₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
While keeping old traditions is part of what makes a thing similar to roots, it is hard to argue along those lines alone in this because Islam holds on to several other non-Christian traditions as well. 🥱

For instance, the worship of the stone at the Kaaba comes from the tradition of worship of Idols that predate Islam. Even the tradition of ambulating and then kissing the black stone, referred to as the Hajj by Mohammedians predates Islam. Mohammed tried to have all other Kaabas destroyed, but didn't totally succeed. The Kaaba, dedicated to Zoroaster and other local idols in Iran, which dates back about 2500 years, still exists to this day. We don't know if the former occupants of the Kaabas destroyed by Mohammed prostrated in the same manner that Mohammedians do today, or if the former worshippers at the current Kaaba refurbished by Mohammed for his own religion worshipped in the same way that Mohammedians are tasked with today. 🥱

If you have ever visited a Buddhist temple to see Buddhists pray, you will find that many of their posturing are also similar to what you find Mohammedians doing regularly. So, it becomes hard to definitively claim that Mohammedians merely copied ancient Christian prayer rituals. This is my take on this, at least.🥱

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Another way to consider this is to consider that at one point, Mohammed is written to have worn his own hair as the Jews and Christians did during his time, but after he fell out with them, he switched back to patting his hair again like the pagans - Sahih Bukhari 7:72:799. Surely you can see how ridiculous it would be for us to argue along this line in determining whether Mohammed's belief was in alignment with the religion of Christianity or not. 🥱

The 30 day fast too existed before Mohammed

lawani:
➜The 30 day fast too existed before Mohammed

I am not certain where that specifically came from, except Mohammed copied that from Jewish traditions that are taken from the Talmud or the Misnah but definitely not the Torah or the Injeel.🥱🥱

The fasting that is lent, which is associated with Christian traditions, is typically set at 40-days and is connected with the erroneous notion that the time from the Passover supper to the day the Holy Spirit showed up was 40 days.

Kobojunkie:
I am not certain where that specifically came from, except Mohammed copied that from Jewish traditions that are taken from the Talmud or the Misnah but definitely not the Torah or the Injeel.🥱🥱

The fasting that is lent, which is associated with Christian traditions, is typically set at 40-days and is connected with the erroneous notion that the time from the Passover supper to the day the Holy Spirit showed up was 40 days.

The pagan origin of Ramadan

https://rrimedia.org/Worldviews/Islam/History-of-Islam/ArtMID/1458/ArticleID/98/The-Pagan-Origins-of-Ramadan-Fasting

Kobojunkie:
For instance, the worship of the stone at the Kaaba comes from the tradition of worship of Idols that predate Islam. Even the tradition of ambulating and then kissing the black stone, referred to as the Hajj by Mohammedians predates Islam. Mohammed tried to have all other Kaabas destroyed, but didn't totally succeed. The Kaaba, dedicated to Zoroaster and other local idols in Iran, which dates back about 2500 years, still exists to this day. We don't know if the former occupants of the Kaabas destroyed by Mohammed prostrated in the same manner that Mohammedians do today, or if the former worshippers at the current Kaaba refurbished by Mohammed for his own religion worshipped in the same way that Mohammedians are tasked with today. 🥱

You made this up otherwise what historical source did you get this from? Where were these Kaaba? The so-called Iranian Kaaba (Ka‘ba-ye Zartosht) got that name hundreds of years after Islam came about. There’s no sign people made pilgrimages there or worshiped idols, and it’s still standing today. So Muhammad pbuh didn’t destroy it. The name comes from popular use, not because these places shared the same religious meaning.

Before Islam, Arabia had shrines, not many Kaabas. Muhammad didn’t tear down a whole class of buildings called Kaabas. Instead, he cleared idols out of the Meccan Kaaba and changed the existing rituals toward strict monotheism. This was a reform, not something he inherited.

Kobojunkie:
Another way to consider this is to consider that at one point, Mohammed is written to have worn his own hair as the Jews and Christians did during his time, but after he fell out with them, he switched back to patting his hair again like the pagans - Sahih Bukhari 7:72:799. Surely you can see how ridiculous it would be for us to argue along this line in determining whether Mohammed's belief was in alignment with the religion of Christianity or not. 🥱

About the part on hair grooming you mentioned from Bukhari, it doesn’t prove anything about religious beliefs. A style choice isn’t the same as faith. If haircuts decided religion, Jews, Christians, pagans, and Muslims would all be the same religion whenever their styles match. The hadith shows changes in social habits, not in what people believe. Trying to prove Christianity by looking at hair parting is as silly as using clothing styles to prove someone’s religion.

