₦airaland Forum

GracieX3:
How legal was abortion in the 60s and did the same black people have access to it. Abortion was not legal and so the numbers for it would be down.

This is the same racist argument that glorifies a time when black people didn't have rights and were oppressed.

Ok, smart argument here. But I presented other arrangements such as the rich state poor state argument. Let me see how you go about defending that

GracieX3:
Ah cococandy. Some men too are pro-choice

Yes but they won’t argue with you. The ones that argue are the pro-forced birth ones. Those ones deserve silence

You know how your party believes that after birth abortion is a thing?

Don’t underestimate me. You’re not too old to be aborted now according to your party beliefs.

Lower your gaze when you speak to me.

basilico:
Abortion is not a method of family planning.
There are at least 12 well known family planning methods plus abstinence.
I don't talk about such to my daughters to be honest,but they know if they got pregnant they wouldn't be forced into marriages or abortion. We would help raise the child.
It's up to them to be responsible. We won't be chasing diapers when we head to fifties.

or

GracieX3:
Lol....if you are using the data of state by state abortion, did you consider that the number of abortions is also factored by where it is legal? That is why i stated that abortion is also.factored by environment....

See how you twist data to support your ignorance?

And also, no one is stating that poor people must abort.

I knew you will say this, but this is a very terrible argument. Here is the reason.
Even if we go back to 2021 when abortion was legal in every state, we don't see poor states leading.

Let's look at the abortion rate in 2021
Highest rates
District of Columbia → 21.8
Florida → ~18–20
Georgia → ~16–18
New York City → ~16–17
Illinois → ~15–16
Colorado → ~15–16
You actually see the poorer states having the lowest abortions
Lower-rate states
Alabama → ~8–9
Kentucky → ~7–8
Arkansas → ~7–8
South Dakota → ~6–7
West Virginia → ~6–7
Idaho → ~6–7

So do you see that your argument is dead on arrival?

tctrills:
Ok, smart argument here. But I presented other arrangements such as the rich state poor state argument. Let me see how you go about defending that

Abortion numbers are also affected by access to abortion......states who legalise abortion will have higher numbers of abortion.

Of course, backwards, broke azz religious red states ban access to abortion

GracieX3:
Are you aware that spontaneous abortions are the most common type of abortion? So nature is the best murderer. Not so good if you believe that a creator is behind nature......

I could defend abortion in the instance of choice but I wouldn't waste my time if you are arguing on religious basis

This is not a very smart argument. Most people die a natural death, this doesn't stop murder from being a crime.
You seem to be arguing that because nature is responsible for abortion, it's ok to kill unborns.
That argument is one kind.
Nature is responsible for the death of most cancer patients so do we now go about killing cancer patients.

This is a first one for me, I have never heard this argument in defense of abortion before.

But it's funny, I give that to you.

tctrills:
I knew you will say this, but this is a very terrible argument. Here is the reason.
Even if we go back to 2021 when abortion was legal in every state, we don't see poor states leading.

Let's look at the abortion rate in 2021
Highest rates
District of Columbia → 21.8
Florida → ~18–20
Georgia → ~16–18
New York City → ~16–17
Illinois → ~15–16
Colorado → ~15–16
You actually see the poorer states having the lowest abortions
Lower-rate states
Alabama → ~8–9
Kentucky → ~7–8
Arkansas → ~7–8
South Dakota → ~6–7
West Virginia → ~6–7
Idaho → ~6–7

So do you see that your argument is dead on arrival?

There are many ways to ban or restrict something.

The clearest way is to ban it with federal/state law.

Another way is to restrict funding or create social pressure.

How many abortion clinics would you see in a deeply religious state? These poorer states are usually religious.

This is why I mentioned environment and finance affecting abortions in the first place.

GracieX3:
It was a nonsense explanation and you know it.

