be my people." Throughout the Bible, the "nations" or "the people" are exclusively called the people of YHWH (God). A human prophet never refers to the redeemed nations as his own personal possession.

2. Are these the words of an Angel?
Why it could be: Zechariah 1 and 2 feature an "Interpreting Angel" and the "Angel of the LORD." Verse 11 says, "thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee." This fits the definition of a "Messenger" (the literal meaning of the Hebrew Malak/Angel).

Why it likely is not:

The Indwelling: The speaker says in verse 10, "I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee." While angels visit, the Bible consistently describes the "dwelling in the midst" of Zion as the unique presence of God (the Shekinah).

The Worship/Joining: Verse 11 says nations will be joined to the LORD and then immediately says they will be "my people." If an angel is the speaker, he is equating "joining the LORD" with "becoming the angel's people," which would be a violation of the biblical principle that worship and belonging are for God alone.

3. Are these the words of Jesus Christ?
Why it could be: * The Sent-Sender Paradox: The text presents a speaker who is sent by the LORD of Hosts (verse 9, 11) but who also speaks as the LORD (verse 10, 11). This matches the biblical description of the "Word" or "Son" who is distinct from the Father (the Sender) but is identical in nature (the One who dwells and owns the people).

The Transformation of Nations: Verse 11 speaks of "many nations" being joined to the LORD. This is a central theme in the New Testament regarding Christ’s mission to the Gentiles.

Why it could be challenged (using only the text): The name "Jesus Christ" does not appear in the text. From a strictly Old Testament perspective, the speaker is the "Angel of the LORD" or the "Presence of God." While Christian theology identifies this figure as the pre-incarnate Christ, the text itself identifies the speaker simply as a "Sent One" who carries the full authority and name of YHWH.

Grammatical Verdict: The "Sent LORD"
If we follow the grammar of the Bible as our only guide, the most likely conclusion is a mix of Divine and Messenger identities.

The Speaker is YHWH: In verse 10, the speaker says, "I will dwell... saith the LORD (YHWH)."

The Speaker is Sent by YHWH: In verse 11, the same speaker says, "The LORD (YHWH) of hosts hath sent me."

The result: The text demands a speaker who is functionally a messenger (sent) but essentially God (dwells in the midst, owns the people, judges the nations). Within the context of the whole Bible, this role is uniquely filled by the figure known as the "Angel of the LORD" or the "Word," whom the New Testament identifies as Jesus Christ.

To determine which identity best fits the text of Zechariah 2:8–11 based strictly on the biblical record and grammatical structure, we can compare how each option handles the specific claims made by the speaker.

The primary tension in the text is the "Sent-Sender" paradox: the speaker is sent by the Lord of Hosts, yet the speaker is the Lord who dwells and owns the people.

I attached the table from Gemini below

From Grok
Summary from the text alone (no outside influence)

Option 1 (Zechariah) is the weakest fit. The grammar keeps separating the speaker from the LORD who sent him, and nothing in the chapter assigns these divine actions or “sent to the nations” role to the prophet himself.
Option 2 (angel) is strong on “sent me” and fits the visionary/angelic context very well, but weakens when the speaker claims covenant ownership (“my people”) and personal indwelling (“I will dwell in the midst of thee”)—language the text normally reserves for YHWH alone.
Option 3 (Jesus Christ) is the strongest overall fit when judged purely by what the sentences actually do:
The speaker is explicitly sent by YHWH of hosts.
Yet the speaker speaks and acts as YHWH (judgment, indwelling, making people “my people”).
The text never resolves the identity—it simply presents a sent figure who shares the divine presence and actions.


The passage intentionally creates a sent-yet-divine speaker without giving a name or explanation.
That is what the grammar and context produce on their own.
The text allows Option 3 most comfortably, resists Option 1 most strongly, and leaves Option 2 in the middle.

Now, just for fun, I ask AI to also point out if the context and Grammar shows it was the Lord of hosts speaking. Here is the result.

To determine if the Lord of Hosts (the Sender) is the one speaking throughout the entire passage, we must examine the internal logic of the verses. In the Hebrew text, "Lord of Hosts" (YHWH Tzevaot) usually refers to God in His capacity as the Commander of Heavenly Armies.

