₦airaland Forum

Sleekfingers:
Judas was born to betray Jesus . According to the Bible.
So Judas came to fulfill the prophecy. He doesn't need to repent or ask for forgiveness. He was born for that purpose.
According to some scholars and deep Christian thinkers . They see Judas as a Saint .

Roycemadeit:
Judas Iscariot wasn't acting on his own volition. He was used to fulfil what God had already planned and was discarded after, left to burn for all eternity.

Consider these examples:

God hardened Pharaoh's heart, even when the narrative says Pharaoh wanted to let Israel go: Exodus 9:34–35; 10:1, 20, 27; 14:4, 8.

God hardened the hearts of the Canaanite kings so they would fight Israel: Joshua 11:19–20.

In the census story, God was angry with Israel and incited David to conduct the census: David was very apologetic for his actionsz unbeknownst to him that it was God who provoked him: 2 Samuel 24:10

God sent a lying spirit into the mouths of Ahab's prophets to lead him to his destruction: 1 Kings 22:19–23; 2 Chronicles 18:18–22.

If God can harden people's hearts, influence their decisions, or send a lying spirit to deceive someone, how do we determine that Judas was acting freely or fulfilling a divine purpose?

If his betrayal was necessary to fulfil God's plan for Jesus' death, could Judas simply have refused to participate and prevented that plan from happening?

A prediction is not a command, but if an all-knowing God deliberately arranges the circumstances to ensure that a predicted event happens, the question of responsibility becomes much more complicated.

The Bible itself gives different accounts of Judas's death: Matthew 27:3–10; Acts 1:16–20. There is also the Gospel of Judas, an ancient text that presents a radically different interpretation of Judas's role, although it is not part of the biblical canon.

The usual claim that Judas was simply evil, while Peter was forgiven because he repented, overlooks the deeper question: if God orchestrated the events, was Judas really free to choose otherwise?

Dtruthspeaker:
Yes! The earth is full of children of Belial, so one of them must fall into the Plan but who is the question.

That is why Jesus Said "woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born."

And most importantly betrayal should not be done by a family member or a friend

Image123:
You don't understand that everything works together for God's good. If you like, do good or bad, God's purpose will ultimately be fulfilled. Na you must give yourself brain, and ask God for mercy.

Roycemadeit:
Your argument is that because the Bible never explicitly says God influenced Judas, he must have acted entirely on his own volition.

But does the Bible always reveal the full extent of God's involvement in human actions? Judges 14:4 says God was seeking an occasion against the Philistines through Samson.

had no involvement?

Absence of an explicit statement is not proof of absence, especially when the same Bible portrays God as directing human affairs to fulfil his purposes.

Dtruthspeaker:
No different from saying "Candidate for uncommon Blessings" and those beautiful catchy headers them Redeemed used to drop in the headlines of their bulletins in those days before they start placing beautiful scriptures that show the connection.

You can try restituting but as long as it is not accepted, you have nothing

RealSleek:
I'm the devil's advocate here..millions of people could have played Judas role, but Judas did...celebrate Judas ..period ..stop demonizing judas..he deserve a holiday like Christmas

Roycemadeit:
.
.
For aesthetics' sake, perhaps Jesus had to warn Judas so the story could portray him (Jesus) as the victim of betrayal. Jesus came specifically to die for humanity's sins, he pronounced woe on the person whose betrayal supposedly helped bring the redemption of mankind!

Judas was necessary to God's plan, why is he blamed while God gets the glory?

And if Jesus knew he would rise again in less than three days, the sacrifice was hardly equivalent to permanent death. I, Roycemadeit, would gladly endure three months of death if I knew I would return. More importantly, Satan was the real mastermind, not Judas, or should I rather say God was the real mastermind and Jesus too [/b]

ebubeson:
It was prophesied that someone will betray Jesus. .

Roycemadeit:
.
.
For aesthetics' sake, perhaps Jesus had to warn Judas so the story could portray him (Jesus) as the victim of betrayal. Jesus came specifically to die for humanity's sins, he pronounced woe on the person whose betrayal supposedly helped bring the redemption of mankind!

Judas was necessary to God's plan, why is he blamed while God gets the glory?

And if Jesus knew he would rise again in less than three days, the sacrifice was hardly equivalent to permanent death. I, Roycemadeit, would gladly endure three months of death if I knew I would return. More importantly, Satan was the real mastermind, not Judas, or should I rather say God was the real mastermind and Jesus too

Dtruthspeaker:
Wrong.

It is rather a judgement given in advance against a freewill exercised in the wrong way and direction

Dtruthspeaker:
You have come again with your confusion.

Did the Bible say God hardened his heart?
No.
Did the Bible say a lying spirit entered him?
No.