Ok, I give it to you let's call it nonsense so we don't get tired up in so many debates. I concede to this so we can face the abortion topic without distractions

GracieX3:
There are many ways to ban or restrict something.

The clearest way is to ban it with federal/state law.

Another way is to restrict funding or create social pressure.

How many abortion clinics would you see in a deeply religious state? These poorer states are usually religious.

This is why I mentioned environment and finance affecting abortions in the first place.

Before 2021, there was no state law banning abortion. Abortion was legal in all 50 states. The federal law had a sweeping effect.

You are just making my point.
More money seems to equal more abortions.
Abortion was completely legal and yet the very poor states had very low figures.

Again, you make my point about culture when you say that you may not find abortion clinics in religious states. But you will find them in places where the culture generally accepts them.

GracieX3:
Abortion numbers are also affected by access to abortion......states who legalise abortion will have higher numbers of abortion.

Of course, backwards, broke azz religious red states ban access to abortion

Did you even read what you posted? It states that abortion bans affect low income women. This means that richer women are much more able to carry out abortions.
Just read what you got from Google.

From the photo you posted, it shows that poverty makes it harder to have an abortion not the other way round.

So women are not having abortions because they are very poor, they are having it because they want to murder their baby. Simple

tctrills:
This is not a very smart argument. Most people die a natural death, this doesn't stop murder from being a crime.
You seem to be arguing that because nature is responsible for abortion, it's ok to kill unborns.
That argument is one kind.
Nature is responsible for the death of most cancer patients so do we now go about killing cancer patients.

This is a first one for me, I have never heard this argument in defense of abortion before.

But it's funny, I give that to you.

No.....I am not arguing the problem of evil as it relates to a religious defence against abortion.

The main defence for abortion is that a woman should have choice within the first trimester. Abortion is the last option.

This is why sex education and also counselling are important but your Conservatives are fond of defending such programs as it relates to mental health or sex education.

If a woman cannot take care of a child that she will give birth to in 9 months time, she has options-

1. Give the child to parents or siblings when born.
2. Give the child to an orphanage when born
3. Abort the pregnancy.

Guess which party has not helped with both options 1 and 2 by rejecting policies threat will give benefits that will help those raising young children?

tctrills:
Did you even read what you posted? It states that abortion bans affect low income women. This means that richer women are much more able to carry out abortions.
Just read what you got from Google.

There are low income women in rich states.

Stop twisting things

GracieX3:
There are low income women in rich states.

Stop twisting things

But this is not making sense, we will expect low income women in poor states to seek more abortions not the other way round.

tctrills:
Before 2021, there was no state law banning abortion. Abortion was legal in all 50 states. The federal law had a sweeping effect.

You are just making my point.
More money seems to equal more abortions.
Abortion was completely legal and yet the very poor states had very low figures.

Again, you make my point about culture when you say that you may not find abortion clinics in religious states. But you will find them in places where the culture generally accepts them.

And the culture is liberal or progressive culture not black culture.

Religious states are also poor states.

tctrills:
But this is not making sense, we will expect low income women in poor states to seek more abortions not the other way round.

A low income woman is a low income person whether in a rich or poor state.

The difference is that in a rich state, she has access to abortion.

GracieX3:
And the culture is liberal or progressive culture not black culture.

Religious states are also poor states.

Blacks in the US vote liberal or progressive more than any other race. Blacks are 90% liberal.
So clearly, liberal culture is a huge part of black culture. You can't take that away.

In fact, without the black community, the Dems with lose every federal election in the US

GracieX3:
A low income woman is a low income person whether in a rich or poor state.

The difference is that in a rich state, she has access to abortion.

This argument is looking one kind. But let's move on
Can you state a few specific reasons why a poor woman in the US will want to kill her unborn but a rich person would not?

Please educate me on this

cococandy:
You know how your party believes that after birth abortion is a thing?

Don’t underestimate me. You’re not too old to be aborted now according to your party beliefs.

Lower your gaze when you speak to me.