Based strictly on the text provided, here is the assessment:

Analysis of "The Lord of Hosts" as the Speaker
Fits Grammar (Partial): The passage begins with "For thus saith the Lord of Hosts," which usually indicates everything following is His direct word. However, the grammar immediately creates a problem: the speaker says, "He [the Lord of Hosts] hath sent me." If the Lord of Hosts is the speaker, He is speaking about Himself in the third person as the one who sent Himself.

Fits Context (Strong): The context is the sovereign protection of Israel. The authority to "shake the hand" over nations and to "dwell in the midst" of Zion is the exclusive prerogative of the Lord of Hosts in the Old Testament.

Explains All Statements (Weak): This is the main hurdle. If the Lord of Hosts is the only figure present, the phrase "and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me" (repeated in verses 9 and 11) becomes nonsensical. It would mean the Lord of Hosts is sent by the Lord of Hosts to prove that the Lord of Hosts sent Him.

Why the "Lord of Hosts" Score is Lower
The text explicitly describes a relationship between two entities who both share the same divine authority:

The Sender: Identified as "The Lord of Hosts."

The Sent One: Identified as "Me," who also claims the title "The Lord" (Jehovah) in verse 10.

If you conclude the Lord of Hosts is the speaker, you must explain why He refers to Himself as a messenger sent by Himself. While God can speak of Himself in the third person, the phrase "thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee" specifically uses the language of commissioning—one person sending another to fulfill a task.

Summary
The text is most "unbiased" when it is allowed to remain in its natural state: The Lord of Hosts is speaking through a Messenger who is also called the Lord. While the "Lord of Hosts" is the ultimate source of the words, the grammar shows He is describing a specific "Sent One" (the "Me" who will be the one physically dwelling in the midst of the people. This is why the Jesus Christ option (or the "Pre-incarnate Word" scores higher: it is the only option that accounts for there being two who are called "Lord" in the same scene—one sending and one being sent.

Would you like to see other passages where the "Lord of Hosts" and the "Angel of the Lord" appear in the same verse as distinct persons?

| Reading | Grammar | Context | Internal Consistency |
| ---------------------------- | ------- | ------- | -------------------- |
| LORD alone, undifferentiated | ⚠️ | ⚠️ | ❌ |
| Angel | ⚠️ | ❌ | ❌ |
| Prophet | ⚠️ | ❌ | ❌ |
| LORD who is sent by LORD | ✅ | ✅ | ✅ |

MaxInDHouse:
This is what my own Jesus said about his proof of existence in the midst of his disciples:

I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another.  By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves. John 13:34-35

So our own Jesus is not our God rather he is our brother:

“Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to MY BROTHERS and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God." John 20:17

Our own Jesus is one of our brothers as in worshiper of our Father and God who is LOVE {1John 4:8} that's why he could confidently say if we are truly his friends LOVE will bind us together as one happy global family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4

Of course everyone is talking about the LOVE that exists among Jehovah's Witnesses in fact when anyone loses his or her membership as one of us they are forever worried because instead of going out there to join thousands of other religions they keep complaining as they can never ever find a better replacement for the true believers in Christ!🙂

The evidence that abound in your organisation is well known and unbecoming for anyone who claims to be remotely connected to Christ.
Do you want me to give you evidences of countless P.E.D.O. lust existing within your esteemed members?

TenQ:
The evidence that abound in your organisation is well known and unbecoming for anyone who claims to be remotely connected to Christ.
Do you want me to give you evidences of countless P.E.D.O. lust existing within your esteemed members?

LOVE covers a multitude of sin {1Peter 4:8} after a public reproof a sinner is to be helped {2Corinthians 2:5-8} if he shows a repentant attitude so it's LOVE as Jesus commanded us that's working. John 13:34-35
Meanwhile there is no single religion out there that's free from such accusations.

