₦airaland Forum

[quote author=JMAN05 post=37357647][/quote]JMAN05, you could not have said it better! Frankly I was tired of explaining and explaining... Thanks a ton!

I think say you abandon me sha, didn't know you went for more ammo...

babafemi1000:
Hehehe! That's so funny. It shouldn't be the case. Speaking in tongues is given by the spirit when he wills it and cannot, I repeat, cannot be summoned by the vessel through whom he utters groanings or tongues or whatnot.

It's good to speak in tongues, but if you don't, don't let anyone make you feel less of a saint than you are. If you want it, you could pray to God to give you the gift. That's why paul advised that we "desire" earnestly some gifts...

Or. I for talk whether person wey no speak in tongues no be spirit-filled.

(1Cor 14:31) For everyone can prophesy in turn, so that everyone can be instructed and everyone can be encouraged.

(1Cor 14:32) The spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets,

Now some may use this to support speaking in tongues at will. It's erroneous.

First, it's the "spirits of the prophets", not the "Spirit of God".

It does not mean they can initiate prophecy at will. It means that they can choose not to reveal the prophecy that the holy spirit has initiated through them. They are in control of letting the prophecy out. The same applies to tongues and other spiritual gifts. One cannot just decide to speak in tongues at will if the holy spirit hasn't initiated it.

The holy ghost must initiate it, not the vessel. Prophets of old could not just prophesy at will. It was God who initiated it.

"And the word of the lord came unto elijah, or jeremiah, or isaiah, etc."

So it is with tongues. No one in the bible could just speak in tongues like that oo..

IdeeEsperanza:
Or. I for talk whether person wey no speak in tongues no be spirit-filled.

It pays to study the word and yearn for understanding. The bereans in the bible were commended for their efforts in searching the scriptures to see whether what paul preached were true.

We ought to do the same, not accept what someone has preached at face value without seeking out the truth for ourselves.

nope. lol

babafemi1000:
JMAN05, you could not have said it better! Frankly I was tired of explaining and explaining... Thanks a ton!

I think say you abandon me sha, didn't know you went for more ammo...

Tongue is of two operation as *A gift(not for all believer) and *A praying language(for all believer)

Great0:
Tongue is of two operation as
*A gift(not for all believer) and
*A praying language(for all believer)

Tongues is tongues. You can either use to edify the body of christ, if there's an interpreter, or you can use it in prayer to God. Whichever the case, never forget that it's the holy spirit who gives/initiates utterance.

starlingslimnet:
I think there is no point in pursuing this with you.....since you can't see you are saying the same thing. To be baptized is to receive the Holy Spirit Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should be baptized,which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"

This is after they have been baptized because of their believe in Christ. Apostle Peter said "They receive" meaning Being Baptized is Receiving the Holy Spirit.

The thing is I don't like to quote Scripture upon Scriptures cos it's not necessary to Teach the Truth. See for yourself you have made your own distinction between Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Receiving the Spirit of which the Bible made no distinction cos they are one thing.

What I can say to you is "Go and study"

Salvation is a process. One may not necessarily pass through it sequentially as in the case you cited, but for you to be stable in faith it is crucial you cover all the process stages.
Giving your life to Christ is a stage in the process, getting baptised with water another, getting baptised with holy Ghost another and so on. All stages are crucial for the purpose of ensuring that we grow, stay and be stable in faith.
Two example comes in handy here: the thief at the right hand of Jesus made it to heaven at the level of regeneration only. But because he died immediately after that stage he did not need other advanced stages in the process of salvation.
Also the Ethiopia eunuch in act ch 8 was baptised by philip and left but nothing was heard about him again. Most likely he deviate later because of no follow up to complete the process.
If you omit or fail to aspire to complete salvation process it shall become a weakness for you which the enemy can you to steal your faith from you.
May the Holy Spirit continue to teach us. Amen

babafemi1000:
Tongues is tongues. You can either use to edify the body of christ, if there's an interpreter, or you can use it in prayer to God. Whichever the case, never forget that it's the holy spirit who gives/initiates utterance.

