₦airaland Forum

davien:
I believe the criteria for anything to be said to be living should encompass all these:
If it is metabolic.
If it is composed of individual substituents(cells) or exist as such.
If it grows.
If it responds to stimuli.
If it reproduces.
If it changes over time(evolves).
And if it can maintain a stable internal environment(homeostasis)..

Myself, I think that consciousness is fundamental, pervasive and life itself.

sinequanon:
Myself, I think that consciousness is fundamental and pervasive.

How do you define consciousness?

davien:
How do you define consciousness?

I don't define consciousness.

I know/experience consciousness.

Do you?

An additional question: do you believe you have free will, or do you believe the materialist position that you are a machine with an illusion of free will?

sinequanon:
I don't define consciousness.

Then I cannot tell what you mean when you use the word,consciousness is a vague term....
A definition is needed so as to talk on the same plane field and not arbitrarily.

I know/experience consciousness.

Telling me you "know/experience" consciousness tells me nothing of what you mean.
For all I know what you call "consciousness" might be a fuzzy euphoric feeling you get from time to time.

Do you?

I can't say because you are yet to give me your definition.

An additional question: do you believe you have free will, or do you believe the materialist position that you are a machine with an illusion of free will?

What is "free-will"?

davien:
Then I cannot tell what you mean when you use the word,consciousness is a vague term....
A definition is needed so as to talk on the same plane field and not arbitrarily.

Nope. We just can't discuss it with you.

davien:
Telling me you "know/experience" consciousness tells me nothing of what you mean.

Correct. So I discuss with other people who do know.

[quote author=davien post=28399839]For all I know...

Absolutely! I have no reason to convince you. You asked the question. You are not one of the people who are on the same wavelength to understand my answer. End of question answer session.

davien:
I can't say because you are yet to give me your definition.
What is "free-will"?

Fair enough. You don't know if you have free will or are conscious.

sinequanon....you claim you "know" you have "consciousness" yet you cannot give a definition of what you mean...nor explain how you "know" but claim since I do not "know" and not "in the same wavelength" therefore the argument is over?
What makes you different from an arrogant theist who'd claim knowledge that cannot be justified?

davien:
sinequanon....you claim you "know" you have "consciousness" yet you cannot give a definition of what you mean...nor explain how you "know" but claim since I do not "know" and not "in the same wavelength" therefore the argument is over?
What makes you different from an arrogant theist who'd claim knowledge that cannot be justified?

There is no arrogance. Quite the opposite.

I accept that people are different and I can only discuss "consciousness" with people who share my characterization of it.

Maybe there are people with whom you have a way of discussion "consciousness" (maybe through scientific "definition".)

What is arrogant about respecting differences. I am not forcing my opinion on you.

sinequanon:
There is no arrogance. Quite the opposite.

I accept that people are different and I can only discuss "consciousness" with people who share my characterization of it.

The bolded is your arrogance and bigotry..you can only share a conversation with people who also share your own "characterization".

Maybe there are people with whom you have a way of discussion "consciousness" (maybe through scientific "definition".)

You are right...honest people will give a clear definition of what they mean.
And I merely asked for your definition..doesn't have to be a scientific one.

What is arrogant about respecting differences. I am not forcing my opinion on you.

I know you aren't enforcing an opinion on me,but giving broad statements of knowledge you can't and will not justify because others don't share it is arrogance.

davien:
I know you aren't enforcing an opinion on me,but giving broad statements of knowledge you can't and will not justify because others don't share it is arrogance.

Well I guess we have different ideas of what arrogance is, too.

Everybody who speaks has to justify themselves to you, otherwise they are arrogant. That's ironic! LOL!

(You are right, in some respects, though. I am arrogant enough to say each to his own, and mean it. Bye!)

sinequanon:
Well I guess we have different ideas of what arrogance is, too.

not different ideas.....you are merely denying the fact of it.

Everybody who speaks has to justify themselves to you, otherwise they are arrogant. That's ironic! LOL!

Claiming you have knowledge and then refusing to give that knowledge because others do not think as you do is arrogance...no matter how you look at it

(You are right, in some respects, though. I am arrogant enough to say each to his own, and mean it. Bye!)

You've merely displayed your arrogance and bigotry towards others who don't think as you do.