₦airaland Forum

triplechoice:
I'm not obligated to answer personal hypotheticals about my children. They're irrelevant to the actual question, which is , what is the source of morality?

But look at what your questions assume: that if I don't condemn these things, I've proven your point. That's not true. My morality isn't a checklist of things your God forbids. It's based on empathy, reason, social instincts and human being. I can evaluate each case on those grounds without needing a divine command.

More importantly, your questions are a distraction. You haven't answered the question I asked you: what evidence do you have that Yahweh actually gave the Torah, apart from the belief that he did?

Until you answer that, you're the one dodging. Your position rests on faith, not evidence. That's ok if you admit it. But you can't demand I justify my morality while refusing to justify your claim.

You see, they never answer questions. when their hypocrisy is shoved up their face. They start their whataboutism and start arguing questions never asked them.

I thought triplechoice morality comes from human instinct and empathy, so why should he protest his daughter becoming onlyfans model or working as a adult movie star in corn industry.
Awon oniro, fake people everywhere.

As we can see, atheists benefit from a moral society structured on religious moral framework. They love the morals the religion brings, the good upbringing the religion gives to children and the social order the religion teach. THEY ALL LOVE IT EVEN THOUGH THEY DENY IT.

But yet will open their mouth and condemn the WONDERFUL SUPREME GOD that gave humanity such beautiful morals.
If this is not hypocrisy, I don't know what else to call it.

GothamCities:
China has over 2 Billion people. How can a negligible fraction - 102 million people out of 2 billion decide the identity of the nation?

Stop lying. You forget we have Google. China is 1.4 Billion and decreasing. Minus Children, the elderly, the disabled, most women, and nonentities, and you'll have about 102 million left!

GothamCities:
I think you need to define what you understand by morality. Most of the examples you raised are not moral issues at all. Empathy is not morality. Conscience is not necessarily moral. There are many people who genuinely and sincerely do immoral things simply because they did not know they were wrong. Their consciences never condemned them. The conscience guides only on the basic forms of morality. But morality itself goes far beyond the basicity of the conscience. And, actually, don't start thinking that serial killers and armed robbers were never told or taught while growing up that such things are not good. I find your argument that "if you tell a child that stealing is wrong, he will not steal" very amusing.

That's why you still need to honestly answer the questions Sirtee15 threw you.

Did you, perchance, see these below?

SIRTee15:
Everything!!!! otherwise I will conclude u know nothing about morality. Morality has everything to do with public behaviour, conduct and appearance.

Now answer my question.

If your daughter brings any of these guys as her future husband, will u approve? The guy is hard-working, runs a good business, treats your daughter like a queen, respects her and also empowers her. They both love each other genuinely and its quite obvious.

Will u encourage your daughter to marry him?

If the answer is no, on what basis. What is the source of such objection

Now let's see doublespeak in action.

Since you have decided to go completely puerile let's go!
Before I answer, do you think it is because of religion that people cover their private parts?

QuinQQ:
Did you, perchance, see these below?

That can still be challenged. See the attached screenshot.

I'm not yet disputing your stand on the source of morality. My main argument is that, what you call morality is not morality in the actual sense of the word.

QuinQQ:
Stop lying. You forget we have Google. China is 1.4 Billion and decreasing. Minus Children, the elderly, the disabled, most women, and nonentities, and you'll have about 102 million left!

That's not lying. It was just my approximate thinking without consulting any data sources. Howbeit, your 102 million against 1.4billion still holds no water. You cannot call 1.4 billion people atheists just because 102 million are atheists.

GothamCities:
That can still be challenged. See the attached screenshot.

I'm not yet disputing your stand on the source of morality. My main argument is that, what you call morality is not morality in the actual sense of the word.

We are discussing source of morality NOT what is morality. But if yiu want to know what morality is, read below!

GothamCities:
That's not lying. It was just my approximate thinking without consulting any data sources. Howbeit, your 102 million against 1.4billion still holds no water. You cannot call 1.4 billion people atheists just because 102 million are atheists.