Yes the Holy Spirit gives the utterance, but we act on faith. It is not by feelings, experiences or having goose bumps all over you. It gives room to flesh. The Holy Spirit is in you already...The just shall live by faith.

waldigit:
Salvation is a process. One may not necessarily pass through it sequentially as in the case you cited, but for you to be stable in faith it is crucial you cover all the process stages.
Giving your life to Christ is a stage in the process, getting baptised with water another, getting baptised with holy Ghost another and so on. All stages are crucial for the purpose of ensuring that we grow, stay and be stable in faith.
Two example comes in handy here: the thief at the right hand of Jesus made it to heaven at the level of regeneration only. But because he died immediately after that stage he did not need other advanced stages in the process of salvation.
Also the Ethiopia eunuch in act ch 8 was baptised by philip and left but nothing was heard about him again. Most likely he deviate later because of no follow up to complete the process.
If you omit or fail to aspire to complete salvation process it shall become a weakness for you which the enemy can you to steal your faith from you.
May the Holy Spirit continue to teach us. Amen

The ethiopian eunuch did not deviate. History records the regions of ethiopia was on fire because of his evangelism. He was the catalyst God used to reach that gentile nation. The Holy Spirit wouldn't have instructed philip to join his chariots if it were not so. God doesn't operate in guesses, He operates by the predeterminate counsel of His will.

ABDULADINO:
Yes the Holy Spirit gives the utterance, but we act on faith. It is not by feelings, experiences or having goose bumps all over you. It gives room to flesh. The Holy Spirit is in you already...The just shall live by faith.

You're right abduladino.

I have not said anything to the contrary and have maintained a particular stance since the inception of this thread.

Note though, that no matter how much faith you have/ exhibit, if God doesn't move you, you can't use faith to move yourself.

babafemi1000:
You're right abduladino.

I have not said anything to the contrary and have maintained a particular stance since the inception of this thread.

Note though, that no matter how much faith you have/ exhibit, if God doesn't move you, you can't use faith to move yourself.

You can believe God to move you by moving... A good example is the cripple in lystra who had faith to be healed. He acted when Paul called out to Him, God had to move because he obeyed Paul and moved.

waldigit:
Salvation is a process. One may not necessarily pass through it sequentially as in the case you cited, but for you to be stable in faith it is crucial you cover all the process stages.
Giving your life to Christ is a stage in the process, getting baptised with water another, getting baptised with holy Ghost another and so on. All stages are crucial for the purpose of ensuring that we grow, stay and be stable in faith.
Two example comes in handy here: the thief at the right hand of Jesus made it to heaven at the level of regeneration only. But because he died immediately after that stage he did not need other advanced stages in the process of salvation.
Also the Ethiopia eunuch in act ch 8 was baptised by philip and left but nothing was heard about him again. Most likely he deviate later because of no follow up to complete the process.
If you omit or fail to aspire to complete salvation process it shall become a weakness for you which the enemy can you to steal your faith from you.
May the Holy Spirit continue to teach us. Amen

What you wrote up there is crap.

ABDULADINO:
You can believe God to move you by moving... A good example is the cripple in lystra who had faith to be healed. He acted when Paul called out to Him, God had to move because he obeyed Paul and moved.

You're right again.

But God moves first. He initiated it. Then you show your faith in him by moving. In the example you gave above, God moved first (through paul), then the cripple acted/moved based on faith.

God is not under any obligation to back one up if they move without consulting him. So saying "God just had to move" doesn't hold sway.

starlingslimnet:
What you wrote up there is crap.

Starlingslimnet, let's preach the truth and correct in love, without drawing battle lines with our manners of speech.

Sometimes people defend what they know and they don't mean any harm. It's what they know.

I've tried to correct here on this thread without rubbing the truth in people's faces.

Kind regards.

babafemi1000:
Starlingslimnet, let's preach the truth and correct in love, without drawing battle lines with our manners of speech.

