₦airaland Forum

Realguyman1:
The north have been birthing anyhow right from day one of Nigeria nor be today e start, the problem we have is this useless set of civilians we have in government in the name of democracy.

Why didn't the people causing all this insecurities in Nigeria today dears it when the military guys of those days were in power? it's the politicians that are causing all this insecurity wahala we are passing through now, and the useless civilian government since 1999 have been the one enabling them because most of them in government are also part of it.

So unfortunate we are going to live with this insecurities for a very long time because Nigerians are not even ready at all for anything good.

At the bolded ......that something looks normal or it is what they do regularly doesn't make it right nor sustainable.
It may be right or sustainable THEN BUT it is no longer SUSTAINABLE and what you are seeing now is the dividends of their long term actions.
Nigeria can not afford the population it has NOW for the resources around.
One man, One wife and 2 kids MAX is the best going forward if not, no matter what a goverment do, if the population growth rate is constantly higher than GDP growth rate, the country will always fail.

zeyt:
This Lere thought he know something about the North but he dont. Whe you see Northerner earning less as a salary rest assured that its like hobby only stupid depends on salary. Average Norherner is a farmer and can feed your entire family all year round without reverting to salary.
In the North you see a family with over 20 children and yet they never experience deprivation and are all well brought up effectly contributing to the society.

Lol...Feed our entire family? depends on what you call feeding.
Those non-balanced diet foods?
And do you actually think raising kids is all about feeding?
We have a very long way to go in this country honestly.
I am afraid of the future of Nigeria my kids will grow into.

obeegee:
Nah nah

Those people you see begging on the roads in Abuja are mostly people displaced from conflict zones. They usually have nowhere else to go. Hence, they come to the most lucrative part of the country for begging.

Insecurity is the bigger problem.

Actually the man having 17 children is good for the country. Where do you think the labor comes from to cultivate lands in the north to grow the food we all desperately need?

Are you really serious about this statement? that a man who can't take care of his 17 children is good for the country? because of cheap farm labours?
Omoh.......i think it is high time i need to hustle visa for my kids not to stay in this kind of enviroment.
What happens to having lesser kids like 2, well trained so that rather than working labourously in the farm for token, they can have the resources to get good eductaion for mechanized farming and earn better.
What 17 kids will do in a month, a well trained good earning tractor driver will do in a day or 2.
DOn't you think this is better?

Mirasteel:
They are more educated than you and also try to respect people's religion.

Lol....and we are not seeing more of them online or social media contributing their quota with good comments.

SixSeven:
They are also not materialistic in nature so once the Maslow's hierachy of needs is satisfied, the rest is extra to them. It's those in cities like Lagos who want to have the biggest mansion, biggest car, extra buttocks etc. They are close to nature and contentment. This is why their elites take advantage of this simple life to buy all the luxury and pretend to be simple.

And being contented with the lowest maslow's ranking of human wants is their major drawback.
They are satisfied with just fulfiling the first step of human wants which is feeding and in today's world, there is more to humans than feeding.
Without aspiration to be better, to not be contented with the little you have currently, you will never be competitive with the outside world and sooner or later, those who aspire to get better, know better, earn better, get educated better, experiment more, innovate more will conquer those who are meek.
It is the reason our forefathers and african were conqured in the first place because they were just satisfied with the little they had - add more wives, drinking all day and dancing at the king's palace or market square all day long.
They were not inovative or aspiring alot and today we the generations are suffering it.

CorperKola:
I saw a story recently that made me vwry emotional
A man's wife died after child birth, she had five babies but one died remaining four
The man said ultrasound saw just 3 babies during her pregnancy but she delivered five
After giving birth she kept repeating that she might not survive this but the husband should make sure he takes care of their children and send them to school
I was really sad
Now they asked the man what do you do for a living
He said maruwa driver
How many children did you and your wife have before now
This man said 10
As in Ten !!!
Freaking Ten !!!
Now fourteen !!!!

I didnt even know whether to be angry or sad again
This was in Kano

Useless people.

10 kids before and still have 4 more and you are driving keke Maruwa ....... That is generational poverty.