honesttalk21:
➜You made this up otherwise, what historical source did you get this from? Where were these Kaaba? The so-called Iranian Kaaba (Ka‘ba-ye Zartosht) got that name hundreds of years after Islam came about.
➜ There’s no sign people made pilgrimages there or worshiped idols, and it’s still standing today. So Muhammad pbuh didn’t destroy it. The name comes from popular use, not because these places shared the same religious meaning.
➜ Before Islam, Arabia had shrines, not many Kaabas. Muhammad didn’t tear down a whole class of buildings called Kaabas.
➜ Instead, he cleared idols out of the Meccan Kaaba and changed the existing rituals toward strict monotheism. This was a reform, not something he inherited.
➜About the part on hair grooming you mentioned from Bukhari, it doesn’t prove anything about religious beliefs. A style choice isn’t the same as faith. If haircuts decided religion, Jews, Christians, pagans, and Muslims would all be the same religion whenever their styles match. The hadith shows changes in social habits, not in what people believe. Trying to prove Christianity by looking at hair parting is as silly as using clothing styles to prove someone’s religion.

1. My focus isn't on the name but rather on the fact that the structure, very similar to the Kaaba in Mecca, existed long before Islam showed up on the landscape. The fact that it is known and has a history dating back to a known period and religion means it had traffic enough to keep it alive and going even to this day, contrary to what you would like us to believe.

2. The Kaaba(cube) of Zoroaster dates back as far as the Achaemenid era. It has history. And the religion of Zoroastrianism survives to this day. Not thanks to Mohammed, but a wonder beyond him, as the other Kaabas are known to have been destroyed by Islam.

3. Not much is known of the Meccan Kaaba before Islam showed up. However, information indicates — even in the Quran— that Mohammed ordered the destruction of at least one other Kaaba. Even Mohammed's claim that the black stone came down to Abraham is unsubstantiated, as there exists no history beyond 605CE when the Meccan Kaaba was rebuilt by Mohammed.

4. You mean instead an attempted rebranding of the worship of many idols in the Kaaba into the worship of just the major god in the original pantheon?🥱🥱

5. That is not according to Mohammed—Sahih Muslim 2:50, Sahih Bukhari 7:72:780 - 799, Sahih Bukhari 4:46:668, Bulugh Al Maram 16:1514, Sahih Muslim 2:502— who instead shared that Mohammedians had to groom themselves in ways that set them apart from all the other groups.... pluck their mustache while letting their beards grow out, pluck their underarm hair, etc. Grooming, in Islam, seems to carry great weight as there is no way not to notice how muslims seem to all strive to look alike everywhere you go.

Kobojunkie:
1. My focus isn't on the name but rather on the fact that the structure, very similar to the Kaaba in Mecca, existed long before Islam showed up on the landscape. The fact that it is known and has a history dating back to a known period and religion means it had traffic enough to keep it alive and going even to this day, contrary to what you would like us to believe.

2. The Kaaba(cube) of Zoroaster dates back as far as the Achaemenid era. It has history. And the religion of Zoroastrianism survives to this day. Not thanks to Mohammed, but a wonder beyond him, as the other Kaabas are known to have been destroyed by Islam.

3. Not much is known of the Meccan Kaaba before Islam showed up. However, information indicates — even in the Quran— that Mohammed ordered the destruction of at least one other Kaaba. Even Mohammed's claim that the black stone came down to Abraham is unsubstantiated, as there exists no history beyond 605CE when the Meccan Kaaba was rebuilt by Mohammed.

4. You mean instead an attempted rebranding of the worship of many idols in the Kaaba into the worship of just the major god in the original pantheon?🥱🥱

5. That is not according to Mohammed—Sahih Muslim 2:50, Sahih Bukhari 7:72:780 - 799, Sahih Bukhari 4:46:668, Bulugh Al Maram 16:1514, Sahih Muslim 2:502— who instead shared that Mohammedians had to groom themselves in ways that set them apart from all the other groups.... pluck their mustache while letting their beards grow out, pluck their underarm hair, etc. Grooming, in Islam, seems to carry great weight as there is no way not to notice how muslims seem to all strive to look alike everywhere you go.

You repeat you argument which I earlier faulted. Shape-based comparisons and unproven assumptions rather than historical evidence do not improve your stance. The structure known as Ka‘ba-ye Zartosht indeed predates Islam, but it functioned as a stone tower at a royal necropolis rather than a pilgrimage site; archaeological research reveals no signs of ritual activity, idols, or ongoing religious use. Its continued existence resulted from abandonment, not active worship, and the name was assigned centuries after the advent of Islam, based solely on its appearance.

In contrast, the Kaaba in Mecca was recognized in pre-Islamic Arabia as a pilgrimage shrine, mentioned in early poetry and traditions. Islam did not create this structure; it transformed its corrupted polytheistic use by removing idols while preserving the site representing a reform of function to the original rather than an inheritance of corrupted belief.