What else do you have to say?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
LOVE covers a multitude of sin {1Peter 4:8} after a public reproof a sinner is to be helped {2Corinthians 2:5-8} if he shows a repentant attitude so it's LOVE as Jesus commanded us that's working. John 13:34-35
Meanwhile there is no single religion out there that's free from such accusations.

What else do you have to say?🙂

Haaa!
Paedophilic lust covers a multitude of sin!?

TenQ:
Haaa!
Paedophilic lust covers a multitude of sin!?

Did Jesus say there won't be sinners among his sheep?

Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” Matthew 9:13

I know that is why you refused to come up with the name of any known group but Jesus never condemn anyone due to sin rather what he condemned and told us to shun is UNREPENTANT wrongdoer! Matthew 18:15-17

So can you confidently mention the name of your church now🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Did Jesus say there won't be sinners among his sheep?

Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” Matthew 9:13

I know that is why you refused to come up with the name of any known group but Jesus never condemn anyone due to sin rather what he condemned and told us to shun is UNREPENTANT wrongdoer! Matthew 18:15-17

So can you confidently mention the name of your church now🙂

It's okay that Jesus couldn't install the fruit of the Holy Spirit in you. It's no wonder that we see the counterfeit fruit which is the works of the flesh

Gal 5:19-21:
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."


Do you want us to continue flogging this or you choose to focus on topics and issues avoided ?



Help Bookmark and Truthseeker10 by answering the questions

1. Can anyone see God?
2. Can God be in Heaven and on Earth concurrently?
3. Who was speaking in Heb1:8 to the Son?

Did Jesus say there won't be any sinner among his disciples?

YES or NO?🙂

TenQ:
It's okay that Jesus couldn't install the fruit of the Holy Spirit in you. It's no wonder that we see the counterfeit fruit which is the works of the flesh

Gal 5:19-21:
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."


Do you want us to continue flogging this or you choose to focus on topics and issues avoided ?



Help Bookmark and Truthseeker10 by answering the questions

1. Can anyone see God?
2. Can God be in Heaven and on Earth concurrently?
3. Who was speaking in Heb1:8 to the Son?

MaxInDHouse:
Did Jesus say there won't be any sinner among his disciples?

YES or NO?🙂

Are you trying to justify ur P*****p fphil lick tendencies?

There some sins even unbelievers scarcely commit: it is a shame when anyone affiliated with Jesus is found in them

1Cor 5:1:
"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife."

TenQ:
Are you trying to justify ur P*****p fphil lick tendencies?
There some sins even unbelievers scarcely commit: it is a shame when anyone affiliated with Jesus is found in them
1Cor 5:1:
"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife."

The sin reported @ 1Corinthans 5:1 was committed by a Christian or pagan?

After he was punished {1Corinthans 5:11-13} did they welcome him back into the fold as a repentant sinner? 2Corinthians 2:5-11

This is why i keep referring to your Jesus as "IT" because there is no Jesus of your kind in the Bible. The real Jesus said he came to call sinners not the righteous {Matthew 9:13} so there is no way we will not have them in our midst but after we have shunned the wrongdoer for being unrepentant {Matthew 18:15-17} we must console him if he later shows a repentant attitude.

What Paul is saying there is clear we are to scold wrongdoers in our midst not kill them o!😂

MaxInDHouse:
The sin reported @ 1Corinthans 5:1 was committed by a Christian or pagan?

After he was punished {1Corinthans 5:11-13} did they welcome him back into the fold as a repentant sinner? 2Corinthians 2:5-11

This is why i keep referring to your Jesus as "IT" because there is no Jesus of your kind in the Bible. The real Jesus said he came to call sinners not the righteous {Matthew 9:13} so there is no way we will not have them in our midst but after we have shunned the wrongdoer for being unrepentant {Matthew 18:15-17} we must console him if he later shows a repentant attitude.

What Paul is saying there is clear we are to scold wrongdoers in our midst not kill them o!😂

Should this kind of sin be mentioned as normal in the church?



1. Can anyone see God?
2. Can God be in Heaven and on Earth concurrently?
3. Who was speaking in Heb1:8 to the Son?

TenQ:
Apologize for telling lies!
Don't you have shame?


Have a nice day!

