Abraham had only one son.

Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham when he was tried, offered up Isaac, , his only begotten son.

Genesis 22:2
Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, , and offer him there for a burnt offering.

Abraham had more than one son.

Genesis 16:15
And Hagar bare Abraham a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.

Genesis 21:2-3
For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son is his old age , And Abraham called him Isaac.

Genesis 25:1-2
Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

Galatians 4:22
Abraham had two sons; the one by a bond-woman, and the other by a free woman.

@firdaus4us

dont be quick to raise issues you are completely confused about. When God mentions Abraham's ONLY son, He is refering to the the Child of the Covenant/Child of promise, the one Abraham waited 25 yrs for! God's promise of a son to Abraham was to be through Sarah!
Look at Gen 17: 20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

God clearly acknowleges the fact that Ishmeal is Abraham's son too but He clearly delineates Isaac as the only son of Abraham that He recognized, the one through whom He would establish His Covenant with man!

When God talks about "thine only son Isaac" in Gen 22, He uses that phrase to emphatically state without the question of a doubt that He is refering to Isaac and Him only! After the birth of Ishmael, we here nothing about him nor his seed throughout the rest of the bible, not even the children of Keturah. ONLY Isaac is till today still being mentioned because He was the only one God recognized as the seed through which He would establish His covenant with Abraham!

If your plan was to kick up some mischief, it would do you good to realise that the bible is not only error proof (well not so to those who are confused and clearly blinded by their unbelief!) but corroborates itself in several other scriptures such that the enlightened reader is not left in doubt as to the mind of God.

This is a stark difference with that poetic book of literary gibberish you call the quran. It would do you well to first study the inconsistencies in the quran first before jumping on the "christians confess" bandwagon!

In case you forget, the quran quotes one certain Allah as having "Sent the bible", are you trying to admit that he sent an erroneous book?

i think he got 2

father abraham,has many sons
many sons has father abraham
i am one of them and so are u
so let us praise d lord


back to d topic.i honestly dont no bout d rest but i no bout issac and ishmael,he cld have so many children who nos.

Me and you. Two,  you see .simple!

dolly -pee:

father abraham,has many sons
many sons has father abraham
i am one of them and so are u
so let us praise d lord

DAMN i was gonna SING THAT SONG!!

Well that's the answer to this question.

@davidylan

You said:

"After the birth of Ishmael, we here nothing about him nor his seed throughout the rest of the bible, not even the children of Keturah."

What about Genesis 25:1-2 [color=#990000]

You also said:

"Gen 17: 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year."

This shows that Isaac is not the only son but at least one of the two. And to have more than one son but still refers to ONLY, shows that it is an injustice on the part of whoever wrote the bible. It would have been better if Isaac was older than Ishmeal, then that part of the bible would have been refering to when Isaac was the ONLY son.

@ firdaus4us

You are certainly up to more mischief! Did you read my post at all?
God clearly acknowleges the fact that Ishmeal is Abraham's son too but He clearly delineates Isaac as the only son of Abraham that He recognized, the one through whom He would establish His Covenant with man!

No where do i claim the bible ONLY talks about Isaac alone, clear reference is made to the fact that Ishmeal is also a son of Abraham but God clearly acknowledges Isaac as the one he would establish his covenant with that is why He refers to him almost as if he were Abraham's only son!

God clearly acknowleges the fact that Ishmeal is Abraham's son too but He clearly delineates Isaac as the only son of Abraham that He recognized, the one through whom He would establish His Covenant with man!

@davidylan

Your write-up will definately potray who you're. Always be mindful of ur statements.

Go through my post again and answer the question posted?

firdaus4us:

@davidylan

Your write-up will definately potray who you're. Always be mindful of your statements.

Go through my post again and answer the question posted?