There are no historical records indicating that Muhammad pbuh destroyed multiple
Kaabas as a category of buildings. Pre-Islamic Arabia contained various shrines and temples but lacked standardized Kaabas. You share no reference to your contrary view.

Claims about the Black Stone are mischaracterized. Islam does not regard the Black Stone as an object of worship, traditional Islamic texts clearly indicate that the Stone neither brings benefits nor causes harm.

The accusation of rebranding misinterprets Islamic theology. Islam did not promote a major god from an existing pantheon; it explicitly denied the entire pantheon. Keeping a structure while renouncing its cult does not equate to fusion or alliance.

Grooming practices mentioned in hadith serve as markers of social identity rather than indicators of theological origins or architectural continuity. Dress and grooming help distinguish communities everywhere; they do not determine the source of beliefs.

honesttalk21:
➜You repeat you argument which I earlier faulted. Shape-based comparisons and unproven assumptions rather than historical evidence do not improve your stance. The structure known as Ka‘ba-ye Zartosht indeed predates Islam, but it functioned as a stone tower at a royal necropolis rather than a pilgrimage site; archaeological research reveals no signs of ritual activity, idols, or ongoing religious use. Its continued existence resulted from abandonment, not active worship, and the name was assigned centuries after the advent of Islam, based solely on its appearance.
➜ In contrast, the Kaaba in Mecca was recognized in pre-Islamic Arabia as a pilgrimage shrine, mentioned in early poetry and traditions.
➜ Islam did not create this structure; it transformed its corrupted polytheistic use by removing idols while preserving the site representing a reform of function to the original rather than an inheritance of belief.
➜ There are no historical records indicating that Muhammad pbuh destroyed multiple
Kaabas as a category of buildings. Pre-Islamic Arabia contained various shrines and temples but lacked standardized Kaabas. You share no reference to your contrary view.
➜ Claims about the Black Stone are mischaracterized. Islam does not regard the Black Stone as an object of worship, traditional Islamic texts clearly indicate that the Stone neither brings benefits nor causes harm.
➜ The accusation of rebranding misinterprets Islamic theology. Islam did not promote a major god from an existing pantheon; it explicitly denied the entire pantheon. Keeping a structure while renouncing its cult does not equate to fusion or alliance.
➜ Grooming practices mentioned in hadith serve as markers of social identity rather than indicators of theological origins or architectural continuity. Dress and grooming help distinguish communities everywhere; they do not determine the source of beliefs.

1. Seems you desperately want us to believe that no one visited what was a temple dedicated to the Zoroastrian religion in Persia.

The Ka'ba-ye Zartosht (Cube of Zoroaster), a 5th-century BCE, 2,500-year-old stone structure at Naqsh-e Rustam, Iran, has an uncertain, debated function. The most prominent theories suggest it served as a Zoroastrian fire temple or eternal flame repository, a royal mausoleum for Achaemenid kings, or a repository for sacred texts and royal documents.

That seems quite a stretch! 🥱🥱

2. How far back do these supposed traditions and poetry go back? Can you please provide references for my research? I am digging into the pre-Islamic history of Mecca and have yet to find much regarding the town existing as a hub before Mohammed and his claims regarding Islam showing up there. 🥱

3. If the current Hajj mirrors the Hajj from before the adoption of the Kaaba into Islam, how can it be considered a transformation? 🥱🥱

4. Mohammed ordered at least one Kaaba. That is recorded in the Quran(backed by the Hadiths). Islam has it that Mohammed is the perfect being to be followed by his believers, so it isn't really out of the question to suggest that Mohammedians would have taken it on themselves to destroy other Kaabas(even those outside of record) just on Mohammed's example. 🥱🥱

5. Rubbing and kissing the stone in hopes that it will bear witness on your behalf on the last day isn't worship of the stone? Are you for real? Which of the other inanimate objects in your regular life that you probably rub and kiss from time to time, do you equally expect to be there for you and to bear witness on your behalf on this Islamic Last Day? Your toothbrush? Spoon or plastic bowl? 🥱🥱

6. Retaining a structure and the traditions that surround the visiting of it —the Hajj— while getting rid of just some of the idols in the structures— the black stone, an idol, was retained and is rubbed and kissed to this day— sounds a lot like a rebranding job than anything else. 🥱🥱

The Hajj poses intriguing historical questions to students of Islam. Most quintessential Islamic icons, such as the Qur’an, ritual prayer, and the Ramadan fast are closely associated with Muhammad’s prophetic mission, but the Hajj is explicitly ascribed a much more ancient history. Although Muslim and non-Muslim scholars disagree over its precise antiquity, there is consensus that Muhammad embraced a pre-existing Hajj ritual.
Several Western scholars have studied this ‘pre-Islamic Hajj’ to explore what they believe to be Islam’s syncretism, and they contend that Muhammad’s Hajj incorporated rituals from Arabian paganism, litholatry (stone worship), and even Judaism. 1 Muslims, on the other hand, maintain that the Hajj was originally a divinely inspired monotheistic practice for the worship of Allah, which was gradually corrupted by Arabian polytheists, but then restored by Muhammad to its original intention and correct monotheistic significance.