🤣🤣🤣Baba don run

TenQ:
Should this kind of sin be mentioned as normal in the church?
1. Can anyone see God?
2. Can God be in Heaven and on Earth concurrently?
3. Who was speaking in Heb1:8 to the Son?

Highlighted is what Pharisees were saying against our Master Lord and King Christ Jesus {Luke 7:34} but he said such ones needs to be attended to! Matthew 9:12

Please is your own Jesus a real person or an imaginary character?

Because you are not quoting the Bible Jesus but creating another one that isn't found in the Bible!😀

MaxInDHouse:
Highlighted is what Pharisees were saying against our Master Lord and King Christ Jesus {Luke 7:34} but he said such ones needs to be attended to! Matthew 9:12

Please is your own Jesus a real person or an imaginary character?

Because you are not quoting the Bible Jesus but creating another one that isn't found in the Bible!😀

This has nothing to do my my last post to you.

As reference, check below

TenQ:
Should this kind of sin be mentioned as normal in the church?



1. Can anyone see God?
2. Can God be in Heaven and on Earth concurrently?
3. Who was speaking in Heb1:8 to the Son?

TenQ:
This has nothing to do my my last post to you. As reference, check below

You started by saying your Jesus is XYZ but can't stick to what the Bible Jesus teaches in thoughts, words and actions!😀

TenQ:
Normally, I shouldn't respond to your question but I feel led to answer you without using scripture.


1. You are the number one proof of God's existence. You exist and you are an intelligent and rational creature. A Building is the evidence of a Builder. A painting is the evidence of a Painter!
2. There is a scientific evidence that the universe had not being for ever, it has an age of about 13.6billion years old
3. There is a scientific evidence that time, space and matter appeared simultaneously at the origin of the universe expansion
4. There exist a scientific law of entropy that prevents you to self assemble from nothing
5. Because of entropy we know that the universe had not always existed.
6. There is a scientific law of cause and effect operating in the universe
7. Based on this, the Universe is the effect of a cause.
8. The cause must have happened before the universe, meaning that the cause CANNOT operate on any physical or chemical laws.
9. This Primary Cause is what for now we call the Uncaused-First-Cause of Everything .
10. This Cause must be Spaceless, Timeless, Matterless and Intelligent because every law of physics and chemistry came into being only after the universe came into being.

This Uncaused-First-Cause of Everything is what we Christians call God. He cannot be Seen, not touched because He operates in a Far much Higher DIMENSIONS than the physical dimensions.

We call His Dimension the Spiritual Dimension.

A Human beings is a Biological Organism with a SOFTWARE called the SOUL. He also has a Kernel Software called the SPIRIT.

With his Spirit, he knows that God exists and has given him a Conscience for good and bad/right and wrong.

God has chosen some men to act as intermediaries between Him and us humans all through the earth history. He backs them up with His power and we know them as Prophets, they tell us more about God so that each one of us can have our SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE with Him. From them we know that Humans are Spiritually Dead and are subject to decay just as the Universe is slowly dying.

So, if you are looking for God, you cannot see Him not experience Him from your physical dimension. You have to tune into your conscience. Inside God we all exist including both the physical realm and the heavenly realms


Have you read the Book Flat Land
I ask you to read it:
Flatland: It is A Romance of Many Dimensions and a satirical novella written by Edwin A. Abbott

Summary of note: A person in a 2D world will argue till tomorrow that the 3D world doesn't exist. Miracle exist in the 2D world when someone in the 3D space changes something in the 2D space.


My Questions:
1. If you think there is nothing like the Uncaused-First-Cause of Everything , bring your evidence as
It is scientifically impossible to have an infinite regress of Cause and Effect
2. The DNA is a compendium or Library of Data, Information and Instructions. Tell me if it is possible for a computer program to write itself given an infinite time to juggle alphanumeric characters to form the codes.
*Don't forget that a simultaneous existence of the information code and information decoder must also exist at the machine level.



I leave you to your conscience.


God loves you and He wants you saved!

God is NOT the sky-daddy you think, You are INSIDE Him. You Live in Him. It's like a fish saying it water and air doesn't exist.

