₦airaland Forum

chysam:
Brethren,I have been following all your comments since inception and just can't hold back laughter.The greatest of blessings would be on the guy that shared this post.It will indeed be an eye opener to those who are still in darkness and operating under the influence of inducement,ignorance and indoctrination.
I was a hardcore Catholic as a youth and would have killed for Mary if that opportunity came my way.It is very difficult to explain the religion of the catholics because in Christian matters they always try to argue out their points like juries on judicial contract.They have so much applied mere human intelligence in defending their faith so much that bibles used by any other denomination is unreal.However when they quote from their own version we read similar informations and the corrolations in alignment. They argue spiritual matters based purely on researches and findings by mere mortals whose primary aim always is to induce readers into glorifying their works.They attach so much importance to Languages spoken in Greece and Italy and feel that understanding them is a major step to God's kingdom.For the little minds,let me educate you now that no language is greater than another.Every language is equal to another and has the same value.God made it so.So if you stand before a crowd taking pride in speaking Latin as an old man,then you are making a very big fool of yourself because in countries where those languages originated,toddlers who still wet their beds and infact defecate uncontolably speak them better.


The bone of contention here is who Mary was?.
We all know who she was as is indicative of the Catholic bible as well.But because Catholics feel the writers of Mary's history did not do so in full,they felt there was need to expanciate and elaborate further.This elaboration however became a human tradition outside the bible and their own bible.A wise question here is why were the early christians who were Catholics as they say attach insignificant importance to Mary that they never realised until now that she was their intercessor on spiritual matters?.A most foolish way to defend oneself is to argue whether or not every thing that happened in bible times is included in the bible.Only relevant matters that would be of benefit to believers were recorded and any that was recorded was explicitly narrated and concluded up to a meaningful and reasonable understandng.In Mary's case,Isaiah would not have been daft not to add that after Mary's birth,she would go on to become the transporter of prayers made to her son and God.Even if he was,God's angel would have delivered the message in full.Are we also aware that Mary had parents?.Supposing her parents did not give birth to her?.So her father and mother too are equally blessed for giving birth to a maiden who gave birth to the Christ,they too deserve to be honored.The book of Psalm confirms that Jesus' mother had other children and the Catholic strongly believe in the Psalm of David.So why all this rigmaroling?.Let anyone who can quote this psalmic verse out of context do if he can.69:8-9

The issue related to worshipping Mary pulled me out of Catholic.In addition to keeping some informations unexplainably sacred and making them an exclusive concern of the so called exalted clergies who constantly made us believe the decisions from the Vatican are unquestionable.Jesus kept answering questions from both the standards and the poors until his death and even after.The catholics worship Mary indeed, and the pressure is so much on them to reverse such dogmatic practice but a change from this tradition will demand further amendments in other areas and this will question the innerancy of their doctrines.So what is in play here is nothing but pride and prejudice and an attempt to protect a man made doctrine that now hold millions of people under siege ignorantly.

Yes the bible said honour your parents so your days on earth would be lenghtened,the NT also confirms this.But it becomes practically wrong to honour dead parents or bow down to their lifeless images.How do you honour your parents?,by simply obeying their commands and heedng their advices,and when you are of age you take care of their needs.If honouring exceeds this,then it becomes worship.Therefore in the way and manner the Catholics honour their Mary,it is much more than a worship. Let's look at these few definitions of worship and compare them to how the Catholics honour their Mary to see if there is any difference between their honoring and worshipping.We need bear in mind that we are talking about "Religious Devotional Honour" here,and not physical honours suggested in the 10 commandments.

1.To honor and love as a deity

2.Reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

3.The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.

4.the act of showing respect and love for a god especially by praying with other people who believe in the same god.

5.The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

Conclusively,I worshipped Mary as a Catholic because I did everything contained in the definitions above to Mary's image and the Catholics still do it today.infact as I am typing now,millions of Catholics are bowing down to graven images of Maria all around the world.Every Catholic Church compound has a sacred isolated region where gigantic Mary's image of any material stands and towers above every worshipper who "must" go in there,bow down his or her head either kneeling or standing and tell the image his problems,wishes or be thankful for a received favour.In addition to this,even non catholics all over the world make billions of dollars selling graven images of Maria to gullible Catholics who have been trained only to trust and obey.Every catholic adorn his compound and rooms with lots of graven images of Mary.I want any Catholic to dispute this,then ask any interested person to go to a catholic church compound and observe this.Now what greek words do you have for bowing and kneeling to graven images of Maria?.How does this relate to the early church which you falsely claim to have established?.What about the apparitions of Mary?,does it have any corrolation with the early church?.A catholic clergy once advised a woman diagnosed with Cancer not to receive treatment because Mary has shown her a concotion to treat her,this woman died drinking the concotion.I once had brake failure while driving,as I was contemplating where to steer my car,I and my mom rather than calling Jesus' name for safety were seriously calling on mother mother,a resultant effect of indoctrination and cajole.Thank God we have finally realised the truth as is written in the book of Mathew 4:12.

The mass exodus of congregants out of Catholic border mostly around Mary and her goddess role.So many names including the Charismatic renewal has cropped up and grown out of this faith all in an effort to redress abnormalities made right by human inteligence.As glaring as this dogmatism looks,Catholic priests are so tenacious holding firm to it because of the pecuniary interest involved.I know of a young boy in my town who was forced by his parents to become a catholic priest so he could help enrich the family.That strategy worked and today the parents are truly rich because they were able to maximise the funds they received from the boy by setting themselves up with a lucrative business.But is God mocked?.The seminary is nothing to write home about as well over 60% of students become gay men before their final year.The so called Sisters sleep around with men in secret and in some cases with fathers themselves.if you can promise and swear to a sister that you won't leak the secret,she becomes yours.Masturbation is encouraged and so many other vices.All these atrocities is the singular reason why purgatory is promoted because they falsely teach it will wash away all sins.It is also the major reason why bible is distorted and always quoted out of context without any meaningful points made in tandem to subject matters.The easiest escape route of a catholic when faced with reality is to ask if the bible contain everything that happened in bible time.it becomes so astonishing hearing some who calls himself a follower of christ ask such question.While it looks so smart to them,they foolishly forget that it is not for any body to add nor subtract,or at least they should present to us one that contains everything and revolve around their belief.Instead all we hear them quote is text books and literatures just anybody could come up with in a few seconds and make it God's ordinances.when asked why he is quoting from textbook and literatures,he would tell you christians bible is not complete or have been tamered with.