The two camps of scholars make divergent arguments, but they are united by a common objective of proving the ‘true history’ of the ‘actual’ pre-Islamic Hajj. Their work, however, is confronted by evidential problems. The Muslim account relies on an oral tradition purportedly explaining all details of the ancient origin of Hajj, but this tradition only survives in sources from the Islamic era and lacks both corroboration from pre-Islamic texts and archaeological substantiation. Western academic theories for their part pose interesting questions and highlight inconsistencies in the Muslim tradition, but they too lack the textual and archaeological evidence necessary to establish cogent alternatives.

7. Social Identity, even in countries that are predominantly Islamic? Nonsense! 🥱🥱🥱

Kobojunkie:
1. Seems you desperately want us to believe that no one visited what was a temple dedicated to the Zoroastrian religion in Persia.
That seems quite a stretch! 🥱🥱

2. How far back do these supposed traditions and poetry go back? Can you please provide references for my research? I am digging into the pre-Islamic history of Mecca and have yet to find much regarding the town existing as a hub before Mohammed and his claims regarding Islam showing up there. 🥱

3. If the current Hajj mirrors the Hajj from before the adoption of the Kaaba into Islam, how can it be considered a transformation? 🥱🥱

4. Mohammed ordered at least one Kaaba. That is recorded in the Quran(backed by the Hadiths). Islam has it that Mohammed is the perfect being to be followed by his believers, so it isn't really out of the question to suggest that Mohammedians would have taken it on themselves to destroy other Kaabas(even those outside of record) just on Mohammed's example. 🥱🥱

5. Rubbing and kissing the stone in hopes that it will bear witness on your behalf on the last day isn't worship of the stone? Are you for real? Which of the other inanimate objects in your regular life that you probably rub and kiss from time to time, do you equally expect to be there for you and to bear witness on your behalf on this Islamic Last Day? Your toothbrush? Spoon or plastic bowl? 🥱🥱

6. Retaining a structure and the traditions that surround the visiting of it —the Hajj— while getting rid of just some of the idols in the structures— the black stone, an idol, was retained and is rubbed and kissed to this day— sounds a lot like a rebranding job than anything else. 🥱🥱



7. Social Identity, even in countries that are predominantly Islamic? Nonsense! 🥱🥱🥱

On Ka'ba-ye Zartosht: I never stated that no one visited it; rather, I pointed out that archaeological evidence lacks any indication of religious worship. Schmidt (Persepolis III, 1970) and Stronach (Pasargadae, 1978) found no fire altars, cult objects, ash deposits, votive offerings, or signs of pilgrimage. Just because it is near Persepolis does not turn the absence of evidence into proof of worship.

On pre-Islamic Mecca sources: Since you are researching, here are some primary sources:
Diodorus Siculus, Bibliotheca Historica 3.42 (1st c. BCE), describes an Arabian sacred sanctuary. Ptolemy's Geography (2nd c. CE) references Macoraba, which likely refers to Mecca. Abraha's Sabaean inscription CIH 325 (6th c. CE) documents his campaign against Mecca. Muallaqat (pre-Islamic Arabic poetry) mentions the pilgrimage to Mecca.
Procopius, History of the Wars (6th c.) notes the Hijaz trade routes.

On transformation versus continuity:
Keeping the form of circumambulation while removing polytheistic content indicates transformation, not mere rebranding. Early Christianity adopted Roman basilica architecture without embracing Roman theology. Consider this: could pagans have altered an originally monotheistic practice that Islam later restored?

On multiple Kaabas destroyed: You have claimed this five times without providing a single citation. No verse from the Quran or authentic hadith supports this assertion. Documented destructions involved idols and illegitimate shrines, not a general category of Kaabas. Please provide one textual reference or acknowledge that this claim is unfounded.

On Black Stone veneration: Islam explicitly states that the Stone neither benefits nor harms (ʿUmar, Sahih Bukhari 1610). Ritual respect does not equate to worship. By your reasoning, Jews worship the Western Wall, Catholics revere relics, and Americans salute flags. The distinction between veneration in ritual and deification exists across all traditions.

On social identity: Every culture uses appearance to establish group identity denying this even in Islamic countries overlooks basic sociological principles. However, this does not speak to theological origins. Your original assertion was that grooming practices indicate Islam borrowed from others; I demonstrated that grooming serves as a marker of cultural identity and is irrelevant to doctrinal lineage.