Funny how you accuse people of not reading something then they take apart the entire religious argument "false scientific claims" and you go quiet, i smell hypocrisy aka bullshit.

Boomark:
⛈️ TEST FOR DELUSION

⚖️ Carefully examine these scriptures and test yourself. You will also see they don't teach the most important commandment how it is written.

🗡️ II Thessalonians 2:10-12 NKJV
[10] and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, [12] that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


🗡️ John 8:40 NKJV
[40] But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.

⚖️ We are going to test ourselves to know if we believe the truth from God's word. Have it at the back of your mind that the reason for the delusion is refusal to accept the truth that came from God . The truth Christ heard from God and told us.

TEST 1

The Father is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ.

🗡️ John 20:17 KJV
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

🗡️ Ephesians 1:17 NIrV
[17] I pray to the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is the glorious Father. I keep asking him to give you the wisdom and understanding that come from the Holy Spirit. I want you to know God better.

🗡️ Revelation 1:6 NKJV
[6] and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen

🗡️ Revelation 3:12 NIrV
[12] Here is what I will do for anyone who has victory over sin. I will make that person a pillar in the temple of my God. They will never leave it again. I will write the name of my God on them. I will write the name of the city of my God on them. This is the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God. I will also write my new name on them.


Question 1

Do you believe Christ and his word that he has a God, that the Father is his God?

⚖️ If you see yourself finding it difficult or refusing to accept that the Father is the God of Jesus Christ or think in your heart that Jesus doesn't know what he is saying, especially in Revelation, that he is equal to the Father, then it is delusion.

Turning away from the teachings of Jesus Christ means you don't have God and Christ (2 John 1:9, very important).


TEST 2

Jesus Christ alone is called the word of God.

🗡️ John 1:14 LSB
[14] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.*


🗡️Revelation 19:13 KJV
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


🗡️ Revelation 22:18 NIrV
[18] I am warning everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book. Suppose someone adds anything to them. Then God will add to that person the plagues told about in this book.


Question 2

Do believe that Jesus Christ alone is fit to be called the word of God, without adding that the bible also is called the word of God?

⚖️ If you see yourself refusing to stick to what God himself say is called the word of God. By *adding* that the bible is also called the word of God, against the warning in Revelation 22:18, you are disobedient and deluded. You added something that does not exist anywhere in the scripture. Giving to a book the glory that God gave to Christ alone (a book is what it was called in Revelation 22:18-19). The scripture says, do not add to anything that is written in that book be it inside or outside the book.


TEST 3

Yahweh, God the Father is the one God of Israel (Jacob) and one God over us all.

🗡️Acts 3:13 NKJV
[13] The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


🔥 The most important commandment.🔥

🗡️ Deuteronomy 6:4 LSB
[4] “Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one!
[5] You shall love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

🗡️Mark 12:29-30, 32 NIrV
[29] Jesus answered, “Here is the most important one. Moses said, ‘Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one. [30] Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Love him with all your mind and with all your strength.’ (Deuteronomy 6:4,5)[32] “You have spoken well, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one. There is no other God but him.


🗡️ 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 NIrV
[4] ....We know that “there is only one God.” [5] There may be so-called gods either in heaven or on earth. In fact, there are many “gods” and many “lords.” [6] But for us there is only one God. He is the Father. All things came from him, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord. He is Jesus Christ. All things came because of him, and we live because of him.


🗡️ John 17:3 NIrV
[3] And what is eternal life? It is knowing you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Question 3

Do you believe that we have only one God and he is God the Father (The only true God)?


Do you believe that whoever is the God of Jesus Christ is one God over all?

⚖️ If you see yourself refusing to acknowledge that there is one God, and that he is Father. Saying that there are three persons/personalities in one God (Trinity), then it is delusion. Delusion is when you have refused to believe the truth Christ told us but have chosen something that does not exist in the scripture. You reject the most important commandment God gave.

Antichrist means opposition to Christ (his teachings).

It is only the cunning serpent that will tell people to say the opposite of the truth God gave to Christ. Test yourself.


You can ask me any question from the scripture and I will answer all.