Bottom line is;you bow and kneel before images of Maria and believe in God by faith.You build special structures/houses for Mary's image where you actually go to worship.You give frivolous reasons for honouring Mary in your own language,what reasons do you have for asking carcasses you call saints to pray for you also?.Where is the position of Jesus in your faith?. What meanings does the teachings of Christ have in your faith?.Why do you refuse to obey him but rather evolve your own doctrine?.Or is jesus' activities as is recorded in the bible also corrupted?.What practices in Catholic today are in alignment with the early church?. Please seek the truth according to jesus and it shall set all of you free.

Brilliant write up. God bless you.

Ichiato:
There is no teaching of the early christain leader that is against the book of the new testament. They are either in line or compliments these books.

I'm afraid, any early Christian Leader that teaches Mary as a mediator is wrong and against the Scripture.

As for the actions of the catholic church on those killings, I think pope John paul II as apologized and accepted that it was wrong for them to be killed. But I think with the level at which the bible is misinterpreted calls for understanding as to why they didn't want laymen to read it without guaidance. Even the so called reformed churches (churches that broke away from the catholic church) are not in harmony with themselves as regards the interpretation of the bible, as more individuals having read the bible without guaidance as seen the "Light" (whatever that means, like everyone before them were in darkness) and interpreted the bible to suit themselves. Was that the intensions of the above passage (Matt 24:14) because the seems like the other of the day now.
Besides catholic christains were also killed by the early reformer in england for their beliefs in the interpretation of the Bible.

Did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible? History says, "No!!!"
So why kill tens of millions of people because of what's not yours?
"He is a heretic who does not believe what the Roman hierarchy teaches. --A heretic merits the pains of fire.--By the Gospel, the canons, civil law, and custom, heretics must be burned."--148, 169 Directory for the Inquisitors (The American Textbook of Popery, page 379)
The Bible reveals that Rome is drunken with the blood of the saints ( Revelation17:6), it intoxicates her, that woman that sits on seven mountains(Revelation 17:9). For centuries, the woman that sits on seven mountains has called Bible believing Christians, "heretics", and herself, "the Church"--but she is the heretic and she is not the church, but is actually the woman of Revelation 17, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH (Revelation 17:5). Christians have known this for ages, the historical record proves this abundantly.
The Roman Catholic killed millions of Christians because they want to continue to deceive the world with their false unscriptural doctrines. Show me one way any other Church has misinterpreted the Bible and I'll show you ten of such from the Catholic Church. It is evident that the Roman Catholic is the real heretic and enemy of truth, that's why they started first by burning Scriptures in Common people Language and when that didn't work well, they started the killings. Left to the Papal Rome, no one will have a copy of the Bible.
In John 10:35, the Lord Jesus makes known that the scripture cannot be broken. Those that add or subtract from the scriptures do so at their peril. Whether some misinterpretes it or not, at least, we can read and have better understandings of the Scripture, better than what the Pope would ever teach his flocks. I can say that confidently.

Eigegejames:
And secondly you said mary adore God as angels did, but in our prayer we call on angels and to call mary is a sin to you, are they not glorifying God together?

It is very wrong to pray to Angels. You may not worship or pray to them. Trust them to reject your worship and prayers. "And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God" (Revelation 22:8-9)

Then why did you tell us here that jesus also has sisters and they are not named or numbered?

The Scripture actually confirms that Jesus had brothers and sisters.
After Mary delivered our precious Lord Jesus Christ into the world, Joseph did know his wife. Joseph and Mary indeed had children together, plenty of them. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.
Matthew 1:24-25 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Ichiato:
Please the bible also used the litral words for brother to describe other relations when it could have used their actual words to describe their relation, such example are in Genesis 13:8 and 14:12, we read of one example of brother being used to describe an extended relationship: Abraham and Lot. Though they were actually uncle and nephew, they called one another "brother." Moreover, in the New Testament, Jesus told us to call one another "brothers" in Matthew 23:8. The passage obviously does not mean to suggest that all Christians have the same physical mother. Also John 19:25 mentions, Mary the mother of Jesus as having a sister also named Mary the wife of clopas, we know that this cannot mean boilogical sisters as two sisters cannot be given the same name. So OLAADEGBU, the bible is not just for litral translations. Logically again, If the bible really wanted to describe the brothers of Jesus as Mary's children then it should have just said so. Why use the brothers of jesus to describe Mary's children, It should have just described them as Mary's children that they are. Only christ is described as the child of mary.
Read more [url]http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-case-for-mary%E2%80%99s-perpetual-virginity[/url]

muuumuuu so you think Joseph will just keep Mary for house to dey cook only abi?

Ichiato:
Please Proffdada I make arguments because I also seek knowledge and would like you to bring the same attitude. If you feel you're sure you know all, then there is little need for this argument as I do not take pleasure in answering questions I have answered earlier. I do not like typing neither do I like writing. Are you freaking serious about the bolded? When as been born in a "top notch holy temple" (whatever that means) been a critera for been "clean". Please don't make cheap arguments with me in an effort to prove that you're right. You only need to convince yourself that you're right not me.
About our worship of images, again I have answered this question before and I don't have time or the energy to explain again. please for more on why we do what you see in those pictures please read http://www.catholic.com/tracts/do-catholics-worship-statues . What you see is merely an act of veneration not worship.

so if I attempt to break any statue of Mary, there's no harm done?

[color=#990000][/color]

Ifebazz:
The only question you should expect from them is 'where is it in the bible?' But don't worry yourself much, their hearts are not open. Cheers.

.
I think grammatical deficiency is a major problem facing you guys.Astonishingly you seem to take pride in it. An angel was on an errand to the Altar to add incense to prayers being said by the saints.before transporting both to heaven.This passage clearly teach that the saints were actually in their traditional devotion offering prayers to God;Their own prayers and not someone else's prayer.And while they did this,the angel was to complement it with an incense in his hands and send both to heaven for God's reception.How does this corrolate with your false definition?. Where does it say that the Saints had prayers the received from Catholics in their hands while waiting for the angel to come and carry?.I am sure you won't ask me if catholic existed at that time because if you do,it will be a continues process of you guys shooting yourselves at your own feet.

