₦airaland Forum

jesus says "...only those who follow my paths shall see the kingdom of heaven"is christmas part of jesus'paths? nobody dies for your sins...2 chronicles 25 vs 4,gregorian calendar is nt even the biblical calendar,adar is the 12th calendar month mentioned in the bible not december.lets reason together lets folow d paths of prophet jesus a.s

o9999:
My grandma does not know her birthday. But to make her part of the fun, we let her choose a date we celebrate for her (am guguessing my dad's date is also a fixed date... Not the real thing ). Now pls someone tell me that cos they were NOT EXACTLY born on those dates, when we celebrate the birthdays, we r doing something wrong??

25th Dec, 5th March, June 11th, Sept 30th I can go on and on .....
The Que is what's d reason for d celebration? As long as you bear Jesus in mind and DEDICATE d day to his birth, pls let grow beyond this "they said , they fixed, a catholic priest, a pagan god" and give adoration and importance to one worthy of it!

D fact that he is still worthy of this much attention& discussions over 2000yrs after his death....... Stop fault finding and love him already

Your grandma chose a date, and you celebrated with her.... she consented.

Conversely, if your grandma lives in an era when birthday celebration is popular, but never celebrated hers and never told you to do so for her when she is dead, would you consider it wise to choose a date and be celebrating her birthday yearly when she is dead?

Jesus is not your grandma, so, did not choose a date for his family members, friends and fellowship members for his birthday celebration. Birthday celebration was popular in his time, but neither celebrated nor told us to do so.

To him, what was of profound importance was the day of his death... Luke 22:19

"A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth''. Eccl. 7:8 - KJV

JMAN05:
Ubenedictus

“The date of December 25 does not correspond to Christ’s birth,” acknowledges the New Catholic Encyclopedia, “but to the feast of the Natalis Solis Invicti, the Roman sun festival at the solstice.”

i already told u before in d other thread, catholic encyclopedia is not an authoritative catholic source, wat is written there is d opinion of a writter which after futher studies i am free to disagree with.

Mods, the anti-spam bot keeps banning and blocking my posts.

Horus:
"The pot calling the kettle black" . You are the one who perform mental gymnastics and denials to avoid answering my question. If I said that you cannot find the word CHRISTMAS in my first post, it is not a lie it is an irrefutable fact, so dont try to divert the debate or you will start to make yourself look like a fool. We all can see you are the liar here

Show me where I used the word CHRISTMAS in my first post?

After this question was asked to you more than five times ask yourself why you are still unable to find this word in my first post?.

Your diverting technique dont work so stop wasting time and answer the question

AGAIN, Show me where I used the word CHRISTMAS in my first post?

i do not need to show whether or not you wrote the word "christmas", all i need to show is your post where you claimed that Jesus' date of birth was set on the 25th by a pope in the 15th century. The thread and your subsequent gymnastics is a testament that you erred and that Christ's date of birth was settled at 25 at least a mellinium before the 15 century and at least a melinium before the said pope even born. All you need do is correct yourself.

Have a blessed day.

Ubenedictus:
i do not need to show whether or not you wrote the word "christmas", all i need to show is your post where you claimed that Jesus' date of birth was set on the 25th by a pope in the 15th century. The thread and your subsequent gymnastics is a testament that you erred and that Christ's date of birth was settled at 25 at least a mellinium before the 15 century and at least a melinium before the said pope even born. All you need do is correct yourself.

Have a blessed day.

The date that you are talking about have nothing to do with Jesus' date of birth, he was born in the summer. You seem to suffer from visual impairment when reading my first post or you are just adding or subtracting anything that you do not like from my first post to dance in and out of the truth. It is You who are the one doing subsequent gymnastics to avoid reading the purpose of my first post. Notice that my first post have a title and the title is: Jesus Was Born In The Summer. (Read it again) Coincidence?, No. And this is the reason why the word "christmas" was never used. My conclusion is that it is obvious that you just behave in an untrustworthy, deceitful, and insincere way.

