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Everyone is on the web and no one bothers to lean into something as useful as low level programming, I've come to realise that people have this unnecessary fear of the C programming language even though it's extremely easy to learn and use.

One would think people who do actual stuff like kernel/operating system development, driver and module programming or just anything outside of web development would dominate tech conversations but it's almost always web bros screaming at each other at the top of their lungs while no one actually listens (see twitter).

Why is this so? The issue of financial instability is not an excuse here because you're not actively purchasing hardware like the guys into IOT or robotics, all you need is a C compiler (or Rust, Odin, Zig or whatever you're using) and maybe a VM (if you're developing os breaking software)

Good for hobby projects - people who are hoping to dedicate time towards something that will pay the bills will naturally gravitate towards web and mobile - that's where the demand is.

Just finished writing a scheduler for a no name company based out of EU.

I did these in my early days before switching to web

Stephen0mozzy:
Good for hobby projects - people who are hoping to dedicate time towards something that will pay the bills will naturally gravitate towards web and mobile - that's where the demand is.

Are you tripping?? Who says systems does not pay ??


I don nearly show you my paycheck because of this.

Kaczynski:
Are you tripping?? Who says systems does not pay ??


I don nearly show you my paycheck because of this.

Hehe, keep the paycheck boss.
The statement is not whether it pays - of xourse it pays, there's low supply of the engineers in that field to service the small demands for it.

The statement said - how many opportunities are there for system programmers? What's the barrier to entry for entry level/juniors?

Kaczynski:
Are you tripping?? Who says systems does not pay ??


I don nearly show you my paycheck because of this.

I'm curious, what kind of companies offer systems level roles and what are you usually expected to do


Also I'm assuming the scheduler you were talking about is an OS scheduler

Pretty impressive work

Stephen0mozzy:
Hehe, keep the paycheck boss.
The statement is not whether it pays - of xourse it pays, there's low supply of the engineers in that field to service the small demands for it.

The statement said - how many opportunities are there for system programmers? What's the barrier to entry for entry level/juniors?

openings choke from banks, telcos, big cloud vendors, a few platform shops, oil & gas, embedded firms and government contractors. jobs titles be like sre, software engineer ( systems), devops.

barrier for juniors is high. you’ll need learn c, c++ and rust with go, than basic stuffs like os internals, gdb , perf, tcp ip and storage stuffs.

falsenull:
I'm curious, what kind of companies offer systems level roles and what are you usually expected to do


Also I'm assuming the scheduler you were talking about is an OS scheduler

Pretty impressive work

Kaczynski:
openings choke from banks, telcos, big cloud vendors, a few platform shops, oil & gas, embedded firms and government contractors. jobs titles be like sre, software engineer ( systems), devops.

barrier for juniors is high. you’ll need learn c, c++ and rust with go, than basic stuffs like os internals, gdb , perf, tcp ip and storage stuffs.

no , it's a write task scheduler for a gpu .

Take a look at my post for future system engineer everything is explained simple . We have the system apps , kernels ,driver and utilities etc. AI can build an operating system but you need to know the basics. No jobs about it in Nigeria because of competition in global markets.
https://www.nairaland.com/7985079/creating-operating-systems-using-material

Honestly, a lot of it comes down to the "feedback loop." Web dev gives you that instant dopamine hit, you change a line of CSS, and the button turns blue immediately. With low-level stuff, you can spend three hours debugging a segfault just to realize you messed up a pointer arithmetic operation. It’s a different kind of mental endurance.

The "fear" usually isn't about the syntax; C is actually pretty tiny. The fear is about manual memory management. Most people starting out today are taught in environments where the "garbage collector" handles the mess, so having to manually malloc and free feels like juggling chainsaws.

Also, the job market plays a huge role. Bootcamps churn out web devs in three months because the barrier to entry is perceived as lower, and there’s a massive corporate appetite for React components. Systems programming usually requires a deeper understanding of computer architecture, which just takes more time to bake.

That said, there's nothing quite like the feeling of writing something that runs directly on the hardware. It’s definitely a quieter corner of the internet, but usually a much more interesting one.

Alphabyte3:
Take a look at my post for future system engineer everything is explained simple . We have the system apps , kernels ,driver and utilities etc. AI can build an operating system but you need to know the basics. No jobs about it in Nigeria because of competition in global markets.
https://www.nairaland.com/7985079/creating-operating-systems-using-material

Use ai to build an os and post link to repo .

Kaczynski:
Use ai to build an os and post link to repo .

Files by files with methods by methods and class by class individually. Linux Torvalds use AI to add some lines of codes in Linux. It is possible I am not saying generating all the codes at once just know the correct architecture.

I'm here

What's the deal?

Bring it on

OK oooooooooooppppooo

falsenull:
Everyone is on the web and no one bothers to lean into something as useful as low level programming, I've come to realise that people have this unnecessary fear of the C programming language even though it's extremely easy to learn and use.