Sometimes people defend what they know and they don't mean any harm. It's what they know.

I've tried to correct here on this thread without rubbing the truth in people's faces.

Kind regards.

Sorry brother am just tired of Teaching these people the Truth they think they know.

Guess I will just leave them to their naveity than trying to explain things anylonger afterall they do not sin if they speak in tongues.

starlingslimnet:
Sorry brother am just tired of Teaching these people the Truth they think they know.

It's alright. At some point I confess I was getting overwhelmed. But then in the nick of time, this guy, jman05, came to my aid, and all of a sudden I had much to say again. Bless all you guys who have supported me on this thread.

Some pastor said something once. "We have a love for God and his truth, but we don't have a love for God's people". It's easy to forget that "these" people are saints when they come up against you.

babafemi1000:
You're right again.

But God moves first. He initiated it. Then you show your faith in him by moving. In the example you gave above, God moved first (through paul), then the cripple acted/moved based on faith.

God is not under any obligation to back one up if they move without consulting him. So saying "God just had to move" doesn't hold sway.

My point is i don't have to feel a stirring to pray in the Spirit before i burst forth in tongues...am talking about after you have received the gift..Just like Paul emphasised to pray without ceasing .you can't pray without ceasing using english vocabulary or native language.

But you can with tongues, it refreshes, builds up,edifies and you don't get tired easily..i don't have to wait for the Spirit to move me to pray..I move the Spirit. I may start in the flesh but definitely i will end up in the Spirit.

ABDULADINO:
My point is i don't have to feel a stirring to pray in the Spirit before i burst forth in tongues...am talking about after you have received the gift..Just like Paul emphasised to pray without ceasing .you can't pray without ceasing using english vocabulary or native language.

But you can with tongues, it refreshes, builds up,edifies and you don't get tired easily..i don't have to wait for the Spirit to move me to pray..I move the Spirit. I may start in the flesh but definitely i will end up in the Spirit.

Here is where you are wrong. No man can initiate or activate the moving of the spirit. We are to be subject to him and not he us.

If you initiate it, beware, it is not from God.

Throughout scriptures, the lord has moved in clear patterns, whenever he wanted to do something through a man.

"And the word of the lord came to jeremiah, isaiah, etc". "The Holy Ghost came upon so and so.., etc". That's how God moves or chose to move.

If you start on your own, then I guarantee you that it's not the Holy Ghost.

The prophets of old had to wait for God to move, they never for once thought they could just prophesy anytime they felt like it. Same applies to us and to various gifts.

Jeremiah 42: 7 And after ten days, the word of the lord came unto jeremiah. He waited.

2 Peter 1: 20-21 But holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost..

This is what God had to say concerning those who tried to prophesy before receiving word from him:

Jeremiah 14: 14 The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart

ABDULADINO:
The ethiopian eunuch did not deviate. History records the regions of ethiopia was on fire because of his evangelism. He was the catalyst God used to reach that gentile nation. The Holy Spirit wouldn't have instructed philip to join his chariots if it were not so. God doesn't operate in guesses, He operates by the predeterminate counsel of His will.

First, I don't know the source of your history so I can say anything about its credibility, but then I have this to say: how come it then took so long for the gospel to get to us here in southern hemisphere?
Second, you. Said he didn't deviate because the Holy Spirit chose him, so then Judas, Demas, Ananiaj and Saphirer etc were not chosen by Holy Spirit, beloved let us always wait on Holy Spirit to lead before jump on to conclusion on spiritual matters. May God Help us

sportsmaster:
read 1cor 14:2:-
he who speaks in tongues speaks not unto men but unto God for no man understands him.howbeit in the Spirit he speaks mysteries

There is more than one manifestation in the scriptures that is translated as "speaking in tongues".

On the day of Pentecost, the followers of Christ that were "breathed on" by the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues, "actual languages". The book of Acts says that Jews from the diaspora that had come to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast [and proselytes, and traders, and some who lived there] all heard the preaching of the good news of the kingdom "each in his own language". It was a mechanism to spread the good news.

