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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG (4417 Views)
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Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by nobilis: 10:39am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: Euthanasia is not murder. Not all killing is murder. That is why a court differentiates manslaughter from murder. Euthanasia isn't murder neither is it even manslaughter. And I still reiterate, baloney or not, unless you've been in a particular situation, do not judge. For example, unless you've had a family member who in what is medically known as permanent vegetative state, you won't understand. When you've spent all your money trying to sustain someone who is living off of machines and who has no hope of waking up, then you'll understand. Have you ever wondered why people who are in advanced stages of illness sign DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) forms in hospitals. Have you ever been faced with the prospect of raising a rapist's or an armed robber's child. Has any of your female relatives been raped before and she got pregnant? Or has your wife been raped by an armed robber and she got pregnant for him? Until you've been in these situations, stop using the morality card. Never you judge these issues from the sidelines. The Catholic Church will always try to save its face as the traditionalist that it is. Secondly, no Pope will want to be responsible for any such sweeping changes in the church's theology. That's why when anyone becomes pope, even if he was a liberal and progressive before, he becomes conservative after he becomes pope (Benedict XVI is a perfect example). Before any such changes occur, an ecumenical council will have to be the one to decide that. And make such changes. And such contemporary issues as contraception, euthanasia, abortion, etc, became prominent after the conclusion of Vatican Council II. As for that definition of marriage you gave above, who gave such a definition. Pray tell. 3 Likes |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by Kay17: 11:09am On Oct 11, 2014 |
@ubenedictus I hardly understand how you able to separate an individual from his actions when his actions are what defines the individual's identity. Let me break down a bit, a true Christian proves his faith through his actions. His actions are his fruits by which he is known. Equally a sinner is known to be a sinner by his sins. So it is an abstract to love a person and then hate his actions; to persecute his crimes without persecuting his person. The Catholic Church in he past, has burnt heretics for their heresy, hence it is misplaced to love a heretic and burn his person for his heresy. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by italo: 3:10pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
Kay17: If your child steals from you, would you hate both him and his crime? It seems like you Atheists just deliberately shut down a part of your brains when you want to criticize religion. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by Kay17: 3:34pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
italo: I punish the child. If a man commits murder, the State punishes him with the death penalty! The murderer loses his own life for his actions. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by Nobody: 3:35pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
nobilis: Shut your trap noob!!! You no nothing but to quote from your useless book. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by italo: 3:38pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
nobilis: This post is riddled with fallacies and ignorant assumptions. 1. How is euthanasia not murder? 2. Do I have to be in a situation to know whether an action right or wrong? Wait until you're Pope then before you judge whether our Popes are right or wrong. Rubbish! 3. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI was always conservative. 4. No Council can change a dot in the teachings of the Catholic Church. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by italo: 3:42pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
Kay17: italo: It's a "yes" or "no" question. The kind that you dodge by all means to hide the giant flaws in your thinking. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by plaetton: 4:02pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
kemqox:As usual, Satan takes the blame for the schizophrenic words of god. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by wiegraf: 4:58pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: let's start with the double speak. don't worry about the rest, yet... |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by nobilis: 8:48pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
