₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
USA did not deploy any stealth F-22 in middle east, they only have F-15, F-16, F-18 in or around that arena.

WRONG
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Jul-22/307701-stealthy-jet-ensures-other-war-fighting-aircraft-survive.ashx

patches689:
WRONG
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Jul-22/307701-stealthy-jet-ensures-other-war-fighting-aircraft-survive.ashx

Not aware, the combat videos I see are F-18. Maybe deliberately not being filmed.

agaugust:
Not aware, the videos I see are F-18. Maybe deliberately not being filmed.

Of course not

They wont even say WHERE the F22's are based

Can you imagine if it was widely publicised? Every jihadist in the region would be gunning to hit the base that housed the most powerfull symbol of American power


There is pretty epic video of a F22 doing an aerial refuel over baghdad at night just google "aerial refueling of an f22 supporting isl strikes"

patches689:
Who cares if its a fair fight??

You said:


You think the Americans would send F15's?

It would be F-22's and Super-Hornets

First thing the Su30's would know is when they detect AIM-120D launches coming out of no-where and all their avionics freaking out because they are being jammed

Su-30 SM also has it's own jammers, nobody has monopoly of jamming others, that's one thing you Southies never realize about war, nobody has monopoly of doing things. 3rd world Vietnamese pilots shot down American pilots in Vietnam war. Everybody dies in war.

agaugust:
Su-30 SM also has it's own jammers, nobody has monopoly of jamming others, that's one thing you Southies never realize about war, nobody has monopoly of doing things. 3rd world Vietnamese pilots shot down American pilots in Vietnam war. Everybody dies in war.

You cant jam what you do not know is there

Veitnamese pilots were flying cutting edge soviet jets

patches689:
You cant jam what you do not know is there

Veitnamese pilots were flying cutting edge soviet jets

Vietnam was best of USA vs best of Russia. Nothing cutting edge in a 1970s MiG-21, the opponent was F-4 Phantom best of the USA, yet the 3rd world pilots shot down Yankee jets.

F-22 is not invisible to the Su-30 IRST that uses thermal vision and TV camera to detect stealth aircraft at 90 km.

Stealth jets are 100% visible to TV camera.

The

agaugust:
Vietnam was best of USA vs best of Russia. Nothing cutting edge in a 1970s MiG-21, the opponent was F-4 Phantom best of the USA, yet the 3rd world pilots shot down Yankee jets.

F-22 is not invisible to the Su-30 IRST that uses thermal vision and TV camera to detect stealth aircraft at 90 km.

Stealth jets are 100% visible to TV camera.

Jets of the same generation - go look up how many jets the americans lost in air-to-air combat and not to SAM's

90km? O thats cute... American BVRM have a range of, what, 150-190 km?

What coverage does the IRST have?

F22's will pick when the fight starts, where the fight starts and how the fight starts.

Su30 stands literally no chance

patches689:
The


Jets of the same generation - go look up how many jets the americans lost in air-to-air combat and not to SAM's

90km? O thats cute... American BVRM have a range of, what, 150-190 km?

What coverage does the IRST have?

F22's will pick when the fight starts, where the fight starts and how the fight starts.

Su30 stands literally no chance

America won't tell you all truth about air to air losses in any war. They will say it was mostly ground fire, but ask pilots of the enemy air force, they claim shooting down the Yankees air to air many times. All ends in dispute of numbers like India Vs Pakistan air war.

IRST coverage searches front and rear hemispheres.

90 km away an Su-30 has a good chance to escape a missile by counter measures. The American missiles are not fired in a no escape zone, 90 km is one city to another city kinda distance, Russian pilots are not 3rd world pilots like Iraqis, they have excellent BVR combat training, plus the Russian Novator BVR missile is said to be a total no escape missile with 200 km range.

F-22 will not pick when fight starts, the Russians claim the Su-35 radar can detect stealth jets and they have stealth jets in Russia to test and prove that claim. If USA uses F-22, I guess Russia will send in Su-35.

"The X-band multimode phased array Irbis-E radar is supplied by Tikhomirov Scientific-Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP), based in Zhukovsky. Irbis-E is a high-performance radar designed for the Su-35 aircraft.