Democrats are the ones who want abortion third trimester . Call the fetus a clump of cells. Call the fetus unviable.

It's democrats who blocked a common sense bill.. Whether the due standard of care is applied to a baby who survives an abortion. The republican wanted mandatory care of the child as a human being . Democrats voted no almost to a man. Translation. If an unwabted baby survives ,kill it . Postbirth abortion or murder?

tctrills:
Abi
If the more than 6 trillion black Américai has gotten in entitlement benefits changed nothing, that shows this is not a money problem

Now that we are on abortion , Out of that $6 Trillion exclude planned Parenthood portion . 🙂🙂

GracieX3:
No.....I am not arguing the problem of evil as it relates to a religious defence against abortion.

The main defence for abortion is that a woman should have choice within the first trimester. Abortion is the last option.

This is why sex education and also counselling are important but your Conservatives are fond of defending such programs as it relates to mental health or sex education.

If a woman cannot take care of a child that she will give birth to in 9 months time, she has options-

1. Give the child to parents or siblings when born.
2. Give the child to an orphanage when born
3. Abort the pregnancy.

Guess which party has not helped with both options 1 and 2 by rejecting policies threat will give benefits that will help those raising young children?

Let me start with your last points. Let's even say the republican party is against options 1 and 2, but I can clearly tell you that as of today, those 2 options are fully available to every woman in the US.
You don't need the help or legislation of government to find parents to adopt your baby. The waiting list is so long that there is always someone to adopt your children.

Now you said you support women to have a choice to kill their unborns in early pregnancy. Please explain why. And at what stage of the pregnancy should this killing be stopped?

basilico:
Now that we are on abortion , Out of that $6 Trillion exclude planned Parenthood portion . 🙂🙂

Do you mean planned abortions because that name planned parenthood is a trick.

tctrills:
Blacks in the US vote liberal or progressive more than any other race. Blacks are 90% liberal.
So clearly, liberal culture is a huge part of black culture. You can't take that away.

In fact, without the black community, the Dems with lose every federal election in the US

Black people in Nigeria are Conservative.

There are Black Conservatives in the USA as well.

What you can measure is that Black people in USA vote democrat. Democratic party.

Democrat is not the same as progressive.

Many Black people in the USA vote democrats mainly because there is racism in the Republican party, and the Republican party does not like diversity

tctrills:
Let me start with your last points. Let's even say the republican party is against options 1 and 2, but I can clearly tell you that as of today, those 2 options are fully available to every woman in the US.
You don't need the help or legislation of government to find parents to adopt your baby. The waiting list is so long that there is always someone to adopt your children.

Now you said you support women to have a choice to kill their unborns in early pregnancy. Please explain why. And at what stage of the pregnancy should this killing be stopped?

Stop engaging in lies. Go and check how orphanages are underfunded. Go and see how expensive it is to raise young children in the USA. Go and see how messed up the foster care system is.

Do you know how many serial killers come from messed up parents who should have aborted them?

GracieX3:
Black people in Nigeria are Conservative.

There are Black Conservatives in the USA as well.

What you can measure is that Black people in USA vote democrat. Democratic party.

Democrat is not the same as progressive.

Many Black people in the USA vote democrats mainly because there is racism in the Republican party, and the Republican party does not like diversity

Lol
Recently, the republican party was celebrating 16% approval in the black community.
You are completely wrong about racism in the republican party but let's assume you are correct so we don't change topic. Blacks have been given 90% of their votes to the Dems since 1960s. A community doing this for over 60 years, that's called culture.

So no matter the excuse we can say that blacks in the US have a very liberal culture that is killing their unborns at a rate never seen in history

GracieX3:
This is the simple minded, narrow vision of the religious Conservative.

Please, there are many orphanages full to the brim with children. From babies to teenagers. Those looking to adopt have many choices.

However, typical Conservatives do not care about children but they want them to be born. They prefer to cut benefits that enable women raise children.

