₦airaland Forum

baminasri:
Right now, I find it very hard to call myself a Nigerian. What is the point of pledging loyalty to a country that cares not for the HND graduates?

As an HND holder, I graduated with distinction (Top of my class)from the top polytechnic in Nigeria. With high hopes, I applied for the ongoing shell graduate recruitment. The recruitment process involves an online registration and series of online aptitude tests prior to oral interview. What broke my heart during the registration was when I saw the column fo where to indicate your class of degree. First option was first class. Second was second class upper. Third was second class lower and the fourth was third class/HND.
This means that irrespective of your grade in the polytechnic, shell sees you as a third class graduate.
Well, I have moved on. Better things ahead. My advice to HND holders is to embrace entrepreneurship. That way, we can gain respect in the society. And for the country called Nigeria that have refused to stop this BSc/HND dichtonomy, [size=40pt]what[/size] out for HND holders who will shape the economy soon!!!

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

Arogba:
Bros, no thanks for all the trash you just spewed regarding the GPA system. The polytechnic system is far more difficult than the university system as presently constituted.
I recently did a credential evaluation on www.wes.com with my HND and guess what , my certificate was equivalent to a US and Canadian postgraduate certificate based on the number of credit units which was more than 120 units required to obtain a university degree in North America. The most you can get your Nigerian degree is a degree equivalent. Keep fooling yourself with all the Nigerian certificate mentality.
It's unfortunate that the the discrimination is real, but if you know your onions you won't bother about the dichotomy.

Baboo13:
Who else wasted their time on the Shell application website?

ExInferis:
How dare they?!

we 3rd class graduates resent this insult.

HND is the equivalent of university Let-My-People-Go (Pass) and not 3rd class. 3rd class is not very much different from second class lower.

in every competition there's only 1st, 2nd and 3rd. There's no such thing as 2nd up and 2nd low.

cheeketo:
that issue spoiled my whole day, i started the application today, and the process has been going on well until i get a regret message after i filled in my class, which is not available, so i picked the HND option. its so painful, cos i wasted my whole morning, wouldn't have bothered if i was told HND shouldn't apply.

Arogba:
Bros, no thanks for all the trash you just spewed regarding the GPA system. The polytechnic system is far more difficult than the university system as presently constituted.
I recently did a credential evaluation on www.wes.com with my HND and guess what , my certificate was equivalent to a US and Canadian postgraduate certificate based on the number of credit units which was more than 120 units required to obtain a university degree in North America. The most you can get your Nigerian degree is a degree equivalent. Keep fooling yourself with all the Nigerian certificate mentality.
It's unfortunate that the the discrimination is real, but if you know your onions you won't bother about the dichotomy.

Progress2468:
My broda pls do u know if they are accepting 2.2 in this current recruitment ?

Emasel:
Why would Shell do this?

There are some smart HND graduates, I've met a few.

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

ogawisdom:
More than70 percent of ur lecturers r mere bsc holders n they can become chief lecturers with dt while more than 70 percent r PhD holders for unis. What does dt tell u. D best hands r in the university to produce d best graduates

martowskin1:
u are finished.......watch not what......I wonder who asked u to apply for poly.......or u couldn't meet up with the uni requirements

ehijayltd:
And are you sure the present day Nigerian university could produce your so called BEST GRADUATE?
It is sad that the country got to this state by ppl like you.

Senorita123:
Pele.... Be consoling urself

bhmw:
I am an HND graduate in mechanical engineering. I got my first job with Access Bank PLC as a contract staff...had to resign because of the policy that states that a contract staff is not entitle to promotion and other benefits. The company is theirs' and they can do whatsoever they like with it...they can bring in any kind of policy. Making it in life is not based on the paper we called the certicate, it is from within. I know some of my readers can mention a host of people who aren't graduates but are employers of graduates. Our own Aliko Dangote only got a diploma from an institution in Cairo (Egypt), don't know if he has added to his certificates. If truely you are better than some graduates in some universities, then prove it. I graduated from Lagos State Polytechnic and I have slept in Unilag to take some students in a maths course. Being good is not by school but an individual ability. I left Access Bank in the year 2010 and my immediate boss does not want me to...but my mind was made up. She does not have the power to change the policy as she too was employee. I said to myself, if truely i am better than what i was offered, i need to prove it. After resigning, I wrote different aptitude tests in some oil companies(Saipem, NLNG, Cheveron, NNPC...I travelled to Abuja (NNPC Towers) for and interview in NNPC in 2010. Both the job and the transport fare did not get to me. I still believed that I will be great...at a point, I stopped searching for a job. I started searching for what I can do to make the world a better place. What can I do better than other? I have heard that when you offer value, people will offer you money. I began to read stories of people like Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Aliko Dangote, Mike Adenuga, Steve Jobs(late) and others. Do you know what made them become renowned? Ability to think for others (solving people's problem). I prayed to God to give what to do...He answered me indeed and gave me what to do. Today, I have published a unique book and designed a mathematics board game(not in the market yet)...I have a host of other products and unique services in mind. I need just 4 people who will be willing to team up with me as co-owners of this great organization about to be birthed. Interested person should be knowledgeable in maths (our policy not discrimination, each organization has one) and be a good speaker. Interested person(s) should whatsapp me on 08037686908. If the environment is not favourable, then create one. Don't let people judge you by your cerificate but by what you can offer...be creative and think entrepreneur.

klassd:
Nice comment, I school in a federal university of technology awarding B.Tech....those with HND who come to do PGD are taught 300L courses so you can imagine someone with HND doing 300L course work what do you think they'll be taught in M.sc? 400L and 500L course work.

baba11:
Had it been that i was not advise against obtaining hnd when i was already in ND 1 second semester, I would definitely have been in his shoes.