The radar can detect low-observable and stealth aircraft, unmanned air vehicles and missiles with a radar cross section of 0.01m² at ranges to 90km. Radar modes include air-to-air, air-to-ground, air-to-sea, mapping, Doppler beam and synthetic aperture radar modes. It can detect and track up to 30 airborne targets with a radar cross section (RCS) of 3m² at ranges of 400km using track-while-scan mode."

People rate the Americans higher than the Americans rate themselves, if the USA is sure of air superiority over Russia, they would have kicked Russia out of Ukraine since a Russian Buk mis.sile sh.ot down a civ.ilian airliner ki.illing hundreds of innocent civilians.

agaugust:
Russia sent the best and newest Su-30 SM to Syria, they didn't send the older MK variant.
Su-30 has its own EW / ECM pod and IRST, even if it's 400 km range PESA radar is jammed the 90 km range IRST thermal vision and TV camera cannot be jammed. Russia has new Novator K 100 missile superior to any rival on earth.
Bros the fight go dey hot, both Su-30 and F-15 have 100% success rate in combat records. Na Dem show me I wan sidon dey look like say Rambo Vs Jackie Chan

The F-15 will jam the SU-30 bar PESA radar and shoot it down with its advanced AIM-120 BVR missile,forget the IRST,what will a 90km thermal radar/tv camera do?,the SU-30SM's laser-guided missiles will become useless.
There is simply no evidence that Russia gave Syria its new K 100 missile,even if the SU-30SM are equipped with K-100s,testing of the new AIM-120D 180km variant can be accelerated and then integrated into the F-15E.
In real combat,the SU-30SM cannot match the F-15E,talkless of F-18 and F-22.

EVarn:
The F-15 will jam the SU-30 bar PESA radar and shoot it down with its advanced AIM-120 BVR missile,forget the IRST,what will a 90km thermal radar/tv camera do?,the SU-30SM's laser-guided missiles will become useless.
There is simply no evidence that Russia gave Syria its new K 100 missile,even if the SU-30SM are equipped with K-100s,testing of the new AIM-120D 180km variant can be accelerated and then integrated into the F-15E.
In real combat,the SU-30SM cannot match the F-15E,talkless of F-18 and F-22.

American jets are jamming nothing on Su-30, Russia has it's own ECM pod, both countries have jammers and EW stuff, none has proved better than the other in any battle. We can only speculate based on what we expect from each side.

"Description: The SAP-14 is an advanced jamming pod intended for heavy strike fighters such as Russian Air Force Sukhoi Su-30MK, and Su-32/34 and Indian Air Force Su-30MKI. Its primary mission is to jam advanced air defenses during ground attack missions imitating electronic signatures of various aircraft while generating false targets within enemy sensors. The SAP-14 covers NATO surface-to-air and air-to-air threats in the D-F bands and is deployed in one large, centerline pod. Installed on a single aircraft along with two SAP-518 jamming pods is considered similar to the United States ALQ-99 jamming system installed on the EA-6B Prowler and EA-18G Growler electronic attack aircraft. The electronic warfare system has been developed and manufactured by the Kaluzhsky Scientific Research Radio-Technical Institute (KNIRTI). Its existence was revealed at the MAKS 2009 airshow."

@agaugust,the AIM-54(retired) has a range of about 190-200km,the new variant AIM-120D also has a range of about 180-200km.So why would you call K-100{also with about 200km range,though it could be significantly lesser} superior to any rival on earth"?

EVarn:
@agaugust,the AIM-54(retired) has a range of about 190-200km,the new variant AIM-120D also has a range of about 180-200km.So why would you call K-100{also with about 200km range,though it could be significantly lesser} superior to any rival on earth"?

If we even ignore K-100 which is the longest ranged at 200 km beating the American rival AIM-120D that has 72 km range,

1. America is afraid of even the older Russian K-77 and rate it as 100% no escape missile 100 km range.

http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/new-russian-air-to-air-missiles-will-field-almost-perfect-accuracy/

2. America is afraid of Russian jammers

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/12/04/dont-panic-but-pentagon-now-things-russia-can-jam-american-air-to-air-missiles/

.