Did you read this part?
"Minus Children, the elderly, the disabled, most women, and nonentities"

QuinQQ:
We are discussing source of morality NOT what is morality. But if yiu want to know what morality is, read below!

And that definition defeats your position regarding empathy. Empathy does not come by deciding what is right or wrong.

Yes, I'm aware that the discussion is about the source of morality. I'm not disputing your stand on that. I'm only making you know that your references and examples are not related to morality in anyway.

QuinQQ:
Did you read this part?
"Minus Children, the elderly, the disabled, most women, and nonentities"

No, that still does not justify calling 1.4billion people atheists. Children, the elderly and the nonentities are all capable of having religion.

GothamCities:
And that definition defeats your position regarding empathy. Empathy does not come by deciding what is right or wrong.

Yes, I'm aware that the discussion is about the source of morality. I'm not disputing your stand on that. I'm only making you know that your references and examples are not related to morality in anyway.

Are you ok at all? Is empathy the only thing mentioned below. And by the way, define empathy

GothamCities:
No, that still does not justify calling 1.4billion people atheists. Children, the elderly and the nonentities are all capable of having religion.

If all the head of households in a country are atheists...

QuinQQ:
Are you ok at all? Is empathy the only thing mentioned below. And by the way, define empathy

You may check yourself out man.

You mentioned empathy. I'm arguing about what you mentioned, not the screenshot! The list on the screenshots didn't make up your original list, did it?

QuinQQ:
If all the head of households in a country are atheists...

And who told you that all 102miliion are heads of households? Who also told you that the religion of the head of an household is the religion of his household?

GothamCities:
You may check yourself out man.

You mentioned empathy. I'm arguing about what you mentioned, not the screenshot! The list on the screenshots didn't make up your original list, did it?

Read! That can't be so hard. Read the screenshots before you comment

QuinQQ:
Read! That can't be so hard. Read the screenshots before you comment

I have told you that the screenshots are not my point of argument. I'm arguing with your own original list - basically empathy and conscience.

GothamCities:
And who told you that all 102miliion are heads of households? Who also told you that the religion of the head of an household is the religion of his household?

Commonsense told me.
Who told you they are not?

GothamCities:
I have told you that the screenshots are not my point of argument. I'm arguing with your own original list - basically empathy and conscience.

Ok, it is settled, I am dealing with a slowpoke. Is the thread about what I once posted or about sources of mirality??

QuinQQ:
Since you have decided to go completely puerile let's go!
Before I answer, do you think it is because of religion that people cover their private parts?

U see what I'm talking about! They never answer questions. always going about whataboutism, now its time to define what is nudity.

very rich coming from group of people who thinks having nude beaches is a form of personal choice and non sexual social acceptance.

My next question.

If I open a corn adult movie studio in your community and start recruiting your grown up daughters as actresses. Am I being immoral?

If the community decide to chase me out of their town because I'm corrupting their daughters and encouraging immoral behaviour, will u agree with them? Even though I have not forced or coerced anyone to work for me and none of the girls complained of abuse or exploitation.

In what way am I corrupting the society with my business. What is the source of that morality that makes u conclude that red light business is wrong.

I want to know the source of that morality.

SIRTee15:
U see what I'm talking about! They never answer questions. always going about whataboutism, now its time to define what is nudity.

very rich coming from group of people who thinks having nude beaches is a form of personal choice and non sexual social acceptance.

My next question.

If I open a corn adult movie studio in your community and start recruiting your grown up daughters as actresses. Am I being immoral?

If the community decide to chase me out of their town because I'm corrupting their daughters and encouraging immoral behaviour, will u agree with them? Even though I have not forced or coerced anyone to work for me and none of the girls complained of abuse or exploitation.

In what way am I corrupting the society with my business. What is the source of that morality that makes u conclude that red light business is wrong.

