₦airaland Forum

ValeeLove:
the people were Alive with him. Matthew and John who wrote the gospels were His disciples and closest friends.

So how come they never wrote anything about Jesus til he died?

ValeeLove:
I don't get, is it a crime for me to retell things that happened 40 years before? Documentaries exist.

Do you think its easy to tell a story when it happened, or many years after it happened?
Documentaries are made from literature that was made when the event happened. For example,Martin Luther King documentary was made from stories,accounts, drawings etc made when he was alive. The writings or stories in the gospels were made much later after Jesus died

ValeeLove:
I already told you there were multiple. This one is just stating the one that occured while Quirinius was governor. There was another prior, while Herod was alive which Quirinius still oversaw this time as a chief army official.

There was only ONE documented census. The others were false and no documents favor them. They were added after the Roman's found out that the only census documented would kill the veracity of the bible story

ValeeLove:
its been said by scholars that they were multiple census and two which Quirinius oversaw. One before he was governor and one when he became one.

It explicitly says when he was governor. Herod the great died at least 10 years before Quirinius became governor so it is impossible for the story to be historically accurate.

Which leads me to conclude there was no divine hand involved in the crafting. These are just stories being told about a beloved character to promote his legend.

ValeeLove:
it's literally in Jerusalem. Just Google search it.

Bro there are THREE sites for the tomb of Jesus. How is that any kind of evidence?

LordReed:
Bro there are THREE sites for the tomb of Jesus. How is that any kind of evidence?

to every original there's always a fake. But Church of the Holy Sepulchre has the most authentic and trusted one.

ValeeLove:
to every original there's always a fake. But Church of the Holy Sepulchre has the most authentic and trusted one.

And how do you know its the authentic one

ValeeLove:
to every original there's always a fake. But Church of the Holy Sepulchre has the most authentic and trusted one.

LoLz. How do you know? What is the evidence that this is the authentic one?

ValeeLove:
the people were Alive with him. Matthew and John who wrote the gospels were His disciples and closest friends.

Matthew and John didn't write those books.

LordReed:
Matthew and John didn't write those books.

so who did and what evidence do you have to back it up?

jaephoenix:
Do you think its easy to tell a story when it happened, or many years after it happened?
Documentaries are made from literature that was made when the event happened. For example,Martin Luther King documentary was made from stories,accounts, drawings etc made when he was alive. The writings or stories in the gospels were made much later after Jesus died

chill, what I mean is they most likely compiled it through documentation and diaries, eye witnesses accounts, personal experience and asking questions.

jaephoenix:
1. You still haven't provided any evidence about this heaven. You just saud it cant be proven,SO HOW DO YOU KNOW IT ACTUALLY EXISTS SINCE ITS OUTSIDE SPACE AND TIME?
2. Faith without works is dead? So what happens when someone has no faith at all,would that person succeed?
China isnt religious. Get your facts right. UK is getting less religious, in fact churches are being converted to pubs and clubs there. You can fact check. US is religious but gradually atheism is increasing there.
I am talking about countries that have more Christians like Latin America etc. They tend to have poorer economy. The percentage of atheists in Eastern European countries are much higher than Nigeria yet they are better off than us
Yes,development is a measure of success. If I give you UK visa you would run there without thinking about your religious Nigeria. So u want to tell me Netherlands, Slovenia etc have more natural disasters,crime and depression than Nigeria? Lol 😆
These lies wont help you bro

.

The person Jesus told me so I believe. We can't see proof of Heaven, but as humans we are supposed to take the logical option and that option is Jesus.

Faith without work is dead. Work without faith is also dead.

They're Buddhists in China, but it wasn't a good example since they're mostly atheists.
UK & USA built their Nation as a Christian major country. That's my point. Belief in God doesn't stop you from thinking, it does the opposite even and makes you better as a person.

ValeeLove:
so who did and what evidence do you have to back it up?