^^^

Horus:
Jesus Was Born In The Summer

Sadly, most modern day Christians think that Jesus was born on December 25, a date established by Pope Clement VII (1478-1534 A.D.), a Roman Emperor. He became Pope in November of 1523-1534. With that, it became believable that Jesus was born on December 25, a winter month. But the mere fact that the shepherds were outdoors in the fields tending their flocks, which they only did in the summer months, Jesus son of Mary was in fact, based on the scriptures of Luke 2:8 born in the summer. In Jerusalem during the month of December, it is very cold, and there is no way this child could be born in the cold.

During the high point of the summer solstice between June 23 through the highest point being June 26, when the sheep would be brazing in the field, is when Jesus son of Mary was born.

Luke 2:8 “And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.”
Luke 2:12 “And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.”
Luke 2:15 “And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.”
So, this quote refers to Jesus as a babe and the Greek word being used here in the Bible is brephos for newborn or infant. So, as you just read, this proves that the baby Jesus was born during the summer, in the year 7 A.D. based on the death of Herod.

How can we believe this story of yours which begins with an obvious lie in bold...and which has the lie as its anchor?

"When a problem arose between Jacob and Esau, Rebekah convinced Isaac to send Jacob to Padamaram for awhile.
"And Isaac sent away Jacob: and he went to Padanaram unto Laban, son of Bethuel
the Syrian, the brother of Rebekah, Jacob's and Esau's mother." (Gn 28: 5)
Jacob stayed there for twenty years tending Laban's cattle. When he left he had an argument with Laban, his father-in-law, to whom he said:
"38 This twenty years have I been with thee; thy ewes and thy she goats have
not cast their young, and the rams of thy flock have I not eaten. 39 That which was
torn of beasts I brought not unto thee; I bare the loss of it; of my hand didst thou
require it, whether stolen by day, or stolen by night. 40 Thus I was; in the day the
drought consumed me, and the frost by night; and my sleep departed from mine eyes."
( Gn 31: 38- 40 )

The bold above is proof that shepherds can stay in the fields with the sheep on cold winter nights in Israel.

And the part of Israel talked about above is colder than Bethlehem where Christ was born.

Horus:
The date that you are talking about have nothing to do with Jesus' date of birth, he was born in the summer. You seem to suffer from visual impairment when reading my first post or you are just adding or subtracting anything that you do not like from my first post to dance in and out of the truth. It is You who are the one doing subsequent gymnastics to avoid reading the purpose of my first post. Notice that my first post have a title and the title is: Jesus Was Born In The Summer. (Read it again) Coincidence?, No. And this is the reason why the word "christmas" was never used. My conclusion is that it is obvious that you just behave in an untrustworthy, deceitful, and insincere way.

hahaha, your post started with a lie and you can't even acknoledge that. Now i am wondering why i have been wasting my time trying to get a proud man to correct his erros. You can continue broadcasting your lie that the date of Christs birth was set on the 25th in the 15th, you will be d one looking stupid.

italo:
^^^



How can we believe this story of yours which begins with an obvious lie in bold...and which has the lie as its anchor?

"When a problem arose between Jacob and Esau, Rebekah convinced Isaac to send Jacob to Padamaram for awhile.
"And Isaac sent away Jacob: and he went to Padanaram unto Laban, son of Bethuel
the Syrian, the brother of Rebekah, Jacob's and Esau's mother." (Gn 28: 5)
Jacob stayed there for twenty years tending Laban's cattle. When he left he had an argument with Laban, his father-in-law, to whom he said:
"38 This twenty years have I been with thee; thy ewes and thy she goats have
not cast their young, and the rams of thy flock have I not eaten. 39 That which was
torn of beasts I brought not unto thee; I bare the loss of it; of my hand didst thou
require it, whether stolen by day, or stolen by night. 40 Thus I was; in the day the
drought consumed me, and the frost by night; and my sleep departed from mine eyes."
( Gn 31: 38- 40 )

The bold above is proof that shepherds can stay in the fields with the sheep on cold winter nights in Israel.

And the part of Israel talked about above is colder than Bethlehem where Christ was born.

help me tell am oh....

Horus:
The date that you are talking about have nothing to do with Jesus' date of birth, he was born in the summer. You seem to suffer from visual impairment when reading my first post or you are just adding or subtracting anything that you do not like from my first post to dance in and out of the truth. It is You who are the one doing subsequent gymnastics to avoid reading the purpose of my first post. Notice that my first post have a title and the title is: Jesus Was Born In The Summer. (Read it again) Coincidence?, No. And this is the reason why the word "christmas" was never used. My conclusion is that it is obvious that you just behave in an untrustworthy, deceitful, and insincere way.

hahaha, your post started with a lie and you can't even acknoledge that. Now i am wondering why i have been wasting my time trying to get a proud man to correct his erros. You can continue broadcasting your lie that the date of Christs birth was set on the 25th in the 15th, you will be d one looking stupid.

Horus:
[size=19pt]Why are you editing your previous post?
(Your dishonesty reached its peak)[/size]

Below was your post before you edited it where you claim that I used the word: christmas



Why you cannot quote the word christmas that you claim that I used in my first post?. Use quote to show me where, and if you cannot find the word christmas in my first post then you lied. You are dishonest period!. I am still waiting to see the word christmas in my first post. Show me that word or stop claiming that I used a word that you cannot even see in my first post.

[size=19pt]Only a LIAR will edite his post to erase his own lie[/size]

U're not religious, u're not even a christian, u don't even believe Jesus was born at all, talk more of believing him as Lord and Saviour. U could be an atheist, not believing anything about a supreme deity (I stand to be corrected?). Christmas or Christ or Christianity has no meaning to u YET here u are arguing passionately about Christ and his birth, making silly accusations and counter-accusations, jumping into threads that has to do with Christ/Christianity

Or are u a christian in denial?
Ask urself what u've been doing here. Oh lemme guess, intellectual pursuit? Correcting historical blunder? Enlightening us because we're "ignorant"?

No that's not what u're doing here at all.

An annoying trend is that some brainwashed christians who can't make any research for themselves will use atheist arguments like urs to attack their fellow christians. I don't blame them. Such is life. Ah! Christians and atheists VS christians only. Lol

Horus, deep down ur soul, i can sense d intuitive insatiable hunger for God. I pray that u find the "I AM" and find salvation. Amen. That is why u're here. That is why u're on threads that has to do with religion/God/Christ/Christianity

"U have made us for urself Oh Lord and our souls find no rest until it finds rest in thee" - St Augustine

Are u upset? Are u astonished at how "stupid" and "naïve" I could be? Did u just call me a simpleton in ur mind? If only I could read more books and be enlightened abi? If only we could be intellectually "upgraded" enough to realize that xtianity is a scam abi? Do u have books u wanna recommend I should read?

Or do u just wanna call me names?

Ubenedictus:
hahaha, your post started with a lie and you can't even acknoledge that. Now i am wondering why i have been wasting my time trying to get a proud man to correct his erros. You can continue broadcasting your lie that the date of Christs birth was set on the 25th in the 15th, you will be d one looking stupid.

When did I said that?. You give a date without month? Just agree that you cannot deal with facts that he was born in the summer. If you claim that someone say a lie then you have to demonstrate it, otherwise your accusation are just merely a claim, not backed up and not demonstrated by evidence or argument. At the moment you are still unable to demonstrate the veracity of anything you said. No proofs no references, no sources and no facts. All you do is sending unproven accusations by taking part of my post out of context to avoid dealing with facts. You keep rotting in your own negativity

italo:
^^^



How can we believe this story of yours which begins with an obvious lie in bold...and which has the lie as its anchor?

"When a problem arose between Jacob and Esau, Rebekah convinced Isaac to send Jacob to Padamaram for awhile.
"And Isaac sent away Jacob: and he went to Padanaram unto Laban, son of Bethuel
the Syrian, the brother of Rebekah, Jacob's and Esau's mother." (Gn 28: 5)
Jacob stayed there for twenty years tending Laban's cattle. When he left he had an argument with Laban, his father-in-law, to whom he said:
"38 This twenty years have I been with thee; thy ewes and thy she goats have
not cast their young, and the rams of thy flock have I not eaten. 39 That which was
torn of beasts I brought not unto thee; I bare the loss of it; of my hand didst thou
require it, whether stolen by day, or stolen by night. 40 Thus I was; in the day the
drought consumed me, and the frost by night; and my sleep departed from mine eyes."
( Gn 31: 38- 40 )

The bold above is proof that shepherds can stay in the fields with the sheep on cold winter nights in Israel.

And the part of Israel talked about above is colder than Bethlehem where Christ was born.

No thank! I dont deal with beliefs I deal only with facts. Jesus Was Born In The Summer, just deal with the fact. You are so desperate to try to make me believe that snow can fall in the summer that you are even resorting to weather patterns manipulation. You cannot change the past so you cannot use the HAARP project to change the weather of the past. At the moment you are so busy saying: I dont know what I am talking about that you dont realise that you really dont know what you are talking about.

Horus:
No thank! I dont deal with beliefs I deal only with facts. Jesus Was Born In The Summer, just deal with the fact. You are so desperate to try to make me believe that snow can fall in the summer that you are even resorting to weather patterns manipulation. You cannot change the past so you cannot use the HAARP project to change the weather of the past. At the moment you are so busy saying: I dont know what I am talking about that you dont realise that you really dont know what you are talking about.

We should believe Jesus was born in the summer as fact because Horus says so?

We should believe 25th of December was chosen in the 15th century because Horus says so?

We should believe Boko Haram is a Christian group when Horus says so?

We should believe all these unfounded and baseless things if only Horus says them?

Horus:
When did I said that?. You give a date without month? Just agree that you cannot deal with facts that he was born in the summer. If you claim that someone say a lie then you have to demonstrate it, otherwise your accusation are just merely a claim, not backed up and not demonstrated by evidence or argument. At the moment you are still unable to demonstrate the veracity of anything you said. No proofs no references, no sources and no facts. All you do is sending unproven accusations by taking part of my post out of context to avoid dealing with facts. You keep rotting in your own negativity

This is the lie you started your post with: "Sadly, most modern day Christians think that Jesus was born on December 25, a date established by Pope Clement VII (1478-1534 A.D.), a Roman Emperor."

How was it taken out of context and what is the proper context?

You accuse him of not offering proof, where is your proof that shepherds cannot graze in Bethlehem winter?

italo:
We should believe Jesus was born in the summer as fact because Horus says so?

We should believe 25th of December was chosen in the 15th century because Horus says so?

We should believe Boko Haram is a Christian group when Horus says so?

We should believe all these unfounded and baseless things if only Horus says them?

You should know that 25th of December is not in the summer, get your fact right!.

When did I said that Boko Haram is a Christian group?

I just said in my previous post that I dont deal with beliefs, I deal only with facts. So why do you think that I want you to believe something? Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, one does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Hence, belief is ignorance and religious beliefs without the facts is ignorance; so demand that anyone attempting to impose their religious beliefs, they are to produce the facts. The most deceptive word in religion is “believe” or “belief”, because a person can believe anything, and this means that person can believe, and be 100% wrong. Knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. “To know” gives ones confidence, yet belief infers doubt.

Your accusations are baseless and just claims

italo:
This is the lie you started your post with: "Sadly, most modern day Christians think that Jesus was born on December 25, a date established by Pope Clement VII (1478-1534 A.D.), a Roman Emperor."

How was it taken out of context and what is the proper context?

You accuse him of not offering proof, where is your proof that shepherds cannot graze in Bethlehem winter?

Yourself realise that this post was adressed to Ubenedictus, so allow Ubenedictus to reply first to the post
Let him give proofs of his fasle accusations first. Come back later when he will give his own reply

Horus:
You should know that 25th of December is not in the summer, get your fact right!.

When did I said that Boko Haram is a Christian group?

I just said in my previous post that I dont deal with beliefs, I deal only with facts. So why do you think that I want you to believe something? Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, one does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Hence, belief is ignorance and religious beliefs without the facts is ignorance; so demand that anyone attempting to impose their religious beliefs, they are to produce the facts. The most deceptive word in religion is “believe” or “belief”, because a person can believe anything, and this means that person can believe, and be 100% wrong. Knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. “To know” gives ones confidence, yet belief infers doubt.

Your accusations are baseless and just claims

You have no proof that Jesus was born in summer since shepherds can graze in Bethlehem winter.

I have proof that you lied.

Sadly, most modern day Christians think that Jesus was born on December 25, a date established by Pope Clement VII (1478-1534 A.D.), a Roman Emperor

italo:
^^^



How can we believe this story of yours which begins with an obvious lie in bold...and which has the lie as its anchor?

"When a problem arose between Jacob and Esau, Rebekah convinced Isaac to send Jacob to Padamaram for awhile.
"And Isaac sent away Jacob: and he went to Padanaram unto Laban, son of Bethuel
the Syrian, the brother of Rebekah, Jacob's and Esau's mother." (Gn 28: 5)
Jacob stayed there for twenty years tending Laban's cattle. When he left he had an argument with Laban, his father-in-law, to whom he said:
"38 This twenty years have I been with thee; thy ewes and thy she goats have
not cast their young, and the rams of thy flock have I not eaten. 39 That which was
torn of beasts I brought not unto thee; I bare the loss of it; of my hand didst thou
require it, whether stolen by day, or stolen by night. 40 Thus I was; in the day the
drought consumed me, and the frost by night; and my sleep departed from mine eyes."
( Gn 31: 38- 40 )

The bold above is proof that shepherds can stay in the fields with the sheep on cold winter nights in Israel.

And the part of Israel talked about above is colder than Bethlehem where Christ was born.

Questions
1.where is padanaram in isreal?what's their present climatic condition.
2. What's the distance from Bethlehem.
3 . Did the scriptures state that Jacob "was in the field" during this time.

Bros , I been go one country near that area this same period sometime ago,Bro it was cold both indoors and outdoors (despite modern building structure, unlike jacobs time. And we should note, Kevin no get duvee o ). I was even praying to see the heat and mosquito of naija as soon as possible

italo:
You have no proof that Jesus was born in summer since shepherds can graze in Bethlehem winter.

The shepherds were outdoors in the fields tending their flocks, which they only did in the summer months

Now your December 25th is simply the Roman Festival of Saturnalia to worship the Roman god Saturn. Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'birthday of the unconquered sun' and was held on December 25th (when the Romans thought the Winter Solstice took place) and was the 'birthday' of the Pagan Sun god Mithra.

Horus:
The shepherds were outdoors in the fields tending their flocks, which they only did in the summer months

Now your December 25th is simply the Roman Festival of Saturnalia to worship the Roman god Saturn. Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'birthday of the unconquered sun' and was held on December 25th (when the Romans thought the Winter Solstice took place) and was the 'birthday' of the Pagan Sun god Mithra.

You have no proof of the bold.

I have proof that shepherds tend their sheep in the fields in winters that are even far colder than that of Bethlehem.

Here are pictures.

dolphinheart:
Questions
1.where is padanaram in isreal?what's their present climatic condition.
2. What's the distance from Bethlehem.
3 . Did the scriptures state that Jacob "was in the field" during this time.

Bros , I been go one country near that area this same period sometime ago,Bro it was cold both indoors and outdoors (despite modern building structure, unlike jacobs time. And we should note, Kevin no get duvee o ). I was even praying to see the heat and mosquito of naija as soon as possible

I guess the pics above show that shepherds could easily tend their sheep in fields in winter.

The place you went to, was it as cold as you see in the pics?

italo:
I guess the pics above show that shepherds could easily tend their sheep in fields in winter.

The place you went to, was it as cold as you see in the pics?

Sir, u did not answer my questions
To add to it,
4) where and when where this pictures taken
5)what are the shepherds doing here. tending sheep in the field? Wey the grass?

dolphinheart:
Sir, u did not answer my questions
To add to it,
4) where and when where this pictures taken
5)what are the shepherds doing here. tending sheep in the field? Wey the grass?

What relevance do these questions have?

The bible says shepherds were watching their sheep.

It didn't mention "tending" or "feeding" or "grass" ...and I have shown you shepherds watching their flocks in fields in winters colder than that of Israel.

What else are you fighting for?

italo:
What relevance do these questions have?

The bible says shepherds were watching their sheep.

It didn't mention "tending" or "feeding" or "grass" ...and I have shown you shepherds watching their flocks in fields in winters colder than that of Israel.

What else are you fighting for?

Sir, the questions are relevant .
I want to know the location of pandanaram so as to comfirm if its in isreal like u said and also know its climate during Dec period.

On the pic issue , we dnt know where that picture is taking yet
Personaly to me, I see shepherds moving sheeps, and I believe they are being moved for a reason not explained by the pics.
The pic ill like to see is shepherds sitting or standing together in the open at night in December in isreal with sheeps looking at both the shepherds and the camera like " are you humans nuts! "

dolphinheart:
Sir, the questions are relevant .
I want to know the location of pandanaram so as to comfirm if its in isreal like u said and also know its climate during Dec period.

On the pic issue , we dnt know where that picture is taking yet
Personaly to me, I see shepherds moving sheeps, and I believe they are being moved for a reason not explained by the pics.
The pic ill like to see is shepherds sitting or standing together in the open at night in December in isreal with sheeps looking at both the shepherds and the camera like " are you humans nuts! "

Sorry, I thought I was conversing with a human being that thinks, not a computer virus.

italo:
Sorry, I thought I was conversing with a human being that thinks, not a computer virus.

Yeah ! Yeah! , attack the personality when.......

Ubenedictus:
i already told u before in d other thread, catholic encyclopedia is not an authoritative catholic source, wat is written there is d opinion of a writter which after futher studies i am free to disagree with.

If you are wise, you wont disagree with it. But isn't this encyclopedia your official publication? How can your encyclopedia publish what your church doesnt believe? except the disagreement is from you alone.

italo:
You have no proof of the bold.

I have proof that shepherds tend their sheep in the fields in winters that are even far colder than that of Bethlehem.

Here are pictures.

And did your bible talk about snow when he was born?

Give us the name of the chapter

Below is the first picture that you posted

Now right click with your mouse on your own picture and when the white window open just left click with your mouse on search Google for this image. Now you have as a result the original image of Shepherds in Iran

Shepherds moving their sheeps, between Khoy and Pasak-e Sofla, north-western Iran (picture Date january 2008 )

Source: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shepherds_iran.jpg

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1985602_shepherdsiran_jpeg13c7a83102f80e39ccac60140e840ab9

Horus:
And your bible talk about snow when he was born?

Give us the name of the chapter

Below is the first picture that you posted

Now right click with your mouse on your own picture and when the white window open just left click with your mouse on search Google for this image. Now you have as a result the original image of Shepherds in Iran

Shepherds moving their sheeps, between Khoy and Pasak-e Sofla, north-western Iran (picture Date january 2008 )

Source: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shepherds_iran.jpg

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1985602_shepherdsiran_jpeg13c7a83102f80e39ccac60140e840ab9

Ok Bro,thanks for d info, thought that was somfin Wong with the pic . Was right when I said the shepherds where moving the sheep for a reason .
Though I dnt support the idea of using the shepherds being in the field as a major basis for believing jesus was not born in Dec .

he was actually born on 17th August

JMAN05:
If you are wise, you wont disagree with it. But isn't this encyclopedia your official publication? How can your encyclopedia publish what your church doesnt believe? except the disagreement is from you alone.

horus, was the date of Christ birth set on the 25th of december in the 15th century by a pope who later became an emperor?

Yes or no will do.