I HATE people with more than 3 kids with passion.
If you want me to be active or comment alot on nairaland, just press my activation button which is a thread about irresposible parenting or too many kids.
You will always see me there pouncing on the useless parents.
I had trauma growing up and i don't pray even for my enemy to experience the poverty i passed through.
Poverty kills dreams, passions, aspirations, skills, love and so many things.
Life is very sweet and beautiful. SO many things to enjoy, to experience and see yet poverty will make evey seconds, minutes, hours and days of your life to be terrible, miserable and frustrating.
All you will know and experience is hardship, struggling, bitter experiences, low self esteems etc
Parents who deliberately through their actions subjects their kids to poverty are the real SATANS

emmaodet:
Are you really serious about this statement? that a man who can't take care of his 17 children is good for the country? because of cheap farm labours?
Omoh.......i think it is high time i need to hustle visa for my kids not to stay in this kind of enviroment.
What happens to having lesser kids like 2, well trained so that rather than working labourously in the farm for token, they can have the resources to get good eductaion for mechanized farming and earn better.
What 17 kids will do in a month, a well trained good earning tractor driver will do in a day or 2.
DOn't you think this is better?

Over 90% of farming in nigeria is not mechanized. Ask yourself, were these guys not having 17 children for many years before terrorism and insecurity started?

I still think the bigger issue is the displacements caused by this insecurity we face.

emmaodet:
But insecurity is constantly fueled by having too many kids you can't cater for, right?
So it is a circle

Yes it is the fuel.

But not what started it. If insecurity was and is dealt with decisively, these guys would not resort to terrorism.

A country having a big population is not a bad thing. There would always be the poor and rich. Making policies to increase the productivity of the population is the bigger question.

obeegee:
Over 90% of farming in nigeria is not mechanized. Ask yourself, were these guys not having 17 children for many years before terrorism and insecurity started?

I still think the bigger issue is the displacements caused by this insecurity we face.

But the displacement is majorly caused by having too many kids that can't be trained and are all now ripe to take up arms to displace them.
Many of those husa/fulanis into farming and cattle herding are not interested in it anymore because what they will make in their life time can be made in just kidnapping and collecting ransom within a week or a month.
A boy left to rot in the street who is now working for alhaji taking his 50 cows around and only comes home toeat in the morning and night for 20 years after which he is settled with his own 5 cows to start his life.
Now imagine the same person been introduced to a kidnapping gang and after 1 operation gets 5m, do you think such a person will go back to cow herding or farming?
And they have so so so many untrained children who are jostling to be the next terrorists, rebels, kidnappers, cow rustlers etc

obeegee:
Yes it is the fuel.

But not what started it. If insecurity was and is dealt with decisively, these guys would not resort to terrorism.

A country having a big population is not a bad thing. There would always be the poor and rich. Making policies to increase the productivity of the population is the bigger question.

You can't solve a problem when those causing the problems will gladly add more even if you are trying to solve it.
We will always get back to this junction.

Okay, let's look it this way.
Let's assume for a moment the govt is good and doing things right - electricity, good roads, train, hospitals and schools.
What do you think will happen?
The THANK YOU the govt will get from these people is going to even be more wives - to more kids - back to our initial junction - more problems.
And we will be here referencing the old good action of the govt that afterall, past govt did it right and fed everyone, therefore the current one has no excuse than to find a way to do it too.
We will always come back to this junction.
The bitter truth is that population growth as to slow down drastically.

A man earning 300k who decided to marry 2 wives and have 5 kids will continue to struggle even if his income or salary is increasing by 100k every 5 years years while he keeps giving birth to extra kids every 2 years.
No matter what he does, he will always struggle compared to keeping just 1 wife and 2 kids while the salary keeps increasing by 100k every 5 years

TONYE001:
I also get your position, but see...

Consider these two terms...

Children of the street and children in the street. Please, look them up - if you are not familiar with them.

Do a study of the profiles of criminals around...locally and internationally. You'd find a recurring decimal - absent/suboptimal parenting. More specifically, in our environment, you'd find that most of them are those whose parents abandoned, or those who did not receive adequate parental care.

People have needs, once these needs are not met, and in the absence of a good moral structure, people would look for alternative pathways to get their needs fixed, whether legal or not. Older children (adolescents, teenagers) and adults with no skills, no education, no/poor support easily flood the streets and perpetrate crime.

