₦airaland Forum

I see your means of passing information derives from subtle abuse. This only shows how vile your thoughts are. The thread title is what again?
If new heavens means a new government, the 144,000 cannot also occupy a literal heavenly realm. A symbolic reading removes the separation required by the two-class view. You cannot interpret it symbolically when convenient and literally when needed. That inconsistency weakens the framework.

MaxInDHouse:
If you want to learn opportunity to do so is there but when you choose to argue based on what the false religions in the world infused in your head that's your own cup of coffee!🙂

What is the essence of creating earth and putting humans there if heaven is where God intended for humans?

Muhammad knew nothing about God that is why he was mixing everything together.

New heavens and new earth are symbolic terms and it simply means new governments and new subjects who are willing to live with righteousness {2Peter 3:13} not another planet. God has promised never to destroy earth in fact He said this planet earth will last forever! Genesis 8:21-22; Psalms 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4

No human is going to heaven because it was never created for humans in the first place. Jesus promised to take good care of his corulers since Jews in Jerusalem rejected him and his teachings but Jerusalem on mouth Zion where David ruled as king is the place God wanted to establish rulership of Christ. Isaiah 9:6-7

So Jesus promised the few selected humans to rule with him another place {John 14:1-3} they can't go there as humans because heaven wasn't meant for humans so they must be transformed into another being before they can be taken there {Luke 20:34-36} they can't marry no gender difference (male/female) bodies in heaven that is why Revelation 14:1 says all of them in their number 144,000 were seen on mount Zion (heavenly government house) with the lamb of God who is Christ!

God's original purpose for mankind has not changed billions of obedient mankind will live forever on planet earth! Psalms 37:29

Explore2xmore:
I see your means of passing information derives from subtle abuse.

Where is the abuse o?😟

This is the Bible not your Quran where you can't answer any question so what you should do is humbly learn not trying to imply what those who knows nothing about God told you.

Meanwhile you haven't answered one single question with that your Quran o!

Perhaps you have forgotten here is the question again:

Where did God create Adam and Eve in the beginning?

Please quote it from your Quran!🙂

Read your entry I responded to and feign oblivious innocence more.

MaxInDHouse:
Where is the abuse o?😟

This is the Bible not your Quran where you can't answer any question so what you should do is humbly learn not trying to imply what those who knows nothing about God told you.

Meanwhile you haven't answered one single question with that your Quran o!

Perhaps you have forgotten here is the question again:

Where did God create Adam and Eve in the beginning?

Please quote it from your Quran!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Oya mention the name of your own church nah if you are not ashamed? Isaiah 65:13-14


Why hiding behind anonymous nah?😂

Ọmọ it's only the spirit of the true God that can make LOVE reign in the midst of millions of people from different nations throughout the world as if they are all from ONE tribe o. John 17:22

So continue lying to your own soul!🤣

I have told you I belong to the body of Christ globally. I do not segregate, and I have no denomination. Christ established His Body, the Church. He did not establish organizations or denominations.

No, love can be pretended. If I call ex-JWs here, they'll open a can of worms on your organization. For example, true love seeks restoration for those who miss the way, but your organization excommunicates people and scatter whole families. That's not love. True love does not lie. It does not call Jesus angel Michael knowing fully well that He's not. True love does not invent its own ideas to deceive the congregation thereby. For example, lying that Jesus started reigning in 1914 when the Bible never said or insinuated anything like that.

True love is demonstrated by genuine concern for the brethren -especially their stand in Christ, ensuring that their souls remain steadfast in the Lord. The fruits of such love is Truth, absolutely Truth without lying to the brethren. This produces changed lives., Deliverances from the grips of Satan, a new love for God, and praises towards God who Himself is Love. If the Spirit of God is inside you, He'll be unmistakable. He changes you from inside out. The transformation is a Christ-like identity that breaks the yoke of sin. That is why "If you have not the Spirit of Christ, you are none of His". Romans 8:9.

FxMasterz:
I do not segregate.

Jesus is the Christ and he SEGREGATES in his life time!

There were different sects all claiming worshipers of the God of Abraham, Isaac , Jacob, Joseph and Moses in the first century:
Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other teachers of the law who were all Jews even though Jesus affirms that the salvation of mankind is of the Jews {John 4:22} yet Jesus still segregates among the Jews telling people that it's only those with whom he shared the same line of thought are his fellow worshipers and family in the faith.
So if Jesus despite being Jew excluded Mary (his mother) and his brothers from being called his fellow believers (family in the faith) ọmọ stop deceiving yourself in Christ Jesus there is SEGREGATION if you're not sharing the same line of thought.
Here is what his real disciples said:

Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. Romans 16:17

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 2John 10

Paul and John are talking about those claiming CHRISTIANS but failed to agree with whatever the apostles and elders in Jerusalem concluded. Act 2:42

So stop deceiving yourself and answer the question:

What is the name of your own church?