According to my bible (i have quoted extensively for you!), Abraham had Ishmeal by Hagar, Isaac and the children born to him by keturah!
Why does the bible still refer to Isaac as "Abraham's only son"? Simple, because He was the CHILD OF PROMISE, he was the one promised specifically to Abraham AND THE ONLY ONE SARAH HAD! God considered Isaac to be the one through whom he would establish His covenant with Abraham, the covenant that still exists today in the Jewish nation today. Yes Abraham had other children but the dont factor into God's plan for Abraham and are thus not regarded important!

I know for sure that he had ISAAC which was the son God promised him from his beloved wife SARAH. and he also had a son from his maid that makes it two.
if there is any other then i don't know

He even married another wife called Keturah.

Genesis 25:1-2
Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

As davidylan believed that Abraham had a child out of wedlock (Abraham fornicated with Hagar). Did he fornicate with Keturah too to gave birth to: Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.?

firdaus4us:

He even married another wife called Keturah.
Genesis 25:1-2
Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

As davidylan believed that Abraham had a child out of wedlock (Abraham fornicated with Hagar). Did he fornicate with Keturah too to gave birth to: Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.?

Stop making noise! HE MARRIED SARAH, after her death HE MARRIED KETURAH! Where in the bible did you hear that he married hagar?

If that is the answer your holy ghost gave to u, ask him/her to give you the bible quotation that support it.
Note also that
Genesis 25:1-2
Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah,
Bring the bible quotation that confirm that marriage.

firdaus4us:

If that is the answer your holy ghost gave to u, ask him/her to give you the bible quotation that support it.
Note also that
Genesis 25:1-2
Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah,
Bring the bible quotation that confirm that marriage.

Dear Firdaus4them, your desperation to disprove the bible simply makes your ignorance even more apparent. In the bible, english is used in a format that is slightly different from our own. "Abraham TOOK a wife", in the bible the word TOOK used in that context translates to marriage.

See:
Genesis 11:29
And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Genesis 25:1
Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.

Without a question of a doubt, compare and contrast the LANGUAGE the bible uses to describe Hagar:
Genesis 21:10
Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac

Genesis 21:12
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called

Even though the bible does mention that Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham for "wife", it is clear that she is regarded NOT as a wife but as a SLAVE!

@davidyslain
Even though the bible does mention that Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham for "wife", it is clear that she is regarded NOT as a wife but as a SLAVE!

U mean holy demon makes u to contradict bible?
Gen16:3
So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

Can a bondwoman be a wife?

What is the difference btw: took a wife and be a wife?

firdaus4us:

@davidyslain
Even though the bible does mention that Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham for "wife", it is clear that she is regarded NOT as a wife but as a SLAVE!

U mean holy demon makes u to contradict bible?
Gen16:3
So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

Can a bondwoman be a wife?

What is the difference between: took a wife and be a wife?

You are confused! It is clear in the bible, Sarah gave Abraham her servant to sleep with to produce a son since she could not! Read!

@davidslain
Nothing is clear in the bible as regard this topic!

Sarah gave Abraham her servant to sleep
From you to Ibrahim, the father of faith. Fornication!
You are more confused!

Sarah gave , to produce a son.
Ibrahim is now the producer of child and he can't produce one through Sarah. You mean Ibrahim is hopeless after God assured him? That doesn't befit me let alone a prophet like Ibrahim, father of faith.

If you can't defend the topic more that this, pls as usual change it.

Abraham had more tham 2 sons from sarah, hargar and keturah, although ishmael and isaac are the most talked about and significant. Sarah gave hargar to abraham as a wife to enable her bear children for her. Remember that was the custom then.

You know why some people are so upset with Isaac? They are jealous with seething rage from the fact that Isaac was the covenant child and no one else - not Ishmael nor any of the sons of Keturah. God didn't hate Ishmael, but indeed it was through Isaac's lineage that the rest of the world would be blessed (including the descendants of his half brothers -Ishmael and the sons of Keturah).

If you trace the lineage of the sons of Keturah, not one of them has been jealous of Isaac.

But the lineage of Ishmael have been seethingly antagonistic against anything that pertains to Isaac - and that started happening even before Ishmael and his mother Hagar were sent away from "home".