Your argument relies on conjecture (Zoroastrian worship lacking evidence), unjustifiable claims (destroyed Kaabas with no sources), and redefined terms (veneration equating to worship). Without concrete evidence, these remain assertions rather than sound arguments.

Unless you present verifiable evidence for your main assertions, this conversation cannot progress beyond your speculation compared to documented history.

lawani:
Islam was originally a sect of Christianity

All the stories in the Quran did not exist anywhere except in the custody of Jews and Christians before Mohammed. There was no way Mohammed could have gotten them except from Jews and Christians
Mohammed also believed in the Prophethood of Jesus Christ and also in his immaculate conception or virgin birth. Jews do not believe that and the only people who believed that prior to Mohammed's birth were sects of Christianity. There is no where else he could have gotten the story if not from one of these sects that were present in Arabia back then. It is therefore academically sound to say he was originally converted by one of these sects. There is no other way. He was converted by Christians because they were the only ones who revered Jesus and believed in the virgin birth back then
Mohammed like many who came after him accepted Christianity and added his own to it for it to become Islam. He added in the main the practices of his own people. He is no different from the founders of Mormon church, Jehovah witness, Celestial church, cherubim and Seraphim and etc

So Christianity was originally a sect from Jewish religion (moses) abi? Lol

ShaheedBinAliyu:
So Christianity was originally a sect from Jewish religion (moses) abi? Lol

Yes it actually was or how could it have been possible to share holy books? The first Christians were Jews and they were trying to reform Judaism according to their persuasions. The Jews resisted and persecuted them from the onset. In the same way Mohammed was converted by Christians. He accepted their teachings on Jesus and Islam was never persecuted by Christians originally until much later. The fight between Christianity and Islam is not different from the one between Protestants and Cathoiics

lawani:
Yes it actually was or how could it have been possible to share holy books? The first Christians were Jews and they were trying to reform Judaism according to their persuasions. The Jews resisted and persecuted them from the onset. In the same way Mohammed was converted by Christians. He accepted their teachings on Jesus and Islam was never persecuted by Christians originally until much later. The fight between Christianity and Islam is not different from the one between Protestants and Cathoiics

Stop making this false claim without evidence. Who was the Christian that converted Muhammad pbuh and where? Give traceable reference.

honesttalk21:
Stop making this false claim without evidence. Who was the Christian that converted Muhammad pbuh and where? Give traceable reference.

Do you know his wife Khadijah the business woman that was his employer was a Christian and according to reports spent her last years in a nunnery? I however can not find where I read that online again. If Mohammed was not a Christian, how did he come to believe in the virgin birth and that Jesus was a prophet? If you say God told him, no academic mind will take you serious. Was it also God who told him his own name and etc?

lawani:
Do you know his wife Khadijah the business woman that was his employer was a Christian and according to reports spent her last years in a nunnery? I however can not find where I read that online again. If Mohammed was not a Christian, how did he come to believe in the virgin birth and that Jesus was a prophet? If you say God told him, no academic mind will take you serious. Was it also God who told him his own name and etc?

Wow! There is no historical evidence to support the claim that Khadijah was Christian or part of a nunnery. Muhammad pbuh’s understanding of Jesus aligns with typical 7th-century Jewish-Christian beliefs in Arabia rather than indicating any conversion. Assertions made without sources isn't history
Trust me isn't evidence.

honesttalk21:
Wow! There is no historical evidence to support the claim that Khadijah was Christian or part of a nunnery. Muhammad pbuh’s understanding of Jesus aligns with typical 7th-century Jewish-Christian beliefs in Arabia rather than indicating any conversion. Assertions made without sources isn't history
Trust me isn't evidence.

When I find what I read I will post it. Mohammed's understanding of Jesus aligns with Christian beliefs not Jewish-Christian beliefs. All the good impressions he had of Jesus came from Christians and not from Jew-Christians. Jews did not have any good or positive impression about Jesus. There is nothing like Jew-Christian

lawani:
When I find what I read I will post it. Mohammed's understanding of Jesus aligns with Christian beliefs not Jewish-Christian beliefs. All the good impressions he had of Jesus came from Christians and not from Jew-Christians. Jews did not have any good or positive impression about Jesus

Good luck with that. Waiting 2 debunk your lies

I

lawani:
Yes it actually was or how could it have been possible to share holy books? The first Christians were Jews and they were trying to reform Judaism according to their persuasions. The Jews resisted and persecuted them from the onset. In the same way Mohammed was converted by Christians. He accepted their teachings on Jesus and Islam was never persecuted by Christians originally until much later. The fight between Christianity and Islam is not different from the one between Protestants and Cathoiics

Your ignorance is very loud.

Judaism isn't religion of moses and Christianity isn't the name of religion of Eesa.
Muhammad was never converted by anything.

From the first prophet to Eesa.. they all came with same message.. WORSHIP ALLAH ALONE.