Everyone knows that there are different religions with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all claiming Christians so which one is the truth among them?🙂

Interesting how God so loved a segregated world and sent a segregating prophet

Explore2xmore:
Interesting how God so loved a segregated world and sent a segregating prophet.

Why couldn't your Muhammad welcome all forms of worship?🤣

John 3:16 says God loved the world. If this framework divides the saved into two permanently separate classes with different eternal destinies, it creates some confusion. How does equal divine love result in unequal eternal outcomes? The verse does not limit God’s love by class or destination; it applies to the world as a whole.

MaxInDHouse:
Why couldn't your Muhammad welcome all forms of worship?🤣

It's lack of knowledge that's disturbing you because what God promised all His faithful worshipers is EVERLASTING LIFE {John 3:16} so whether on earth or in heaven everlasting life is assured for faithful servants of God!

Explore2xmore:
John 3:16 says God loved the world. If this framework divides the saved into two permanently separate classes with different eternal destinies, it creates some confusion. How does equal divine love result in unequal eternal outcomes? The verse does not limit God’s love by class or destination; it applies to the world as a whole.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is the Christ and he SEGREGATES in his life time!

What blasphemy!

There were different sects all claiming worshipers of the God of Abraham, Isaac , Jacob, Joseph and Moses in the first century:
Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other teachers of the law who were all Jews even though Jesus affirms that the salvation of mankind is of the Jews {John 4:22} yet Jesus still segregates among the Jews telling people that it's only those with whom he shared the same line of thought are his fellow worshipers and family in the faith.
So if Jesus despite being Jew excluded Mary (his mother) and his brothers from being called his fellow believers (family in the faith) ọmọ stop deceiving yourself in Christ Jesus there is SEGREGATION if you're not sharing the same line of thought.
Here is what his real disciples said:

Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. Romans 16:17

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 2John 10

Paul and John are talking about those claiming CHRISTIANS but failed to agree with whatever the apostles and elders in Jerusalem concluded. Act 2:42

So stop deceiving yourself and answer the question:

What is the name of your own church?

Everyone knows that there are different religions with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all claiming Christians so which one is the truth among them?🙂

How can you claim to be sharing the same line or thoughts with Jesus by calling Him angel Michael or saying He starter reigning in 1914 contrary to the Scriptures? Even believing that being a part of an organization is superior to having the Spirit of God in you, all in blatant disregard for the very Word of God. Are you a comedian?

@Maxindhouse has redefined God and reinterpreted scripture to that view

FxMasterz:
What blasphemy!



How can you claim to be sharing the same line or thoughts with Jesus by calling Him angel Michael or saying He starter reigning in 1914 contrary to the Scriptures? Even believing that being a part of an organization is superior to having the Spirit of God in you, all in blatant disregard for the very Word of God. Are you a comedian?

FxMasterz:
What blasphemy!

What is the meaning of segregation?
Did Jesus agree that all Jews claiming worshipers of the God of Moses truly worships his God? John 8:44🙂

FxMasterz:
How can you claim to be sharing the same line or thoughts with Jesus by calling Him angel Michael or saying He starter reigning in 1914 contrary to the Scriptures? Even believing that being a part of an organization is superior to having the Spirit of God in you, all in blatant disregard for the very Word of God. Are you a comedian?

Present your own church and let us see what you people are producing. Matthew 7:16-18
When Jesus was teaching in the first century most Jews believed he was lying while others believe he is deceiving his audience.
WHY?
Because he held a different opinion from all other teachers of God's word.

But only himself and his disciples were producing the FRUIT expected of true worshipers of God in the first century!🙂

Explore2xmore:
@Maxindhouse has redefined God and reinterpreted scripture to that view

At least you agree with all the religions claiming Christians as they are saying Jesus is the God they are worshiping.

And most of them claims God is three in one!🤣

Where most people failed woefully in their study of the Bible is picking words above deeds of a religion.

There is nowhere in the Bible that Jesus speaks against the TEACHING of any religion as heresy because all of them are interested in understanding what was written so interpretation is bound to be different but what Jesus taught us to focus on is the outcome of such interpretation or teaching. Matthew 7:15-20

So according to Jesus Christ how can we know the religion that's teaching HERESY?
Is it by their TEACHINGS?
Of course not! Rather it's by what they are producing with their teachings.