On the other hand, later in 1 Corinthians 12-14, we begin to see that in the gathering of the early Christians, some are led to speak in tongues that most people present did not understand and hence needed translation for. The way this "tongue" in Corinthians is described seems to give the idea that it is different from what happened in Acts, on Pentecost day. For example, saying that "..he does not speak to men but to God". However, it may also be that we are coloring our understand and interpretation by our preconceptions. One possible view is that they had this miraculous ability to speak a new language and by the power of God, may prophesy in it while in the meetings, and either they or someone else that understands it will then have to translate. The apostle Paul advised that if there were no one to translate, then such ones should be quiet. Another view is that this was a new wave of "tongues" that was given specifically as a prayer language. There could be further views. The truth is that we only have what the scriptures says to go by. And when the information is a bit scanty, we can only fall back to best guesses sometimes. And this is especially so when we don't understand Greek, or Aramaic, or Hebrew and so depend on a translation. Basing one's theology on the interpretation based on a single translation is .... well, let's say if we can't learn the original language, we need to use many bible translations and concordances, etc, so that we begin to get a clearer idea of what the passage or word meant IN THE ORIGINAL.

There are many topics in Christianity that the whole body of Christ on earth do not understand the same way. Some may be important and some may not be. How important is speaking in tongues today? In other words, can a person be saved, sanctified, live a life that pleases God and Christ and die in God's favor without having the ability to speak in tongues [whichever type of tongue one believes is correct]? Will a person miss God's purpose for him/her if there is no speaking in tongues? Let's take the new tongues that is supposed to build the individual and not the church. Can the person be built spiritually without the speaking in a language or making sounds he/she does not understand? I think so. That's why even though I don't speak in tongues (the Lord has given me other gifts), I am open to those who do. And those that do speak in tongues are (or should be) open to those of us who don't.

babafemi1000:
Here is where you are wrong. No man can initiate or activate the moving of the spirit. We are to be subject to him and not he us.

If you initiate it, beware, it is not from God.

Throughout scriptures, the lord has moved in clear patterns, whenever he wanted to do something through a man.

"And the word of the lord came to jeremiah, isaiah, etc". "The Holy Ghost came upon so and so.., etc". That's how God moves or chose to move.

If you start on your own, then I guarantee you that it's not the Holy Ghost.

The prophets of old had to wait for God to move, they never for once thought they could just prophesy anytime they felt like it. Same applies to us and to various gifts.

Jeremiah 42: 7 And after ten days, the word of the lord came unto jeremiah. He waited.

2 Peter 1: 20-21 But holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost..

This is what God had to say concerning those who tried to prophesy before receiving word from him:

Jeremiah 14: 14 The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart

Clear distinction between prayer and prophesy. You are deviating. I was talking about PRAYER. Believers are encouraged to pray without ceasing( 1 thess 5:7).

I take this verse literally..Pls do tell..how do you pray non stop?

waldigit:
First, I don't know the source of your history so I can say anything about its credibility, but then I have this to say: how come it then took so long for the gospel to get to us here in southern hemisphere?
Second, you. Said he didn't deviate because the Holy Spirit chose him, so then Judas, Demas, Ananiaj and Saphirer etc were not chosen by Holy Spirit, beloved let us always wait on Holy Spirit to lead before jump on to conclusion on spiritual matters. May God Help us

Then as a bible student you need to update yourself in church history. Paul was beheaded by Nero,Christians were fed to the lions..Peter was hung upside down.. John was thrown in a boiling pot of oil....all these are FACTS not recorded in scriptures but that is not to say they never happened.

ABDULADINO:
Clear distinction between prayer and prophesy. You are deviating. I was talking about PRAYER.

Believers are encouraged to pray without ceasing( 1 thess 5:7)..
I take this verse literally..Pls do tell..how do you pray non stop?

1) No I'm not deviating. I'm right on track.