One would think people who do actual stuff like kernel/operating system development, driver and module programming or just anything outside of web development would dominate tech conversations but it's almost always web bros screaming at each other at the top of their lungs while no one actually listens (see twitter).

Why is this so? The issue of financial instability is not an excuse here because you're not actively purchasing hardware like the guys into IOT or robotics, all you need is a C compiler (or Rust, Odin, Zig or whatever you're using) and maybe a VM (if you're developing os breaking software)

I started with C. And it landed me no job

i did this with turbo assembly language while at school.

i am now a webapp developer, however, i still found myself building windows OS DLLs, netdruino IOT, ESP32, rasperry Pi (when I was new to IOT).

Kaczynski:
Are you tripping?? Who says systems does not pay ??


I don nearly show you my paycheck because of this.

Bro anytime your company has an open role please contact me.
The reason people drift away is because the opportunities are slimmer

Because you can't freelance with that skill. Web fetches quick money even without a full time job.
Low level is done by big corporations and u need to land such job before u cam even make money

If in Nigeria I think the reason not is because we don’t have as much need for systems programming in Nigeria as compared to other parts of the world, our tech economy is mostly consuming and not engineering… it is a demanding field

Working in between systems and production environments today although demanding I enjoy it, I enjoy being close to the hardware

Kaczynski:
Just finished writing a scheduler for a no name company based out of EU.

you dey lie

who writes scheduler no dey announce am online

I want to learn this system hardware and stuffs I have a high end laptop I use for my davinchi editing which is also good for coding and stuff where do I start for basics

You should not expect opportunities for system programming to come like web

So most system programmers are busy building solutions that are unheard of ..

The thing is that entry level is not as easy as web that's why it looks like web is more popular

The opportunity for system programming to web programming is like 7 to 1

There are more opportunities for system programmers than web or others but you have to be extremely good unlike web programming that can there's room for error and mistakes

Stephen0mozzy:
Hehe, keep the paycheck boss.
The statement is not whether it pays - of xourse it pays, there's low supply of the engineers in that field to service the small demands for it.

The statement said - how many opportunities are there for system programmers? What's the barrier to entry for entry level/juniors?

Raypawer:
You should not expect opportunities for system programming to come like web

So most system programmers are busy building solutions that are unheard of ..

The thing is that entry level is not as easy as web that's why it looks like web is more popular

The opportunity for system programming to web programming is like 7 to 1

There are more opportunities for system programmers than web or others but you have to be extremely good unlike web programming that can there's room for error and mistakes

Exactly my point Chief. See the bolded reference in your statement.

Just to add my 2 cents.
Robotics is bigger than AI but no one hypes it.
IoT devices are a bigger subset than AI. Acurast is taking advantage of it slowly. That's where C and C++ reign. If you want jobs you can do yourself in your spare time with peace if mind, look for embedded systems programming. Web Dev won't give you time for family and all that stuff.
At least that is why I believe C and C++ are regaining interest.

falsenull:
Everyone is on the web and no one bothers to lean into something as useful as low level programming, I've come to realise that people have this unnecessary fear of the C programming language even though it's extremely easy to learn and use.

One would think people who do actual stuff like kernel/operating system development, driver and module programming or just anything outside of web development would dominate tech conversations but it's almost always web bros screaming at each other at the top of their lungs while no one actually listens (see twitter).

Why is this so? The issue of financial instability is not an excuse here because you're not actively purchasing hardware like the guys into IOT or robotics, all you need is a C compiler (or Rust, Odin, Zig or whatever you're using) and maybe a VM (if you're developing os breaking software)

People follow opportunities. Passion doesn't pay bills.

Which Nigerian billionaire is visionary enough to invest in systems development?

emekad2:
Just to add my 2 cents.
Robotics is bigger than AI but no one hypes it.
IoT devices are a bigger subset than AI. Acurast is taking advantage of it slowly. That's where C and C++ reign. If you want jobs you can do yourself in your spare time with peace if mind, look for embedded systems programming. Web Dev won't give you time for family and all that stuff.
At least that is why I believe C and C++ are regaining interest.

Isn't it a bit misleading to say IoT or Robotics are "bigger" than AI as if they are separate silos?
Modern robotics and IoT are increasingly becoming the "body" for AI's "brain." They are converging rather than competing.

On peace of mind, another angle to this is if you ship a bug in Web Dev, you push a fix in five minutes. If you ship a bug in the firmware of 50,000 smart toasters, you might have a multi-million dollar recall on your hands .

falsenull:
L
I'm curious, what kind of companies offer systems level roles and what are you usually expected to do
Also I'm assuming the scheduler you were talking about is an OS scheduler

Pretty impressive work

It's easy to get stuck in your career as a systems engineer. There are few seniors that can mentor you and even fewer projects to sharpen your skills.

This just shows mostbof our billionaires aren't really visionary. They just have access to funds. They follow the path of least resistance in choosing where to invest. They're not takers.

Yet that moniepoint guy has the audacity to talk.down on the nation.