Now, the sending away from home attests to the fact that God did not recognise Sarah's action of marrying Hagar to Abraham as legal. How do you send your own "wife" away - if she was really, legally your "wife"? When the quarrel arose at home from the antagonism from Ishmael, Sarah didn't call Hagar a "wife" to Abraham; rather she said in Gen. 21:10 --

"Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."

See? Sarah didn't call Hagar 'mate' or 'second iyawo' - rather, even after the birth of Ishmael, Sarah knew that Hagar was still a bondwoman!

Of all the sons of Abraham through Sarah, Hagar and Keturah, only Isaac was called and specially marked out by God as the promised child of the covenant - that's why the Hebrew writer referred to Isaac as Abraham's only begotten son. Hard pill to swallow? Deal with the seething rage and jealousy of Ishmael the son of the bondwoman, and voila!

point of correction; it was normal then for a woman to give her maid to her husband for the sake of having children. There was n't anything wrong with that, even God did not count that as a sin against Abraham, or did He?? secondly on the issue of jealousy, i think jealousy started from Sarah. Sarah was jealous of Hager and her son ishmael even at the beginning when Hagar became pregnant, she was maltreated by Sarah which made her run away from Abraham's home; but God intervened and asked her to go back, but this time around with showers of blessings. Now also remember that Hagar was one of those women in the Bible that God's angel appeared to and was given God's blessings. This happened to her twice in the Bible, just to tell you how blessed she is. Please Read Gen 16 & 17 to see for yourself. And God also blessed ishmael because he is Abraham's seed. God said to abraham "as for ishmael i will bless him because he is also thy seed". So for God to have said that he meant that ishmael was Abraham's son too, and the whole blessings of Abraham extends also to him and his descendants. Correct me if i'm wrong o, it is written in the Bible, no be me talk am.

@ishmael,

I really think you've mixed up issues.

1. It might have been a custom - of who? That Sarah followed the custom of the people of the day did not make it legal in God's eyes. This is clear from two things:

(a) I may be wrong, but where did God refer to Hagar as Abraham's "wife"? Of course, we read in Gen. 17:15 that God addressed Sarah directly as Abraham's "wife", later in the same chpater (verse 12) God Himself called Hagar Abraham's "bondwoman". The point is that if Sarah's action was legally binding in God's eyes, He would most definitely had called Hagar the "wife" of Abraham, rather than a "bondwoman". Guess what he called Ishmael in the same relationship? "And also the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."

(b) Again, Hagar did not protest this fact when she was asked about her plight in the wilderness, for she did not brag about being a wife of Abraham, but in humility confessed that Sarah was her "mistress" (not "mate" - Gen. 16:8; neither did the angel of the Lord correct her, but said: "Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hand" (verse 19).

So, you see that when you read and make inferences, it helps to clearly see the big picture - for it is not what men make of an issue that matters, but rather what and how God sees a matter.

2. I don't read Sarah as being jealous of Hagar from the onset, because the Bible says that when Hagar saw that she had conceived (became preganant), she despised Sarah (Gen. 16:4). That was what actually resulted in Sarah's maltreatment of Hagar to show the latter that she was still maid/bondwoman and not on equal status with her as "wife" or "co-wife". I've already shared that not one time was Hagar referred to as 'wife' - whether by Gd or Abraham himself.

I might have used the wrong word or drawn the wrong inference of jealousy. But notice that four years after Ishmael was born, God appeared to Abraham and asked him to "walk before Me and be thou perfect" (Gen. 16:16-17:1). Why do you think God made this dramatic call to Abraham? I offer that from the context of what went before, it is obvious that not all was well in Abraham's home. There again I may be wrong; but at the end of the day, something was just not right in the relationships at home - and God yet in His condescension blessed Ishmael for Abraham's sake.

3. Bottomline is that God's purpose (even before Ishmael was born) was that Isaac was to be the seed to whom the covenant appertained (Gen. 17:19). That did not mean that Ishmael and the sons of Keturah were cursed by God, for indeed God blessed them. However, of Ishmael we read: "And he will be a wild man; and his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren" (Gen. 16:12).