@agaugust,The F15 still features superior EW system,how many simultaneous frequency bands can the SAP-14 jam?,moreover the SAP-14 has only been sold to one other country outside Russia,and its definitely not Syria.
Let me also remind you that the F-15 exihibits a powerful "home on jammer" that can counter-jam almost all known advanced jammers.

patches689:
The


90km? O thats cute... American BVRM have a range of, what, 150-190 km?

What coverage does the IRST have?

Su30 stands literally no chance

The best American BVR missile has range of only 72 km, meaning the F-22 has to be about 62 km close to the Su-30 before missile launch, but the Su-30 has IRST with range 90 km, so the F-22 stealth is rendered useless because of it's 72 km missile that forces it into the IRST detection range and kill zone no escape zone of the Su-30 K-77 missiles that have 100 km range with 100% kill probability of 100 km distance.

American F-22 and F-35 stealth pilots already cry for this weakness to be addressed, Yankee knows his weaknesses vs Russian area of strength, but people rate America above the level America rates itself vs Russia.

http://defensetech.org/2014/02/18/test-pilot-calls-for-longer-range-aim-120/

Never mind the fact that Russia claims it has radar on Su-35 to detect F-22 stealth aircraft at long range.

Who knows the oga? Nobody knows.

agaugust:
If we even ignore K-100 which is the longest ranged at 200 km beating the American rival AIM-120D that has 72 km range,
1. America is afraid of even the older Russian K-77 and rate it as 100% no escape missile 100 km range.
http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/new-russian-air-to-air-missiles-will-field-almost-perfect-accuracy/
2. America is afraid of Russian jammers
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/12/04/dont-panic-but-pentagon-now-things-russia-can-jam-american-air-to-air-missiles/
.

AIM-120D is 72km?,I would like you to enlighten me on where you got your permutations from.
How is America "afraid" of BVRs and jammers it has never encountered?
The USAF has ALQ-99 ECM growlers,the most superior known jammers in the world.

EVarn:
AIM-120D is 72km? I would like you to enlighten me on where you got your permutations from.
How is America "afraid" of BVRs and jammers it has never encountered?.

Wikipedia people over-rated Americas missile, the range is inferior to Russian rivals

http://www.deagel.com/Air-to-Air-Missiles/AIM-120D-AMRAAM_a001164006.aspx

American pilots already fear this missile inferiority weakening their stealth jets in combat, they have to fly into Russian missile and IRST range before the F-22 can fire any thing called missile, but Russia has a 100 km range no escape missile !

http://defensetech.org/2014/02/18/test-pilot-calls-for-longer-range-aim-120/

The battle of Syria will be hot for USA and Russia, who is the oga? America is over-rated
.

EVarn:
The USAF has ALQ-99 ECM growlers,the most superior known jammers in the world.

The best American jammers have bad performance that people do not hear about.

"The poor reliability of the ALQ-99 jammer pod and frequent failures of the Built In Test (BIT) have caused crew to fly missions with undetected faults. The ALQ-99 has also interfered with the aircraft's AESA radar."

http://catch4all.com/positive/2014/Boeing/EA_18G/

Russian jammer on Su-30 is rated equal to the American jammer you just mentioned, and the Russian jammer is not reported to have faults like the Yankee jammer :

The SAP-14 is an advanced jamming pod intended for heavy strike fighters such as Russian Air Force Sukhoi Su-30MK, and Su-32/34 and Indian Air Force Su-30MKI. Its primary mission is to jam advanced air defenses during ground attack missions imitating electronic signatures of various aircraft while generating false targets within enemy sensors.

The SAP-14 covers NATO surface-to-air and air-to-air threats in the D-F bands and is deployed in one large, centerline pod. Installed on a single aircraft along with two SAP-518 jamming pods is considered similar to the United States ALQ-99 jamming system installed on the EA-6B Prowler and EA-18G Growler electronic attack aircraft. The electronic warfare system has been developed and manufactured by the Kaluzhsky Scientific Research Radio-Technical Institute (KNIRTI). Its existence was revealed at the MAKS 2009 airshow.

http://www.deagel.com/Aircraft-Protection-Systems/SAP-14_a002474001.aspx

EVarn:
How is America "afraid" of BVRs and jammers it has never encountered?