Boomark Of God

The real test for delusion.......

The more you actually think about Christianity, the more ridiculous it becomes.
God “loves” you, but if you don’t love him back in the exact correct way, he burns you in hell forever. Out of love, obviously.
He creates you with sin already built in, even though he hates sin.
So he puts the thing he hates inside you, then blames you for having it.
But remember, he loves you. He just hates what he deliberately put in you.
Then comes the solution.
He creates a son who is also himself, with a pre planned mission to be killed, by rules he made, to forgive humans for breaking rules he knew they would break.
He sacrifices himself to himself.
Then undoes the sacrifice three days later.
Which somehow still counts as the ultimate sacrifice.
Except it wasn’t even three days.
Friday evening to Sunday morning isn’t three days, but don’t question it. Smile, nod, amen.
Sin still exists. Suffering still exists.
But you’re told this fixed everything.
And after all of that, if you still don’t understand it properly, don’t accept it correctly, or don’t love him the right way
eternal fire.
But don’t forget
he always loves you.
The real message is simple
don’t think for yourself.
And the irony
the Serpent didn’t force anything.
Didn’t threaten. Didn’t promise. Didn’t lie.
He asked one question.
“Do you want to know?”
That was the real crime.

MaxInDHouse:
You started by saying your Jesus is XYZ but can't stick to what the Bible Jesus teaches in thoughts, words and actions!😀

I would like to know the XYZ that I said about Jesus that is not according to the bible.

It is easy to tell such lie on a Faceless platform like this

Fenrir:
Funny how you accuse people of not reading something then they take apart the entire religious argument "false scientific claims" and you go quiet, i smell hypocrisy aka bullshit.

You this wannabe atheist:

There are at least 10 points raised AND
All you needed to do was to quote one of the scientific errors I stated, show why it is an error and you would have corrected a religious fanatic.

Fenrir:
The real test for delusion.......

The more you actually think about Christianity, the more ridiculous it becomes.
God “loves” you, but if you don’t love him back in the exact correct way, he burns you in hell forever. Out of love, obviously.
He creates you with sin already built in, even though he hates sin.
So he puts the thing he hates inside you, then blames you for having it.
But remember, he loves you. He just hates what he deliberately put in you.
Then comes the solution.
He creates a son who is also himself, with a pre planned mission to be killed, by rules he made, to forgive humans for breaking rules he knew they would break.
He sacrifices himself to himself.
Then undoes the sacrifice three days later.
Which somehow still counts as the ultimate sacrifice.
Except it wasn’t even three days.
Friday evening to Sunday morning isn’t three days, but don’t question it. Smile, nod, amen.
Sin still exists. Suffering still exists.
But you’re told this fixed everything.
And after all of that, if you still don’t understand it properly, don’t accept it correctly, or don’t love him the right way
eternal fire.
But don’t forget
he always loves you.
The real message is simple
don’t think for yourself.
And the irony
the Serpent didn’t force anything.
Didn’t threaten. Didn’t promise. Didn’t lie.
He asked one question.
“Do you want to know?”
That was the real crime.

When your entire understanding of Christianity is based on ignorance!
SMH!

It is easy to defeat a Strawman!

TenQ:
When your entire understanding of Christianity is based on ignorance!
SMH!

It is easy to defeat a Strawman!

+
Much of what the fellow said is sadly true about the absurdity of Xristianity and it is this response of yours which rather appears escapist.

DeepSight:
+
Much of what the fellow said is sadly true about the absurdity of Xristianity and it is this response of yours which rather appears escapist.

Birds of the same feathers!

TenQ:
Birds of the same feathers!

Be serious. I remember you as a thinker. Dont just hand wave and claim there arent valid points in what he wrote which any serious seeker of truth would not stop to ponder on.

DeepSight:
Be serious. I remember you as a thinker. Dont just hand wave and claim there arent valid points in what he wrote which any serious seeker of truth would not stop to ponder on.

I listed 10 scientific facts, yours is to pick one at a time and justify why it is false

TenQ:
I listed 10 scientific facts, yours is to pick one at a time and justify why it is false

+
Alright, the link.