Muhammad is the last prophet, Hence the completion of religion is on him.
Go read suratul baqorah


Christianity and islam fight is AQEEDAH. Jesus is not God nor son of God nor holy spirit.


Protestants and Catholic fight is just for MONEY. They're both pagan. Worshipping Human beings (jesus and others)

ShaheedBinAliyu:
I

Your ignorance is very loud.

Judaism isn't religion of moses and Christianity isn't the name of religion of Eesa.
Muhammad was never converted by anything.

From the first prophet to Eesa.. they all came with same message.. WORSHIP ALLAH ALONE.

Muhammad is the last prophet, Hence the completion of religion is on him.
Go read suratul baqorah


Christianity and islam fight is AQEEDAH. Jesus is not God nor son of God nor holy spirit.


Protestants and Catholic fight is just for MONEY. They're both pagan. Worshipping Human beings (jesus and others)

You are the ignorant one otherwise you would have known that early Christian sects did not believe in or teach trinity. How then were they different in teaching from Islam? Trinity only became a thing in the fourth century. Islam is anti trinitarian Christianity fused with the pagan practices of Mohammed's people. He was converted by christians and he then added the practices of his own people to create a new sect just as did many before and after him.

Are Jews Muslims? If no then the prophets before Mohammed can't be considered Muslims. Muslims are those who try to convert others, have a holy book and fight over God. Only Christians were like that before Mohammed. No other so called prophet of Allah apart from Mohammed behaved like that. They lived in a world that followed common sense.

However little, there are doctrinal differences peculiar to each Christian sect. What is the fight over between Shia and Sunni? The difference between JW and Catholic is not much different from between Islam and Catholic

lawani:
You are the ignorant one otherwise you would have known that early Christian sects did not believe in or teach trinity. How then were they different in teaching from Islam? Trinity only became a thing in the fourth century. Islam is anti trinitarian Christianity fused with the pagan practices of Mohammed's people. He was converted by christians and he then added the practices of his own people to create a new sect just as did many before and after him.

Are Jews Muslims? If no then the prophets before Mohammed can't be considered Muslims. Muslims are those who try to convert others, have a holy book and fight over God. Only Christians were like that before Mohammed. No other so called prophet of Allah apart from Mohammed behaved like that. They lived in a world that followed common sense.

However little, there are doctrinal differences peculiar to each Christian sect. What is the fight over between Shia and Sunni? The difference between JW and Catholic is not much different from between Islam and Catholic

Like I said, you ignorance is very loud.. .

You are just talking without proofs.

Well, Qur'an has explained everything.
Grab a Qur'an, read suratul Maryam.


Once again, your ignorance is screaming

Pagan practices in Islam? Laughing
Muhammad was converted by Christians.. laughing out loud. So Muhammad was originally a what? Before he was converted to Christian.. and then he became a Muslim? Laughing


If anything you want to say about Islam.. you can't quote Qur'an or hadiths to support your claim, it's all going into dustbin.

How on earth you want to talk about Islam and Muhammad and you won't quote a single Qur'an verse or hadiths? Laughing. . Till you get sense.. then quote me




...

If you don't know the reason why shia and sunni are at war with each other, as expected, you can't understand why catholic and Protestants and Jehovah Witness are at war with eachother.
You even say the difference between Jehovah witness and Catholic is not much? Who the hell is this kid saying nonsense lol

ShaheedBinAliyu:
✓ So Christianity was originally a sect from Jewish religion (moses) abi? Lol

Wrong! Christianity is not based on Moses. Rather, it claims to be associated from a non-israelites stance to Jesus, same was Mohammed also attempts to associate his idea to Jesus. 🥱🥱

Try to keep up instead of attempting to take the argument in circles. 🥱🥱

ShaheedBinAliyu:
➜ Like I said, you ignorance is very loud.. . You are just talking without proofs.
Well, Qur'an has explained everything. Grab a Qur'an, read suratul Maryam.
➜ Once again, your ignorance is screaming Pagan practices in Islam? Laughing
➜ Muhammad was converted by Christians.. laughing out loud. So Muhammad was originally a what? Before he was converted to Christian.. and then he became a Muslim? Laughing
➜ If anything you want to say about Islam.. you can't quote Qur'an or hadiths to support your claim, it's all going into dustbin. How on earth you want to talk about Islam and Muhammad and you won't quote a single Qur'an verse or hadiths? Laughing. . Till you get sense.. then quote me
➜ If you don't know the reason why shia and sunni are at war with each other, as expected, you can't understand why catholic and Protestants and Jehovah Witness are at war with eachother. You even say the difference between Jehovah witness and Catholic is not much? Who the hell is this kid saying nonsense lol

1. That Chapter in your Quran contains one of the most ignorant errors that condemns the books more as a book of made-up tales than anything else. 🥱🥱

Miriam, sister of Aaron and daughter of Imran, has nothing to do with Christianity or Jesus. How a so-called all-knowing Mohammed Allah could have missed that is astounding. 🥱🥱

2. Yes, there are lots of pagan origins to your traditions in Islam.
⚉ Your Kaaba was a house of idols that once housed the same black stone, which is still worshipped by Mohammedians.
⚉ Your Hajj, Prayer rituals, including your ablution traditions, Ramadan,etc, are traditions taken from the pagan tradition of the people around the area, notably the Sabeans, who are recognized in your Quran
⚉ Even your myths, including the idea that when you sleep you die -- Allah takes your soul and returns it until he no longer does -- is taken from Talmudic and Mishna pages.
⚉ Even Mohammed's suggestion that his followers chop their mustaches is associated with the negative emotions he has when visited by two Zoroastrians. Their tradition is to keep their mustache, so Mohammed decided to have his own people chop off their mustache to set themselves apart from the Zoroastrians. 😂
Many aspects of Islam are copied over from traditions that existed before the book, the Quran, was compiled. And many were pagan in origin. 🥱🥱

2. We don't know that Mohammed underwent a formal conversion, but what is clear is that Mohammed was not against taking Christian ideas and adding them to his own religious ideas. One could even argue that th moment Mohammed decided to take advice from a Christian regarding the identity of the demon he supposedly encountered in the cave, he may have sealed his journey down the rabbit hole that is Christianity as the origin for his ideas.😂😂

4. All that associates Islam with paganism are found in the Quran and Hadiths. The Chapter on Mariam, Mohammed's rebranding of the Kaaba, Mohammed's encounter with the Zoroastrians, Mohammed's entanglements with the Sabeans, the Jews, and the Christians... they are all taken from the Quran and the Hadiths. 🥱

5. Those differences have nothing to do with this topic. 🥱🥱🥱

Kobojunkie:
1. That Chapter in your Quran contains one of the most ignorant errors that condemns the books more as a book of made-up tales than anything else. 🥱🥱

Miriam, sister of Aaron and daughter of Imran, has nothing to do with Christianity or Jesus. How a so-called all-knowing Mohammed Allah could have missed that is astounding. 🥱🥱

2. Yes, there are lots of pagan origins to your traditions in Islam.
⚉ Your Kaaba was a house of idols that once housed the same black stone, which is still worshipped by Mohammedians.
⚉ Your Hajj, Prayer rituals, including your ablution traditions, Ramadan,etc, are traditions taken from the pagan tradition of the people around the area, notably the Sabeans, who are recognized in your Quran
⚉ Even your myths, including the idea that when you sleep you die -- Allah takes your soul and returns it until he no longer does -- is taken from Talmudic and Mishna pages.
⚉ Even Mohammed's suggestion that his followers chop their mustaches is associated with the negative emotions he has when visited by two Zoroastrians. Their tradition is to keep their mustache, so Mohammed decided to have his own people chop off their mustache to set themselves apart from the Zoroastrians. 😂
Many aspects of Islam are copied over from traditions that existed before the book, the Quran, was compiled. And many were pagan in origin. 🥱🥱

2. We don't know that Mohammed underwent a formal conversion, but what is clear is that Mohammed was not against taking Christian ideas and adding them to his own religious ideas. One could even argue that th moment Mohammed decided to take advice from a Christian regarding the identity of the demon he supposedly encountered in the cave, he may have sealed his journey down the rabbit hole that is Christianity as the origin for his ideas.😂😂

4. All that associates Islam with paganism are found in the Quran and Hadiths. The Chapter on Mariam, Mohammed's rebranding of the Kaaba, Mohammed's encounter with the Zoroastrians, Mohammed's entanglements with the Sabeans, the Jews, and the Christians... they are all taken from the Quran and the Hadiths. 🥱

5. Those differences have nothing to do with this topic. 🥱🥱🥱

Your first sentence proved your ignorance is extremely loud.

Talking to you is like talking to a wall

ShaheedBinAliyu:
✓ Your first sentence proved your ignorance is extremely loud.

Talking to you is like talking to a wall

Don't run away yet. How does the statement prove my supposed ignorance? 🤔🤔

ShaheedBinAliyu:
Like I said, you ignorance is very loud.. .

You are just talking without proofs.

Well, Qur'an has explained everything.
Grab a Qur'an, read suratul Maryam.


Once again, your ignorance is screaming

Pagan practices in Islam? Laughing
Muhammad was converted by Christians.. laughing out loud. So Muhammad was originally a what? Before he was converted to Christian.. and then he became a Muslim? Laughing


If anything you want to say about Islam.. you can't quote Qur'an or hadiths to support your claim, it's all going into dustbin.

How on earth you want to talk about Islam and Muhammad and you won't quote a single Qur'an verse or hadiths? Laughing. . Till you get sense.. then quote me




...