1 Cor 14: 26-33

Paul is laying down general guidelines for the use of gifts, not just prophecy. That he chose to use prophecy to make his point does not mean all other gifts are excluded. It's an analogy.

Maybe because prophecy was a well known gift from God in the old testament days, and they were used to it. It may have been easier to use it as reference.

In verse 33, he ends by saying "for our God is not a God of confusion but of peace". That's the whole point of chapters 12-14 in 1 Corinthians.

2) Pray without ceasing. Yes. Does it mean pray
24/7? No. Did Jesus pray 24/7? Did paul? Did peter? Did john? Hell to the no!

It means pray continually. "Continually" here means "every now and then"

babafemi1000:
1) No I'm not deviating. I'm right on track.

1 Cor 14: 26-33

Paul is laying down general guidelines for the use of gifts, not just prophecy. That he chose to use prophecy to make his point does not mean all other gifts are excluded. It's an analogy.

Prophecy is public ( for the church to be edified). Prayer is private (for you to be edified)..Clear distinctions. My prayer in my privacy doesn't cause confusion in the church nor does it disturb anyone...Jesus always goes to a solitary place to pray all night.

2) Pray without ceasing. Yes. Does it mean pray 24/7? No. Did Jesus pray 24/7? Did paul? Did peter? Did john? Hell to the no!

It means pray continually. "Continually" here means "every now and then"

Your opinion. Praying without ceasing means exactly what it said..KJV.

Except you have the greek version of what Paul meant.

ABDULADINO:
Prophecy is public ( for the church to be edified). Prayer is private (for you to be edified)..Clear distinctions. My prayer in my privacy doesn't cause confusion in the church nor does it disturb anyone...Jesus always goes to a solitary place to pray all night.

Your opinion. Praying without ceasing means exactly what it said..KJV.

Except you have the greek version of what Paul meant.

1) We're talking about speaking/praying in tongues here, whether in private prayer or public. That's what led us here. You're the one deviating or rather, being adamant. I said you cannot move the holy ghost by using faith to activate tongues. Your faith comes handy when he has willed it.

2) I thank God for different bible versions. I'm not afraid to use them. I have the Holy Ghost to help me sort out the wrong from the right and he does not disappoint. They help with certain explanations of verses in the KJV.

1 Thessalonians 5 :16-18 Rejoice always, Pray continually, this is God's will for you in christ Jesus.(NIV)

This is where I stop responding to you. I pray you have the courage to accept the truth.

I am still on point..Praying in the Spirit without ceasing is praying in an "unknown" tongue.

babafemi1000:
1) We're talking about speaking/praying in tongues here, whether in private prayer or public. That's what led us here. You're the one deviating or rather, being adamant. I said you cannot move the holy ghost by using faith to activate tongues. Your faith comes handy when he has willed it.

2) I thank God for different bible versions. I'm not afraid to use them. I have the Holy Ghost to help me sort out the wrong from the right and he does not disappoint. They help with certain explanations of verses in the KJV.

1 Thessalonians 5 :16-18 Rejoice always, Pray continually, this is God's will for you in christ Jesus.(NIV)

This is where I stop responding to you. I pray you have the courage to accept the truth.

Any translation you use still means a non stop life of prayer...The spirit is always willing to pray..it is the flesh that is weak...So i have to move myself to pray..it involves an active participation of myself with the Holy Spirit. Shalom.

ABDULADINO:
I am still on point..Praying in the Spirit without ceasing is praying in an "unknown" tongue. Any translation you use still means a non stop life of prayer...The spirit is always willing to pray..it is the flesh that is weak...So i have to move myself to pray..it involves an active participation of myself with the Holy Spirit. Shalom.

I understand you. You want to pray. And in tongues too. That's commendable. I like that you used "active participation". It is indeed an active participation.

I also want to pray. And in tongues too. But it's important to get it right.

