Weah96:


School teachers speak for themselves. God doesn't ever speak for himself.

Irrelevant. The point made is that the school teachers/lawmakers/judge is not always necessarily subject.

Dapo777:


That's a very weak analogy,.this is a Better one: the legislative, judiciary and executive make laws,But does that exempt them from abiding by the laws They make?
Strong analogy ^^

Your lawmakers are your equals in a sense and appointed by you. Your teachers were not.

@Image123....

It's not worth it. After the first and second admonition, let a heretic be..... Worse still, God's last warning has gone forth, it's time to run to the Mountains (as Lot was warned)..... the door is about to close on the Virgins.... one must get wise. We can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

These guys want to "win" arguments, thinking they are much more intellectual? Let them. The time spent on explaining things may be better spent on acquiring more oil into one's lap. I want to get in before the door is closed.

God Bless.

BraveGuy:
@Image123....

the door is about to close on the Virgins.... one must get wise.

Wassup with you guys and virgins? P)ussy is good, I know, but this level of infatuation has got to be unhealthy.

I prefer w)hores myself, in case you're curious, someone who's been around the block.

https://www.nairaland.com/1963306/read-claim-atheism#27385634

Atheists CAN'T argue against this guy!
There is MEDICAL proof that defies scientists!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2797764/what-heaven-s-really-like-leading-brain-surgeon-says-s-read-testimony-scoff-just-shake-beliefs.html

"What is unique in my case is that I am, as far as scientific records show, the only person to have travelled to this heavenly dimension with the cortex in complete shut-down, while under minute observation throughout.

There are medical records for every minute of my coma, and none of them show any indication of brain activity. In other words, as far as neuroscience can say, my journey was not something happening inside my head."

BraveGuy:
https://www.nairaland.com/1963306/read-claim-atheism#27385634

Atheists CAN'T argue against this guy!
There is MEDICAL proof that defies scientists!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2797764/what-heaven-s-really-like-leading-brain-surgeon-says-s-read-testimony-scoff-just-shake-beliefs.html

"What is unique in my case is that I am, as far as scientific records show, the only person to have travelled to this heavenly dimension with the cortex in complete shut-down, while under minute observation throughout.

There are medical records for every minute of my coma, and none of them show any indication of brain activity. In other words, as far as neuroscience can say, my journey was not something happening inside my head."

Why is it that, everyone's account of heaven and hell is always different? Is it that the appearance of heaven and hell is always changing or What?
I don't get it.

If heaven and hell are places,everyone who went there should have coherent description naaa. Abi What do you think?

BraveGuy:
https://www.nairaland.com/1963306/read-claim-atheism#27385634

Atheists CAN'T argue against this guy!
There is MEDICAL proof that defies scientists!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2797764/what-heaven-s-really-like-leading-brain-surgeon-says-s-read-testimony-scoff-just-shake-beliefs.html

"What is unique in my case is that I am, as far as scientific records show, the only person to have travelled to this heavenly dimension with the cortex in complete shut-down, while under minute observation throughout.

There are medical records for every minute of my coma, and none of them show any indication of brain activity. In other words, as far as neuroscience can say, my journey was not something happening inside my head."

The man is a fraud and a liar. . .When confronted by other experts he quickly changed his story. .

The claim that his neocortex was totally kaput during his coma is the principal — in fact only — scientific hook on which he hangs “Proof of Heaven”: “During my coma my brain wasn’t working improperly — it wasn’t working at all.” If his brain was not functioning, the consciousness that rode the “butterfly through paradise” existed outside the body, and the door to immortality is wide open. So far, so logical. Only Dr. Alexander has already changed position on this issue. We probably have Sam Harris to thank for that. Harris, author of “The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation,” responded to Dr. Alexander’s Newsweek piece by seeking the opinion of neuroscientist Mark Cohen, whose reply was unequivocal. According to Cohen, the neocortical inactivity described by Dr. Alexander is “brain death, a 100 percent lethal condition.” By the time I met Dr. Alexander and mentioned his inactive neocortex, his line had changed. He told me, “Well, the thing is I would not say completely inactive.”

[i]Only, he did. It is in his book. But with me, Dr. Alexander essentially conceded Harris’s point, adding, “There’s no way that [the neocortex] gave me that incredibly rich odyssey that I remember.”[/i]

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/26/dr_eben_alexanders_so_called_after_life/

Dapo777:


Why is it that, everyone's account of heaven and hell is always different? Is it that the appearance of heaven and hell is always changing or What?
I don't get it.

If heaven and hell are places,everyone who went there should have coherent description naaa. Abi What do you think?

All kinds of excuses have been given about adults and their NDE experiences, what about a 3yr 10months old boy?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/magazine/my-son-went-to-heaven-and-all-i-got-was-a-no-1-best-seller.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

BraveGuy:
https://www.nairaland.com/1963306/read-claim-atheism#27385634

Atheists CAN'T argue against this guy!
There is MEDICAL proof that defies scientists!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2797764/what-heaven-s-really-like-leading-brain-surgeon-says-s-read-testimony-scoff-just-shake-beliefs.html

"What is unique in my case is that I am, as far as scientific records show, the only person to have travelled to this heavenly dimension with the cortex in complete shut-down, while under minute observation throughout.

There are medical records for every minute of my coma, and none of them show any indication of brain activity. In other words, as far as neuroscience can say, my journey was not something happening inside my head."

DMT is endogenous, remember? Maybe this will help jolt your memory.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23881860

BraveGuy:


All kinds of excuses have been given about adults and their NDE experiences, what about a 3yr 10months old boy?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/magazine/my-son-went-to-heaven-and-all-i-got-was-a-no-1-best-seller.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Same applies to the 3 year old,what makes you think,the younger the person that had such encounter the more genuine It's likely to be? The boys account is different from every other persons account. If another young boy should have an encounter of heaven,his story would be different,the features of heaven he would see would be different from this. Why??

I beg for an answer...... why??

Dapo777:


Same applies to the 3 year old,what makes you think,the younger the person that had such encounter the more genuine It's likely to be? The boys account is different from every other persons account. If another young boy should have an encounter of heaven,his story would be different,the features of heaven he would see would be different from this. Why??

I beg for an answer...... why??

You have failed to provide an explanation as to the facts the boy brought back with him in his glimpse of heaven:
#1. The sister he never met nor was aware ever existed.
#2. His grandfather whom he never met but was able to identify in a photo?
#3. His view of his father screaming in the chapel?
#4. His description of what Jesus Christ truly looks like?

Were these as a result of hallucinations?
If not, what was it that he experienced?

BraveGuy:


You have failed to provide an explanation as to the facts the boy brought back with him in his glimpse of heaven:
#1. The sister he never met nor was aware ever existed.
#2. His grandfather whom he never met but was able to identify in a photo?
#3. His view of his father screaming in the chapel?
#4. His description of what Jesus Christ truly looks like?

Were these as a result of hallucinations?
If not, what was it that he experienced?

The Jesus that he saw,did he have long hair? I need an answer to this,then I would tell you my take on this.

Have seen the painting that the boy said matched with the Jesus he saw. Jesus had short brown hair and beard in the painting......no one has seen Jesus that is still alive today. So every descriptions given to him would be speculations. Abi have u seen Jesus before?

BraveGuy:


You have failed to provide an explanation as to the facts the boy brought back with him in his glimpse of heaven:
#1. The sister he never met nor was aware ever existed.
#2. His grandfather whom he never met but was able to identify in a photo?
#3. His view of his father screaming in the chapel?
#4. His description of what Jesus Christ truly looks like?

Were these as a result of hallucinations?
If not, what was it that he experienced?

This was What the boy's father said: “I’ve always had high regard for Scripture but the Bible is confusing about heaven at best. There’s verses here and there and they’re all kind of mixed up. They don’t draw out a very good picture,” he said. “You know you have to trust God. You know hell is way worse than heaven. But what is heaven like? Streets are gold, gates are made of pearl. But it is very minimal on details.”

The father agrees that the Bible doesn't give concrete description of heaven and that father has to believe and have faith that his son's experience is genuine,despite other people's different descriptions of the heaven They saw.

That's why I am asking that question,Since the Bible doesn't give enough descriptions of heaven,how do we know whose account is accurate? Why are They not all having the same descriptions of the same heaven ?

That question is very important.

The issue of the 4 year old's experience is on truth.
How does a 4 year old possess important knowledge that was not revealed to him by anybody, after an oob?

His oob has biblical flavours to it.
How dyu account for this?

asalimpo:
The issue of the 4 year old's experience is on truth.
How does a 4 year old possess important knowledge that was not revealed to him by anybody, after an oob?

His oob has biblical flavours to it.
How dyu account for this?

Is there a vivid description of Jesus and heaven in the Bible?

Dapo777:


Why is it that, everyone's account of heaven and hell is always different? Is it that the appearance of heaven and hell is always changing or What?
I don't get it.

If heaven and hell are places,everyone who went there should have coherent description naaa. Abi What do you think?

how many peoples account do you know of? What were the differences in them?

asalimpo:

how many peoples account do you know of? What were the differences in them?

I don't have time to start typing, make your own findings, you have Google just search "database of heaven encounters" or something similar, u would see numerous descriptions of heaven very different to each other. Make your research So you won't say am lying.

Dapo777:


This was What the boy's father said: “I’ve always had high regard for Scripture but the Bible is confusing about heaven at best. There’s verses here and there and they’re all kind of mixed up. They don’t draw out a very good picture,” he said. “You know you have to trust God. You know hell is way worse than heaven. But what is heaven like? Streets are gold, gates are made of pearl. But it is very minimal on details.”

The father agrees that the Bible doesn't give concrete description of heaven and that father has to believe and have faith that his son's experience is genuine,despite other people's different descriptions of the heaven They saw.

That's why I am asking that question,Since the Bible doesn't give enough descriptions of heaven,how do we know whose account is accurate? Why are They not all having the same descriptions of the same heaven ?

That question is very important.

I wished you never asked such a silly question, really.

Ordinarily, you must have thought that heaven is a small room, isn't it?

Even, if you put identical twins in a room, would they describe it with the same adjectives in the same way?

Let me help you ask your question properly: How would you describe life on Earth? Which part would you be happy to use to summarize your experience? The Californiana deserts or the Tropical Africa? The Caribbean Island Beaches or the Venetian buildings? The skyscrapers of Manhattan or the China Wall?

BraveGuy:




Were these as a result of hallucinations?

Million dollar question.

Weah96:


Million dollar question.

Well, that is the difference; to you it is a million dollar and expensive question to answer, but to the rest of us, we have already been enlightened to understand the truth, Jesus paved the Way for us.

If I were you, I'd spend my life savings to find out the truth, I'd go and visit some of these people and interview them on a one-to-one basis. Why? Because you say if you don't see you won't believe; it's a matter of life and death. Your life depends on knowing and understanding the TRUTH.

BraveGuy:


I wished you never asked such a silly question, really.

Ordinarily, you must have thought that heaven is a small room, isn't it?

Even, if you put identical twins in a room, would they describe it with the same adjectives in the same way?

Let me help you ask your question properly: How would you describe life on Earth? Which part would you be happy to use to summarize your experience? The Californiana deserts or the Tropical Africa? The Caribbean Island Beaches or the Venetian buildings? The skyscrapers of Manhattan or the China Wall?

Wow So you are ridiculous enough to believe heaven is as large as earth. Well not according to your Bible,it seems you know So little of your Bible only to come here and give meaningless points,next time read your Bible well before jumping into conclusion.
In revelation 21:16
Heaven Where God dwells is 1380miles X 1380miles in dimension

That's a car drive from newyork to Los Angeles. Can you see how small heaven is?

So comparing heaven to earth is a very silly thing to do,and am disappointed with how little you know your Bible.

Now that we have established the size of heaven, heaven must have specific features with very little diversity,If you have been to newyork city you would notice specific features about the place,this is What I expect from those who claim to go to heaven and come back with completely contradictory descriptions.

When one person says he passed through seven gates before he got to the main heaven gangan, another person say there is one gate before you get to heaven,some people say the ground is made of glass,others say the ground is made of gold,in fact some people claim to see HD flatscreen TVs in heaven, some other people say that there are body replacement hall in heaven Where those who lost their body parts on earth can get it replaced. So many descriptions from different people. People of another religion apart from Christianity see another entirely different heaven,like a hall Where a long bearded man with a very long scroll checks for people's name and examine everything the person did on earth those people who haven't done their assignment on earth would be sent back to earth and born as a new born baby into a poor family as purnishment,while those who did their assignment would be sent back into a rich family as a new born baby as their reward.

My point is this, whatever way those people see heaven is how They have been made to believe heaven looks like. That four year old boy definitely has a concept of heaven before his experience.

Heaven is all in your head. Heaven is whatever you want and desire, Yes That's heaven it only exist in your head,and that explains the contradictory descriptions people give about the "same" heaven They went to.

Dapo777:


Wow So you are ridiculous enough to believe heaven is as large as earth. Well not according to your Bible,it seems you know So little of your Bible only to come here and give meaningless points,next time read your Bible well before jumping into conclusion.
In revelation 21:16
Heaven Where God dwells is 1380miles X 1380miles in dimension

That's a car drive from newyork to Los Angeles. Can you see how small heaven is?

So comparing heaven to earth is a very silly thing to do,and am disappointed with how little you know your Bible.

Now that we have established the size of heaven, heaven must have specific features with very little diversity,If you have been to newyork city you would notice specific features about the place,this is What I expect from those who claim to go to heaven and come back with completely contradictory descriptions.

When one person says he passed through seven gates before he got to the main heaven gangan, another person say there is one gate before you get to heaven,some people say the ground is made of glass,others say the ground is made of gold,in fact some people claim to see HD flatscreen TVs in heaven, some other people say that there are body replacement hall in heaven Where those who lost their body parts on earth can get it replaced. So many descriptions from different people. People of another religion apart from Christianity see another entirely different heaven,like a hall Where a long bearded man with a very long scroll checks for people's name and examine everything the person did on earth those people who haven't done their assignment on earth would be sent back to earth and born as a new born baby into a poor family as purnishment,while those who did their assignment would be sent back into a rich family as a new born baby as their reward.

My point is this, whatever way those people see heaven is how They have been made to believe heaven looks like. That four year old boy definitely has a concept of heaven before his experience.

Heaven is all in your head. Heaven is whatever you want and desire, Yes That's heaven it only exist in your head,and that explains the contradictory descriptions people give about the "same" heaven They went to.

You've got your facts wrong, mate.

#1. That is NOT the measurement of heaven, but that of a CITY.
#2. What about the height of the city?

Let me help you a little bit here:
Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

We also see there that THIS city is a CUBE. Twelve thousand furlongs is 1500 miles. This city is 1500 miles square and 1500 miles high. Now, to help your imagination better, the Burj Khalifa (tallest building in the world) is 0.5145 miles tall in the UAE. Place the Burj inside the New Jerusalem and measure again.

(btw 1 furlong = 0.125miles - if you don't agree, Google it) So, 12,000 X 0.125miles.

You are still missing the point, even that New Jerusalem in not heaven. There has never been any measurement of heaven. It's unfortunate that your mind can't take it; heaven is not like a city, it's a realm and it is around us, just like your wifi, it is there, but you can't see it, the wifi exists in a different realm or frequency in comparison to you.

When two people describe something, they are most likely to give two different accounts..... water inside a cup, half full or half empty?

Irrespective of the view that is used to describe the glass cup (in this case - heaven), it is immaterial; the bottom line is that the glass cup (heaven) exists and people have had their view/taste of it and are able to describe it in their own way.

You can't take that away from them and neither can you deny their experiences. You either take it or leave it!

^^people have had their taste of a lot of hallucinations that aren't true.
Heaven is nowhere, its just a place in people's imagination, it doesn't exit.

Dapo777:


Heaven is all in your head. Heaven is whatever you want and desire, Yes That's heaven it only exist in your head,and that explains the contradictory descriptions people give about the "same" heaven They went to.

was a 4year old boy croong for heaven? Are four year olds obsessing over the spiritual so much their subconscious plays tricks on them?

The disparities in heaven stories are to b expected, different human views of their accounts but its not all subjective,theyre threads of similarity that wud run thru all genuine encounters.
Is seeing your dead stillborn sister that hugged you all in your head?

BraveGuy:




You've got your facts wrong, mate.

#1. That is NOT the measurement of heaven, but that of a CITY.
#2. What about the height of the city?

Let me help you a little bit here:
Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

We also see there that THIS city is a CUBE. Twelve thousand furlongs is 1500 miles. This city is 1500 miles square and 1500 miles high. Now, to help your imagination better, the Burj Khalifa (tallest building in the world) is 0.5145 miles tall in the UAE. Place the Burj inside the New Jerusalem and measure again.

(btw 1 furlong = 0.125miles - if you don't agree, Google it) So, 12,000 X 0.125miles.

You are still missing the point, even that New Jerusalem in not heaven. There has never been any measurement of heaven. It's unfortunate that your mind can't take it; heaven is not like a city, it's a realm and it is around us, just like your wifi, it is there, but you can't see it, the wifi exists in a different realm or frequency in comparison to you.

When two people describe something, they are most likely to give two different accounts..... water inside a cup, half full or half empty?

Wonderful!

Please What's the difference or What are the differences between heaven and new Jerusalem. Who are the people that would inhabit new Jerusalem and who are the people that would inhabit heaven? If you think heaven and new Jerusalem are two separate places ,kindly show me the Bible verse to support your claim.

asalimpo:


was a 4year old boy croong for heaven? Are four year olds obsessing over the spiritual so much their subconscious plays tricks on them?

The disparities in heaven stories are to b expected, different human views of their accounts but its not all subjective,theyre threads of similarity that wud run thru all genuine encounters.
Is seeing your dead stillborn sister that hugged you all in your head?

Sit down there.

How do you know Which encounters are genuine and Which are not When there is no vivid description of heaven in the Bible.

Little kids are the most imaginative. It's very possible the kid had a vivid concept of What heaven is like Through color story books and from Sunday schools and the rest. Off point!!!

Dapo777:


Sit down there.

How do you know Which encounters are genuine and Which are not When there is no vivid description of heaven in the Bible.

Little kids are the most imaginative. It's very possible the kid had a vivid concept of What heaven is like Through color story books and from Sunday schools and the rest. Off point!!!

possible. Statistically. Now,this is conjecture/theory to explain away his experience.
Just don't try to push it as a fact-which is wat u atheists always try to do.

*if u believe something strongly enuff,it will become like truth to you no matter how ridiculous it initially seemed . Life from non life e.g *

try explaing away, his unborn sister he met in his sub conscious heaven!

After that, try wavg off,the Jesus he saw which was like none he'd seen in paintgs before.

Dilute, the meetg with his grandpa - whose pix he'd never seen before.

Vivid imaginations?

egift:


First you have refuse taking a stand if or not you are an Atheist and how you came to that deplorable condition.

On your mockery, people who lived through those times where witnesses to these events. Landmarks are there till date to validate these records and for those of us alive today are witnesses to the existence of the supernatural. The sick are healed and medically certified okay. Lives are saved in a manner that defies all physical possibilities.

Scholars all believe that Moses who reportedly lived more than 1000 years after this Genesis account wrote the Pentateuch. How's that "eye witness"? In fact, the oldest available OT manuscripts are the Dead Sea Scrolls from Qumran which date to c. 300 - 200 B. C. E., and even the Moses' authorship is even in doubt since of course he didn't write about his death and after death.

The manuscripts attesting to the Gospel and other letters all date back to more than a century after these fictitious men must have rot in their graves. Most of these writing (along with the so-called pseudogripha and apocrypha) all existed during the reign of the Roman Church when interpolation of already-written letters and fabrication of whole-new letters were tools apologists and councils used in refuting opposition. It is no wonder that most of the manuscripts now available are in the possession of Vatican City.

That is to, the so-called eye-witness account are just tales the Roman Church used to gain both Religious and Political power over a vast part of the World. Ever wondered why they so opposed the translation and personal ownership of Bibles? Of course, that would make interpolation, omission and fabrication impossible.

That you believe or not is you prerogative. But to wrap you mind round the inconsistencies of a vacuum, randomness, simplicity and a live in a void - is an evident of a carefree attitude that have no consideration for facts.

You still haven't pointed out these "facts"

that your God must be acknowledge as "Existent" and the likes of Fairies, Genies, Santa, Flying Spaghetti Monster, e.t.c not?

What makes your God existent and the others not?

Let's see proof please. Thanks.

Dapo777:


Sit down there.

How do you know Which encounters are genuine and Which are not When there is no vivid description of heaven in the Bible.

Little kids are the most imaginative. It's very possible the kid had a vivid concept of What heaven is like Through color story books and from Sunday schools and the rest. Off point!!!

Yours is the silliest of comments!

That boy imagined that his mother had a miscarriage when he was still unborn? No, he had a vivid concept of what his grandfather looked like when he was yet unborn and had no clue what the man looked like!

[size=14pt]Easily the worst comment I have ever come across on Nairaland.[/size]

Dapo777:


Wonderful!

Please What's the difference or What are the differences between heaven and new Jerusalem. Who are the people that would inhabit new Jerusalem and who are the people that would inhabit heaven? If you think heaven and new Jerusalem are two separate places ,kindly show me the Bible verse to support your claim.

If I explain it to you using the Bible, you would claim that you never believed in the Bible, so why bother? Answering your Biblical questions, from my experience with you, is a waste of time. At least, you claimed to have once read the Bible, then go and check the answers again in the Book of Revelation, it's just 22 chapters.

Reiyvinn:


Scholars all believe that Moses who reportedly lived more than 1000 years after this Genesis account wrote the Pentateuch. How's that "eye witness"? In fact, the oldest available OT manuscripts are the Dead Sea Scrolls from Qumran which date to c. 300 - 200 B. C. E., and even the Moses' authorship is even in doubt since of course he didn't write about his death and after death.

The manuscripts attesting to the Gospel and other letters all date back to more than a century after these fictitious men must have rot in their graves. Most of these writing (along with the so-called pseudogripha and apocrypha) all existed during the reign of the Roman Church when interpolation of already-written letters and fabrication of whole-new letters were tools apologists and councils used in refuting opposition. It is no wonder that most of the manuscripts now available are in the possession of Vatican City.

That is to, the so-called eye-witness account are just tales the Roman Church used to gain both Religious and Political power over a vast part of the World. Ever wondered why they so opposed the translation and personal ownership of Bibles? Of course, that would make interpolation, omission and fabrication impossible.



You still haven't pointed out these "facts"

that your God must be acknowledge as "Existent" and the likes of Fairies, Genies, Santa, Flying Spaghetti Monster, e.t.c not?

What makes your God existent and the others not?

Let's see proof please. Thanks.

Of course, it is fictitious in your imaginations. Go and tell all the archeologists and geologists who were once skeptics and from their discoveries had a change of mind that all those Bible stories were in their dreams and hallucinations. See their list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_Christianity_from_nontheism
http://www.godofevolution.com/how-an-agnostic-archaeologist-came-to-join-the-leagues-of-the-christian-crazies/

Notable among the most hallucinates was Sir William Mitchell Ramsay, a British archaeologist. Read about him here: http://www.conservapedia.com/William_Mitchell_Ramsay

He spent 15 years of his professional life dreaming and hallucinating, trying desperately to disprove the Bible, isn't it? All that he discovered were in his mind.

You're a joker with no story line!