Do we not see how he operated on his own?
Yes we do.

So, you are talking rubbish

Roycemadeit:
Your argument is that because the Bible never explicitly says God influenced Judas, he must have acted entirely on his own volition.

But does the Bible always reveal the full extent of God's involvement in human actions? Judges 14:4 says God was seeking an occasion against the Philistines through Samson.

The people could see Samson acting, yet the narrative reveals a divine purpose behind it.

Why assume that what the text doesn't explicitly say about Judas proves God had no involvement?

Absence of an explicit statement is not proof of absence, especially when the same Bible portrays God as directing human affairs to fulfil his purposes.

femi4:
Again, no where is it written that when restitution is rejected, you have nothing.

Stop making doctrines up in your head

chieveboy:
Does this means Jesus left with a grudge?

Does this mean he did not forgive 77x77 times?

Does this mean Jesus let the sun go down with a grudge?


Does this mean he prayed to God while not forgiving?

StillDtruth:
Oh this is reason why atheists tell you people that you don't think.
Reason and common sense tells you. But if you won't think or choose to behave like you don't know reason and common sense always operates, then maybe you should hear Amos

Amos 5:22
“Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts [fattened cattle].

Roycemadeit:
So, if Judas repented, then Jesus coming would have been in vain?

Read everything I had written don't pick a part to respond... You can't be doing your blindsidedness every time

StillDtruth:
Reasonable people do not celebrate betrayers and murderers only children of Belial do

femi4:
Amos is talking about sacrifice/offerings here NOT RESTITUTION

Why not use AI or dictionary and pretend that that you know the meaning of restitution

k2money:
Person wey regret his actions and return the bribe no repent? Ọgá that Bible story full of lies

StillDtruth:
How do you reason Nepaly?

Did Jesus not come even before Judas?

You should try keeping quiet when you don't have any sensible thing to say

Vdestr0:
Tell am ooo.

See all the people that would have betrayed Jesus? Dem plenty. Proving it didn't have to be Judas.

Dtruthspeaker:
You are talking rubbish.
Any son of Belial would have betrayed Him. As your pastors say "they did not write his name"

Vdestr0:
That one? I have noticed him. The eve spirits wey dey his body, eh,

Sleekfingers:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oga, Judas Iscariot na saint ... You think , he became Jesus discipline by coincidence?
Even your Jesus knew , he was the one...

StillDtruth:
How do you reason Nepaly?

Did Jesus not come even before Judas?

You should try keeping quiet when you don't have any sensible thing to say

Roycemadeit:
Judas Iscariot wasn't acting on his own volition. He was used to fulfil what God had already planned and was discarded after, left to burn for all eternity.

Consider these examples:

God hardened Pharaoh's heart, even when the narrative says Pharaoh wanted to let Israel go: Exodus 9:34–35; 10:1, 20, 27; 14:4, 8.

God hardened the hearts of the Canaanite kings so they would fight Israel: Joshua 11:19–20.

In the census story, God was angry with Israel and incited David to conduct the census: David was very apologetic for his actionsz unbeknownst to him that it was God who provoked him: 2 Samuel 24:10

God sent a lying spirit into the mouths of Ahab's prophets to lead him to his destruction: 1 Kings 22:19–23; 2 Chronicles 18:18–22.

If God can harden people's hearts, influence their decisions, or send a lying spirit to deceive someone, how do we determine that Judas was acting freely or fulfilling a divine purpose?

If his betrayal was necessary to fulfil God's plan for Jesus' death, could Judas simply have refused to participate and prevented that plan from happening?

A prediction is not a command, but if an all-knowing God deliberately arranges the circumstances to ensure that a predicted event happens, the question of responsibility becomes much more complicated.

The Bible itself gives different accounts of Judas's death: Matthew 27:3–10; Acts 1:16–20. There is also the Gospel of Judas, an ancient text that presents a radically different interpretation of Judas's role, although it is not part of the biblical canon.

The usual claim that Judas was simply evil, while Peter was forgiven because he repented, overlooks the deeper question: if God orchestrated the events, was Judas really free to choose otherwise?

DeltaBachelor:
Funny people…..Without Judas Iscariot, will you all have been saved ? Answer o !

Yes, it is quite unfortunate that Judas had to be the one to commit the sin of betrayal, but there was nothing he could do about it because it had already been pre-destined/written. Even the 30 pieces of silver sef, Baba nor take one coin inside before e go hang himself when e eye clear.


Just pray that you aren’t a vessel of dishonor because everyone in life has been created to fulfill a particular purpose. Take it or leave it

Roycemadeit:
.....

StillDtruth:
Circular argument.
The thread already shows your point and that it was addressed.