italo: Okay oo. I'm being fallacious. I truly accept. 1. There are 3 categories of Euthanasia: A. Voluntary euthanasia(this isn't murder because the patient or patient's relatives give their consent before it is carried out and it is legal in most countries) B. Non-voluntary euthanasia(this isn't murder as well but it is illegal in all countries) C. Involuntary euthanasia (it is this one that is Murder). 2. As for judging the rightness or wrongness of a situation, I asked you two questions which you haven't answered: A. What will you do when you have spent every farthing you have, and sold all your properties in order to raise money to sustain the life of a family member who is on life support machines or who is in permanent vegetative state? When you have nothing left to pay the bills, what do you do next? B. What will you do when your wife or your sister is raped by an armed robber and she becomes pregnant for him? Will you allow your sister or wife to carry that pregnancy till delivery and then will you raise the offspring of an armed robber? These are simple straightforward questions. Answer them. 3. As for Benedict XVI, he was very liberal when he was Fr. Joseph Ratzinger. He started becoming conservative around the period when he was made Archbishop of Munich by Pope John Paul II. Please revisit your history books. 4. As for Church councils not changing an iota of the church's teachings, you are unmistakably wrong. For example, the Vatican Council II shifted the old, Traditional Latin Order of the Mass aside in favour of a new order of the Mass. Check history properly. The way the Mass is celebrated today is not exactly the way it was celebrated pre-Vatican Council II. The Second Vatican Council changed the position of the priest during mass: from facing the Altar and backing the congregation to facing the congregation. The Second Vatican Council changed the position of the Tabernacle. Before the Vatican II, the tabernacle used to be on the Altar. But the Second Vatican council said the tabernacle should be moved to a separate revered position in the church. The Catholic Church never accepted that people outside the Catholic faith will ever receive Salvation. In fact, Pope Pius XII pronounced anathema on anyone who is not a Catholic. It was the Second Vatican Council that changed that. In fact, some non-Catholic prelates participated in that Second Vatican Council. Go and read documents of the Second Vatican Council especially "Lumen Gentium" and "Gaudium et Spes". Now that's for Vatican II. The Council of Trent made so many changes in the church's teachings and practices too. The Council of Trent was convened when the Church was trying to deal with Martin Luther's Reformation. And some other councils. Read them up. So I wonder how I'm being fallacious and ignorant. 2 Likes |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by nobilis: 9:07pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
ifeness: What exactly is this one talking about? Do you derive a certain pleasure from quoting people's comments (that you didn't even understand in the first place) and then making unrelated comments? Before you quote a post, make sure you understand it perfectly well. So with all due respect, shut your own trap when understanding and enlightenment is slow to dawn upon you. 2 Likes |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by kemqox: 10:20pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
nobilis: Kaigama's stand doesn't reflect catholic's nor the nigerian catholic bishop's stand. Besides, the news has not been confirmed of him, ok. But then, my level of moral maturity cannot be compromised by whatsoever any Church leader believes is in his bible or theology that contradicts the PURE UNDILUTED will of God. Not even you, that fearlessly level heinous blatant contradiction against prophet Ezekiel, just to justify your mischief. An example of what prophets means when they weigh Israelite disobedience to other nations is: If a lay married man has extra-marital affair with another woman, people can bland it any simpler names like ''he made love to his secretary,'' ''he slept with his neighbour'' etc, but when it is any Reverend or other clergy tries it just once, people will shout ''SCANDAL!'' ''ATROCITY!'' ''SACRILAGE!'' etc. That is to say that ''to whom more is given, much is expected!'' Who has ever prophesise to the sodomites then? But Israel abused series of prophets given to them. You need to refer us to that baseless chapter of yours. But before you do that, pay attention to this. God himself commanded that ''No man is to have se.xual relationship with another man, God HATES that.'' Leviticus 18:20. And for you to understand how much he hates it, which led to the destruction of Sodom, he sternly commanded further in Leviticus 20:13 that ''If a man has se.xual relationship with another man, they have done a DISGUSTING thing, and both shall be put to DEATH!'' according to GNB translation. So, take it now that God ''disgustingly hates'' gay practices peculiarly, QED! |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by kemqox: 10:42pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
masonkz: What a waste. Sorry. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by beryl04(m): 10:44pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
*clears throat* Ummmh, ehen,today is #NationalComingOutDay So no comments guys. 2 Likes
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Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by Kay17: 10:51pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
italo: I hate the child as a thief, hence I try to change his/her behaviour. Nonetheless my hatred is directed at the child's person. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by kemqox: 11:07pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
