"What Is Abraham’s Bosom?" - Christianity Etc (2) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum › Nairaland General › Christianity Etc › "What Is Abraham’s Bosom?" (3547 Views)
| Re: "What Is Abraham’s Bosom?" by OLAADEGBU(op): 7:59pm On Nov 20, 2014 |
dolphinheart:OK. dolphinheart:Adam became a living soul when God gave him the breath of life. (Gen 2:7). dolphinheart:What separated Adam from animals is the breath of life that created him in the image of God. Animals are not created in the image of God. And as I said, Adam did not only become conscious of himself he also was also conscious of the image of God in him which is the eternal spirit that is capable of having fellowship and communion with his Creator. (Gen 1:26-28.) dolphinheart:God did not breath into the nostrils of the animals like He did with Adam, thus, they were not created in the image of God. Adam was created in God's spiritual image (Gen.1:24-26). dolphinheart:Animals too do have the breath of life (neshama in Hebrew) but are not created in the image of God. "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died" (Genesis 7:22). dolphinheart:"Who knows the spirit of man that goes upward, and the spirit of the beast that goes downward to the earth?" (Ecclessiastes 3:21) spirit is the same word as "breath" and in this sense both humans and animals have "spirit." The respiratory organ stops functioning at death and since animals do not have that eternal entity (image of God) they perish in the ground. dolphinheart:The spirit and soul of man can be seen as two sides of a coin (being two parts of the same coin). The soul goes to where the spirit goes and yet they are separate (1 Thess.5:23; Hebrew 4:12). Heaven or hell as in the OP. dolphinheart:They are not the same but are often used interchangeably in the Scriptures. dolphinheart:Before the fall, Adam could relate to and observe the spirit world as easy as he could observe and relate to the natural/physical world. This could no longer happen after the Word of God severed between the spirit and soul of man. Those doing so today are disobeying God's command and are being deceived by demons into controlling their spirit bodies, such as those who practise astral projections and witchcraft. Today we do not have the conscious awareness of our spiritual bodies just as we do our physical bodies. When we become born again God activates the link between our spirit and soul only when He chooses to give understanding of the Scriptures, to make our spirits aware of His presence, to give us discerning of the spirit world etc. dolphinheart:Ok. dolphinheart:When you say all souls, does that include animals? If yes, I believe I have answered that question. dolphinheart:If we are submissive to God we would worship Him in spirit and in truth. We would allow God to use our spirits when He needs to not when we need to. God does not want His people to control their spirit bodies as satan wants us to do contrary so as to be open to overwhelming temptations to sin and we will not want to be dependent on Him thus exposing ourselves to the attack of the enemy. |
| Re: "What Is Abraham’s Bosom?" by dolphinheart(m): 3:22pm On Nov 21, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU:1.my question: Is Adam a soul or was giving a soul.? Ur answer: Adam became a living soul when God gave him the breath of life. (Gen 2:7). My response: I do agree with you , Adam does not have a soul, he was not giving a soul, but rather he is a soul. Adam is a living being(soul) and these came about when his body received the breath of life(spirit). Adam was made from dust ("And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7) Breath of life was giving to Adam WHO IS DUST ( "In the sweat of thy face shall you eat bread, till you return unto the ground, for out of it were you taken: for dust you are, and unto dust shall you return". Genesis 3:19)became alive, had life through the spirit(breath of life ) that god gave him, and thus became a soul(living being). 2. I asked the question : Do you have any scriptural statement that says " the breath of life contains both soul and spirit? Ur answer: What separated Adam from animals is the breath of life that created him in the image of God. Animals are not created in the image of God. And as I said, Adam did not only become conscious of himself he also was also conscious of the image of God in him which is the eternal spirit that is capable of having fellowship and communion with his Creator. (Gen 1:26-28.) My response: Sir, u have not answered my question on if there is any biblical evidence that states that the breath of life contains both the spirit and soul. Furthermore, what seperated Adam from animals is not the breathe of life as both Adam and the animals both have the same spirit(breathe), both are created from dust and thus both are souls . (Eccles 3 verse 19: New International Version Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. English Standard Version For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. New American Standard Bible For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. King James Bible For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.) The breathe of life did not create Adam in the image of god. Adam was created in gods image while he was dust, that he was created in gods image means that Adam had the ability to express gods qualities such as justice, peace, long suffering, mercy, forgiveness, love etc. We are able to commune with god cus god created Adam with that ability and then imparted the spirit into him to be able to use that ability.an example is when man creates a fan (man) and creates a toaster(beast)both cannot funtion without electricity (spirit)both cannot do each others Job despite being made of same materials and both have electricity. So the difference between man and beast is not on the spirit, for the spirit in us is not the reason we are created in gods image, but in the process of creation of our physical body, for our body is created in the image of god and not our spirit(breathe).that is why we are encourage to keep our physical body holy . 