₦airaland Forum

femi4:
Ignorance

Show me where God allowed Abraham to marry Hagar

Did Abraham marry Hagar or just slept with her

As advised by God or by his wife?

And what was God's command to Abraham regarding Hagar n Ishmael

Even if you want to lie, try and be creative

and also what was Hagar to Abraham?

gohf:
and also what was Hagar to Abraham?

Gen 21:12

God did not address her as his wife. If God approves her as a wife, he wont tell him to chase her away

But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the boy and because of your slave woman. Whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your offspring be named.

femi4:
Gen 21:12

God did not address her as his wife. If God approves her as a wife, he wont tell him to chase her away

But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the boy and because of your slave woman. Whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your offspring be named.

Do you know that wife and woman in Hebrew have the same term?

Gen.21.12 But God told Abraham, "Do not be upset over the boy and your servant wife. Do just as Sarah says, for Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted. (NLT)

Anyway I wouldn't even have called her his wife if you didn't bring this verse up, I wanted to ask you concerning an incident that occured with Jacob and Reuben but seeing as you have quoted God recognizing the relationship between Abraham and Hagar and much more than you had initially claimed, I rest my case, except you want to call Hagar a harlot?

estheragha:
An apple tree is bound to bear apples even if it doesn’t want to, and a pear tree can only yield pears when it grows no matter how desperately it might want to bear some other fruits. Human beings, too, cannot help but continue to sin, no matter how much they don’t want to and how hard they try not to sin, precisely because they were all born with sin. Everyone commits sin constantly with their thoughts, acts, and hearts. If circumstances would allow, people put into action the sins they committed only with their thought, and they even commit each and every one of the twelve kinds of sin all at once.


The secular law punishes only the sins committed in deed. However, the Law of God says that even the transgressions committed with the heart are sins, and they are to be punished also. Therefore, what people may not grasp as a sin, God still sees it all clearly. As such, the iniquities that we commit in our hearts are also counted as sins in God’s sight. This is the Godspoken Law. Just as His Word is true—that sin entered through one man, and death through this sin—the claim that human beings, who are all seeds of evildoers, can live in holiness without committing any sin is a lie. It is nothing more than a whitewashed tomb; a deception that tries to hide the fact that all human beings are sinful seeds through one man Adam.

Of course, I am not suggesting here that we should try to sin deliberately. Rather, what I mean is that it’s not because people are deliberately determined to sin that they commit sin, but they cannot help but sin because they were all born as seeds of sin. Whether people sin or not has nothing to do with their level of education or character. Everyone is a sinner who repeatedly commits sin in various forms under various circumstances.

How, then, can human beings, who can only be sinners, ever become God’s sinless children? Paul answers that just as sin entered this world through one man, it is also through one Man that everyone can receive the gift of salvation and be remitted from all his sins by believing in the righteousness of God fulfilled through the gospel of water and Spirit.

The generosity of our God is so rich that many people miss what the Gospel offers.

gohf:
Do you know that wife and woman in Hebrew have the same term?

Gen.21.12 But God told Abraham, "Do not be upset over the boy and your servant wife. Do just as Sarah says, for Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted. (NLT)

Anyway I wouldn't even have called her his wife if you didn't bring this verse up, I wanted to ask you concerning an incident that occured with Jacob and Reuben but seeing as you have quoted God recognizing the relationship between Abraham and Hagar and much more than you had initially claimed, I rest my case, except you want to call Hagar a harlot?

You have comprehension issue

If God recognise the relationship, he wont tell Abraham to chase her away

2. Where I quoted didn't say your woman but your slave woman

In Isaiah 59:1-2, it is written, “Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, That it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, That it cannot hear. But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear.”

Because we are born a mass of sin, God cannot look upon us fondly. It is not because His hand is shortened, or His ear is heavy that He cannot hear us asking for His forgiveness. God tells us, “Your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear.” Because we have so much sin in our hearts, we cannot enter heaven even if the doors are wide open.

If we, who are but a mass of sin, asked for forgiveness every time we sinned, God would have to repeatedly kill His Son. God does not want to do this. Therefore, He says, “Do not come to Me every day with your sins. I sent you My Son to redeem you from all your sins. All you have to do is understand how Jesus took away your sins and see if it is the truth. Then, believe in the gospel of redemption to be saved. This is the utmost love I have for you, My creations.” It is what He tells us. “Believe in My Son and be redeemed. I, your God, sent My own Son to atone for all your sins and iniquities. Believe in My Son and be saved.”

Those who do not know themselves to be masses of sin only ask His forgiveness for their own little sins. They come before Him without knowing the terrible amount and weight of their sins and pray, “Please forgive this tiny bit of sin. I will never do it again.” They are also trying to deceive Him. We do not just sin once, but do so continually until we die. We would have to keep asking for forgiveness until the very last day of our lives. Being forgiven for one little sin cannot solve anything because we commit sins every day of our lives until we die. So the only way we can be free of sin is by passing all our sins on to Jesus.