This has been a constant.

So, what's my take? Insecurity is a problem, yes, but this problem is fed/worsened/maintained by the continuous production of children beyond the immediate capacities of their parents....that is, children that will spill into the streets to "do anything to survive."

These kids flood the streets to beg for alms, and those that have access to weapons/sponsors easily dive into crime.

Yes bro. Your last two paragraphs are spot on and i respect your opinion

Yes i agree we have a problem with people having more kids than they can cater for. My point is that a larger proportion of these people we see begging on the streets are people displaced by war. If they were never displaced, then they would have been more useful to themselves some way (most especially farming) and not be easily recruited to crime.

Lamasta:
Before the advent of terrorism in the north they have been over breeding and marrying many wives, the terrorism we are facing today is not due to the effect of marrying many wives and giving birth to many children but politicians are the major terrorist we are facing in this country once this evil politicians settle their score terrorism will be defeated

What the current world economy and Nigeria in focus is saying is that the bolded is not sustainable anymore.
That it was in the 50s or 80s doesn't mean it will be in the 20s.
"The only constant thing in life is change, and it sweeps away those who are allergic to it."

emmaodet:
You can't solve a problem when those causing the problems will gladly add more even if you are trying to solve it.
We will always get back to this junction.

Okay, let's look it this way.
Let's assume for a moment the govt is good and doing things right - electricity, good roads, train, hospitals and schools.
What do you think will happen?
The THANK YOU the govt will get from these people is going to even be more wives - to more kids - back to our initial junction - more problems.
And we will be here referencing the old good action of the govt that afterall, past govt did it right and fed everyone, therefore the current one has no excuse than to find a way to do it too.
We will always come back to this junction.
The bitter truth is that population growth as to slow down drastically.

A man earning 300k who decided to marry 2 wives and have 5 kids will continue to struggle even if his income or salary is increasing by 100k every 5 years years while he keeps giving birth to extra kids every 2 years.
No matter what he does, he will always struggle compared to keeping just 1 wife and 2 kids while the salary keeps increasing by 100k every 5 years

Fair point you made.

But i dont think we are the first country in the world with people having many kids. I dont think forcing people to have less kids is the solution. If opportunities are created for all (even through farming), then those MANY kids would be an asset to the country's economy.

emmaodet:
But the displacement is majorly caused by having too many kids that can't be trained and are all now ripe to take up arms to displace them.
Many of those husa/fulanis into farming and cattle herding are not interested in it anymore because what they will make in their life time can be made in just kidnapping and collecting ransom within a week or a month.
A boy left to rot in the street who is now working for alhaji taking his 50 cows around and only comes home toeat in the morning and night for 20 years after which he is settled with his own 5 cows to start his life.
Now imagine the same person been introduced to a kidnapping gang and after 1 operation gets 5m, do you think such a person will go back to cow herding or farming?
And they have so so so many untrained children who are jostling to be the next terrorists, rebels, kidnappers, cow rustlers etc

Yes yes.

But this is us now trying to make excuses for the government's inaction.

If the govt deals decisively with crime (including kidnapping mentioned above), then these kids wont see it as an option, and would make themselves more useful economically. Yes they make less money roaming around with cows, but they still make a living from it, and when the cows are sold, it adds to the productivity of our economy

obeegee:
Fair point you made.

But i dont think we are the first country in the world with people having many kids. I dont think forcing people to have less kids is the solution. If opportunities are created for all (even through farming), then those MANY kids would be an asset to the country's economy.

Yes, we are not the first country with huge population but most huge population countries face the same issue.