3. I asked : What do you mean that the breath of life was giving to animals indirectly. I do not think the bible specifically stated the process of animals becoming souls? (My view is that since animals are also created from dust and are living creatures, then there creation process follows that of the creation process of man. The only difference is that man is created in gods image ) Ur answer: God did not breath into the nostrils of the animals like He did with Adam, thus, they were not created in the image of God. Adam was created in God's spiritual image (Gen.1:24-26). My response: The bible did not mention the process on how animals came to be living souls , that you relate the difference between man and animals to the spirit they received has been debunked in 2 above cus the bible said that both man and animals have the same spirit. So the spirit they received is not the reason y animals are not created in gods image. so ur statement does not have scriptural backing. Adam was not created in gods spiritual image, god is a spirit, man is a physical being. Man was created in gods image(spiritual not included). Man has the same eventuality as animals.(Ecclestiatis 3 vs 20: King James Bible All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.) These brings about further questions for consideration : if man and animals have same spirit, both are from dust, they have same eventuality , does that mean that animals go to abrahams bossom and to hell?. Note the fact that both are souls. 4. I asked : If Adam has consciousness because he had/he is a soul , do animals have consciousness too and y? U answered: Animals too do have the breath of life (neshama in Hebrew) but are not created in the image of God. "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died " (Genesis 7:22). My response: First, my question just needs a yes or no answer before explanation, and you did not state if animals have consciousness or not. Animals too have consciousness, they move they move, they react, they get hungry, they play, they fight. But there consciousness is different from that of man cus they where not physicaly Created in gods image and thus does not have the thinking faculty that man has. You mentioned genesis 7:22, does this not give us an idea that god blew the breathe of life into the nostrils of animals too.? 5. I asked: If animals have souls/ are souls, what happens to them when they die. U answered : "Who knows the spirit of man that goes upward, and the spirit of the beast that goes downward to the earth ?" (Ecclessiastes 3:21) spirit is the same word as "breath" and in this sense both humans and animals have "spirit." The respiratory organ stops functioning at death and since animals do not have that eternal entity (image of God) they perish in the ground. My response: The bible helps us to answer the question. Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”(The Hebrew word here translated “spirit” is a derivative of ru′ach. Some translators render it “breath.” When that ru′ach, or active life-force, leaves the body, the person’s thoughts perish; they do not continue in another realm.) Eccl. 3:19-21: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth?” (Because of the inheritance of sin and death from Adam, humans all die and return to the dust, as animals do. But does each human have a spirit that goes on living as an intelligent personality after it ceases to function in the body? No; Ec 3 verse 19 answers that humans and beasts “all have but one spirit.” Based merely on human observation, no one can authoritatively answer the question raised in Ec 3 verse 21 regarding the spirit. But God’s Word answers that there is nothing that humans have as a result of birth that gives them superiority over beasts when they die. However, because of God’s merciful provision through Christ, the prospect of living forever has been opened up to humans who exercise faith, but not to animals. For many of mankind, that will be made possible by resurrection, when active life-force from God will invigorate them again.) Luke 23:46: “Jesus called with a loud voice and said: ‘Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit ’ .When he had said this, he expired.” (Notice that Jesus expired. When his spirit went out he was not on his way to heaven. Not until the third day from this was Jesus resurrected from the dead. Then, as Acts 1:3, 9 shows, it was 40 more days before he ascended to heaven. So, what is the meaning of what Jesus said at the time of his death? He was saying that he knew that, when he died, his future life prospects rested entirely with God. 6. I