If America is not afraid of Russia, they would have kicked Russian azz out of Ukraine like they did to Serbia/Yugoslavia in Bosnian war.

When America fears you, they report you to United Nations for economic sanctions and watch you continue misbehaving for 20 years

agaugust:
Wikipedia people over-rated Americas missile, the range is inferior to Russian rivals
http://www.deagel.com/Air-to-Air-Missiles/AIM-120D-AMRAAM_a001164006.aspx
American pilots already fear this missile inferiority weakening their stealth jets in combat, they have to fly into Russian missile and IRST range before the F-22 can fire any thing called missile, but Russia has a 100 km range no escape missile !
http://defensetech.org/2014/02/18/test-pilot-calls-for-longer-range-aim-120/
The battle of Syria will be hot for USA and Russia, who is the oga?

The second source you brought clearly states that the new AIM-120D version has a range of 180km,perhaps you should read it with opened eyes.
The pilots are requesting for more AIM-120 range to match chinese new BVR technology,not because they are afraid of the mysterious K-100 that could end up "breaking down" and careening into the crowd during a victory parade or airshow.
Why are you even comparing SU-30 with raptors?

agaugust:
America won't tell you all truth about air to air losses in any war. They will say it was mostly ground fire, but ask pilots of the enemy air force, they claim shooting down the Yankees air to air many times. All ends in dispute of numbers like India Vs Pakistan air war.

IRST coverage searches front and rear hemispheres.

90 km away an Su-30 has a good chance to escape a missile by counter measures. The American missiles are not fired in a no escape zone, 90 km is one city to another city kinda distance, Russian pilots are not 3rd world pilots like Iraqis, they have excellent BVR combat training, plus the Russian Novator BVR missile is said to be a total no escape missile with 200 km range.

F-22 will not pick when fight starts, the Russians claim the Su-35 radar can detect stealth jets and they have stealth jets in Russia to test and prove that claim. If USA uses F-22, I guess Russia will send in Su-35.

"The X-band multimode phased array Irbis-E radar is supplied by Tikhomirov Scientific-Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP), based in Zhukovsky. Irbis-E is a high-performance radar designed for the Su-35 aircraft.

The radar can detect low-observable and stealth aircraft, unmanned air vehicles and missiles with a radar cross section of 0.01m² at ranges to 90km. Radar modes include air-to-air, air-to-ground, air-to-sea, mapping, Doppler beam and synthetic aperture radar modes. It can detect and track up to 30 airborne targets with a radar cross section (RCS) of 3m² at ranges of 400km using track-while-scan mode."

People rate the Americans higher than the Americans rate themselves, if the USA is sure of air superiority over Russia, they would have kicked Russia out of Ukraine since a Russian Buk mis.sile sh.ot down a civ.ilian airliner ki.illing hundreds of innocent civilians.

Ok buddy

You can keep trying to convince us (and yourself) that a 4.5 gen multi-role fighter stands a chance against a 5th gen air-superiority fighter

F22's will detect first

F22's will fire first

And they will do this in a time, place and situation of their choosing.

You yourself have said it would be:

agaugust:
not a fair fight.

If you want to argue for the sake of arguing, at least make a good argument

EVarn:
The second source you brought clearly states that the new AIM-120D version has a range of 180km,perhaps you should read it with opened eyes.

He too got his 180 km from Wikipedia. LOL

AIM-120 series are produced as medium range missiles NOT long range missile.

See another source :

The Raytheon AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile
Primary Function: Air-to-air tactical missile
Prime Contractor: Raytheon Co.
Propulsion: Orbital ATK solid-propellant rocket motor; or NAMMO Raufoss solid-propellant rocket motor
Length: 143.9 in (3.66 m)
Diameter: 7 in (17.78 cm)
Wingspan: 20.7 in (52.58 cm)
Weight: 335 lbs (150.75 kg)
Speed: Supersonic (Mach 4)
Range: 26-39 nm/30-45 miles (48-72 km)
Guidance System: Active radar terminal/inertial midcourse
Warhead: High explosive blast fragmentation
AIM-120A/B: 50 pound WDU-33/B; AIM-120C5: 40 pound WDU-41/B
Platforms: AV-8B Harrier II; F-22 Raptor;
F-15 Eagle/F-15E Strike Eagle; F-16 Fighting Falcon
F/A-18C/D Hornet; F/A-18E/F Super Hornet; EA-18G Growler; F-35 Lightning II
Price/Unit Cost: AIM-120D: $1.098 million per All-Up Round (in FY 2015)
Deployed: September 1991
Initial Operational Capability (IOC): AIM-120D: April 2015

http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/AMRAAM.html
.