However it is wise for us to remind us that what John saw are things that are yet to happen.it is therefore tantamount to idiocrity for one to claim he learnt his false traditions from a vision yet to occur,and in so doing misplace both the content and meaning of the vision.

Proffdada:
so if I attempt to break any statue of Mary, there's no harm done?

Now don't be silly. Why would you want to do that? If you're been accused of worshiping your bible just because you hold the word of God in high esteem, would you let someone else tear it down just to prove you're nor worshiping it? Thoes statues where made with resources, if you intentionally break any, then you will have problem with my God.
It seems you still fail to grasps what we Catholics do with images so I'm going to one more analogy to buttress my point. If a citizen or a soldier in Nigeria is seen to always salute the Nigerian flag, will he be accused of paying respect to anything else other that his country? Does that mean that the flag is useless and can as well be distroyed without having any problem with him? The flag merely brings to mind the respect he has for his country but the respect he has for his country also demands that he protects the use of the flag.

There are good and bad uses of images in religious worship. Examples of good use of images can been seen in the Bible, for example the ark of covenant which is also known as the Ark of the Testimony, is a chest described in the Book of Exodus as containing the Tablets of Stone on which the Ten Commandments were inscribed. According to some traditional interpretations of the Book of Exodus, Book of Numbers and the Letter to the Hebrews, the Ark also contained Aaron's rod, a jar of manna, and the first Torah scroll as written by Moses; however, the first of the Books of Kings says that at the time of King Solomon, the Ark contained only the two Tablets of the Law. According to the Book of Exodus, the Ark was built at the command of God, in accordance with the instructions given to Moses on Mount Sinai. God was said to have communicated with Moses "from between the two cherubim" on the Ark's cover.(It might also interest you to know that a cherubim is said to be an angelic being with wings)

The biblical account relates that about a year after the Israelites' exodus from Egypt, the Ark was created according to the pattern given to Moses by God when Israel was encamped at the foot of Mount Sinai. Thereafter the gold-plated acacia chest was carried by the Levites some 2,000 cubits in advance of the people when on the march or before the Israelite army, the host of fighting men. When the Ark was borne by Levites into the bed of the Jordan River, the waters parted as God had parted the waters of the Red Sea, opening a pathway for the entire host to pass through (Josh. 3:15–16; 4:7–18). The walls of the city of Jericho were shaken to the ground with no more than a shout from the army after the Ark of the Covenant was paraded round them for seven days by Levites accompanied by seven priests sounding seven trumpets of rams' horns (Josh. 6:4–20). When carried, the Ark was always hidden under a large veil made of skins and blue cloth, always carefully concealed, even from the eyes of the priests and the Levites who carried it.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant
The Israelites had temples, and these temples were never ordinary bricks that can easily pass for a cinema or an event centre. They also had relics in them that were held with great respect and these relics were never likened to idols

Proffdada:
muuumuuu so you think Joseph will just keep Mary for house to dey cook only abi?

You're the bigger fool to think that somethings are impossible. So Joseph marry Mary just to dey bleep her.

incofab:
I hope this answer ur question if u are really open hearted.And not here just to win arguments.
Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
The church believes that Mary is in heaven same way they believe that Peter, Paul, Mathew etc are in heaven.
So, we do pray to Mary and Saints to intercede for us but in no way denigrating the supremacy of Jesus Christ's mediatorship. That's why when we say:
Holy Mary -- pray for us
Saints -- pray for us
But When call Jesus Christ, we say "have mercy on us".
It might also interest u to knw that we pray to Mary/Saints to pray for us, to God through Jesus Christ... That is:
Man --> Mary/Saints --> Jesus Christ --> Almighty God.
Of course u know that Jesus Christ is God.
That is it, In as much as u are free to believe what u want to believe, U will be doing too much by criticizing others.
I await ur questions, if any

Jesus had at least six siblings. These included his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas as well as at least two sisters. (Matthew 13:54- Mark 6:3) Those siblings were natural children of Jesus’ mother, Mary, and her husband, Joseph. (Matthew 1:) The Bible calls Jesus “the firstborn” of Mary, which implies that she had other children..

In order to support the idea that Mary remained a virgin all her life, some have applied different meanings to the term “brothers.” For example, some feel that Jesus’ brothers were actually sons of Joseph by an earlier marriage. However, the Bible shows that Jesus inherited the legal right to the kingship promised to David. (2 Samuel 7: Luke 1:) If Joseph had been father to sons older than Jesus, the eldest of these would have been Joseph’s legal heir.12, 13;32

Could the expression refer to Jesus’ disciples, or spiritual brothers? This idea conflicts with the Scriptures, since the Bible says that at one point “his brothers were, in fact, not exercising faith in him.” (John 7:5) The Bible distinguishes Jesus’ brothers from his disciples.John 2:.12

According to another theory, Jesus’ brothers were actually his cousins. Yet, the Greek Scriptures use distinct words for “brother,” “relative,” and “cousin.” (Luke 21:16; Colossians 4:)

Mary's perpetual virginity is a late 4th century invention by Costantine.This singular invention also gave birth to the theory that Maria is the mother of God.

The appropriate questions would have been "Is this not Jesus the carpenters son?,Are these not "our" brothers and sisters with him?.

And by the way which church believe that the apostles are in heaven?.The CC?.Now tell me the name of your bible and I would tell you where to read about Jesus telling them he has a big mansion in fathers house and that upon his return,he would take them there.

@Chysam thank u so much ♍y brother/sister for this insight, God bless you, OLAADEGBU, enigmaotr n every other person that tried to show us d reality, I pray for more wisdom from God to you all n for us to make heaven on d last day in Jesus name~Amen!

enigmaotr:
I'm afraid, any early Christian Leader that teaches Mary as a mediator is wrong and against the Scripture.

Again no scriptural passage condemns Mary as a mediator and therefore cannot be wrong.

enigmaotr:
Did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible? History says, "No!!!"
So why kill tens of millions of people because of what's not yours?
"He is a heretic who does not believe what the Roman hierarchy teaches. --A heretic merits the pains of fire.--By the Gospel, the canons, civil law, and custom, heretics must be burned."--148, 169 Directory for the Inquisitors (The American Textbook of Popery, page 379)
The Bible reveals that Rome is drunken with the blood of the saints ( Revelation17:6), it intoxicates her, that woman that sits on seven mountains(Revelation 17:9). For centuries, the woman that sits on seven mountains has called Bible believing Christians, "heretics", and herself, "the Church"--but she is the heretic and she is not the church, but is actually the woman of Revelation 17, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH (Revelation 17:5). Christians have known this for ages, the historical record proves this abundantly.
The Roman Catholic killed millions of Christians because they want to continue to deceive the world with their false unscriptural doctrines. Show me one way any other Church has misinterpreted the Bible and I'll show you ten of such from the Catholic Church. It is evident that the Roman Catholic is the real heretic and enemy of truth, that's why they started first by burning Scriptures in Common people Language and when that didn't work well, they started the killings. Left to the Papal Rome, no one will have a copy of the Bible.
In John 10:35, the Lord Jesus makes known that the scripture cannot be broken. Those that add or subtract from the scriptures do so at their peril. Whether some misinterpretes it or not, at least, we can read and have better understandings of the Scripture, better than what the Pope would ever teach his flocks. I can say that confidently.

I wonder why you still brought up this matter having stated in earlier post that pope john Paul II had apologized for the falling of those church leader who committed such acts. Catholics were also killed for their own believes of the bibles meaning. Why single out the passage of revelation as referring to catholics who killed when catholics themselves were killed by reformers. Even more were killed by emperor Nero, have you ever read about emperor Nero? He also killed more Christians than both the catholics and reformers can ever claim to have killed combined. Rome was none to be anti-christain up until the time of emperor constantine. So why choose to interpreted the book of revelation as referring to catholic bishops. Your desperation to crucify the catholic church as clouded your judgment.
Again your interpretation of john 10:35 is very erroneous, when Christ made those statements there was nothing like the books of the new testaments. Do you mean that it is also wrong to have added the NT to the scriptures Christ was referring to? The use of the word " broken" was misinterpreted by you to mean "add or subtract" when Christ only meant that the scriptures can never be wrong or be unfulfilled in out lives. I suggest you read from 32-37 to see my point.

Brother, I’m sorry you’ve had to leave the CC. I’ll like to think it’s because of been badly catechised especially if you believe what you were doing was worshipping Mary. You’ve mentioned that there are droves of Catholics converting, however it might interest you to know that protestants ( especially highly educated, well researched fellows and pastors) are coming into the CC – Please check out episodes of Journey Home – EWTN on YouTube and Coming Home Network on the internet.
Please see response below

chysam:
Brethren,I have been following all your comments since inception and just can't hold back laughter.The greatest of blessings would be on the guy that shared this post.It will indeed be an eye opener to those who are still in darkness and operating under the influence of inducement,ignorance and indoctrination.
I was a hardcore Catholic as a youth and would have killed for Mary if that opportunity came my way.It is very difficult to explain the religion of the catholics because in Christian matters they always try to argue out their points like juries on judicial contract.They have so much applied mere human intelligence in defending their faith so much that bibles used by any other denomination is unreal.However when they quote from their own version we read similar informations and the corrolations in alignment. They argue spiritual matters based purely on researches and findings by mere mortals whose primary aim always is to induce readers into glorifying their works.

Your argument here is flawed because we have also relied on mortal human authors of the bible; by your logic do we discard what they wrote? Remember they didn’t even write for decades after the event. What gives you the assurance that what they wrote is to be believed?

They attach so much importance to Languages spoken in Greece and Italy and feel that understanding them is a major step to God's kingdom.For the little minds,let me educate you now that no language is greater than another.Every language is equal to another and has the same value.God made it so.So if you stand before a crowd taking pride in speaking Latin as an old man,then you are making a very big fool of yourself because in countries where those languages originated,toddlers who still wet their beds and infact defecate uncontolably speak them better.

I think this is also way off because English as we know it is a relative modern language (< 500 years). The scriptures were not written in English but only translated to it more than a 1000 years after the event. There is emphasis on the Greek, Hebrew followed by Latin because these were the languages of the day. The scriptures were expressed within a particular tradition and it is easier to interpret when you go back to these languages.

The bone of contention here is who Mary was?.
We all know who she was as is indicative of the Catholic bible as well.But because Catholics feel the writers of Mary's history did not do so in full,they felt there was need to expanciate and elaborate further.This elaboration however became a human tradition outside the bible and their own bible.A wise question here is why were the early christians who were Catholics as they say attach insignificant importance to Mary that they never realised until now that she was their intercessor on spiritual matters?.

You might want to have a read of the early church fathers and what they said about Mary. I can provide some notes if you want. The way the church works is that it only formally confirms teaching where there is a dispute or challenge. This was the case with Mary’s intercessory role.

A most foolish way to defend oneself is to argue whether or not every thing that happened in bible times is included in the bible.Only relevant matters that would be of benefit to believers were recorded and any that was recorded was explicitly narrated and concluded up to a meaningful and reasonable understandng.In Mary's case,Isaiah would not have been daft not to add that after Mary's birth,she would go on to become the transporter of prayers made to her son and God.Even if he was,God's angel would have delivered the message in full.

I’ll be interested to know how you came about this teaching because the church has been following written and oral tradition as per 2 Thess 2:15.

Are we also aware that Mary had parents?.Supposing her parents did not give birth to her?.So her father and mother too are equally blessed for giving birth to a maiden who gave birth to the Christ,they too deserve to be honored.The book of Psalm confirms that Jesus' mother had other children and the Catholic strongly believe in the Psalm of David.So why all this rigmaroling?.Let anyone who can quote this psalmic verse out of context do if he can.69:8-9

The Church focuses on matters that are true, if it deems Mary’s parents are saints then they would be honoured like the other saints. About psalm 69, What will you say about 69:4, are you saying Jesus was guilty with Sin?The reason I mention this is that one has to delve deeper to understand some of these scriptures, some of the verses cannot be applied to Jesus. In the case of 69:8 – this more closely refers to Israel and it’s sons.

The issue related to worshipping Mary pulled me out of Catholic.In addition to keeping some informations unexplainably sacred and making them an exclusive concern of the so called exalted clergies who constantly made us believe the decisions from the Vatican are unquestionable.Jesus kept answering questions from both the standards and the poors until his death and even after.The catholics worship Mary indeed, and the pressure is so much on them to reverse such dogmatic practice but a change from this tradition will demand further amendments in other areas and this will question the innerancy of their doctrines.So what is in play here is nothing but pride and prejudice and an attempt to protect a man made doctrine that now hold millions of people under siege ignorantly.

Well, it’s already been bashed that Catholics do not worship Mary. I’m intrigued to know what information is unexplainably sacred ( could this also refer to the word of God?). the church was set up with ordained ministerial priests to carry out certain roles. About questioning the Vatican’s decisions – it is written the it is the Church the is the foundation and Pillar of truth.

Yes the bible said honour your parents so your days on earth would be lenghtened,the NT also confirms this.But it becomes practically wrong to honour dead parents or bow down to their lifeless images.How do you honour your parents?,by simply obeying their commands and heedng their advices,and when you are of age you take care of their needs.If honouring exceeds this,then it becomes worship.Therefore in the way and manner the Catholics honour their Mary,it is much more than a worship. Let's look at these few definitions of worship and compare them to how the Catholics honour their Mary to see if there is any difference between their honoring and worshipping.We need bear in mind that we are talking about "Religious Devotional Honour" here,and not physical honours suggested in the 10 commandments.

1.To honor and love as a deity

2.Reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

3.The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.

4.the act of showing respect and love for a god especially by praying with other people who believe in the same god.

5.The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

Conclusively,I worshipped Mary as a Catholic because I did everything contained in the definitions above to Mary's image and the Catholics still do it today.infact as I am typing now,millions of Catholics are bowing down to graven images of Maria all around the world.Every Catholic Church compound has a sacred isolated region where gigantic Mary's image of any material stands and towers above every worshipper who "must" go in there,bow down his or her head either kneeling or standing and tell the image his problems,wishes or be thankful for a received favour.In addition to this,even non catholics all over the world make billions of dollars selling graven images of Maria to gullible Catholics who have been trained only to trust and obey.Every catholic adorn his compound and rooms with lots of graven images of Mary.I want any Catholic to dispute this,then ask any interested person to go to a catholic church compound and observe this.Now what greek words do you have for bowing and kneeling to graven images of Maria?.How does this relate to the early church which you falsely claim to have established?.What about the apparitions of Mary?,does it have any corrolation with the early church?.A catholic clergy once advised a woman diagnosed with Cancer not to receive treatment because Mary has shown her a concotion to treat her,this woman died drinking the concotion.I once had brake failure while driving,as I was contemplating where to steer my car,I and my mom rather than calling Jesus' name for safety were seriously calling on mother mother,a resultant effect of indoctrination and cajole.Thank God we have finally realised the truth as is written in the book of Mathew 4:12.

Catholics do these – Latria ( Worship/ Adoration due to the Trinity alone; Dulia ( honour due to Mary and the other saints) – Can get into specifics later. There is what is called marian Devotion, and other saints devotion;which is just a way of people praying together with their chosen saint. This is not complusory.

The mass exodus of congregants out of Catholic border mostly around Mary and her goddess role.So many names including the Charismatic renewal has cropped up and grown out of this faith all in an effort to redress abnormalities made right by human inteligence.As glaring as this dogmatism looks,Catholic priests are so tenacious holding firm to it because of the pecuniary interest involved.I know of a young boy in my town who was forced by his parents to become a catholic priest so he could help enrich the family.

As mentioned before you will find many non catholics coming home to the fullness of the truth in the CC after foinding out that they require authority for what they teaching, professing. What makes you believe in the bible, why not any of the other holy books?

That strategy worked and today the parents are truly rich because they were able to maximise the funds they received from the boy by setting themselves up with a lucrative business.But is God mocked?.The seminary is nothing to write home about as well over 60% of students become gay men before their final year.

Will be interested to know where you got your figures from. Having said that the CC is full of sinners, so it is possible some might come out to be gay just as in any other denomination.

The so called Sisters sleep around with men in secret and in some cases with fathers themselves.if you can promise and swear to a sister that you won't leak the secret,she becomes yours.Masturbation is encouraged and so many other vices.All these atrocities is the singular reason why purgatory is promoted because they falsely teach it will wash away all sins.It is also the major reason why bible is distorted and always quoted out of context without any meaningful points made in tandem to subject matters.The easiest escape route of a catholic when faced with reality is to ask if the bible contain everything that happened in bible time.it becomes so astonishing hearing some who calls himself a follower of christ ask such question.While it looks so smart to them,they foolishly forget that it is not for any body to add nor subtract,or at least they should present to us one that contains everything and revolve around their belief.Instead all we hear them quote is text books and literatures just anybody could come up with in a few seconds and make it God's ordinances.when asked why he is quoting from textbook and literatures,he would tell you christians bible is not complete or have been tamered with.

Ok you’re really getting into sentiments here. Yes, there are sinners in the church and may be true that some religious commit sins, this is not exclusive to the CC. We can discuss the teaching of purgatory later in a different thread.

Bottom line is;you bow and kneel before images of Maria and believe in God by faith.You build special structures/houses for Mary's image where you actually go to worship.You give frivolous reasons for honouring Mary in your own language,what reasons do you have for asking carcasses you call saints to pray for you also?.Where is the position of Jesus in your faith?. What meanings does the teachings of Christ have in your faith?.Why do you refuse to obey him but rather evolve your own doctrine?.Or is jesus' activities as is recorded in the bible also corrupted?.What practices in Catholic today are in alignment with the early church?. Please seek the truth according to jesus and it shall set all of you free.

I’ll truly urge you to look into what the CC teaches (catechism available online for free) and go back to Mass to see what happens. There have been many like you who went away but end up coming back. God bless

Ichiato:
You're the bigger fool to think that somethings are impossible. So Joseph marry Mary just to dey bleep her.

when Joseph no be una priests, even those priests cannot hold their urges and corner altar boys. Joseph my guy did what a husband was meant for : scored more goals after Christ. u rever some pagan goddess the romans had to set up for the Catholics just to emasculate their growth then and still u people can't reason in the 21st century

Proffdada:
when Joseph no be una priests, even those priests cannot hold their urges and corner altar boys. Joseph my guy did what a husband was meant for : scored more goals after Christ. u rever some pagan goddess the romans had to set up for the Catholics just to emasculate their growth then and still u people can't reason in the 21st century

I give up. Keep up the stupidity

Ichiato:
I give up. Keep up the stupidity

yeah it's stupidity only to the fool who rather worship images and prays to Mary instead of the Savior and tries to justify their worship of idols by calling it HONOR then still thinks Mary is virgin and Joseph died a celibate

BlessedDiva:
@Chysam thank u so much ♍y brother/sister for this insight, God bless you, OLAADEGBU, enigmaotr n every other person that tried to show us d reality, I pray for more wisdom from God to you all n for us to make heaven on d last day in Jesus name~Amen!

Amen Sister. And you too.

Ichiato:
Again no scriptural passage condemns Mary as a mediator and therefore cannot be wrong.

It is wrong to add or take away from the precepts of the Scripture!
Although the warning in Revelation 22:18-19 is specific to the Book of Revelation, the principle applies to anyone who seeks to intentionally distort God's Word. Moses gave a similar warning in Deuteronomy 4:1-2, where he cautioned the Israelites that they must listen to and obey the commandments of the Lord, neither adding to nor taking away from His revealed Word. Proverbs 30:5-6 contains a similar admonition to anyone who would add to God’s words: he will be rebuked and proven to be a liar

I wonder why you still brought up this matter having stated in earlier post that pope john Paul II had apologized for the falling of those church leader who committed such acts. Catholics were also killed for their own believes of the bibles meaning. Why single out the passage of revelation as referring to catholics who killed when catholics themselves were killed by reformers. Even more were killed by emperor Nero, have you ever read about emperor Nero? He also killed more Christians than both the catholics and reformers can ever claim to have killed combined. Rome was none to be anti-christain up until the time of emperor constantine. So why choose to interpreted the book of revelation as referring to catholic bishops. Your desperation to crucify the catholic church as clouded your judgment.
Again your interpretation of john 10:35 is very erroneous, when Christ made those statements there was nothing like the books of the new testaments. Do you mean that it is also wrong to have added the NT to the scriptures Christ was referring to? The use of the word " broken" was misinterpreted by you to mean "add or subtract" when Christ only meant that the scriptures can never be wrong or be unfulfilled in out lives. I suggest you read from 32-37 to see my point.

Roman Empire is known to persecute Bible believing Christians upto to time of Constantine you say? And after that? Roman Catholic took over. Roman Empire= Papal Rome! Everyone knows the Papal Church germinated from the grave of Roman Empire. The transfer of the imperial seat from Rome to Constantinople in 330 left a vacuum of power in Rome which was filled by the Papacy!
In 538 the emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire, Justinian, bestowed the title of Universal Bishop upon Pope Vigilius.
In 538 it could be stated with veracity that the Papacy had accepted the scepter of the Roman Empire covered by a thin veneer of Christianity. The sum total of this transformation was the Dark Ages.

enigmaotr:
It is wrong to add or take away from the precepts of the Scripture!
Although the warning in Revelation 22:18-19 is specific to the Book of Revelation, the principle applies to anyone who seeks to intentionally distort God's Word. Moses gave a similar warning in Deuteronomy 4:1-2, where he cautioned the Israelites that they must listen to and obey the commandments of the Lord, neither adding to nor taking away from His revealed Word. Proverbs 30:5-6 contains a similar admonition to anyone who would add to God’s words: he will be rebuked and proven to be a liar

Please, try to stay within the the topic of the argument. I was expecting you to show me how the bible condemns Mary as an intercessor not to state the above. Anyway as per the above, please do not misunderstand my argument. I am not in anyway approving any addition to Gods word. My argument here is that the bible does not contain all of Gods words. God can pass messages to his people through revelation to selected persons and just because it is not in the bible does not make it wrong. Again if going by the passage you quoted above, that nothing is to be added to the scriptures, or whatever is not in the scriptures is wrong then the whole of the new testament would be fake as the books of the new testament were non existent when these scriptures carried such message. God latter had some revelations made known to the apostle and they were added to the scriptures by the early fathers which is what you now know as the new testament. Do you get my point? That the bible was silent on something does not make it wrong.

enigmaotr:
Roman Empire is known to persecute Bible believing Christians upto to time of Constantine you say? And after that? Roman Catholic took over. Roman Empire= Papal Rome! Everyone knows the Papal Church germinated from the grave of Roman Empire. The transfer of the imperial seat from Rome to Constantinople in 330 left a vacuum of power in Rome which was filled by the Papacy!
In 538 the emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire, Justinian, bestowed the title of Universal Bishop upon Pope Vigilius.
In 538 it could be stated with veracity that the Papacy had accepted the scepter of the Roman Empire covered by a thin veneer of Christianity. The sum total of this transformation was the Dark Ages.

Again you're here cruicifing the Catholic church for sins which she has apologized and asked for forgiveness while keeping silent on her on marthyrs who were killed by supposed Christian reformers. Where is the fairness in that? Do not suggest that after the roman empire the catholics took over. Emperor Constantine ruled in the 4th century while the Christian reformers stated in the 16th century. So which Christians did the roman Catholics kill between the 4th and the 16th century after taking over from the roman empire. Even during the 16th century reformation, catholics were also killed by the reformers for their believes. Why you choose to liken the Catholic alone to roman empire is beyond me.

Mhizdimplez:
God Bless You!!!....

Amen and you too.

evablisse:
Which bible is that? All these protestants writing bible to suit their beliefs

Are you saying Luke 2:7 is not in your Bible?

Ubenedictus:
i asked you a simple question.


You said mary was saved before the birth of Christ, so why then did she go for purification?

Stop beating about the bush

How did Mary get saved before the birth of her Saviour?

Ichiato:
My dear the fact that mary needed a saviour does not mean she born in sin. She was also saved because if not for God she would have been born a sinner. God is still the power behind her not been sinless hence her saviour. Take this analogy as an example, all men were born into the pit of sin and needed christ their saviour to pull them out but mary on the other could have fallen into this pit of sin but God knowing that Mary would bear his son and could not possibly be in sin while concieving his son prevented her from falling into this pit(This is where the saving comes in). Another example, If am in a battle and an enemy shot me, a doctor comes in and treats me to good health. We can say he saved me right? In another instance, I could be in a battle and an enemy shot me and just before the bullet hit me the doctor comes in and pushes me out of the path of the bullet. In both instances , I was saved by the doctor. Except in one instance the bullet did not hit me. Do you get it now? There is nothing God cannot do. I think it would be wired for mary while in sin still concieve her Lord. Like my other brothers have earlier stated, a dirty tank cannot possibly hold clean water, the water will also become dirty. Get it now?

Where in the Bible is it stated that Mary was born a saint? and if you insist that Mary was born without sin what about Mary's mother and her grand mother?

webizone:
You know Olaadegbu, she is not a goddess, she did not create the world even... There is one and only GOD, but coming to save us GOD chose to be born by somebody even calling her Mother and respecting her wishes. We believe she can also request on our behalf making her a powerful ally and mentor and if so, why not?

What other request did she make in the Bible?

btoks:
Are you being serious bro? - This is heresy - You're implying that Jesus encouraged sinful behaviour by turning Water into wine!! In any case alcohol drinking is a topic for another day ( I can infer that you're one of those against alcohol). The wedding of Cana is recorded within John's Gospel and you failed to recognise the whole context - Please read John's concluding words in John 2:11 - What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him. I mentioned before that there are deeper meanings to the miracles Jesus performed but you choose to state that Mary encouraged sin!!
If you're a pastor, I hope you're not teaching your congregation this big error.

Yes, Jesus revealed His glory by performing a miracle of creation by turning water into non alcoholic wine but you cannot deny the fact that many folks have ended up drinking themselves to a state of stupor erroneously believing that Jesus sanctioned the drinking of alcohol drink and thereby losing their souls.

btoks:
I most certainly have received it and continue to cooperate with this grace by working out my salvation with fear and trembling as per Philipians 2:12>>>

It still remains that Mary was immaculately conceived in order to carry our Lord Jesus. I believe in church's teaching that defined this as it was guided by the Holy spirit just as the Holy spirit guided the authors of the books of the bible.

It is either your tradition is true and the bible is wrong or vice versa, there are no two ways about it.

enigmaotr:
"The penetration of the religion of Babylon became so general and well known that Rome was called the New Babylon."(Faith of our fathers 1917 ed. Cardinal Gibbons, p. 106)

Babylon is different from the "New Babylon" and there is no record of Peter ever going to Rome.

profdot:
one of best discussion I have ever enjoyed on NL. I am just reading and digesting.
@OP , nice work.

Remain blessed.

BAWSElady:
Matt 7:3

And what is your point?

Ichiato:
Please the bible also used the litral words for brother to describe other relations when it could have used their actual words to describe their relation, such example are in Genesis 13:8 and 14:12, we read of one example of brother being used to describe an extended relationship: Abraham and Lot. Though they were actually uncle and nephew, they called one another "brother." Moreover, in the New Testament, Jesus told us to call one another "brothers" in Matthew 23:8. The passage obviously does not mean to suggest that all Christians have the same physical mother. Also John 19:25 mentions, Mary the mother of Jesus as having a sister also named Mary the wife of clopas, we know that this cannot mean boilogical sisters as two sisters cannot be given the same name. So OLAADEGBU, the bible is not just for litral translations. Logically again, If the bible really wanted to describe the brothers of Jesus as Mary's children then it should have just said so. Why use the brothers of jesus to describe Mary's children, It should have just described them as Mary's children that they are. Only christ is described as the child of mary.
Read more [url]http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-case-for-mary%E2%80%99s-perpetual-virginity[/url]

The post addressed your concerns and in case you missed it see the excerpt below:

Some Roman Catholics claim that these “brothers” were actually Jesus’ cousins. However, in each instance, the specific Greek word for “brother” is used. While the word can refer to other relatives, its normal and literal meaning is a physical brother. There was a Greek word for “cousin,” and it was not used. Further, if they were Jesus’ cousins, why would they so often be described as being with Mary, Jesus’ mother? There is nothing in the context of His mother and brothers coming to see Him that even hints that they were anyone other than His literal, blood-related, half-brothers.

chysam:
Brethren,I have been following all your comments since inception and just can't hold back laughter.The greatest of blessings would be on the guy that shared this post.It will indeed be an eye opener to those who are still in darkness and operating under the influence of inducement,ignorance and indoctrination.
I was a hardcore Catholic as a youth and would have killed for Mary if that opportunity came my way.It is very difficult to explain the religion of the catholics because in Christian matters they always try to argue out their points like juries on judicial contract.They have so much applied mere human intelligence in defending their faith so much that bibles used by any other denomination is unreal.However when they quote from their own version we read similar informations and the corrolations in alignment. They argue spiritual matters based purely on researches and findings by mere mortals whose primary aim always is to induce readers into glorifying their works.They attach so much importance to Languages spoken in Greece and Italy and feel that understanding them is a major step to God's kingdom.For the little minds,let me educate you now that no language is greater than another.Every language is equal to another and has the same value.God made it so.So if you stand before a crowd taking pride in speaking Latin as an old man,then you are making a very big fool of yourself because in countries where those languages originated,toddlers who still wet their beds and infact defecate uncontolably speak them better.


The bone of contention here is who Mary was?.
We all know who she was as is indicative of the Catholic bible as well.But because Catholics feel the writers of Mary's history did not do so in full,they felt there was need to expanciate and elaborate further.This elaboration however became a human tradition outside the bible and their own bible.A wise question here is why were the early christians who were Catholics as they say attach insignificant importance to Mary that they never realised until now that she was their intercessor on spiritual matters?.A most foolish way to defend oneself is to argue whether or not every thing that happened in bible times is included in the bible.Only relevant matters that would be of benefit to believers were recorded and any that was recorded was explicitly narrated and concluded up to a meaningful and reasonable understandng.In Mary's case,Isaiah would not have been daft not to add that after Mary's birth,she would go on to become the transporter of prayers made to her son and God.Even if he was,God's angel would have delivered the message in full.Are we also aware that Mary had parents?.Supposing her parents did not give birth to her?.So her father and mother too are equally blessed for giving birth to a maiden who gave birth to the Christ,they too deserve to be honored.The book of Psalm confirms that Jesus' mother had other children and the Catholic strongly believe in the Psalm of David.So why all this rigmaroling?.Let anyone who can quote this psalmic verse out of context do if he can.69:8-9

The issue related to worshipping Mary pulled me out of Catholic.In addition to keeping some informations unexplainably sacred and making them an exclusive concern of the so called exalted clergies who constantly made us believe the decisions from the Vatican are unquestionable.Jesus kept answering questions from both the standards and the poors until his death and even after.The catholics worship Mary indeed, and the pressure is so much on them to reverse such dogmatic practice but a change from this tradition will demand further amendments in other areas and this will question the innerancy of their doctrines.So what is in play here is nothing but pride and prejudice and an attempt to protect a man made doctrine that now hold millions of people under siege ignorantly.

