₦airaland Forum

kayjordan:
That definitely would tell you the reality of a natural world; not a superficial world you paint.

You want to talk about the REAL world?
Think about what condition makes people do what is wrong not just the wrong they committed.
Tinubu's child will never steal from a supermarket because the father has all the money needed to buy whatever the child wants but when you catch a pauper and sentence the fatherless to prison how does that make your world real?🙂

I understand the empathy in your analysis.

If you ask a NATURAL BEING why he stole - given the fact that you KNOW he would lie - it would be a fantastic way to release more bandits into the society.

If JW members were police officers, criminals would be glad to be arrested by you.

Your Tinubu’s son VS Poor man's analogy - shows a man's condition is to be blamed rather than the person himself - while this is empathetic - it doesn't address the true nature of man which you claim that Man "planted" in himself - and that nature is GREED.

That's why I mentioned earlier that - you can't change man's nature; you can only regulate it with constitutional laws and the enforcement agencies.

Even Adam and Eve, broke the law - and God didn't show mercy like a JW - he punished them accordingly.

MaxInDHouse:
You want to talk about the REAL world?
Think about what condition makes people do what is wrong not just the wrong they committed.
Tinubu's child will never steal from a supermarket because the father has all the money needed to buy whatever the child wants but when you catch a pauper and sentence the fatherless to prison how does that make your world real?🙂

kayjordan:
If you ask a NATURAL BEING why he stole - given the fact that you KNOW he would lie - it would be a fantastic way to release more bandits into the society. If JW members were police officers, criminals would be glad to be arrested by you.

This is where WISDOM comes in!

Many Jehovah's Witnesses were into all these criminal activities before they dedicated their lives to our God and changed completely.
The question is:
Were they arrested? NO!
Were they punished? NO!
So what changed old personality?
It's by reasoning with them using God's word not CCTV or police.
Today most law enforcement agents do wonder how thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses gather without a single security personnel watching over us.
Well the answer is simple:
We are walking by faith not by sight! 2Corinthians 5:7🙂

kayjordan:
Even Adam and Eve, broke the law - and God didn't show mercy like a JW - he punished them accordingly.

Obviously you don't understand the story of Adam and Eve so you need to be enlightened!
Adam is the RICHEST human on planet earth married to the most beautiful girl ever, he has the prospect of indirectly controlling the planet as the one who knew the names of all the creatures both great and small, he had perfect health and all the time needed since he doesn't have to think about time.
So what is the reason why he rebelled against his God and father?
He wanted to RULE over other creatures while he becomes Independent with no one to direct him.

God has warned him not to do that but since he wants to know whether it's possible for him to cease living God let him see the consequences of rebellion.

How do you compare a pauper to Adam?
It's like comparing Tinubu's son to an homeless, fatherless and hopeless child.
Ọmọ you are far away from wisdom!🙂

There is one simple truth I always want to emphasize on; Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

My point to OP is, You could have changed your heading to "Worship Nature" instead of the "Worship Devil" headline.

One thing i know is that morality always stems from the heart whether you are a good or bad person, there is always an atom of morality embedded in each and everyone.

The world has being in existence way back before man was created, if you check when God created Adam, He gave him all instructions that a father needs to give to a son, told him what is evil and bad but HE never took away adams free will.

Man's free will is what is termed in today's world as ENLIGHTENMENT.

Wisdom is not found in having all the answers but in having an open heart to learning how to discern and apply accumulated knowledge to make sound judgments and navigate complex life situations.

You asked: How do you compare a pauper to RICH Adam?

ANS: By comparing a petty thief that stole tomatoes at a market - to a wealthy politician that stole billions of naira from a government's treasury.

You stated JW members are admired for not having security personnel follow them - why should security personnel follow you in the first place?

Now let me give you wisdom: "Man have insatiable wants" - man can never be fully satisfied - you must continue to buy food, clothing and provide shelter for yourself - even after retirement, fear will control you and you will still want more security for the future.

No matter how rich you are - if money doesn't make you ask for more - then it would be another desire that will.

Adam was rich as you quoted - but he wanted more - he wanted POWER!

MaxInDHouse:
This is where WISDOM comes in!