agaugust:
If America is not afraid of Russia, they would have kicked Russian azz out of Ukraine like they did to Serbia/Yugoslavia in Bosnian war.
When America fears you, they report you to United Nations for economic sanctions and watch you continue misbehaving for 20 years

America's inaction in ukraine stems from the current passive decision-making by the democrats in the white house,not due to fear of Russia,what would Russia do?.
Technically,Ukraine isnt a NATO member,if the US acts in military aid of kiev,it would look as if the US is acknowledging Ukraine as a NATO ally,which would directly contravene the NATO-Russia post-cold war accord/treaty.

agaugust:
He too got his 180 km from Wikipedia. LOL

hehehehe..I rest my case.

patches689:
Ok buddy

You can keep trying to convince us (and yourself) that a 4.5 gen multi-role fighter stands a chance against a 5th gen air-superiority fighter

F22's will detect first

F22's will fire first

And they will do this in a time, place and situation of their choosing.

You yourself have said it would be:

If you want to argue for the sake of arguing, at least make a good argument

I am sure the facts and sources I posted have shocked you and your stealth overrated F-22 raptor

Your constant mistake is that you always compare jet fighters as an aircraft, you forget that their power only lies in the weapons they carry, the stealth paint on F-22 is not a weapon dude, go look at it's short legged missile weapon

F-22 detects first but CANNOT attack first, with a 72 km range missile, he will fly into the 90 km IRST range of the Su-30 before trying to fire missile, but then the Su-30 has a 100 km missile, so he fires first at 90 km, while F-22 is waiting to close gap at 72 km.

By the time the F-22 has a chance to fire any missile, the Su-30 fired missile is already nearer to his jet so F-22 pilot will be struggling for his life to avoid death from an incoming super speed missile, and his overrated American F-22 is inside no escape zone of Russian 100% accurate missile.....overrated Yankee is dead o
.

agaugust:
The best American jammers have bad performance that people do not hear about.
"The poor reliability of the ALQ-99 jammer pod and frequent failures of the Built In Test (BIT) have caused crew to fly missions with undetected faults. The ALQ-99 has also interfered with the aircraft's AESA radar."
http://catch4all.com/positive/2014/Boeing/EA_18G/
Russian jammer on Su-30 is rated equal to the American jammer you just mentioned, and the Russian jammer is not reported to have faults like the Yankee jammer

The article said "similar to" not "equal to".
It is hasty to categorize the ALQ-99 as having bad performance,the fact that it "sometimes" interfere with the AESA probably stems from having a powerful frequency distorter that could sometimes target the collect bands of both its host and the enemy,this can be rectified by homing on selective targets.
The ALQ-99 still outclasses the SAP-14.

EVarn:
The article said "similar to" not "equal to".
It is hasty to categorize the ALQ-99 as having bad performance,the fact that it "sometimes" interfere with the AESA probably stems from having a powerful frequency distorter that could sometimes target the collect bands of both its host and the enemy,this can be rectified by homing on selective targets.

The ALQ-99 still outclasses the SAP-14.

Can you prove the bolded claim ?
.

agaugust:
He too got his 180 km from Wikipedia. LOL

AIM-120 series are produced as medium range missiles NOT long range missile.

See another source :

The Raytheon AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile
Primary Function: Air-to-air tactical missile
Prime Contractor: Raytheon Co.
Propulsion: Orbital ATK solid-propellant rocket motor; or NAMMO Raufoss solid-propellant rocket motor
Length: 143.9 in (3.66 m)
Diameter: 7 in (17.78 cm)
Wingspan: 20.7 in (52.58 cm)
Weight: 335 lbs (150.75 kg)
Speed: Supersonic (Mach 4)
Range: 26-39 nm/30-45 miles (48-72 km)
Guidance System: Active radar terminal/inertial midcourse
Warhead: High explosive blast fragmentation
AIM-120A/B: 50 pound WDU-33/B; AIM-120C5: 40 pound WDU-41/B
Platforms: AV-8B Harrier II; F-22 Raptor;
F-15 Eagle/F-15E Strike Eagle; F-16 Fighting Falcon
F/A-18C/D Hornet; F/A-18E/F Super Hornet; EA-18G Growler; F-35 Lightning II
Price/Unit Cost: AIM-120D: $1.098 million per All-Up Round (in FY 2015)
Deployed: September 1991
Initial Operational Capability (IOC): AIM-120D: April 2015

http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/AMRAAM.html
.

Look up the AIM-120D you chucklefuck

agaugust:
I am sure the facts and sources I posted have shocked you and your stealth overrated F-22 raptor

Your constant mistake is that you always compare jet fighters as an aircraft, you forget that their power only lies in the weapons they carry, the stealth paint on F-22 is not a weapon dude, go look at it's short legged missile weapon

F-22 detects first but CANNOT attack first, with a 72 km range missile, he will fly into the 90 km IRST range of the Su-30 before trying to fire missile, but then the Su-30 has a 100 km missile, so he fires first at 90 km, while F-22 is waiting to close gap at 72 km.

By the time the F-22 has a chance to fire any missile, the Su-30 fired missile is already nearer to his jet so F-22 pilot will be struggling for his life to avoid death from an incoming super speed missile, and his overrated American F-22 is inside no escape zone of Russian 100% accurate missile.....overrated Yankee is dead o
.

Blah blah blah

Answer: AIM120D

Again, you can keep trying to tell us that a 4 gen multi-role stands a snowballs chance in hell against a 5 th gen air-superiority fighter... Even after you admitted it was an "unfair fight"

Facts are simple

F22 detects first (it does not even have to radiate, it can passivly detect the Su30s who will be burning the sky desperate to detect it)

F22 decides to engage or deny combat (befor the su30 even knows there are f22s in the area)

The engagement will happen in a time, place and conditions of the F22's choosing.

Can your infa red see above your su30? At 90 degree angles? No? Ok - well guess where the f22s are coming from

Come now, this is a ludicrous argument - everyone knows that if you want to talk about a worthy adversary for the f22 you are gunna be talking about the su-27 and not the "sad goose" (su-30)

agaugust:
Can you prove the bolded claim ?
.

Can you prove anything you have said?

patches689:
LOL


These guys arguing about F15's??


BRAH - what is this? 1998?

The F-22 doesn't evil look real! It looks like a Fighter straight out of a comic book. I mean, look at that jet in the second photo....... "Should that thing even be legal?"!


F-22 vs SU-30SM isn't actually a fair fight. Not like the U.S fights fair anyway, or has ever fought fair.


A more reasonable combat would be the SU-30SM against F/A-18 Super Hornets.

EVarn:
@agaugust,the AIM-54(retired) has a range of about 190-200km,the new variant AIM-120D also has a range of about 180-200km.So why would you call K-100{also with about 200km range,though it could be significantly lesser} superior to any rival on earth"?

The Meteor will be best BVRAAM next year.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-best-air-to-air-missile-in-the-world-is-in-sweden-339b2cb6afa8

Henry120:
The F-22 doesn't evil look real! It looks like a Fighter straight out of a comic book. I mean, look at that jet in the second photo....... "Should that thing even be legal?"!


F-22 vs SU-30SM isn't actually a fair fight. Not like the U.S fights fair anyway, or has ever fought fair.


A more reasonable combat would be the SU-30SM against F/A-18 Super Hornets.

I guess we will have to wait until 2018 for the arrival of the PAC T-50.

Not much separate the SU-35 and F-22 also so I guess everything will boil down to systems, training and luck.

Anyway the F-22 is more over hyped like 90% of american hardware, it couldn't even outclass the Rafale at Red Flag.