The promise to Isaac through Abraham has come to all the world through Jesus Christ - for it was He actually that was the real Seed prophecied about from Gen. 3:15 - "the Seed of the woman". Remember Gal. 3:16 that clearly identifies Christ as the Seed? Voila, mon ami! C'est fini!

ishmael:

when Hagar became pregnant, she was maltreated by Sarah which made her run away from Abraham's home; but God intervened and asked her to go back, but this time around with showers of blessings.

1. Gen 16:4And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and[b] when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.[/b]
5And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.

In your haste to stand history on its head by claiming Hagar was "maltreated" by Sarah, you conveniently forgot to include that Hagar was the first to despise Sarah simply because she now had a son. Can you as a childless woman imagine your housegirl gloating over you simply because she now had a child for oga? I'm sure you'd be throwing her a party!

2. Gen 16:12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Do those words in bold connote your own version of "showers of blessing"?

ishmael:

And God also blessed ishmael because he is Abraham's seed. God said to abraham "as for ishmael i will bless him because he is also thy seed". So for God to have said that he meant that ishmael was Abraham's son too, and the whole blessings of Abraham extends also to him and his descendants. Correct me if i'm wrong o, it is written in the Bible, no be me talk am.

Gen 16:12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Little wonder Islam and its adherents have become the world's albatross!

ishmael:

Now also remember that Hagar was one of those women in the Bible that God's angel appeared to and was given God's blessings. This happened to her twice in the Bible, just to tell you how blessed she is. Please Read Gen 16 & 17 to see for yourself.

An angel of God appeared unto Balaam on the way to meet Balak at the end of the day he was called a mad prophet!
God spoke through Balaam's ass, would you regard that ass as a "blessed" ass?

Why are you jumping some verses?? Why not put down the whole genesis here. You are only selecting verses that will suit your points. You are not saying the truth pally. Can u also list or spell out the blessings of isaac for us to see??

ishmael:

Why are you jumping some verses?? Why not put down the whole genesis here. You are only selecting verses that will suit your points. You are not saying the truth pally. Can u also list or spell out the blessings of isaac for us to see??

Stop ranting young man! Selecting verses that suit whose points? Can you mention any other place in the bible besides a few chapters in Genesis where Ishmeal and Hagar are refered to or alluded to by God?

I dont have to put down the whole part of Gen, the most important "blessings" God reserved for Ishmeal where those i quoted earlier, every other "blessing" is of no basic relevance as far as God's covenant and plan and purpose for mankind is concerned!

Here is just a few of the blessings of Isaac that was passed down to Jacob;

Gen 27: 28Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

29Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.

"thy brethren" there also includes our dear "blessed brother Ishmeal!"

My advice to you is for you to stop giving literal meanings to the word of God.

ishmael:

My advice to you is for you to stop giving literal meanings to the word of God.

And may i ask which meaning of the bible you know? Cherry picking sentences that suit your Islamic doctrine of lies, deception and debauchery?

And pray! Since when did the bible become the word of your "god" that cannot even be seen in paradise because as one of your scholars decided to dribble us "he is too immense!"

@davidylan,firdaus4them is severely wounded at your exposure of Mo and his many wives and concubines including helpless slaves and children.
He is nursing the festering ulcer resulting from the fact that someone dared call Islam the fraud it is with concrete proofs,hence his utterances at blaspheming the Holy Spirit and starting up ignorant arguments.

Abraham had only one child of promise according to the Bible.
The others came from his loins but were not the promised that is why God is referred to as the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob.(not of Ismael and the others).

I remember back home when they are killing a chicken,if the head is cut off and you accidentally let go,the chicken flaps around violently before succumbing.
Firdaus4them is that chicken with no head,he is darting from topic to topic hoping to annoy someone in his bid to discredit the Bible.
The same Bible his allah told him to learn from us.

Keep up the good works and don't let the dying chicken spray it's blood on you before it's final goodnight and if it does,there is nothing omo or surf cannot take care of.