asked: So if the spirit (breath )returns to God when Adam died and the body returns to the ground where it came from , where does the soul go, what happens to it after death? U answered: The spirit and soul of man can be seen as two sides of a coin (being two parts of the same coin). The soul goes to where the spirit goes and yet they are separate (1 Thess.5:23; Hebrew 4:12). Heaven or hell as in the OP. My response: the bible does not state that the soul and spirit are two sides of the same coin . The bible explains what the soul is, it also explains what d spirit is ,they are two different things entirely. (1 thess 5: 23 King James Bible And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.) That scripture did not state spirit and soul being of the same coin. (heb 4:12: King James Bible For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.) Soul is a combination of d spirit and flesh, therefore spirit can be divided/removed from the soul. That soul is another side of the spirit is wrong analysis. I asked you: 7. U stated that adam and his descendants lost the means to walk with God or have conversations with God due to Adams sin. And I ask , what's the difference between Adams conversation / walking with God /hearing Gods voice communicating with god and his descendants ability to do same. What is it that Adam did that any of his descendants could/did not do? U answered: Before the fall, Adam could relate to and observe the spirit world as easy as he could observe and relate to the natural/ physical world. This could no longer happen after the Word of God severed between the spirit and soul of man. Those doing so today are disobeying God's command and are being deceived by demons into controlling their spirit bodies, such as those who practise astral projections and witchcraft. Today we do not have the conscious awareness of our spiritual bodies just as we do our physical bodies. When we become born again God activates the link between our spirit and soul only when He chooses to give understanding of the Scriptures, to make our spirits aware of His presence, to give us discerning of the spirit world etc. My response: sir , u explanation shows that all Adam could do before he sinned is what his descendants can also do . Adam can call god and talk to him, his descendants too could do that . Adam can see spirit creatures, his descendants too could do that . The bible did not say that moses had holy spirit in him before he could see the burning bush. Cain was not on gods good books , but he still had conversation with god . Remember the reason I asked this question was based on ur statement that Adams descendants lost the ability to do the things that Adam did due to his sin . Moreover, pls can u state in the scriture where Adam or his descendants had a spiritual body? 8. I asked u: You stated what happens to the spirit when man dies. You did not state what happens to the body and soul here (though u have stated what happens to the body earlier and I agree with u) what happens to all soul when they die.? U answered : When you say all souls, does that include animals? If yes, I believe I have answered that question. My response : No sir, u have not answered the questions in number 8 . I asked: 9. You stated that the soul (consciousness control the spirit and body. Does/can the body or spirit control our soul(consciousness)? Pls explain further on these nine questions using the scriptures. U answered: If we are submissive to God we would worship Him in spirit and in truth. We would allow God to use our spirits when He needs to not when we need to. God does not want His people to control their spirit bodies as satan wants us to do contrary so as to be open to overwhelming temptations to sin and we will not want to be dependent on Him thus exposing ourselves to the attack of the enemy. My response: this is supposed to be a yes or no answer the followed by explanation. From ur answer I deduce that the flesh can control the soul. |
| Re: "What Is Abraham’s Bosom?" by dolphinheart(m): 3:38pm On Nov 21, 2014 |
More on my opoinion on the soul.(sources and edited) In the Bible, “soul” is translated from the Hebrew ne′phesh and the Greek psy·khe′. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To you however, “soul” means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. Others understand it to be the principle of life. But these latter views don't correspond with the bible teachings. What does the Bible say that helps us to understand what the soul is? Gen. 2:7: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is ne ′phesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”) 1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (So the Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is.) (The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”) 1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (The Greek word here translated “souls” is psy·khai′, the plural form of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”) Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from ne ′phesh] shall I ask back.” (Here the soul is said to have blood.) Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” (The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.) Where does the Bible say that animals are souls? Gen. 1:20, 21, 24, 25: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls* . . . ’ And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. . . . And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds . . . ’ And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind.” (*In Hebrew the word here is ne′phesh. Ro reads “soul.” Some translations use the rendering “creature[s].”) Lev. 24:17, 18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.” (Notice that the same Hebrew word for soul is applied to both mankind and animals.) Rev. 16:3: “It became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul* died, yes, the things in the sea.” (Thus the Christian Greek Scriptures also show animals to be souls.) (*In Greek the word here is psy·khe′. KJ, AS, and Dy render it “soul.” Some translators use the term “creature” or “thing.”) What do some books say “There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [ne ′phesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy·khe′] is the N[ew] T [estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450. “The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152. “The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564. Can the human soul die? Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*Hebrew reads “the ne′phesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.”) Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.” (*Greek has the accusative case of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”) Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psy·khe′] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.” Is the soul the same as the spirit? Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ru′ach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ru′ach; but the word translated soul is ne′phesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.) (KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ru′ach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”) Eccl. 3:19: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, ru′ach].” (Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same ru ′ach, or spirit. Heb. 4:12: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two- edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul [Greek, psy·khes′; “life,” NE] and spirit [Greek, pneu′ma·tos], and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Observe that the Greek word for “spirit” is not the same as the word for “soul.”) Does conscious life continue for a person after the spirit leaves the body? Ps. 146:4: “His spirit [Hebrew, from ru ′ach] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (NAB, Ro, Yg, and Dy [145:4] here render ru′ach as “spirit.” Some translations say “breath.”) (Also Psalm 104:29)here render ru′ach as “spirit.” Some translations say “breath.”) (Also Psalm 104:29) “The concept of immortality of soul is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”— Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557. “Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”— Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35. “Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”—Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246. “The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556. |
| Re: "What Is Abraham’s Bosom?" by OLAADEGBU(op): 5:37pm On Nov 21, 2014 |
Spirit, Soul, Body "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23) The threefold nature of mankind reflects, to a degree, the triune nature of the Godhead. Just as each member of the triune God is complete and wholly God, yet distinct, so each aspect of mankind is also the whole, yet distinct. The body of man comprises the entire man, yet all is alive, with certain emotions, desires, and propensities; and yet again, the total man is endowed with a spiritual, eternal nature, somehow reflecting the image of God. These three reflect the three great creative acts of God during creation week, identified by the three usages of the Hebrew word bara, or create. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1); i.e., physical material. Later, certain of this physical material was granted consciousness (1:21), the "soul" which man shares with animals. On the sixth day, man was created as a spiritual being "in the image of God" (1:27), setting him qualitatively distinct from the animals, though he shares body and soul with the animals. As in our text, when the "God of peace" sets about the task of sanctifying representatives of sinful, fallen mankind, restoring such ones to a measure of Christlikeness, He does so in the order mentioned, beginning with a spiritual awakening. Then, through the transformed spirit, the soul is reached, and finally the body, with its appetites and lusts. The wisdom of man says just the opposite, claiming the inner man can be improved by changing outside influences, a mentality all too often reflected even in evangelistic efforts. God’s way is to start with the inner man—the root of the problem—and then affect the outer man. JDM For more . . . . |
| Re: "What Is Abraham’s Bosom?" by OLAADEGBU(op): 2:59pm On Aug 01, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:What is Abraham’s bosom? ![]() |
Ibadan Church Bans Leggings, Mini Skirts, Open Bosom & Topless Outfits (Photo) • How Many Sons Did Abraham Have? • 2 • 3 • 4
Spiritual Spouse And Its Remedies. • Redeemed Pastor Warns Nigerians Not To Vote Against Jonathan In 2015 • Where Is The Garden Of Eden?