Learn more @ www.bjnewlife.org. Free books, ebooks and audiobooks available.

gohf:
I didn't read ALL of the OP (I don't know if any have esp those who have committed) but to point something bcuz of your post.

God didn't create humans to sin or be sinners, if not the book of Genesis wouldn't be about the fall of man but the mistake of God.

It is correct to say God didn't create a perfect being, after all only God is perfect but the reason it's call fall of man is that men fell from the original goal God had for them.

Sin doesn't mean being human, it means going off course, so saying avoiding sin is "biological impossible" is like saying avoiding an error or a mistake is impossible that would mean all the so called morals, rules and the like are foolishness since it is biologically impossible for all man not to, for example, murder the innocent.

there is no way that an omniscient being did not have the foresight that that would happen, the crust of my claim is that god know all that was going to happen yet it still went ahead to create the broken world and man in that way anyway, its within his power for it to create a sinless, beautiful utopia yet he did otherwise. so its its fault

femi4:
God has given a man the WILL to choose

He wont force man to do the right thing

so where was he when all of this was plying out

Yorimichi:
so where was he when all of this was plying out

Where was the security camera when thieves were burgling a shop

femi4:
Where was the security camera when thieves were burgling a shop

so god is a security camera right??
Got it

Yorimichi:
there is no way that an omniscient being did not have the foresight that that would happen, the crust of my claim is that god know all that was going to happen yet it still went ahead to create the broken world and man in that way anyway, its within his power for it to create a sinless, beautiful utopia yet he did otherwise. so its its fault

God Himself created the earth and it was dark and He Himself never said it was good.

So while God formed the light He is also the reason there is (or was) darkness. It is also His decision at some point to completely destroy darkness.

God is responsible for the options available to us, He is responsible for us having a choice in the first place because He made it that way and so He doesn't judge us for what He has done but what we do, with what He has given us.

Now what you are doing here is blaming Him for making things that way, instead of accepting the way things are and making the best of it -which is wisdom. Seeing that no matter how you blame or "fault" Him nothing will change -which isn't wisdom.


God who created this earth, and left the kind of men who turned it this way, decided to create a new earth and leave a different kind of men so that the utopia you wrote about is a reality.

If God's process of creating perfect men is this then get with the program or get left out of it, it's still a choice though.

gohf:
God Himself created the earth and it was dark and He Himself never said it was good.

So while God formed the light He is also the reason there is (or was) darkness. It is also His decision at some point to completely destroy darkness.

God is responsible for the options available to us, He is responsible for us having a choice in the first place because He made it that way and so He doesn't judge us for what He has done but what we do, with what He has given us.

Now what you are doing here is blaming Him for making things that way, instead of accepting the way things are and making the best of it -which is wisdom. Seeing that no matter how you blame or "fault" Him nothing will change -which isn't wisdom.


God who created this earth, and left the kind of men who turned it this way, decided to create a new earth and leave a different kind of men so that the utopia you wrote about is a reality.

If God's process of creating perfect men is this then get with the program or get left out of it, it's still a choice though.

What are you talking about in genesis chapter 1
Throughout the chapter God repeatedly “saw that it was good” (Genesis 1:4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25)

gohf:
God Himself created the earth and it was dark and He Himself never said it was good.

So while God formed the light He is also the reason there is (or was) darkness. It is also His decision at some point to completely destroy darkness.

God is responsible for the options available to us, He is responsible for us having a choice in the first place because He made it that way and so He doesn't judge us for what He has done but what we do, with what He has given us.

Now what you are doing here is blaming Him for making things that way, instead of accepting the way things are and making the best of it -which is wisdom. Seeing that no matter how you blame or "fault" Him nothing will change -which isn't wisdom.


God who created this earth, and left the kind of men who turned it this way, decided to create a new earth and leave a different kind of men so that the utopia you wrote about is a reality.

If God's process of creating perfect men is this then get with the program or get left out of it, it's still a choice though.

You're basically saying, "Stop questioning the design and just accept it." But that doesn't answer the criticism.

If God knowingly created a system where billions would suffer, sin, and perish, despite having the power to create a world without those outcomes, then the fact that He can eventually fix it doesn't absolve Him of responsibility for creating it that way in the first place.

Imagine an engineer deliberately builds a bridge knowing it will collapse and kill thousands, while having the ability to build a perfectly safe one. Promising to build a better bridge later wouldn't remove responsibility for the first disaster.

You say God shouldn't be judged for what He has done but for what we do with what He has given us. But what He gave us includes our nature, our environment, the possibility of evil, suffering, disease, natural disasters, and the conditions under which every human decision is made. Those weren't our choices.

And saying "get with the program or get left out" doesn't solve the moral question either. The question isn't whether God is powerful enough to enforce His plan. The question is whether the plan itself is morally justifiable when an omniscient being could have achieved the same end without the immense suffering along the way.

A future utopia doesn't explain why centuries of pain, death, and misery were necessary when an all-powerful God had other options available from the beginning.