Jesus is the archangel Michael according to some religions claiming Christians but then no verse in the Bible explicitly says that just as no verse in the Old testament explicitly say the name of the prophet who will prepare the way for the Christ is "John" neither is there any verse in the Old testament that explicitly say the name of the Christ will be "Jesus" therefore whoever says John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth were fake prophets in the first century surely has a point. But such arguments are like a cause for stumbling! Luke 7:23
So why do faithful Jews in the first century believe that John the baptist is the foretold Elijah and that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ?
They studied the scriptures and compare what is happening to the claim made by Jesus of Nazareth!
This young man said John the baptist is the foretold Elijah {Matthew 11:14-15} whereas John himself denied being the promised Elijah! John 1:21😟
All the things written in the scriptures that the coming Elijah would do it what John the baptist fulfilled without living any so those listening to Jesus believed through what happened not waiting to see it written explicitly in the Bible!🙂

According To Daniel Michael will rise in the endtime as a means of salvation for all faithful servants of God {Daniel 12:1} resurrection will take place due to his activities {Daniel 12:2} many will find his activities confusing while those who are pure in heart will understand! Daniel 12:10

Which prophet named "Michael" has fulfilled any of these prophecies?

We all know that only Jesus of Nazareth did and just as the scriptures foretold that he will resurrect those sleeping in death Jesus raised a lot from the dead. Matthew 11:5

Jesus knew that his disciples can't grasp everything so towards the end of his earthly life he told them that the holy spirit will reveal the rest to them {John 16:12-13} the apostle Paul was inspired to write that the Lord (Jesus) will use the voice of the archangel to raise the dead {1Thessalonians 4:16} the same thing Daniel foretold! Daniel 12:2

Is Michael one of God's spirit sons in heaven? YES!
Did Jesus claim to be one of God's spirit sons in heaven? YES!
Is Michael the head of all the angels in heaven? YES!
Did Jesus claim to be the commander in chief of all the angels in heaven? YES!

So what else could hinder anyone from understanding this secret?
Simple! It's the false doctrine TRINITY!

Most people are blinded by the false doctrine of Trinity to the extent that they find it really hard to agree that Jesus is one of God's spirit sons instead they want to put Jesus in the person of God Almighty something that makes no practical sense at all!😟

But let's leave all that aside and focus on what Jesus himself said regarding how to IDENTIFY the true church of Christ. Jesus said there will be many false prophets {Matthew 7:15} false prophets attracts followers after themselves {Matthew 24:11} so since they are false there is no way they can produce anything good out of those following them as they themselves are greedy {Matthew 7:16-18} while Jesus' real disciples will be making disciples who are dedicated preachers and teachers throughout the earth {Matthew 28:19-20} false prophets will only gather followers to enrich themselves! 2Corinthians 11:12-14🙂

Explore2xmore:
@Maxindhouse has redefined God and reinterpreted scripture to that view

Reinterpretation of scriptures is even an understatement. They outrightly introduce interpolations and make derivations that are absolutely illogical and baseless.

Explore2xmore:
I see your means of passing information derives from subtle abuse. This only shows how vile your thoughts are. The thread title is what again?
If new heavens means a new government, the 144,000 cannot also occupy a literal heavenly realm. A symbolic reading removes the separation required by the two-class view. You cannot interpret it symbolically when convenient and literally when needed. That inconsistency weakens the framework.

You're very correct regarding the bolded. They'll later come to tell you that they're the best performers. Lol.

MaxInDHouse:
What is the meaning of segregation?
Did Jesus agree that all Jews claiming worshipers of the God of Moses truly worships his God? John 8:44🙂

If Jesus didn't believe they worship His God, He would not join them in their synagogues.

What Jesus brought to the Jews was not a new God. He brought them a new way to worship the same God.

And Jesus is that Way!

Present your own church and let us see what you people are producing. Matthew 7:16-18
When Jesus was teaching in the first century most Jews believed he was lying while others believe he is deceiving his audience.
WHY?
Because he held a different opinion from all other teachers of God's word.

But only himself and his disciples were producing the FRUIT expected of true worshipers of God in the first century!🙂

Lying, subtle abuse, false doctrines that have no scriptural roots, new lights that make previous lights into darkness, etc, are not the fruits of Christ's disciples.

FxMasterz:
If Jesus didn't believe they worship His God, He would not join them in their synagogues.