The authors are unknown. There are several other reasons why we can't simply trust that the books were written eponymously. For one they were written by supposedly unlearned men in Greek. Next the earliest manuscript found so far are dated to the 2nd century so the authors can't be verified.

Now you tell me what evidence you have that they were written by Matthew and John.

ValeeLove:
so who did and what evidence do you have to back it up?

The writers of the gospel are anonymous and it was written many years after Jesus's death,and they weren't eye witnesses
Even bible scholars and historians believe its anonymous

ValeeLove:
chill, what I mean is they most likely compiled it through documentation and diaries, eye witnesses accounts, personal experience and asking questions.

Do u even know what eye witness mean, or did the meaning change overnight?
Those purported authors didn't exist and it has been proven to be written years later,thus werent eye witness accounts

ValeeLove:
.

The person Jesus told me so I believe. We can't see proof of Heaven, but as humans we are supposed to take the logical option and that option is Jesus.

Faith without work is dead. Work without faith is also dead.

They're Buddhists in China, but it wasn't a good example since they're mostly atheists.
UK & USA built their Nation as a Christian major country. That's my point. Belief in God doesn't stop you from thinking, it does the opposite even and makes you better as a person.

So why should you believe in Jesus since there is no historical evidence that he's a god? Would you believe other gods just because their holy books said to believe in them?
What has logic gotta do with religion? Religion believes in talking animals and bushes,mass resurrections, sun and moon standing still etc,which sre events that have not been proven to happen. So logic is out of the window for you.
So faith without work is dead? OK, so lemme ask a scenario. I have 3 students for an exam. One ONLY prayed and fasted with faith,the other prayed and read,while the third one ONLY read for the exam. Which of them would probably pass the exam?

Belief in god actually stops critical thinking. Remember the bible discourages thinking and even explicitly says for you not to lean on your own understanding

jaephoenix:
And how do you know its the authentic one

we don't necessarily know but it has the best evidence or strongest cases.

jaephoenix:
So why should you believe in Jesus since there is no historical evidence that he's a god? Would you believe other gods just because their holy books said to believe in them?
What has logic gotta do with religion? Religion believes in talking animals and bushes,mass resurrections, sun and moon standing still etc,which sre events that have not been proven to happen. So logic is out of the window for you.
So faith without work is dead? OK, so lemme ask a scenario. I have 3 students for an exam. One ONLY prayed and fasted with faith,the other prayed and read,while the third one ONLY read for the exam. Which of them would probably pass the exam?

Belief in god actually stops critical thinking. Remember the bible discourages thinking and even explicitly says for you not to lean on your own understanding

logic has every thing to do with spirituality, not necessarily science, but logic. If a man rises from the dead, it's logical to believe him if he says he's God.

The gospels have many external sources, you can look it up.

The one who prayed and read will most likely do the best.

The verse says trust in the Lord; that means in a situation or context that you need or have to trust in God for help and understanding, do that and not on yourself.

jaephoenix:
The writers of the gospel are anonymous and it was written many years after Jesus's death,and they weren't eye witnesses
Even bible scholars and historians believe its anonymous

the early church fathers believed it was Matthew Mark Luke and John; it's the modern scholars that disagree.
But answer this, why are historical dates measured and written based only on the birth and life of Jesus, a man you claim never existed. You can't even have this conversation without mentioning BC and AD. Is history that gullible?

LordReed:
The authors are unknown. There are several other reasons why we can't simply trust that the books were written eponymously. For one they were written by supposedly unlearned men in Greek. Next the earliest manuscript found so far are dated to the 2nd century so the authors can't be verified.

Now you tell me what evidence you have that they were written by Matthew and John.

the fact that I have information on ground today doesn't mean I have to produce a book right away. My point is producing the book later on doesn't mean the information wasn't obtained from first-hand encounter.

LordReed:
It explicitly says when he was governor. Herod the great died at least 10 years before Quirinius became governor so it is impossible for the story to be historically accurate.

Which leads me to conclude there was no divine hand involved in the crafting. These are just stories being told about a beloved character to promote his legend.