Many Jehovah's Witnesses were into all these criminal activities before they dedicated their lives to our God and changed completely.
The question is:
Were they arrested? NO!
Were they punished? NO!
So what changed old personality?
It's by reasoning with them using God's word not CCTV or police.
Today most law enforcement agents do wonder how thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses gather without a single security personnel watching over us.
Well the answer is simple:
We are walking by faith not by sight! 2Corinthians 5:7🙂


Obviously you don't understand the story of Adam and Eve so you need to be enlightened!
Adam is the RICHEST human on planet earth married to the most beautiful girl ever, he has the prospect of indirectly controlling the planet as the one who knew the names of all the creatures both great and small, he had perfect health and all the time needed since he doesn't have to think about time.
So what is the reason why he rebelled against his God and father?
He wanted to RULE over other creatures while he becomes Independent with no one to direct him.

God has warned him not to do that but since he wants to know whether it's possible for him to cease living God let him see the consequences of rebellion.

How do you compare a pauper to Adam?
It's like comparing Tinubu's son to an homeless, fatherless and hopeless child.
Ọmọ you are far away from wisdom!🙂

This is why Jehovah's Witnesses have peace in our gathering while all others gather in fear! Isaiah 65:13-14🙂

Whoever is not satisfied with what he has doesn't qualify to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses:

For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things. But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains. 1Timothy 6:7-10


Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.” Hebrew 13:5

That is how Judas Iscariot a sound Christian lost everything for not being one of Jehovah's Witnesses!🙂

kayjordan:
"Man have insatiable wants" - man can never be fully satisfied - you must continue to buy food, clothing and provide shelter for yourself - even after retirement, fear will control you and you will still want more security for the future. No matter how rich you are - if money doesn't make you ask for more - then it would be another desire that will. Adam was rich as you quoted - but he wanted more - he wanted POWER!

I acknowledge your submission and observation.

While it's true that a lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean "NO EVIDENCE" - it's largely about consolidating the "facts" with our limited understanding - what would a mere man literally believe in - "paper" or "air"?

The clear observation on the article's title is welcome - but the word usage serves a functional purpose. Humans in modern societies, certainly have a problem differentiating between "nature" and "sin" - so by associating the two words, it creates a unified understanding thereof.

Yes, there's an atom of morality in everyone - that is what we refer to as the "angels" and "demons" - which is believed to reside in each person. Situations in life decide which to switch to and which to provoke - it's human nature.

Free will which you have described as ENLIGHTENMENT is correct. Science introduced proper education to humans - in a bid to upgrade the human thinking and make humans work with reasoning rather than imagination.

WISDOM doesn't mean "no it all" - as you implied - and you also say it's application - be it accumulating knowledge or a willingness to learn - helps us solve problems - A FACTUAL point you've made - it's therefore the reason man has been "enlightened" as you noted, to make the world a better place - be it for the "world" at large or for "self" - for nature grants man the "will" to make a choice.

martinskelly:
There is one simple truth I always want to emphasize on; Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

My point to OP is, You could have changed your heading to "Worship Nature" instead of the "Worship Devil" headline.

One thing i know is that morality always stems from the heart whether you are a good or bad person, there is always an atom of morality embedded in each and everyone.

The world has being in existence way back before man was created, if you check when God created Adam, He gave him all instructions that a father needs to give to a son, told him what is evil and bad but HE never took away adams free will.

Man's free will is what is termed in today's world as ENLIGHTENMENT.

Wisdom is not found in having all the answers but in having an open heart to learning how to discern and apply accumulated knowledge to make sound judgments and navigate complex life situations.

Your Bible chapter and verses simply mean - "Money is the root of all evils".

From a spiritual and philosophical angle, man must be content with "all" he has - but the nature of man is a "wild beast" - that if not controlled, would lead him/her to steal or sin generally.

For this is the reason complex man is tamed by laws. The beauty I want you to appreciate is not the "act" itself which is the "condition" you earlier mentioned - but the "engine" behind the act - is what you should appreciate.

A man's brain is fixed and molded. Even alcoholics that go to rehab, can return to alcoholics once again; even a born again Christian that gave his life to Christ, can return to a sinner once again.

MaxInDHouse:
This is why Jehovah's Witnesses have peace in our gathering while all others gather in fear! Isaiah 65:13-14🙂

Whoever is not satisfied with what he has doesn't qualify to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses:

For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things. But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains. 1Timothy 6:7-10


Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.” Hebrew 13:5

That is how Judas Iscariot who was a sound Christian loose everything for not being one of Jehovah's Witnesses!🙂

kayjordan:
Your Bible chapter and verses simply mean - "Money is the root of all evils".

WRONG!
Read again:

For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things. But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains. 1Timothy 6:7-10

Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.” Hebrew 13:5

It's not money but the love of money

kayjordan:
A man's brain is fixed and molded. Even alcoholics that go to rehab, can return to alcoholics once again; even a born again Christian that gave his life to Christ, can return to a sinner once again.

Such a person never knew why he went to rehab in the first place!

I grew up hearing my grandma calling my own senior sister "jóo-jóo" which in my language means "hot-hot" though my sister doesn't like it but i just love the way grandma always repeat it like a song. So i asked grandma the meaning and she told me that while my sister was about 11 months old she loves playing with candles but grandma always run to protect her from getting her fingers burn yet my sister will cry and cry because she was deprived of playing with candles so one day my dad told grandma to allow her play with the candles for them to see what exactly draws her attention to candles.

They later discovered that it's the light that's attracting her as it looks like a flower so they allowed her to touch the light and she burnt her first finger.

From that day the little girl started calling candles "jóo-jóo"

Do you think she still needs anyone to tell her not to play with candle lights?

Well if someone doesn't know why he's in the rehabilitation center the effort of all those who took him there is wasted!🙂

Interesting illustration!

Certainly, people will learn from their mistakes because life is a teacher from a philosophical perspective.

The funny thing - some people often forget what they learn - NATURE.

When one doesn't know why he's in a rehab center - you said: the effort of all those who took him there is wasted - is synonymous to a "wasted time trying to convert a Supermarket Theif".

MaxInDHouse:
Such a person never knew why he went to rehab in the first place!

I grew up hearing my grandma calling my own senior sister "jóo-jóo" which in my language means "hot-hot" though my sister doesn't like it but i just love the way grandma always repeat it like a song. So i asked grandma the meaning and she told me that while my sister was about 11 months old she loves playing with candles but grandma always run to protect her from getting her fingers burn yet my sister will cry and cry because she was deprived of playing with candles so one day my dad told grandma to allow her play with the candles for them to see what exactly draws her attention to candles.

They later discovered that it's the light that's attracting her as it looks like a flower so they allowed her to touch the light and she burnt her first finger.

From that day the little girl started calling candles "jóo-jóo"

Do you think she still needs anyone to tell her not to play with candle lights?

Well if someone doesn't know why he's in the rehabilitation center the effort of all those who took him there is wasted!🙂

It wasn't an illustration but real life story.
We see people the way God see them so when i said many Jehovah's Witnesses were once hardened criminals it doesn't mean all those who passed through our spiritual hospitals responded positively to treatment most of them actually returned to their former ways of life but then they have had a fair share of what God promised all humans which is opportunity to get help. So it's no longer God's fault or nature but the type of person they chose to be after having the chance to make a wise choice!🙂

kayjordan:
Interesting illustration!
Certainly, people will learn from their mistakes because life is a teacher from a philosophical perspective.
The funny thing - some people often forget what they learn - NATURE.
When one doesn't know why he's in a rehab center - you said: the effort of all those who took him there is wasted - is synonymous to a "wasted time trying to convert a Supermarket Theif".

Whatever man achieves on earth be it money, houses and cars is not meant to be taken out of the planet - these are earthly materials and not spiritual matters - so what is fundamentally wrong is discouraging acquisitions - for whatever you acquire is for your comfort here on earth - not in heaven - if your desire craves for more wealth - it is for your comfort.

What about one who acquires riches on earth and uses it to help others? Has one done wrong for chasing wealth to help mankind?

MaxInDHouse:
WRONG!
Read again:

For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things. But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains. 1Timothy 6:7-10

Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.” Hebrew 13:5

It's not money but the love of money

kayjordan:
What about one who acquires riches on earth and uses it to help others? Has one done wrong for chasing wealth to help mankind?

There is a difference between hardwork and desperation for wealth. Satan is watching each person to know our weaknesses {1Peter 5:8} what did Judas Iscariot said when a lady poured a costly perfume on Jesus' feet?

He said such a thing should be sold so that the proceeds could be used to help the poor. John 12:3-5

Lesson!
God feeds the birds of the air without your help so He knows what to do regarding the poor there is no need to hide under the pretext of helping the poor while you are in love with material riches! Luke 18:18-23

It's a true life story illustration you gave.

The "unconverted" converts you mentioned, had a choice to face reality and stop self-deceit !

When one knows a certain lifestyle described as "wise" is not sustainable, they drift.

One thing one should know is that, being "Holy" isn't sustainable but being "natural" is permanent.

MaxInDHouse:
It wasn't an illustration but real life story.
We see people the way God see them so when i said many Jehovah's Witnesses were once hardened criminals it doesn't mean all those who passed through our spiritual hospitals responded positively to treatment most of them actually returned to their former ways of life but then they have had a fair share of what God promised all humans which is opportunity to get help. So it's no longer God's fault or nature but the type of person they chose to be after having the chance to make a wise choice!🙂

In other words people should not help the needy if they have the capacity to?

Also what should be ones motive to work hard and become rich?

MaxInDHouse:
There is a difference between hardwork and desperation for wealth. Satan is watching each person to know our weaknesses {1Peter 5:8} what did Judas Iscariot said when a lady poured a costly perfume on Jesus' feet?

He said such a thing should be sold so that the proceeds could be used to help the poor. John 12:3-5

Lesson!
God feeds the birds of the air without your help so He knows what to do regarding the poor there is no need to hide under the pretext of helping the poor while you are in love with material riches! Luke 18:18-23

kayjordan:
One thing one should know is that, being "Holy" isn't sustainable but being "natural" is permanent.

Holiness is pursued by those willing to please God while those pursuing selfish cravings has no business with our God! Leviticus 19:2; 1Peter 1:16

kayjordan:
In other words people should not help the needy if they have the capacity to?

NO!
You don't need all the money in the world to render help so whatever you can do within your capability is welcome by our God.

kayjordan:
Also what should be ones motive to work hard and become rich?

Our God doesn't rule out hardwork {Ephesians 4:28} so our hardwork is to survive not stop up treasures {Matthew 6:19-21} thinking it will save us in the evil days! Matthew 12:16-21

kayjordan:
I acknowledge your submission and observation.

While it's true that a lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean "NO EVIDENCE" - it's largely about consolidating the "facts" with our limited understanding - what would a mere man literally believe in - "paper" or "air"?

The clear observation on the article's title is welcome - but the word usage serves a functional purpose. Humans in modern societies, certainly have a problem differentiating between "nature" and "sin" - so by associating the two words, it creates a unified understanding thereof.

Yes, there's an atom of morality in everyone - that is what we refer to as the "angels" and "demons" - which is believed to reside in each person. Situations in life decide which to switch to and which to provoke - it's human nature.

Free will which you have described as ENLIGHTENMENT is correct. Science introduced proper education to humans - in a bid to upgrade the human thinking and make humans work with reasoning rather than imagination.

WISDOM doesn't mean "no it all" - as you implied - and you also say it's application - be it accumulating knowledge or a willingness to learn - helps us solve problems - A FACTUAL point you've made - it's therefore the reason man has been "enlightened" as you noted, to make the world a better place - be it for the "world" at large or for "self" - for nature grants man the "will" to make a choice.

The earth was created for man to inhabit, whatever that must have happened before man was created is non of man's business because the earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; for He founded it on the seas and established it on the waters.

The narrative embellishments of your headline completely outweigh the intended approach as to what the general populace will assume you meant, which in turn will bring about confusion on the mindset of some readers.

The word Devil as we know is the supreme spirit of evil and adversary of God in major religions, or generally a wicked or mischievous person.

In every constructive ordinances (Law), resolutions is paramount because having the effect of law made by men is synonymous to authenticating authority which in a formal settings is tantamount to, either the rules will be followed by the people that created it or it will be desicreated by the policies of which the rules was created to serve. (The tower of Babel comes to mind).

At the bolded, it depends on what constructive analysis your assessment stems from but every mere man will believe in air.

So if one (JW member) wins a lottery and becomes a millionaire - what would such member be advised to do with the money?

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
You don't need all the money in the world to render help so whatever you can do within your capability is welcome by our God.



Our God doesn't rule out hardwork {Ephesians 4:28} so our hardwork is to survive not stop up treasures {Matthew 6:19-21} thinking it will save us in the evil days! Matthew 12:16-21

Therefore, a JW believer must be modest - yet Bible verses would say - "for man shall be blessed with riches"... as prosperity pastors often highlight.

So, what's your definition of "riches" in this context?

MaxInDHouse:
Holiness is pursued by those willing to please God while those pursuing selfish cravings has no business with our God! Leviticus 19:2; 1Peter 1:16

kayjordan:
So if one (JW member) wins a lottery and becomes a millionaire - what would such member be advised to do with the money?

LOTTERY?🙂

Ọmọ we true Christians don't go into gambling it's robbing Peter to pay Paul so greed led unbelievers into such habits, what our God appreciates is HARDWORK! 🙂

Your first paragraph here suggests - "A child who should never ask his mother the history of the family". If man is discouraged from understanding his environment because his God doesn't want him to, then such man is created for the enslavement of God.

The headline of my article while structural sound, may seem heavier than what people would generally assume - and that's because the article is unconventional and requires unconventional thinking to decipher.

Whilst the devil is all you've described it in all manners of negativity, it doesn't isolate the general misconceptions person's have about certain people's behaviors - for example; a strict person referred to as a "witch" in common settings. The entire point you made on the devil's definition in your rebuttal, still affirms my submission of man's nature.

Laws which are created to discipline man, in some significant cases, can be a tool of oppression or unwarranted control just as practised in your faith which you so preserve. For God to create laws He flouts but expects his subordinate creatures to follow, is a white flag and even to those who promote His self-centered laws - it's white flag to them as well with a bronze medal.

Whosoever believes in "air", is not ENLIGHTENED; if I may - and such person revolves around a circle with gaps - for those gaps, shall lead "whoever" to clarity and freedom and away from religious politics and bondage - but unfortunately, they're clinically blind to see the gaps.

martinskelly:
The earth was created for man to inhabit, whatever that must have happened before man was created is non of man's business because the earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; for He founded it on the seas and established it on the waters.

The narrative embellishments of your headline completely outweigh the intended approach as to what the general populace will assume you meant, which in turn will bring about confusion on the mindset of some readers.

The word Devil as we know is the supreme spirit of evil and adversary of God in major religions, or generally a wicked or mischievous person.

In every constructive ordinances (Law), resolutions is paramount because having the effect of law made by men is synonymous to authenticating authority which in a formal settings is tantamount to, either the rules will be followed by the people that created it or it will be desicreated by the policies of which the rules was created to serve. (The tower of Babel comes to mind).

At the bolded, it depends on what constructive analysis your assessment stems from but every mere man will believe in air.

kayjordan:
Therefore, a JW believer must be modest - yet Bible verses would say - "for man shall be blessed with riches"... as prosperity pastors often highlight.
So, what's your definition of "riches" in this context?

The riches mentioned in God's word has to do with spirituality knowing the will of God and doing it.

So only true servants of God are rich not people accumulating material possessions! Matthew 6:19-21; Luke 12:16-21

Let me put this way; JW member gets a windfall amount of millions either through inheritance or merit award...

Would it still be right for such member to be rich?

MaxInDHouse:
LOTTERY?🙂

Ọmọ we true Christians don't go into gambling it's robbing Peter to pay Paul so greed led unbelievers into such habits, what our God appreciates is HARDWORK! 🙂

So who are these true servants and what types of riches are you talking about?

MaxInDHouse:
The riches mentioned in God's word has to do with spirituality knowing the will of God and doing it.

So only true servants of God are rich not people accumulating material possessions! Matthew 6:19-21; Luke 12:16-21

kayjordan:
Let me put this way; JW member gets a windfall amount of millions either through inheritance or merit award...
Would it still be right for such member to be rich?

Inheritance is not what makes people rich but hardwork!
If the son of Dangote inherit the wealth of his father but refused to work hard the riches will go!🙂

kayjordan:
So who are these true servants and what types of riches are you talking about?

Read the Bible quotations first and see what Jesus said.

Moreover Adam was the richest of all men because everything on planet earth was handed over to him {Genesis 1:28} but Jesus is the richest of all Jehovah's Witnesses because God gave all things to him! Matthew 28:18; Colossians 1:15-16

What about if he grows it wisely?

MaxInDHouse:
Inheritance is not what makes people rich but hardwork!
If the son of Dangote inherit the wealth of his father but refused to work hard the riches will go!🙂

kayjordan:
What about if he grows it wisely?

That is HARDWORK!
Which means he is not lazy.
There are two types of laziness:
One who fails to use the muzzle of his hand to work and one who failed to use his brains to calculate or improve on what was given to him!

The issue with "Defenders of Christianity" is the inability to separate spiritual context from physical context.

If I ask a physical question - I get an abstract response that doesn't relate to current societies.

How can 21st Century people work with biblical knowledge of ancient times that are too "supermanish" for a physical and secular world that has never seen any of the magic that took place in the biblical stories?

MaxInDHouse:
Read the Bible quotations first and see what Jesus said.

Moreover Adam was the richest of all men because everything on planet earth was handed over to him {Genesis 1:28} but Jesus is the richest of all Jehovah's Witnesses because God gave all things to him! Matthew 28:18; Colossians 1:15-16

Who are the richest JW members in 2026 and state their networth in dollars or naira?

MaxInDHouse:
That is HARDWORK!
Which means he is not lazy.
There are two types of laziness:
One who fails to use the muzzle of his hand to work and one who failed to use his brains to calculate or improve on what was given to him!