GSKing: You devil incarnates can be so fearless to dare even the Maker Of The Universe. If some of us - the commonest men - with high burning libido of continual urge for sex can have a cause to stay away from conjugal affair at 34, 35 onwards till the right time, what about the one that can starve his flesh of nutrition for 40days and night consecutively? The one who was founding an ages long ministery for the freedom and civility of mankind? *****Sobbing***** |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by GSKing: 11:28pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
kemqox: Let it be known to all that today is #NationalComingOutDay Happy October 11, Happy Rainbow World, Happy Queer People, Happy Pride. 2 Likes |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by kemqox: 11:50pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
beryl04: I am aware that you demons are so powerful like what the Hollywoods usually portray about vampires, such as ''Im a legend 2007.'' Your single bite on people changes their se.xuall orientation. Soo contagious as the mark of the beast, as the book of Revelation foretold. All I know is that we have conquered by the blood of the lamb and by testifying, telling any curious mind of straight se.xuallity that homo is contagiously deadlier than Ebola virus. Some womanizer I know got in and detest women with passion, even now. Even the married among them still leave their wives, chasing young boys. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by kemqox: 12:03am On Oct 12, 2014 |
GSKing:
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Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by kemqox: 12:15am On Oct 12, 2014 |
beryl04: Exchanging words with incorrigible atheists is simply allowing them chances of argument, so they remain stubonly unrepentant to the grave. But don't say that you never knew that God HATES homo, in Leviticus 18:20 QED! |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by kemqox: 1:10am On Oct 12, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: In other words, we should kiss the gay after they did it, serve them delicious food and drinks, tickle their chin and smilishly tell them; ''una for no do that thing na hahaha.'' Moral Painters twisting simple religious matters since 500BC. There is no amount or quality of white paint you put on a sepulcher that can make the rotten corps in it good enough to behold. Look at the magnitude of mess you made of our doctrine. Tchewwww! Even common mast.urbation has never be seen considerate enough to grant it venial status. You shall know how much bad this thing is when your little boy of primary or secondary school age is subjected adult diaper usage in your house, his character changed girlish, delay or deny you opportunity of seeing your grand children. That will be when you shall really feel like...
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Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by kemqox: 1:41am On Oct 12, 2014 |
nikkyshyne: You sound like a les.bian. You shall grow to understand the magnitude of threat this thing pose to straight marriages, and procreation. Or should I pray you get married to a ho.mo man. Then you shall have a bitter taste of unhappy married life. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by Nobody: 4:38am On Oct 12, 2014 |
kemqox: Sorry for yourself |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by nobilis: 5:43am On Oct 12, 2014 |
kemqox: I wonder how this your interpretation has got anything to do with what was written in Ezekiel chapter 16, from verse 45 till around verse 51 or thereabouts. And I wonder how I'm leveling falsehood against your revered prophet. As for homosexual practices being an abomination before God, I saw that in Leviticus. And I also saw so many other things that were mentioned as abominations in the bible that people still do today. And in fact the punishment prescribed for those other abominations is the same as the punishment as that for homosexual. And take note, the bible never said being a homosexual is an "abomination". What ur bible said is that engaging in homosexual practices is an "abomination". Both are different things. And that is exactly what Bishop Kaigama is saying. So I wonder where your holier-than-thou attitude arose from. As though the bishop has committed a sin. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by nobilis: 6:01am On Oct 12, 2014 |