I'll have to get back to you on this, but from what I know the greek word there is a verb and not a noun, meaning he was most likely put in charge during Herod's reign before he officially became an actual governor.

jaephoenix:
There was only ONE documented census. The others were false and no documents favor them. They were added after the Roman's found out that the only census documented would kill the veracity of the bible story

Luke 2:2 says "this was the first census..." It was multiple.

ValeeLove:
I'll have to get back to you on this, but from what I know the greek word there is a verb and not a noun, meaning he was most likely put in charge during Herod's reign before he officially became an actual governor.

Bro Herod was not alive in the first century. Can you see how you are having to revise the words you claim are from eyewitnesses and divine inspiration? You don't even have confidence in the words as they are written because they contradict facts.

ValeeLove:
the fact that I have information on ground today doesn't mean I have to produce a book right away. My point is producing the book later on doesn't mean the information wasn't obtained from first-hand encounter.

Bro how do you KNOW Matthew and John wrote the books?

ValeeLove:
we don't necessarily know but it has the best evidence or strongest cases.

What evidence proves its the strongest

ValeeLove:
logic has every thing to do with spirituality, not necessarily science, but logic. If a man rises from the dead, it's logical to believe him if he says he's God.

The gospels have many external sources, you can look it up.

The one who prayed and read will most likely do the best.

The verse says trust in the Lord; that means in a situation or context that you need or have to trust in God for help and understanding, do that and not on yourself.

Logic absolutely has nothing to do with spirituality. It looks like you dont know what logic is. Maybe I'll define it for you
Logic is the formal science of correct reasoning. It involves evaluating arguments to determine whether a conclusion is validly supported by its premises, separating sound, reasonable thinking from flawed or irrational conclusions.
From the above definition, it is based off evidence and facts. Spirituality cannot be proven. Why do I have to define stuff for you christians always?
You haven't even proven that a man rose from the dead,and you're already basing premises off it.
You have been unable to show us the external sources of the gospel for days now, yet you're telling us to do the work for you. Na so u dey do?
Why do you think the one who prayed and read would do better than the one who only read? Remember he used all his time to read,he didn't waste any time to pray.
That's still what I'm saying. Your bible said not to trust in our logic ir understanding

ValeeLove:
the early church fathers believed it was Matthew Mark Luke and John; it's the modern scholars that disagree.
But answer this, why are historical dates measured and written based only on the birth and life of Jesus, a man you claim never existed. You can't even have this conversation without mentioning BC and AD. Is history that gullible?

Good question. I love this.
Dates are measured in Anno Domini (A.D.) because a 6th-century monk Dionysius Exiguus wanted to standardize the calendar by making the birth of Jesus Christ the center of world history, rather than counting years based on the reigns of Roman emperors. Now because the phrase Anno Domini is explicitly religious, many modern historians and scientists use the neutral terms C.E. (Common Era) and B.C.E. (Before Common Era). Both systems share the exact same timeline.
Remember many atheists dont have issues with the historicity of Jesus, what we debate on is HIS DEITY. Meaning his virgin birth,miracles, resurrection are not evidenced

ValeeLove:
the fact that I have information on ground today doesn't mean I have to produce a book right away. My point is producing the book later on doesn't mean the information wasn't obtained from first-hand encounter.

So who were the people who witnessed it first hand since it wasn't Matthew, Mark, Luke and John

ValeeLove:
Luke 2:2 says "this was the first census..." It was multiple.

Pardon me,but I dont rate bible history. It has contradictions and misinformations

jaephoenix:
Pardon me,but I dont rate bible history. It has contradictions and misinformations

mention the contradictions and misinformations.

jaephoenix:
So who were the people who witnessed it first hand since it wasn't Matthew, Mark, Luke and John

Matthew and John witnessed it first hand. Mark got his from Peter and Luke was a historian, he interviewed the desciples and researched.

LordReed:
Bro how do you KNOW Matthew and John wrote the books?

I know it the same way I know history. The documentations, research, archeological evidence, external literature and references.