I want to know the source of that morality.

Now I KNOW I'm dealing with a #@%!
If you do any of those things you mentioned in an atheistic society that has never heard of religion they'll run you out of their land!

Once again, I AM A DEVOUT CHRISTIAN!!! But NOT.a hypocrite like some people!

QuinQQ:
I hope you haven't finally lost it. What has this to do with the discussion??

Please address the question he raised!
If your daughter brings any of these men home and told you he is loving and caring will you give your approval to the union?

If not what exactly will be your reason since the man in question is kind and loving to your daughter?🙂

It's impossible to raise a family in any society that is irreligious!

Today Chinese are working on this because they felt Western and Arabic nations used religion to enslave Africa so to avoid this they declared there shouldn't be any state religion which means each person is free to practice his or her own religion without disturbing others. So as long as you don't preach what you believe to anyone the Chinese welcome you.
But this world social order is gradually collapsing, it's just a pity that instead of noticing this most are thinking about how things will work without turning to God or religion.
For your information intelligent people are waking up to the fact that the use of money in itself is a scam and a new way of slavery so instead of working for money which keeps them below average many now works to improve their standard of living, don't think unemployment makes people fear anymore as they can see the employed are working from hand to mouth.
So what is my point?
Whether you believe in religion or not a time is coming and it's fact approaching when money will become useless and we will return to trade by bata.
Until then continue arguing aimlessly on false religion instead of humbly asking:

What should religion achieve in the human society?🙂

QuinQQ:
Ok, it is settled, I am dealing with a slowpoke. Is the thread about what I once posted or about sources of mirality??

You're probably dealing with yourself.

Was it the screenshot that originally referred to empathy as morality? Forget about the screenshots and deal with the fact that empathy has nothing to do with morality.

QuinQ:
Now I KNOW I'm dealing with a #@%!
If you do any of those things you mentioned in an atheistic society that has never heard of religion they'll run you out of their land!

Once again, I AM A DEVOUT CHRISTIAN!!! But NOT.a hypocrite like some people!

😂🤣😂😅🤣😂😅

So u were so appalled by the immoral examples I gave here that u quickly remember u are a Christian and started confessing the faith lest u become lost in your own thoughtless and confused arguments.

Imagine a child of God defending atheism morality derived from liberal secularism.

FYI, every example I gave here is perfectly legal and moral in many western countries.

Corn industry and recruiting women for such acts is very legal in California.
There are numerous nude beaches in Spain, France, Croatia etc
Denmark and Dutch celebrate nude bike day when u can ride a bicycle completely naked for the whole day.

Some universities in America celebrate return to school by jumping into cold lakes naked, this is perfectly legal.
In Canada, a 14 yr old do not even need parents permission to start taking puberty blockers.
And u can be jailed in America if u refuse to render service for homosexual couples because u feel the union is immoral.

These are societies that have rejected God and his values, then embrace liberal secularism as the tenet of their morality.

And that's why we say atheism breeds immoral and bankrupt generation not fit to sustain or maintain a society.

QuinQQ:
Commonsense told me.
Who told you they are not?

Indeed common sense is not common.

Are you kidding me?

Liberal secularism and rise of immoral behaviour will be the nail in the coffin of western nations. A nation that reject God and his values cannot thrive or last. It will eventually collapse.

Believing anyone can be whatever he or she desires so long as no one is harmed is just a step away from lawlessness.

In the UK, u can enter a store, pick items from the shelves and walk away without paying for them. And it's a crime for someone to stop u or assaults u in the process. U can actually call the police and report the person who assaulted u while trying to steal!!!!

Atheism is evil and not fit for any rational society. Society needs order and structure to thrive and this comes from an absolute morality that everyone is subjected.

SIRTee15:
😂🤣😂😅🤣😂😅

So u were so appalled by the immoral examples I gave here that u quickly remember u are a Christian and started confessing the faith lest u become lost in your own thoughtless and confused arguments.