There are 3 major factors that cause poverty - 2 are out of our control while 1 is which is ourselve.
I can control how much politicians will steal, i can't force them to do the roads, schools in my area. I don't even know which account number nigeria's crude oil money is enetring, when they are sharing it or into which account it is going into BUT i can control where i dip my dick, if i am going to release inside that woman, how many times i want to and how many kids i intend to have.
So betwen these 2 options, which one do you think a man should focus on?
I know we humans don't like to be blamed or know that we are part of the problem.
We feel okay pointing accusing fingers at others or govt for our predicament.
There are Natural laws you can beat no matter the argument.
The natural Law of Forces of Demand and Supply
Law of polarity and many more.
SO also is the natural Law of Population.
A family of 4 (man, wive and 2 kids) in Burundi or Somalia despite how poor and terrible they are should do better than a family of 6 or 8 in burundi or somalia.
A family of 4 earning 500k in kaduna will do better than a family of 8 or 10 earning same in kaduna.
A family of 4 in japan, canada, Uk or anywhere is expected to do better than a family of 8 or 10 in those countries.
A man earning 1m per month working for mobil with 2 kids and a wife is expected to do better than a man in the same company earning same salary but with 2 wives and 10 kids.
Nigeria wih 20 million population earning curent revenue, pumping same oil and passing this same budget will be better than a nigeria of 200m people with the same condition -- Nature bro, Nature

obeegee:
Yes yes.

But this is us now trying to make excuses for the government's inaction.

If the govt deals decisively with crime (including kidnapping mentioned above), then these kids wont see it as an option, and would make themselves more useful economically. Yes they make less money roaming around with cows, but they still make a living from it, and when the cows are sold, it adds to the productivity of our economy

There is govt inaction and there is the citizens inaction too.

Agreed, the govt failed us and is that why we should also fail ourselves? at our own end?
Moreover, if we agree the govt is bad, is that not a point we need to factor into our decision making?
I know the govt is bad, won't sponsor or support me yet i still go ahead in birthing more kids that will even cause more problems for me, what do you think about thi? is it proper?
There is no way a govt will deal with crime when the populace are creating more problems. At a point, it will overwhelm the govt which is what we are seeing now.
Govt is not God. The don't have absolute power. They have limitations both in resources and manpower.
No matter how they cub it, if more criminals ar ebeen produced, it will overshadow the govt efforts.
Also, that they can herd cows and make little money from it in diginity doesn't mean it is good enough.
So a man who herd cows all his life and made meagre and then his children continued on that same path because the man never had resources to give them better or they become ma'guards or shoe makers in towns doesn't make the system any better.
With 2 kids and one wife, you are sacrificing your self-comfort for the betterment of the family's future.
Instead of the continues trend, you will start having something like -
My greatgrand father was a farmer/cow hearde/hunter/fisherman but trained his 2 kids (your own grandfathers) who later became teachers who also trained their kids (your immediate parents) who later became doctors/lawyers and now you (current generations) are now pilots/oil and gas workers etc
Do you notice the trend?

emmaodet:
There is govt inaction and there is the citizens inaction too.

Agreed, the govt failed us and is that why we should also fail ourselves? at our own end?
Moreover, if we agree the govt is bad, is that not a point we need to factor into our decision making?
I know the govt is bad, won't sponsor or support me yet i still go ahead in birthing more kids that will even cause more problems for me, what do you think about thi? is it proper?
There is no way a govt will deal with crime when the populace are creating more problems. At a point, it will overwhelm the govt which is what we are seeing now.
Govt is not God. The don't have absolute power. They have limitations both in resources and manpower.
No matter how they cub it, if more criminals ar ebeen produced, it will overshadow the govt efforts.
Also, that they can herd cows and make little money from it in diginity doesn't mean it is good enough.
So a man who herd cows all his life and made meagre and then his children continued on that same path because the man never had resources to give them better or they become ma'guards or shoe makers in towns doesn't make the system any better.
With 2 kids and one wife, you are sacrificing your self-comfort for the betterment of the family's future.
Instead of the continues trend, you will start having something like -
My greatgrand father was a farmer/cow hearde/hunter/fisherman but trained his 2 kids (your own grandfathers) who later became teachers who also trained their kids (your immediate parents) who later became doctors/lawyers and now you (current generations) are now pilots/oil and gas workers etc
Do you notice the trend?

Good point you made! I agree these issues cant be looked at in isolation. Govt and citizen inaction

emmaodet:
Useless people.

10 kids before and still have 4 more and you are driving keke Maruwa ....... That is generational poverty.

I HATE people with more than 3 kids with passion.
If you want me to be active or comment alot on nairaland, just press my activation button which is a thread about irresposible parenting or too many kids.
You will always see me there pouncing on the useless parents. I had trauma growing up and i don't pray even for my enemy to experience the poverty i passed through. Poverty kills dreams, passions, aspirations, skills, love and so many things.
Life is very sweet and beautiful. SO many things to enjoy, to experience and see yet poverty will make evey seconds, minutes, hours and days of your life to be terrible, miserable and frustrating.
All you will know and experience is hardship, struggling, bitter experiences, low self esteems etc
Parents who deliberately through their actions subjects their kids to poverty are the real SATANS

Omo, that post wey you quote shock me o. If na so Kano dey, it means I will have a lot of stories to write.

Nah! We have to start propagating the benefits of vasectomy to our men across all ethnic groups and religions.

emmaodet:
Lol...Feed our entire family? depends on what you call feeding.
Those non-balanced diet foods?
And do you actually think raising kids is all about feeding?
We have a very long way to go in this country honestly.
I am afraid of the future of Nigeria my kids will grow into.

Well-said. Imagine someone defending what has developed into a huge problem for our nation Chinese leaders formally moved against, with the one child per family policy in the past, to prevent China collapsing totally.

obeegee:
Nah nah

Those people you see begging on the roads in Abuja are mostly people displaced from conflict zones. They usually have nowhere else to go. Hence, they come to the most lucrative part of the country for begging.

Insecurity is the bigger problem. Actually the man having 17 children is good for the country. Where do you think the labor comes from to cultivate lands in the north to grow the food we all desperately need?

The Netherlands grow more food and is more productive than every country in Africa, yet has fewer hands working on its farms. More hands and legs on the farm do not equate to higher productivity.

zeyt:
This Lere thought he know something about the North but he dont. Whe you see Northerner earning less as a salary rest assured that its like hobby only stupid depends on salary. Average Norherner is a farmer and can feed your entire family all year round without reverting to salary.
In the North you see a family with over 20 children and yet they never experience deprivation and are all well brought up effectly contributing to the society.

lol

The data refutes it. Northern Nigeria has more poor people, out-of-school children and malnourished children than anywhere else in the country. Why do we have to lie publicly?

As for farming, the productivity of our farmers does not equal that of South Africa, let alone Brazil or Thailand, before we mention the US or the Netherlands. Science and engineering, not more hands and legs, lead to greater crop yield and productivity.

emmaodet:
Lol...Feed our entire family? depends on what you call feeding.
Those non-balanced diet foods?
And do you actually think raising kids is all about feeding?
We have a very long way to go in this country honestly.
I am afraid of the future of Nigeria my kids will grow into.

For the bold, there is a reason many say the ethnic makeup of the country is a hindrance to its progress. But I won't digress further.

For the rest of your post, thank you as you have done well. Just that from examples across the world, the strongest force against more children is having a high number of educated women. The more educated a society's women are, the lower its fertility rate. The other factor is prosperity - richer countries have fewer children. However, Islam is a potent force even in the face of highly educated women and prosperity. Malaysian Muslims, Singaporean Malays, Saudis, Emiratis etc., all have higher fertility rates than their non-Muslim counterparts or other countries. So even if all Northern Nigerian women are highly educated today and the society is prosperous, they will have more children per woman.

Maybe we should ask ourselves: On average, how many children does a university/polytechnic educated Yoruba Muslim woman have in her lifetime? How many children per woman does an educated Northern Nigerian Muslim woman have in her lifetime?

With the responses here, the best antidote to northern men, and even southern men to an extent, is vasectomy. Our men, especially once they attain financial stability regardless of their education level and ethnicity, begin to carry women or marry more wives. To ensure they don't have more children since resources are scarce and might not be constant, they should undergo vasectomies.

What is your concern, dirt you

emmaodet:
At the bolded ......that something looks normal or it is what they do regularly doesn't make it right nor sustainable.
It may be right or sustainable THEN BUT it is no longer SUSTAINABLE and what you are seeing now is the dividends of their long term actions.
Nigeria can not afford the population it has NOW for the resources around.
One man, One wife and 2 kids MAX is the best going forward if not, no matter what a goverment do, if the population growth rate is constantly higher than GDP growth rate, the country will always fail.