I give thanks to God oooooooooo

baminasri:
Right now, I find it very hard to call myself a Nigerian. What is the point of pledging loyalty to a country that cares not for the HND graduates?

As an HND holder, I graduated with distinction (Top of my class)from the top polytechnic in Nigeria. With high hopes, I applied for the ongoing shell graduate recruitment. The recruitment process involves an online registration and series of online aptitude tests prior to oral interview. What broke my heart during the registration was when I saw the column fo where to indicate your class of degree. First option was first class. Second was second class upper. Third was second class lower and the fourth was third class/HND.
This means that irrespective of your grade in the polytechnic, shell sees you as a third class graduate.
Well, I have moved on. Better things ahead. My advice to HND holders is to embrace entrepreneurship. That way, we can gain respect in the society. And for the country called Nigeria that have refused to stop this BSc/HND dichtonomy, what out for HND holders who will shape the economy soon!!!

LuckyLadolce:
Sincerely, you made some really good points! Bt i will like to draw your attention to one of your points which is "our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities". Brother, it is true. But I've you tried finding out about how polytechincs grade their scores i.e 70=A, 60-B? For instance, in my GF's school (university), 70=A while in my school (polytechnic), 75=A. Whats ur say about this?

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

ogawisdom:
Stop licking ur wound its only very poor STDs dt go to polytechnics bc they cant pass jamb and waec n have failed severally n ran to poly due to frustration

Hnd is useless jst lik third class degree n dts wat shell is telling u all.

Go and apply for de and start all over in uni sorry

laoma15:
Don't be discouraged my friend. In 1993, I wrote both UME Jamb and Poly Jamb. UME Jamb offered me admission in Bsc in Geography at University of Ibadan while Poly Jamb offered me Accounting at Federal Polytechnic Bida. I decided to choice Accounting and completed my HND in Accounting.

I passed all my ICAN papers on first attempt basis. I have worked in Oil Company and the two top Telecom companies. Today, I have a viable Consulting Firm and employs both HND and Bsc holders.

Don't let Certificate determine your life. Your destiny is in your hand. Keep pressing forward and believe in yourself.

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy, Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

fratermathy:
This is getting too old and stale.

While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates and denying them of promotions, appointments and a chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other appellations are the recognised standard for academic, theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers. The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be called upon and relied on for their technical expertise. University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and same.

On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a 4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in HND programmes are far lower, both individually and cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian Polytechnics!

The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary" or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre, alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating" process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics. Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA system and courses should be well developed, standard and carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological pedagogical system.

Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it, nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed, ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers' decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have always done.

#MyTake
Mr. Baminasri, I am sorry about your plight! Your best is yet to come. I'd advise you to get a PGD and possibly a Masters though.


CC:
Freemanan, Freeemanan, Goodboiy,



Good writeup bro, but I equally disagree with some of your points(differentiating points) in respective of how sweet u made it look like with your big oyinbo's......lol

But honestly speaking have promised myself not to comments or say anything relating to the dichotomy and stigmatization between the 2 certificates....

I went to a polytechnic and graduated untop of my class some years back and I later decided to go back to the university after my Nysc to prevent and avoid being a subject of criticism of the egocentric BSC graduates... I have tested the 2 higher institution and I can easily points out the weak points of both.

Whetter u believe it or not, Universities are only enjoying probably the past glory of the hard worked forefathers......if I want to grade the new generation of university lecturers and curriculum u claimed to be well equipped,..... Oga, na sorry case...

I have particularly corrected professors guffing in classroom many times, professor get confused in class and their counterpart doctors fumbling in class........Although nobody is an island of knowledge, if yes,then they shouldn't make university graduate one.
when I got admitted, the so called university undergraduate respect me a lot and even till now (thanks to God), because they know what God as down in my life by attending polytechnic and they yell for the knowledge they cannot acquire from the google downloaded crammed materials which they eventually forget after exams because I noticed professors want a replicate of what they gave u......
u also claimed they have facilities, I know u meant outdated and scrap facilities of the oldies...
(I can see how the theories we lent in the university have been put to practice, u can see how we are designing aeroplanes and the likes)

I wouldn't talk about polytechnic feebles /advantages, since all have the believe that polytechnics are useless and have nothing to offer technically nor practically...

I will only advice the polytechnic graduate to get a DE form like i did and go and do what they do in the university to safe yourself from any dichotomy and embarrassment from Nigeria's university graduate.....

Discrimination is part of this word and safe yourself from one..........

we have
tribalism
racism
sexism
and the likes......

save yourself from one



Scholes0, LordAdam; What do you think?

ogawisdom:
This is d best advice for ppl in polys, finish nd and move to uni

Senorita123:
I did...2.2 is not allowed. N I made 3.38....mtchew. But I hope in God for a better opportunity