Imagine a child of God defending atheism morality derived from liberal secularism.

FYI, every example I gave here is perfectly legal and moral in many western countries.

Corn industry and recruiting women for such acts is very legal in California.
There are numerous nude beaches in Spain, France, Croatia etc
Denmark and Dutch celebrate nude bike day when u can ride a bicycle completely naked for the whole day.

Some universities in America celebrate return to school by jumping into cold lakes naked, this is perfectly legal.
In Canada, a 14 yr old do not even need parents permission to start taking puberty blockers.
And u can be jailed in America if u refuse to render service for homosexual couples because u feel the union is immoral.

These are societies that have rejected God and his values, then embrace liberal secularism as the tenet of their morality.

And that's why we say atheism breeds immoral and bankrupt generation not fit to sustain or maintain a society.

GothamCities:
You're probably dealing with yourself.

Was it the screenshot that originally referred to empathy as morality? Forget about the screenshots and deal with the fact that empathy has nothing to do with morality.

MaxInDHouse:
It's impossible to raise a family in any society that is irreligious!

Today Chinese are working on this because they felt Western and Arabic nations used religion to enslave Africa so to avoid this they declared there shouldn't be any state religion which means each person is free to practice his or her own religion without disturbing others. So as long as you don't preach what you believe to anyone the Chinese welcome you.
But this world social order is gradually collapsing, it's just a pity that instead of noticing this most are thinking about how things will work without turning to God or religion.
For your information intelligent people are waking up to the fact that the use of money in itself is a scam and a new way of slavery so instead of working for money which keeps them below average many now works to improve their standard of living, don't think unemployment makes people fear anymore as they can see the employed are working from hand to mouth.
So what is my point?
Whether you believe in religion or not a time is coming and it's fact approaching when money will become useless and we will return to trade by bata.
Until then continue arguing aimlessly on false religion instead of humbly asking:

What should religion achieve in the human society?🙂

Sorry, you folks are simply too mixed up for me. Religion can truly mess people up. This is why Nigeria is about the most corrupt country you’ll see despite having a church at every corner and countless mosques.
One is stuck on "empathy" not being source of morality without defining empathy
The other is so mixed up by JW that he actually can't reason straight anymore but doesn't realize it.
The other is so mixed up he doesn't see the absurdity of comparing his extremely religious but extremely corrupt country to a country where things actually work and 99% of his people would do anything to move there!

READ THE SCREENSHOTS BELOW!
There is basic human sense of decency that is totally independent of religion. That is why human beings don't have sex in the open like other fellow animals. That is why human beings cover their private parts unlike other animals. None of that has anything to do with religion.
I think you folks are confusing decency with morality. People's sense of decency vary and may or may NOT be due to religion. One person may be extremely repulsed by someone sticking their finger in their nose in public, while another won't mind at all. In some Western countries a woman breastfeeding in public is considered very indecent and banned by law, but we totally see nothing wrong with it in Nigeria. None of that has anything to do with religion but with the person's or society's developed sense of decency!

So wether a parent accepts a good but half naked man for his daughter depends on the parent's developed sense of decency and that sense of decency may be due to religion and also may NOT be due to religion at all!

**In China members of CCP are bared from holding religious beliefs or belonging to any religion, EVEN PRIVATELY. Everybody of note or of any influence is a member of the CCP. It has 107 million members

SIRTee15:
You see, they never answer questions. when their hypocrisy is shoved up their face. They start their whataboutism and start arguing questions never asked them.

No.I haven't displayed any hypocrisy. You don't seem to know what the word means. Hypocrisy is claiming one standard and living by another one. I haven't condemned morality while practicing it. I have never said people shouldn't be moral. I have maintained that morality comes from empathy, social instincts, reasoning, culture and human experience . I live by that. There's no contradiction.

And no, I'm not "arguing questions never asked". I'm asking you to justify your claim about the source of morality. That's directly to the point. That's not whataboutism . I told you the source of my morality. You don't just like the answer, so you ignored it and moved on to personal hypotheticals.