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. ‭John 8:44 NIV‬
Jesus in the above statement is talking to people who don't worship in the same temple shey?🤣

FxMasterz:
Lying, subtle abuse, false doctrines that have no scriptural roots, new lights that make previous lights into darkness, etc, are not the fruits of Christ's disciples.

FRUIT differ from understanding.

The apostles made errors in their understanding of scriptures and later corrected themselves yet they fulfilled what was prophesied regarding first century worshipers of God.

That is what Jesus meant by FRUIT!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. ‭John 8:44 NIV‬
Jesus in the above statement is talking to people who don't worship in the same temple shey?🤣

Did Jesus not call their temple His Father's House when He drove out the traders? Is the God of Israel not the same as the God Jesus preached? You guys have very shallow understanding of Scripture and your arrogance will not make you learn. Jesus didn't introduce a new God to Israel. He only introduced a new Way. Anyone who doesn't serve God in this new way is of his father the devil.

FRUIT differ from understanding.

The apostles made errors in their understanding of scriptures and later corrected themselves yet they fulfilled what was prophesied regarding first century worshipers of God.

That is what Jesus meant by FRUIT!🙂

The apostles didn't make any error in their understanding of Scripture and later corrected themselves. That's a big lie you guys want to use to justify your falsehood. Prove to me that the apostles had errors. Or you want to.use "John will never die till Jesus comes' as your example of errors regarding their understanding of Scripture? Lol.

FxMasterz:
Did Jesus not call their temple His Father's House when He drove out the traders? Is the God of Israel not the same as the God Jesus preached? You guys have very shallow understanding of Scripture and your arrogance will not make you learn. Jesus didn't introduce a new God to Israel. He only introduced a new Way. Anyone who doesn't serve God in this new way is of his father the devil.

Did Jesus worship the same God with the Pharisees?
Just answer the question YES or NO?🙂

FxMasterz:
The apostles didn't make any error in their understanding of Scripture and later corrected themselves.

FxMasterz:
They (Apostles) agreed but they misunderstood. They probably thought He was talking about the dispersed Jews among the gentiles. There was a Moses stronghold on their minds that wouldn't allow the truth of that message to penetrate. Thank God for Paul.

Why did Peter say:

“Now I truly understand that God is not partial, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him" Act 10:34-35

Note the highlighted in red.
Did they understood everything at once or later corrected themselves through the help of God's holy spirit? John 16:12-13🤣

In time all or most scripture will be reviewed.

I answered your previous questions but you refuse to accept these and consider them unanswered.

Indeed, We created man from a clay of altered black mud.Qur’an 15:26

He created him from dust; then He said to him: ‘Be,’ and he was. Qur’an 3:59

Ibn Kathir explains in his tafsir of these verses that Adam’s creation began from dust/earth (turab), which Allah made into clay.

The Prophet pbuh also said Allah created Adam from a handful which He took from all of the earth…
Sunan Abi Dawud, Hadith 4693

Adam was created by Allah and was later commanded to dwell in Paradise. (Qur’an 2:35; Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise…

MaxInDHouse:
At least you agree with all the religions claiming Christians as they are saying Jesus is the God they are worshiping.

And most of them claims God is three in one!🤣

Explore2xmore:
I answered your previous questions but you refuse to accept these and consider them unanswered.

O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise…

Explore2xmore:
Quran 54:54–55 states that the righteous will be in gardens and rivers, near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability. It does not specifically say this is the same heaven from which Adam was sent down.

Ọmọ i know Islam before you were born so i can tell you categorically that both Allah, Muhammad and your Quran can't answer any question straightforward.

I'm not saying your Quran can't copy and paste few things from the Bible what i'm telling you is that your Quran can't answer any question EXPLICITLY as you are demanding from the Bible.

So answer the simple question.

You said your Allah drove Adam down away from heaven.

So when was Adam taken to heaven before he was sent down again?
After all you are now saying Adam was created on planet earth.🙂

FxMasterz:
Reinterpretation of scriptures is even an understatement. They outrightly introduce interpolations and make derivations that are absolutely illogical and baseless.

FxMasterz:
Maxindhouse has largely answered the question.

Please whenever you want to comment on Nairaland don't mention me again in relation to whatever you believe because you and i aren't on the same page. Mark 3:11-12
So quote your fellow worshipers in your God and make reference to them not me!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Please whenever you want to comment on Nairaland don't mention me again in relation to whatever you believe because you and i aren't on the same page. Mark 3:11-12
So quote your fellow worshipers in your God and make reference to them not me!🙂

This is the thousandth time you'll be saying this. And you'll be the first to come mention me. Very unstable personality.