If you don't know the reason why shia and sunni are at war with each other, as expected, you can't understand why catholic and Protestants and Jehovah Witness are at war with eachother.
You even say the difference between Jehovah witness and Catholic is not much? Who the hell is this kid saying nonsense lol

You are calling your father's age mate a kid. Learn manners. I don't regard the Quran as a holy book. You quote the Quran to validate your lame claims. I don't need to quote any book to validate logic. Only people who choose ignorance in this age remain ignorant. Google contradictions in the Quran and weigh properly your holy book. Again I don't regard the Quran or the Bible.

All Islamic practices were practiced by pre Islamic polytheists from Ramadan fast to periodic prayers and etc. Islam is Christianity fused with pagan practices of Mohammed's clan. Hajj was pagan practice, Ramadan was pagan practice and etc. What is left? You don't need more than basic common sense to come to the right conclusion. Who needs Quran verses to know Mohammed learnt about the virgin birth and Jesus prophet hood from Christians? Just a little research and you know Ramadan fast was in place thousands of years before Mohammed etc. You don't need the hadiths and the Quran. You need common sense

Islamic fast is absolutely different from Christian fast or any other fasting.


1. Eat before sunrise
2. Break your fast after twilight
3. Read Qur'an very well
4. Concentrate on your act of worship better
5. Make dua during lailatul qodar
6. Nawafil Tarawih (12 rakahs)

For 29 or 30 days

Kobojunkie:
Don't run away yet. How does the statement prove my supposed ignorance? 🤔🤔

You want to argue about Islam and you can't quote Qur'an or Hadiths to support your claim but base less conjecture.

Nah.. you don't worhh my time.

Kobojunkieee:
Alright! Let's begin with the Miriam debacle stated in the Quran.
➜ Quran 3 vs 35 - 45, states that Mary is the daughter of Imran and mother of Jesus
➜ Quran 19 vs 28, then claims she is the sister of Aaron
➜ Quran 66 vs 12, again refers to her as a daughter of Imran.

How could Mohammed's all-knowing Allah not realize that Mary and Miriam, in Israelite history, were different women who lived during different times and had totally different life experiences? 🥱

Maryam 19:28

يَآأُخۡتَ هَٰرُونَ مَا كَانَ أَبُوكِ ٱمۡرَأَ سَوۡءࣲ وَمَا كَانَتۡ أُمُّكِ بَغِيࣰّا

English - Sahih International

O sister [i.e., descendant] of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."

English - Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged)

2283




Cry more and let me keep exposing your ignorance

Kobojunkieee:
Islam's Ramadan( and the calendar used in determining the details of it) as practiced by Mandaeans, Sabean moon worshippers. 🥱🥱

As expected, ignorant reply.

Islam has been existing from the beginning of the creation. Started with Adam. All those you mentioned stole the practice from Islam

ShaheedBinAliyu:
➜Maryam 19:28
يَآأُخۡتَ هَٰرُونَ مَا كَانَ أَبُوكِ ٱمۡرَأَ سَوۡءࣲ وَمَا كَانَتۡ أُمُّكِ بَغِيࣰّا
English - Sahih International
O sister [i.e., descendant] of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."
English - Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged)
2283
Cry more and let me keep exposing your ignorance

.⚉ Mary was not a descendant of Aaron, nor is there any record that her mother was a "chaste" woman. 🥱🥱

If you have ever read the Bible, you would know that it doesn't always matter one's lineage, parents, or the supposed chasteness of one's mother when it comes to those who are chosen as righteous by YHWH. (Maybe Mohammed's Allah did not tell him that one of the prophets of YHWH was married by YHWH to a prostitute— she continued prostituting herself even while married to the prophet in question.) But I can tell that, like Mohammed, your ideas about the book's content also come from religious regurgitation. 🥱🥱

ShaheedBinAliyu:
➜As expected, ignorant reply.
Islam has been existing from the beginning of the creation. Started with Adam. All those you mentioned stole the practice from Islam

. Yet no one ever heard or breathed anything about Islam until after Mohammed showed off and carried out at least 80 military campaigns (27 of which he took part in), all in a span of the last 23 years of his life, to conquer and force Islam down the throats of people who otherwise would not have considered him much as recorded right there in his Quran and the many Hadiths that accompany it. Come on now! 🥱🥱

Kobojunkie:
. Yet no one ever heard or breathed anything about Islam until after Mohammed showed off and carried out at least 80 military campaigns (27 of which he took part in), all in a span of the last 23 years of his life, to conquer and force Islam down the throats of people who otherwise would not have considered him much as recorded right there in his Quran and the many Hadiths that accompany it. Come on now! 🥱🥱

That's according to your conjectures as usual. It's all in the Qur'an. Go read