kemqox: What exactly are you talking about? What exactly is the threat gay marriages pose to straight marriages? Are you trying to say that if gay marriages are legalised in Nigeria, people will stop being straight? So you claim to be straight yet you have no confidence in your sexuality. You feel it is something that can be snatched away from you? No wonder you're so openly homophobic. Because you feel the threat. And like I mentioned somewhere else on NL, history has always shown that the more openly homophobic you are, the higher the chances that you're a deeply closeted homosexual. Straight people don't care whether someone is gay or not. They don't feel threatened because they know, they are aware, they are confident that nothing can ever affect or change their love for p**sy(for straight men) or change their love for d**ks(for straight women). They feel no threat. Many straight couples in the West co-exist peacefully with gay couples. I wonder the threat gay marriages has posed to straight marriages in countries like Netherlands that were among the first to legalise gay marriages. And lastly, you're telling her to wait until she marries a gay man and she'll see how unhappy her marriage will be. Now tell me what is the essence of the whole gay marriage thing. Is it not so that gay people can be with whoever it is that they love? In Nigeria, gay people are getting married to people of the opposite sex just to save face and remove family pressures. And that leads to so many loveless marriages everywhere. But when a man is allowed to marry whoever he wants, women won't be condemned to marrying men who may not truly love them and who are not attracted to them. 2 Likes |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by nobilis: 6:16am On Oct 12, 2014 |
kemqox: Honestly, sir, I don't know how old you are but from your words, it shows you have so many things to learn about life. You say Ubenedictus has watered down your doctrine just because he gave you a quote from Catechism of the Catholic Church. I gave you quotations from the bible and you accuse me of leveling contradictions against your holy prophet. I wonder from where you built your own doctrines. If you say the teachings of Jesus Christ are the basis of doctrine (which is commendable by the way), I'll also tell you that Jesus Christ never mentioned anything for or against homosexuality. So I wonder. As for gay people not giving grandchildren to their parents, sorry to say but you're so naïve. The desire to have children is an individual thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. Remove parental pressure for grandkids from most Nigerian marriages, you will see that most straight people do not want to have children. And the same way, there are many gay people who want to children of their own. So don't tie the desire to have children or the lack of desire for children to sexuality. They are not related. 1 Like |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by texanomaly(f): 11:34pm On Oct 16, 2014 |
kemqox: "Whoever fights "monsters" should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you." ~Friedrich Nietzsche 3 Likes |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by Weah96: 3:48am On Oct 17, 2014 |
kemqox: Voluntary starvation is one thing, turning down p:ussy is another. I guess it depends on the girl. Jesus could not have turned down a n)ude Nicki Minaj, even with the silicon seeping through her glutes. |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by gidjah(m): 7:58am On Oct 17, 2014 |
NO MUCH TO SAY but this,let us do d bidding of him who we claim to serve(weahter it be god or his enemy d devil)we shall all know who's bidding we are on to via d kind of decisions we take in our day2 day activities.my question is this;how do u show some ones act is bad witout purnishin or giving penalty against such act?when god said no sinner wil go un purnished what does he mean by dat?how do show hatred 4sin when we choose to pamper d1 commiting d evil act?God LoveS The Whole World,he hates sin,he loves sinners but he'l yet purnish the said sinner if he errs,how do we relate that?gay is not just about sex,it is going contrary to gods plan 4human production.if God SayS Be Fruitful & Multiply,what does gay says?...Go into extinction!!we shal love every gay man,but we shal violently condemn & reject every act of gay practice in our society,we shal neva be friendly wit such evil acts!we shal kip condemin such act daily.i'll love my gay brother,if he is sick,i shall try be there 4him but i will stil hate d sin |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by gidjah(m): 8:16am On Oct 17, 2014 |
TOO MANY CHURCH GOERS SPEAKIN LIKE ATHEISTS ON THIS FORUM,no wonder the sister religion will never respect you ,always contradictin one another,selfish aims all around,turning d holy scriptures up side down ever since christ came,and this shall soon come to pass {When Christ ComeS}Every Where U find Catholics, EXPECT the UNEXPECTED!!! |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by Weah96: 6:33pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
kemqox: Homosexuality poses a threat to straight marriages? Hahaha. Where did you get that idea? Are you gay? Too many people are having children nowadays. Useless children. Gays are doing everyone a favor. 2 Likes |
Re: Stop Punishing Gay Nigerians" -jos Archbishop Ignatius Kaigamatells FG by Ubenedictus(m): 2:10am On Oct 18, 2014 |
Kay17:i do not know up to 3 saints who are sinless, so I'm right if I say, the saint sins and good is found in the very worst sinners. God loves in an interesting way, we are loved irrespective of our sins. God detest sin but he loves the sinner. the sin should be condemned but the sinners are taught to live better. each man is still responsible for his sins but the hatred and indignation for sins are not to be transferred to the sinner. I hope u understand it helps u see past the sin and. see the person. it is an experience |
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