If I said you have answered a question, how does that mean you're being mentioned for engagement?

FxMasterz:
This is the thousandth time you'll be saying this. And you'll be the first to come mention me. Very unstable personality. If I said you have answered a question, how does that mean you're being mentioned for engagement?

Now that it's clear you and i aren't on the same page please don't mention me or refer to me in your post.
Continue with your fellow worshipers as for me whatever i say is the belief of my entire global family and you can ask any of them unlike you who can't mention your own church yet claiming they exist!🤣

MaxInDHouse:
Did Jesus worship the same God with the Pharisees?
Just answer the question YES or NO?🙂

Absolutely YES!

The Pharisees worshiped the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who is also called the God of Israel. And that's the God Jesus preached.

Worshipping God wrongly is the same as worshipping another god.

Why did Peter say:

“Now I truly understand that God is not partial, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him" Act 10:34-35

Note the highlighted in red.
Did they understood everything at once or later corrected themselves through the help of God's holy spirit? John 16:12-13🤣

They understood everything about the Old Testament, and they lived according to the rules of that dispensation. When God's dispensation changed, they were the first oracles that God chose to deliver His new ways to us. Peter realizing God's new views as it defers from His previous Old Testament standing is not from a lack of understanding, but from a revelation standpoint about the new things God was doing.

What new thing is God doing that you constantly get new lights every year?

MaxInDHouse:
Now that it's clear you and i aren't on the same page please don't mention me or refer to me in your post.
Continue with your fellow worshipers as for me whatever i say is the belief of my entire global family and you can ask any of them unlike you who can't mention your own church yet claiming they exist!🤣

Neither should you!

FxMasterz:
Neither should you!

Never again!
Farewell!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Never again!
Farewell!🙂

Keep.your farewell to yourself.

God already gave me abundantly..

Over to you jàre Mr Explore2xmore.

If your Quran says Adam was created from the dust of the earth and God put him in a garden on planet earth:

Explore2xmore:
Ibn Kathir explains in his tafsir of these verses that Adam’s creation began from dust/earth (turab), which Allah made into clay. The Prophet pbuh also said Allah created Adam from a handful which He took from all of the earth…

When was he taken to heaven so that God later send him out of heaven to planet earth again?🙂

Explore2xmore:
The righteous will be in gardens and rivers, near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability. It does not specifically say this is the same heaven from which Adam was sent down.

How i wish to stay away from engaging Muslims in such discussions because i know your Quran has no answer to all these questions but when you decides to question God's word you people give room for intimidating your prophet, god, book and religion!😟

MaxInDHouse:
Over to you jàre Mr Explore2xmore.

If your Quran says Adam was created from the dust of the earth and God put him in a garden on planet earth:



When was he taken to heaven so that God later send him out of heaven to planet earth again?🙂



How i wish to stay away from engaging Muslims in such discussions because i know your Quran has no answer to all these questions but when you decides to question God's word you people give room for intimidating your prophet, god, book and religion!😟

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ i know Islam before you were born so i can tell you categorically that both Allah, Muhammad and your Quran can't answer any question straightforward.

I'm not saying your Quran can't copy and paste few things from the Bible what i'm telling you is that your Quran can't answer any question EXPLICITLY as you are demanding from the Bible.

So answer the simple question.

You said your Allah drove Adam down away from heaven.

So when was Adam taken to heaven before he was sent down again?
After all you are now saying Adam was created on planet earth.🙂

The Quran has answered these points directly, with references already provided. A person familiar with Islamic theology would know the Quran doesn’t say Adam was taken from earth to heaven and then returned. It says he was placed in a Garden and later told to descend. Claiming that the Garden must have been in heaven is an assumption, not a statement from the text itself. Even classical scholars debated this issue.
Likewise, saying the Quran copied the Bible oversimplifies the matter. Both scriptures exist within a shared Abrahamic tradition, but that’s not the same as one being a copy of the other.
The relevant verses have been cited: 2:30, 2:35, 2:38, 3:59, 15:26, 21:105, and 54:54–55. The answers are there. Rejecting them without addressing them isn’t a counterargument. And the standard should be consistent: the Bible also has not produced a clear verse proving two permanent groups of saved believers with different eternal outcomes. That question remains unanswered. When you can answer we will see clearly.
Advice you get off your haughtiness and imagination. This is an online platform with higher chances of me living longer on earth than you besides age not being a measure of knowledge.