Yes the bible said honour your parents so your days on earth would be lenghtened,the NT also confirms this.But it becomes practically wrong to honour dead parents or bow down to their lifeless images.How do you honour your parents?,by simply obeying their commands and heedng their advices,and when you are of age you take care of their needs.If honouring exceeds this,then it becomes worship.Therefore in the way and manner the Catholics honour their Mary,it is much more than a worship. Let's look at these few definitions of worship and compare them to how the Catholics honour their Mary to see if there is any difference between their honoring and worshipping.We need bear in mind that we are talking about "Religious Devotional Honour" here,and not physical honours suggested in the 10 commandments.

1.To honor and love as a deity

2.Reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

3.The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.

4.the act of showing respect and love for a god especially by praying with other people who believe in the same god.

5.The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

Conclusively,I worshipped Mary as a Catholic because I did everything contained in the definitions above to Mary's image and the Catholics still do it today.infact as I am typing now,millions of Catholics are bowing down to graven images of Maria all around the world.Every Catholic Church compound has a sacred isolated region where gigantic Mary's image of any material stands and towers above every worshipper who "must" go in there,bow down his or her head either kneeling or standing and tell the image his problems,wishes or be thankful for a received favour.In addition to this,even non catholics all over the world make billions of dollars selling graven images of Maria to gullible Catholics who have been trained only to trust and obey.Every catholic adorn his compound and rooms with lots of graven images of Mary.I want any Catholic to dispute this,then ask any interested person to go to a catholic church compound and observe this.Now what greek words do you have for bowing and kneeling to graven images of Maria?.How does this relate to the early church which you falsely claim to have established?.What about the apparitions of Mary?,does it have any corrolation with the early church?.A catholic clergy once advised a woman diagnosed with Cancer not to receive treatment because Mary has shown her a concotion to treat her,this woman died drinking the concotion.I once had brake failure while driving,as I was contemplating where to steer my car,I and my mom rather than calling Jesus' name for safety were seriously calling on mother mother,a resultant effect of indoctrination and cajole.Thank God we have finally realised the truth as is written in the book of Mathew 4:12.

The mass exodus of congregants out of Catholic border mostly around Mary and her goddess role.So many names including the Charismatic renewal has cropped up and grown out of this faith all in an effort to redress abnormalities made right by human inteligence.As glaring as this dogmatism looks,Catholic priests are so tenacious holding firm to it because of the pecuniary interest involved.I know of a young boy in my town who was forced by his parents to become a catholic priest so he could help enrich the family.That strategy worked and today the parents are truly rich because they were able to maximise the funds they received from the boy by setting themselves up with a lucrative business.But is God mocked?.The seminary is nothing to write home about as well over 60% of students become gay men before their final year.The so called Sisters sleep around with men in secret and in some cases with fathers themselves.if you can promise and swear to a sister that you won't leak the secret,she becomes yours.Masturbation is encouraged and so many other vices.All these atrocities is the singular reason why purgatory is promoted because they falsely teach it will wash away all sins.It is also the major reason why bible is distorted and always quoted out of context without any meaningful points made in tandem to subject matters.The easiest escape route of a catholic when faced with reality is to ask if the bible contain everything that happened in bible time.it becomes so astonishing hearing some who calls himself a follower of christ ask such question.While it looks so smart to them,they foolishly forget that it is not for any body to add nor subtract,or at least they should present to us one that contains everything and revolve around their belief.Instead all we hear them quote is text books and literatures just anybody could come up with in a few seconds and make it God's ordinances.when asked why he is quoting from textbook and literatures,he would tell you christians bible is not complete or have been tamered with.

Bottom line is;you bow and kneel before images of Maria and believe in God by faith.You build special structures/houses for Mary's image where you actually go to worship.You give frivolous reasons for honouring Mary in your own language,what reasons do you have for asking carcasses you call saints to pray for you also?.Where is the position of Jesus in your faith?. What meanings does the teachings of Christ have in your faith?.Why do you refuse to obey him but rather evolve your own doctrine?.Or is jesus' activities as is recorded in the bible also corrupted?.What practices in Catholic today are in alignment with the early church?. Please seek the truth according to jesus and it shall set all of you free.

I do not think many of them has read what's in Psalm 69:8-9.

BlessedDiva:
@Chysam thank u so much ♍y brother/sister for this insight, God bless you, OLAADEGBU, enigmaotr n every other person that tried to show us d reality, I pray for more wisdom from God to you all n for us to make heaven on d last day in Jesus name~Amen!

Amen. God bless you too.

chysam:
Jesus had at least six siblings. These included his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas as well as at least two sisters. (Matthew 13:54- Mark 6:3) Those siblings were natural children of Jesus’ mother, Mary, and her husband, Joseph. (Matthew 1:) The Bible calls Jesus “the firstborn” of Mary, which implies that she had other children..

In order to support the idea that Mary remained a virgin all her life, some have applied different meanings to the term “brothers.” For example, some feel that Jesus’ brothers were actually sons of Joseph by an earlier marriage. However, the Bible shows that Jesus inherited the legal right to the kingship promised to David. (2 Samuel 7: Luke 1:) If Joseph had been father to sons older than Jesus, the eldest of these would have been Joseph’s legal heir.12, 13;32

Could the expression refer to Jesus’ disciples, or spiritual brothers? This idea conflicts with the Scriptures, since the Bible says that at one point “his brothers were, in fact, not exercising faith in him.” (John 7:5) The Bible distinguishes Jesus’ brothers from his disciples.John 2:.12

According to another theory, Jesus’ brothers were actually his cousins. Yet, the Greek Scriptures use distinct words for “brother,” “relative,” and “cousin.” (Luke 21:16; Colossians 4:)

Mary's perpetual virginity is a late 4th century invention by Costantine.This singular invention also gave birth to the theory that Maria is the mother of God.

The appropriate questions would have been "Is this not Jesus the carpenters son?,Are these not "our" brothers and sisters with him?.

And by the way which church believe that the apostles are in heaven?.The CC?.Now tell me the name of your bible and I would tell you where to read about Jesus telling them he has a big mansion in fathers house and that upon his return,he would take them there.

Another good response. God bless you.