I thought triplechoice morality comes from human instinct and empathy, so why should he protest his daughter becoming onlyfans model or working as a adult movie star in corn industry.
Awon oniro, fake people everywhere..

This is the point you're not listening to yourself. You're mocking me for having moral standards based on empathy and social instincts, while demanding that I must have moral standards.

If you're struggling to understand it, empathy means I care about my daughter's well-being. Social instincts mean I want to protect those close to me. That's exactly why I would speak up if I thought she was making a harmful choice. A person who doesn't care what happens to their child isn't more moral, they're less moral..

I'm not pretending to be something I'm not. I don't subscribe to your God. I still try to live a decent live. That's not fake, that's just a human being with a different world view than yours.. You seem to think secular morality means anything goes.. It doesn't. Secular morality says, consider harm, consider well -being, consider fairness, consider what kind of society we want. Those are real standards. And they can absolutely lead me to say, "I don't want this for my daughter"

Now that I've answered the question you assumed I was ruining away from, I hope you'Ii return the favour by answering mine.

What evidence do you have, apart from belief that Yahweh gave those moral codes?

As we can see, atheists benefit from a moral society structured on religious moral framework. They love the morals the religion brings, the good upbringing the religion gives to children and the social order the religion teach. THEY ALL LOVE IT EVEN THOUGH THEY DENY IT.

But yet will open their mouth and condemn the WONDERFUL SUPREME GOD that gave humanity such beautiful morals.
If this is not hypocrisy, I don't know what else to call it.

You're conflating two different things. I can acknowledge that religion has done good things, built hospitals, schools, charities and promoted social order , without believing in irs gods. I don't have to believe a tree was planted by a god before I can appreciate its fruit.. I don't also have to believe in Yahweh to appreciate the good parts of Christian moral teaching.


Religion is not the only source of morality. Secular societies like Sweden, Denmark, and Japan have some of the highest standards of living, lowest crime rates and strongest social trust in the world. If religion were the only source of morality those societies should be failing apart. But they're not

QuinQ:
Sorry, you folks are simply too mixed up for me. Religion can truly mess people up. This is why Nigeria is about the most corrupt country you’ll see despite having a church at every corner and countless mosques.
One is stuck on "empathy" not being source of morality without defining empathy
The other is so mixed up by JW that he actually can't reason straight anymore but doesn't realize it.
The other is so mixed up he doesn't see the absurdity of comparing his extremely religious but extremely corrupt country to a country where things actually work and 99% of his people would do anything to move there!

READ THE SCREENSHOTS BELOW!
There is basic human sense of decency that is totally independent of religion. That is why human beings don't have sex in the open like other fellow animals. That is why human beings cover their private parts unlike other animals. None of that has anything to do with religion.
I think you folks are confusing decency with morality. People's sense of decency vary and may or may NOT be due to religion. One person may be extremely repulsed by someone sticking their finger in their nose in public, while another won't mind at all. In some Western countries a woman breastfeeding in public is considered very indecent and banned by law, but we totally see nothing wrong with it in Nigeria. None of that has anything to do with religion but with the person's or society's developed sense of decency!

So wether a parent accepts a good but half naked man for his daughter depends on the parent's developed sense of decency and that sense of decency may be due to religion and also may NOT be due to religion at all!

**In China members of CCP are bared from holding religious beliefs or belonging to any religion, EVEN PRIVATELY. Everybody of note or of any influence is a member of the CCP. It has 107 million members

Says someone who says China is atheist because of 102m people in a 1.4billion population. Someone who thinks it's common sense to conclude that the 102 million people are heads of households and therefore therefore, their religious positions are that of their households.

Who is messed up? Someone who claims empathy as morality to defend against the source of morality? I have asked you to tell me how empathy is morality if morality is the knowledge of right and wrong according to your own screenshots.