I am pro choice and not pro abortion. Abortion is the last option. It should be an option.

Abortion should be a last resort. Pregnancy should also be a last resort given 12 ways to prevent it minus not having sex.
Most of the abortions are from sanr knowledgeable women , (many married too).
Grandparents with an iota of decency won't have their grandchildren in orphanages.
One reason women abort is fear of the unknown, rejection and career . Some don't desire having fallen twin soldiers or a protruding belly at early stages of life . Looks matter more in their career.
I think it was posted here the families hoping to adopt is almost equal to the number of abortions . I know only about 25K were adopted last year against 1.3 million abortions .

Govt should not fund elective abortions is my stand. Ideally abortion should be after the woman has undergone unbiased professional counselling from pro life and abortion advocates respectively.

Joke of the century.

basilico:
The republican wanted mandatory care of the child as a human being .

GracieX3:
Stop engaging in lies. Go and check how orphanages are underfunded. Go and see how expensive it is to raise young children in the USA. Go and see how messed up the foster care system is.

Do you know how many serial killers come from messed up parents who should have aborted them?

Let's go by the facts. Please fact check anything I say say below.

Estimates suggest there are roughly 1 to 2 million couples waiting to adopt in the United States at any given time.

This shows that their are 30 to 1. That's 30 parents to one child.

Please fact check.

Again you seem to be suggesting that to reduce serial killers, we should abort every child from messed up homes.

That's licence to kill 75% of black kids. It doesn't and shouldn't make sense.

Your life should not be taken away just because your parents are messed up.

You should be taken from them and given to better parents but your life should be spared.

Let's not kill people because of the sins of their parents

basilico:
Abortion should be a last resort. Pregnancy should also be a last resort given 12 ways to prevent it minus not having sex.
Most of the abortions are from sanr knowledgeable women , (many married too).
Grandparents with an iota of decency won't have their grandchildren in orphanages.
One reason women abort is fear of the unknown, rejection and career . Some don't desire having fallen twins or a protruding belly at early stages of life . Looks matter more in their career.
I think it was posted here the families hoping to adopt is almost equal to the number of abortions . I know only about 25K were adopted last year against 1.3 million abortions .

Govt should not fund elective abortions is my stand. Ideally abortion should be after the woman has undergone unbiased professional counselling from pro life and abortion advocates respectively.

Unfortunately, your republican party does not believe in sex education to prevent unwanted pregnancy.

tctrills:
Let's go by the facts. Please fact check anything I say say below.

Estimates suggest there are roughly 1 to 2 million couples waiting to adopt in the United States at any given time.

This shows that their are 30 to 1. That's 30 parents to one child.

Please fact check.

Again you seem to be suggesting that to reduce serial killers, we should abort every child from messed up homes.

That's licence to kill 75% of black kids. It doesn't and shouldn't make sense.

Your life should not be taken away just because your parents are messed up.

You should be taken from them and given to better parents but your life should be spared.

Let's not kill people because of the sins of their parents

Nonsense

GracieX3:
Nonsense

Have you heard of Safe Haven Laws in the US?
Once you hand your baby to a staff member at a designated location (hospital, fire station, or police station), your legal responsibility ends immediately.

So you are not forced to care for the child if you don't want to.
The excuse that the mother is left without option is false.

Let's face the fact, mothers who kill their babies are murderous and wicked. Simple.

99% of them have no good reason to do so.

tctrills:
Have you heard of Safe Haven Laws in the US?
Once you hand your baby to a staff member at a designated location (hospital, fire station, or police station), your legal responsibility ends immediately.

So you are not forced to care for the child if you don't want to.
The excuse that the mother is left without option is false.

Let's face the fact, mothers who kill their babies are murderous and wicked. Simple.

99% of them have no good reason to do so.

And dumping the child to a stranger who will not likely love them as a parent is better? F4cking up the child for life is better huh?