I never said it is right, but that's not the reason for the insecurities in Nigeria today. Yes, it might be a little part of it, but the major players of the insecurities in Nigeria today are the politicians and the government of the day enabling them because most of the officials in government are also part of it.

Shay una nor see the nonsense statements coming out from most of the head of the security officials in charge of security in the country? If the Nigeria people are ready for good governance, and a serious person takes over power, this insecurity wahala go reduce to it barest minimum within one year.

Gerrard59:
lol

The data refutes it. Northern Nigeria has more poor people, out-of-school children and malnourished children than anywhere else in the country. Why do we have to lie publicly?

As for farming, the productivity of our farmers does not equal that of South Africa, let alone Brazil or Thailand, before we mention the US or the Netherlands. Science and engineering, not more hands and legs, lead to greater crop yield and productivity.

Were you part of the data collection process. This unrelable stats from like of Stetisense or whatever you call it never close to anything accurate. What tools or techniques they apply was never accurate. North is still a mystry to outsiders like. Nothing you hear was about North was ever accurate. We never know you came up with your conjuctures from your comforts about the North. You never set a foot there and yet gathering data from self estimates and biases.
Does it ever occur to you it is the North feeding you fat. Northerners are survivers but you ppl are caught in between anynthing you aspire to become as society. Your productivity is unproductive in the sense you will never understand. We can survive on our own and eats what what we grow or raises but you ppl runs from and any are opposite of anything that made North stronger. I dont know the concept of bieng poor unique to you ppl. But North isnt poor in the way you think. But I can agree with you when you see North as Survivalists, Self suficient and Contented. We are not a secular society but only run by secular government. You may not understand.

Gerrard59:
The Netherlands grow more food and is more productive than every country in Africa, yet has fewer hands working on its farms. More hands and legs on the farm do not equate to higher productivity.

True true. But....

90% of nigerian farming is not mechanized.

Countries with declining populations are turning to immigration to keep the economies from declining.

My point is that A large Population should not be discouraged. It is an asset to any country that wants to develop. Harnessing that population size to make them productive is upto govt policy

Walezy2020:
as I read what U wrote something strike my mind most people are working but are underpaid imagine graduates working with a salary that's below 100k with this present economy,last week I was taking with someone he said if his salary is 200k he will die because he can't cope how will he pay rent,transport,feeding etc

I am a math teacher in a private school, the salary is 50k, as schools are on vacation, i dey site like this. The mallam there has two wives, the second wife and her three children stay in of the rooms in the uncompleted building . Just yesterday he told me to help talk to the owner of the building to consider building a zinc house in the compound for his wife and kids to move in when the house is completed. I said, ok, i will relate his concern to the owner. see young boys and older guys grinding on site for survival. Mehn, all i can say is, it is well.

This profile and spreading falsehood,Lies and terrorism is like rice and beans . May God forgive you

Mirasteel:
They are more educated than you and also try to respect people's religion.

you all should say the truth and do what needs to be done

Goverment should create a system that takes almajiri kids off the street give them rehabilitation ,vocational training, a decent home and reintergrate them into society at 18

ill say this is where the northern women and their gold have failed...they should have spear headed this at state level

society should also shame women who agree to be 2nd and 3rd wives to these men...... and the men too

Gerrard59:
For the bold, there is a reason many say the ethnic makeup of the country is a hindrance to its progress. But I won't digress further.

For the rest of your post, thank you as you have done well. Just that from examples across the world, the strongest force against more children is having a high number of educated women. The more educated a society's women are, the lower its fertility rate. The other factor is prosperity - richer countries have fewer children. However, Islam is a potent force even in the face of highly educated women and prosperity. Malaysian Muslims, Singaporean Malays, Saudis, Emiratis etc., all have higher fertility rates than their non-Muslim counterparts or other countries. So even if all Northern Nigerian women are highly educated today and the society is prosperous, they will have more children per woman.

Maybe we should ask ourselves: On average, how many children does a university/polytechnic educated Yoruba Muslim woman have in her lifetime? How many children per woman does an educated Northern Nigerian Muslim woman have in her lifetime?

Do you think that the difference between Muslim and Christian countries about fertility rates where women are equally educated boils down to whether women work and have liberties