Now, I know from scriptures that no one (including yourself) can cause the holy spirit to move or fill them with any tongue or gift. They have to walk in the spirit and then wait on the Holy Ghost. This doesn't mean always praying in tongues. It means continually bearing fruits of the spirit. (Love, joy, peace, etc.)

Don't be adamant. Learn from scriptures and not personal experiences.

babafemi1000:
I understand you. You want to pray. And in tongues too. That's commendable. I like that you used "active participation". It's is indeed an active participation.

I also want to pray. And in tongues too. But it's important to get it right.

Now, I know from scriptures that no one (including yourself) can cause the holy spirit to move or fill them with any tongue or gift. They have to walk in the spirit and then wait on the Holy Ghost. This doesn't mean always praying in tongues. It means continually bearing fruits of the spirit. (Love, joy, peace, etc.)

Don't be adamant. Learn from scriptures and not personal experiences.

Lol, why mix it up. I am actually speaking from scriptures not experiences. The baptism of the Holy Spirit at new birth with "tongues" as evidence is different from divers gifts of tongues..I also flow in divers tongues but not often in meetings as the Spirit wills. That tongue is different from the devotional tongue i use in my closet..i thot other posters have shown you scriptures and explained it to you by now. You sir! Are the one adamant.
Also the fruit of the Spirit is not the same as the gifts of the Spirit. The corinthians came behind in no gifts yet they lack the fruit of the Spirit hence Paul epistle to correct their irregularities.
The fruit of the Spirit IS......not ARE ( Galatians 5:22).

ABDULADINO:
Lol, why mix it up. I am actually speaking from scriptures not experiences. The baptism of the Holy Spirit at new birth with "tongues" as evidence is different from divers gifts of tongues..I also flow in divers tongues but not often in meetings as the Spirit wills. That tongue is different from the devotional tongue i use in my closet..i thot other posters have shown you scriptures and explained it to you by now. You sir! Are the one adamant.
Also the fruit of the Spirit is not the same as the gifts of the Spirit. The corinthians came behind in no gifts yet they lack the fruit of the Spirit hence Paul epistle to correct their irregularities.
The fruit of the Spirit IS......not ARE ( Galatians 5:22).

Galatians 5: 22 The fruit (not fruits as I said) of the spirit is... I accept correction.

ABDULADINO:
Lol, why mix it up. I am actually speaking from scriptures not experiences. The baptism of the Holy Spirit at new birth with "tongues" as evidence is different from divers gifts of tongues..I also flow in divers tongues but not often in meetings as the Spirit wills. That tongue is different from the devotional tongue i use in my closet..i thot other posters have shown you scriptures and explained it to you by now. You sir! Are the one adamant.
Also the fruit of the Spirit is not the same as the gifts of the Spirit. The corinthians came behind in no gifts yet they lack the fruit of the Spirit hence Paul epistle to correct their irregularities.
The fruit of the Spirit IS......not ARE ( Galatians 5:22).

You are allowed to remain ignorant. Keep "speaking in tongues", entertaining yourself and getting emotionally high, thinking the holy spirit is groaning for you.

Mind you, Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered

If it cannot be uttered, then what are you guys saying when you speak in tongues in so called private prayer?

babafemi1000:
You are allowed to remain ignorant. Keep "speaking in tongues", entertaining yourself and getting emotionally high, thinking the holy spirit is groaning for you.

Mind you, Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered

If it cannot be uttered, then what are you guys saying when you speak in tongues in so called private prayer?

Lol, i am not ignorant concerning spiritual gifts. ( 1 cor 12:1).

Try to read other translations of Romans 8:26...atleast you accused me the other time about ceasing..

The Spirit is not itself( Kjv error) but "Himself"...the greek translation in that verse said groanings which cannot be uttered in "articulate speech"... Articulate speech means your regular kind of speech.When we do not understand a particular verse in scripture we do not infer our private intepretations to it, rather we inteprete scripture with scripture to avoid error and heresy.

Compare Romans 8:26 with 1 cor14:14 AMP...."my Spirit( by the Holy Spirit within me) prays...