@ Babyosisi

Thank you my sister, i covet your prayers that Our Father in Heaven continue to grant us the grace to stand in Him and be able to stand against evil!

I've tried to lay the points open for our dear friend ishmael, and capped it up with "C'est fini" because I anticipated that there could just be no end in sight of arguing with those calling "Hagar" the "wife" of Abraham - even where the same texts in the Bible they quote disproves their points. It seems that no matter how evidently a matter stands, our Muslim discussants are ready to go any length to recast Biblical naratives - which only weakens their inputs all the more. One thing I appreciate, though, is that ishmael could at least acknowledge that the Bible is the Word of God, even though he has his own un-literal meanings to it:

ishmael:

My advice to you is for you to stop giving literal meanings to the word of God.

Anyhow, Davidylan has helped to remind us again, in response to ishmael's request, that Isaac's blessings include being lord over his brethren. That says it all.

Babyosisi, hope you're doing great? It seems to me that anytime I greet other Nairaland members, uncle 'Wale is ready to write me off as a 'fornicator' - by Islamic standards. Wetin I go do?? Lol.

4get_ me,I followed the discussion with my inlaw olabowale and the fornicator stuff.
I was beside myself in shock.
I was not too suprised any way because Islamic teachings has a lot to do with sex.
Muhammad spent an awful time in both the teachings and the practice of it first hand and many of the Ayatollahs teachings centered on sex with girls and even animals including sexual arousal from babies

Muslim women are asked to cover up and wear flowing maxis,not be seen outside alone or drive in some Islamic countriies or even work in order to prevent the men from lusting.
They are to ride in seperate buses or in some countries at the back of the bus with a different entrance to prevent the men from lusting and grabbing them.

In most places they do not attend the mosques and when they do,must worship in a seperate area including during hajj,they have their own areas to prevent the oversexed males from lusting.

Now,any wonder that the topic would always be in their minds?
But you are a man of God filled with the Holy Spirit, a husband of one wife who has forsaken all others,a concept impossible for them to grasp afterall they need three more to fulfill their desires.
The Bible said you are one with your sweetheart and you should seek no other.
God didn't just say it,he gave you the Holy Spirit as your guide and comforter such that you can withstand these things by his power.
They cannot understand how possible that can be.
They do not understand that I, a woman can say to Davidylan,to you and to my brother TayoD 'I love you" and not have any sexual undertone.
Or that you can smile and be courteous to a lady because you are a gentleman and not have any desires to take it to the bedroom.
It is impossible for them to understand that.
You owe him no explanations.

I Cor 13 is a powerful passage on love(for anyone who wants to know).
There is nothing any Christian can do by their own strength.
Christ is the only difference between uncle wale and yourself and without Christ the Bible says the heart of man is desperately wicked.

Continue to trust in Him and forgive the spoken and written hurtful words.
God knows your heart,let Him be true and all men liars.

Davidylan, 4get_me and Babyosisi i'm a christian o. So please do not in anyway associate me with islam. I still repeat it; I am a christian.

Back to our arguement,
1.Gen 16:3 says "Sarai took her maid hagar and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife".
2. Gen 16:15 Hagar bore Abram a[b] son[/b]; and Abram named his son whom Hagar bore Ishmael.
3. Gen 17:23 "So Abram took Ishmael his[b] son [/b] , "
4. Gen 17:25 "And Ishmael his son was 13 years old when he was circumcised".
5. Gen 17:26 "That very sameday Abraham was circumcised, and his[b] son [/b] Ishmael".

Secondly Gal 4:22 said "For it is written that Abraham had 2 sons".

And lastly we all are sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus".

Gal 3:29 "And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise".

Gal 3:7 "Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham".

My brothers we all are sons of Abraham; that was why i said we should not give literal meaning to the word of God.

Now even Ishmaelites or call them Arabs if you like that are in Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. If any of the sons of Isaac or Jacob(Israel) is not in christ then he is not a son of Abraham and cannot be heir to Abraham's blessings. Gal 3:7 says " Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham".